KAT To The Knicks Part 2

[sol537]

Let's just not **** around and lose our last semblances of rim protection/drop coverage and I'm fine to wait and see optimistically.

The Question is...... what will the Clippers do.....

I'm secretly hoping we could get Zubac from the Clipps if they implode...

[Capn'O]

Let's just not **** around and lose our last semblances of rim protection/drop coverage and I'm fine to wait and see optimistically.

The Question is...... what will the Clippers do.....

I'm secretly hoping we could get Zubac from the Clipps if they implode...

He's talking about my BAF Clippers but Zubacca Shakur was an OG BAF Clipper who I would welcome to the Knicks with open arms if we are hell bent on moving Robinson.

[E-Balla]

insults and hyperbole expose you.

I'm not going any-fuqin-where, kid.

Expose me? **** we talking about BASKETBALL.

TF you think you exposing? That I like talking ****? That's not new I been around a decade atp.

Get a grip my boy. Mind you you're mad I said we shouldn't have to delude ourselves that the team is good to tune in especially when we always suck but look at you, emotional.

the fact that you can't debate your "opinion" without insults "exposes" who we're dealing with.

it takes more than a keyboard kid to stir my emotions. good luck with all that, I'm done wasting my time on you.

This **** mad as **** lmfaoooo.

[SelbyCobra]

All signs point to Randle leaving Minny in free agency after one season in Minny (who knows, maybe they win it all?). Minny holds on to DDV, NAW and Reid after that and keeps themselves under the second apron, while still being a solid team led by Ant.

Randle probably signs in CHA, DET or WAS for 4/200 or something.

I think all signs point to Minnesota trading Randle at the deadline so they get some assets back before they let him go in free agency.

[Capn'O]

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=W09F6FrMDfp5_y1gKYgF1g

Sorry, that's just silly considering we moved Randle. But he does help a bit in that regard.

[god shammgod]

It is and it isn't. It is in the sense he's obviously paid a ton. But it isn't in the sense he's locked up. Randle isn't and the new CBA is unforgiving to in the apron that have upcoming FA unless you are willing to pay them like a cornerstone piece. Randle is turning 30 this year. He is going to opt out and ask for a 4 year contract next year at a pretty high price (his production would warrant that). Randle new contract will start at 31...KAT contract finishes potentially when he's 31.

KAT is only a calendar year younger than Randle and his extension kicks in now. That's only a 2 year gap. And Randle is looking for that big pay day but he's not getting much better than Pascal's 4/189. Maybe 200/4 but honestly his reputation (due to the lolknicks effect) is low. I don't think he makes that.

And we dont' have to move Mitch...moving mitch would more signal they just don't buy he will ever be a healthy contributor rather then them needing to move him for money purposes right now.

Without moving Mitch there's no way we fill out the roster under the second apron. Unless we go with 12 players which I've never seen before he's getting moved.

Randle has his own issues and moving him at a later date for production is certainly not as easier as you seem to make it...Randle is a very challenging fitting player (talent is there but there are concerns in other areas). It wouldn't even surprise me if he isn't in Minny for terrible long.

I think Minny lets him go. This move wasn't "we want Randle" it was "please take this terrible contract off our hands so we can resign NAW and Naz".

I still contend after Randle eventually signs his new deal KAT will be a more attractive piece in a future trade especially as the cap continues to rise. He is just a more seamless fit with the modern NBA. He has his quirks but I think most FO don't see KAT as a lose cannon as much as Randle. So I just feel in the future his contract will be more easier to move especially if he's player well here rather than Randles new extension contract.

Minny made there bed with the Gobert trade...if they tried to re-trade him there is zero chance they would re-coup even close to the draft equity they lost. So that made KAT's contract the odd man out now they need to pay NAW and Naz.

