Karl-Anthony Towns Traded to New York (Official Discussion Thread)

[KGdaBom]

After reading it all I'd prefer we didn't make the deal.

What would have been your alternative? We had two realistic options:

1. ship the 6th highest paid player in the league, yet 3rd most important player on our roster to another team. Options would be very limited and I genuinely believe NY was the only feasible deal on the table this summer.

2. Gut the team completely in order to maintain the core of KAT, Gobert and Ant who take up 100% of our cap space.

I think I'd rather have more flexibility and players like NAZ, McD, DDV and NAW surrounding Gobert and Ant than the three high earners and a bunch of fillers.

That's your opinion and you have your right to it, but we could have ran it back this year with a great shot at a title. I think our shot at a title now is less than it was before the trade.

[shrink]

I know as Naz fans, we just see this trade as a chance to find the money to keep Naz next year. However, national sources are talking about Randle re-signing, or signing an extension.

Let me get the CBA stuff out of the way first. Randle is extension-eligible right now, until the end of the season, and the Wolves have little reason to make an extension offer until they see how he plays (in his contract year, potentially). He would have to waive his $30.9 mil player option for next year (which is likely regardless), and the Wolves could add up to three years for $120
$40 about a year isn’t excessive. With DiVincenzo, the pair would make about $49 mil, vs the $53 scheduled for KAT.

In general, having good players under team-control is good for a team. Even if a team is overwhelmed with luxury taxes, a good player on a tradeable deal has value in trades and as injury protection, whether that’s Randle, Naz or NAW. Teams should seek to avoid players leaving in free agency for nothing. We can also follow this route with Randle in a sign-and-trade, which would give us more potential trade partners for any of those three.

[Klomp]

The more I hear about the trade, the more I personally see no way to see that this can be classified as a "salary dump".

The Knicks were repeatedly sending offers all offseason, that were responded to each time with a hard no. Things only changed once DiVincenzo was added into the discussion in the last week after the Robinson injury update (their original offers were Randle and Robinson). After that, it still didn't become a yes until the pick was added.

"(Towns) was their guy. This was their target. It was just going to be about if they were going to match Minnesota's asking price."
"DiVincenzo was the critical piece"

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[KGdaBom]

I mean we didn’t trade Towns just for Donte Divecenzo, Randle matters, it’s both.

It's primarily for DDV. Randle was to match salaries.

I don’t agree with that. I don’t think they make the trade for a non-productive contract. Randle is going to be our starting PF.

I said primarily for DDV. Secondarily for Randle. I think Randle will be our starting PF, but Naz could be. When Randle's contract expires I believe we will let him walk.

[KGdaBom]

So the Knicks are paying the $4.1 million to Randle, but who's salary cap is that 4.1 million counting against?

If the Knicks pay the trade kicker, they could only send us a cash payment. Randle goes onto our books with the additional $4.1 mil, and we pay additional luxury tax on it at the end of the season.

I'm liking the trade less. We pretty much got no cap relief then.

[Klomp]

I know as Naz fans, we just see this trade as a chance to find the money to keep Naz next year. However, national sources are talking about Randle re-signing, or signing an extension.

Let me get the CBA stuff out of the way first. Randle is extension-eligible right now, until the end of the season, and the Wolves