I think the position they were in with Ant Edwards contract kicking in along with McDaniels and still having Gobert...you got to make choices unless you are going to pay obscene tax which Minny clearly wasn't willing to do.

start making a list of all the players you would give 55 mill a year to before kat and then you'll see how all the rest of the gm's in the league feel about his contract

[Capn'O]

...

You seem like you need a situation where you can be in control of the outcome.

No sign of Smash lately. IJS.

[sol537]

All signs point to Randle leaving Minny in free agency after one season in Minny (who knows, maybe they win it all?). Minny holds on to DDV, NAW and Reid after that and keeps themselves under the second apron, while still being a solid team led by Ant.

Randle probably signs in CHA, DET or WAS for 4/200 or something.

I think all signs point to Minnesota trading Randle at the deadline so they get some assets back before they let him go in free agency.

Maybe... if they could find a team willing to send them expiring contracts and at least one or more picks... a team that Randle would also be willing to extend with at a price he wants. *And* Minny would have to feel that losing Randle wouldn't heavily impact their '25 finals run too negatively... So they could very well keep him... who knows.

[Jonathan2347]

Many like to be miserable for no reason. Randle was going to walk at the end of the year. He was not a good fit on the offense side of the ball.

Kat is clearly the better offensive player and gives us a true stretch 5 and is still in his prime and locked in for 4 years. It was the best value for value we can get and didn't lose overall talent.

Losing Donte sucks but being with Randle sucks more. Towns will be fine. We complete this roster by getting Kessler and that's it we can compete with anyone

Brunson
Bridges
OG
Towns
Kessler

That's a unbeatable team !!!

Sent from my SM-S928U1 using RealGM mobile app

[F N 11]

Read on Twitter

?s=46

[NoDopeOnSundays]

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=W09F6FrMDfp5_y1gKYgF1g

Sorry, that's just silly considering we moved Randle. But he does help a bit in that regard.

Not really, before Randle got hurt IHart was averaging 1.9apg, after he got hurt IHart averaged 3.3apg for the regular season and 3.5apg for the playoffs. He was a passing hub which is why the Thunder threw the bag at him, because even if he's not shooting the three which I think he will do with them, he still has to be accounted for from the top of the key for passing or getting off that little floater.

I think the playoffs made the Knicks FO rethink the team, having Hart/OG playing together and their cutting/movement would be amplified if you have a C that can pass a bit and shoot ontop of it.

[god shammgod]

i love guys who defend this trade and then add guys who currently aren't on our team to show how it'll work lol

[NoDopeOnSundays]

i love guys

[Context]

new league media rights deal and new CBA.

We’ll now routinely see role players making well north of $30 m’s.

Excellent point I forgot about...The salary cap will increase and we will be in better financial shape than most teams...

Salary cap goes up 10% every year KAT contract only increase by 8% we are in a good position

our core guys including Mitch this year:
25/26 season: $189
26/27:$187
27/28: $109-this is the year Kat can opt out and we can work out a team friendly contract...

now that 2010 reminded me of the media money- I really love our financial position now!

[E-Balla]

I still contend after Randle eventually signs his new deal KAT will be a more attractive piece in a future trade especially as the cap continues to rise. He is just a more seamless fit with the modern NBA. He has his quirks but I think most FO don't see KAT as a lose cannon as much as Randle. So I just feel in the future his contract will be more easier to move especially if he's player well here rather than Randles new extension contract.

Minny made there bed with the Gobert trade...if they tried to re-trade him there is zero chance they would re-coup even close to the draft equity they lost. So that made KAT's contract the odd man out now they need to pay NAW and Naz.

I think the position they were in with Ant Edwards contract kicking in along with McDaniels and still having Gobert...you got to make choices unless you are going to pay obscene tax which Minny clearly wasn't willing to do.

You're still comparing KAT to Randle. If that's the standard for this deal then sure I guess. To me the standard for this deal is did you give up positive assets for a positive asset. We gave up positive assets for a player the Wolves couldn't find any other suitors for because his contract is awful.

Minny didn't make **** with the Gobert trade, KAT is on the way out because for all the "modern NBA" talk Gobert fits the modern NBA way more. KAT is a tweener on defense, he's never won **** as the best player on a team and he's making $56 million a year. Nobody wants to give a player that's not even top 30 Steph, Embiid, and Jokic money with the current CBA and the 2nd apron. Besides his old agent apparently.

And for the second bold part I think Minny doesn't mind paying the tax. They mind paying the tax for a guy that's significantly less productive than NAW, Naz, and Donte combined. KAT the concept and KAT the player ain't the same. We've seen Minny without him for large parts of the last two seasons and last year they went 14-6 without him (a higher win percentage than with him), 2023 they went 15-14 with him and 27-26 without him (about even), and looking at his on off in the playoffs the last two years they've played +11.4 points per 100 better with him on the bench. Last year in the regular season they were +0.2 points per 100 better with him on the bench. The juice just isn't worth the squeeze.

Naz is probably looking to get about 4/100 and he averaged 18/7/2 as a starter with similar percentages to KAT and slightly better defense IMO. He's just not that much better than guys that can be grabbed at half his cost, and it's not hard to find shooting PFs that can't protect the rim (which is what he is in Minny) so they cut bait.

[NiceLikeChrist]

Blows my mind that people are still ignoring the fact that we very likely take the celtics 6 or 7 if we just have OG out there. Bottom line is that we traded away all our depth and picks for pieces we didn't really NEED. All we NEEDED was a center replacement for iHart after he left us for OKC and a secondary PG to facilitate things while Brunson rests

We didn't NEED mikal and we definitely didn't NEED kat. We were already a top 3 team in the league as is.

[iLLmatic860]

All signs point to Randle leaving Minny in free agency after one season in Minny (who knows, maybe they win it all?). Minny holds on to DDV, NAW and Reid after that and keeps themselves under the second apron, while still being a solid team led by Ant.

Randle probably signs in CHA, DET or WAS for 4/200 or something.

I think all signs point to Minnesota trading Randle at the deadline so they get some assets back before they let him go in free agency.

I think it all depends on how Ant feels. Its his team and on social media he was trying to link up with Randle so idk maybe it all depends

[Capn'O]

...

You seem like you need a situation where you can be in control of the outcome.

No sign of Smash lately. IJS.

He's thinking about it. If he weren't I'd already be on blast.

I'm serious though - SIM GMs have been making moves with no regard for the SIM for a year now without anyone to rip them a new butthole. It's dire times.

[KnixinSix]

*Long post alert*

Spoiler:

I'm trying to remain optimistic about this trade. I was personally ready to move on from Randle and Mitch as I didn't want to continue to depend on them to step up or be available in the playoffs and I felt their value would decline over time. Moving on from either one of them would not have been a big deal for me but going all in on KAT was not the move I wanted to make. He is just as unpredictable as Mitch and Randle in my mind. Losing DDV is upsetting and unexpected but I did see a bit of an overlap between DDV and Deuce. One of them was going to be squeezed for playing time.

I understand the organization was dealt a tough hand this off-season. iHart walked. Mitch will have a long recovery. Randle's contract situation was still up in the air. The new CBA is very restrictive but it reminds me of last January in some ways. They got punched in the face with injuries last season and instead of taking a step back and accepting that the season was lost they made the Detroit trade to continue to try to compete.

Mitch, Randle and OG were out but people still held onto the hope of their return and competing for a championship and ignored OG and Mitch being extremely injury prone and Randle's entire game being based around him ramming his shoulder into opposing player's chests. Instead of taking a step back they added to questionable fits in Bogey and Burks. I may have understood the moves if I had not just seen Thibs fail with similar level players in Walker and Fournier before but we convinced ourselves it would be different this time.

In the end all 3 of Mitch, Randle and OG were re-injured and the Detroit additions failed. The Knicks scratched and clawed their way to the 2nd seed but fell short in the 2nd round. They rushed Mitch back just for him to be out until possibly 2025 now killing what little value he may have had left. They held off on Randle's surgery which I can understand in some ways but seemed like it would have a low probability of success with his style of play. 100% healthy Mitch and Randle probably have more trade value than they do rehabbing.

Instead of flipping Fournier's expiring contract and possibly picking up an asset from a team looking to clear and extra year of salary they added value to his contract for two ageing players that did not fit with the team. Instead of pausing and taking a step back this for a moment this year we are choosing to ignore how Thibs and KAT were not a good match before. We are pretending that they are different people at their cores now when they still have the same question marks surrounding them throughout their careers.

I was just watching parts of the Atlanta series since people were saying it was not Randle's fault. I saw Reggie Bullock getting cooked on an island by Trae Young with Thibs refusing to trap the same way OG was getting cooked on an island by Maxey with Thibs refusing to trap again. Thibs is who he is and KAT is who he is until they show me something different. KAT struggled with Thibs defensively before and I don't think an injury prone Mitch solves that problem.

Offensively we are fantasizing about all the spacing and how much better things will look as if Thibs is some incredible offensive mind. As if the offense has not always been somebody pounding the air out of the ball with everyone else just standing around. Brunson will have a ton of space to do his thing but a 6'1-6'2 guard is not some unstoppable force no matter how much we talk crap about anyone who disagrees.

Steph had a ton of success in the league as a small guard but their championship offense led by him is the complete opposite of Thibs' offense. Maybe this is the year Thibs finally unlocks his massive playbook he has created from all the hours studying film but he has not done it up until this point no matter who he had on the roster. Maybe the new personnel changes things but I expect to see different players forced to iso no matter if they are qualified to do it no matter what. I expect to see Brunson to have a ton of success doing it while others may struggle.

They have now built a roster with questionable depth and multiple injury prone players. Guys like Payne, Precious and (Morris) were all out of the rotation at the start of the postseason which is a pretty clear indicator that their coaches did not believe they could contribute to winning at that time. Of their top 7 players 3 of them are huge injury risks. It's an incredibly fragile team with weak depth imo.

The team was in a tough spot but they did not have to make this move. They could have accepted some losses to start the season. That's basically what happened with the roster last year with the hole at big wing/back up 4. It's not like having a higher seed has ever led Thibs anywhere in the end anyway. They could have waited for more options to become available to fill the center hole between Dec. 15th and the trade deadline. I don't think KAT had a huge market. This deal could have been available later if they truly wanted to make it happen. They could have attempted to make a smaller move.

I will continue to remain hopeful as a fan and I am truly excited to see how the additions fit with the team but I can't hide my concern that the team gave up all of its assets for a team that may not work out together whether it is because of poor health or poor fit. Maybe Mitch comes back healthy and is a perfect fit next to KAT. Maybe they flip Mitch or someone else for the perfect fit. Maybe Kolek steps up and adds a new dynamic to the team's offense. Maybe Mikal reaches a new level. Maybe if things don't work out they can still find a way to pivot. I don't know.

Credit to the front office for not just sitting on their hands and being willing to make adjustments but this was too big of a gamble for me. The team seemed like it was being very responsible for the most part with the contracts they were handing out and the chemistry they were building but now I too am wondering if Leon Rose's connections won over someone like Brock Aller's calculations.

Appreciate your thoughts on the matter. Almost no trade is without risk. This is a pretty big shift but the best teams are versatile. The only thing we are missing now technically is a true 6'10 or more rim protector less injury prone than Mitch. A guy like Trey OTOH would add a more gifted offensive forward into the mix with a different skill set than Hart.

[Wildcat]

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=W09F6FrMDfp5_y1gKYgF1g

I feel like this is Kool-Aid talk, no? KAT's A/TO ratio isn't great. Calling him equally capable seems like an overreach.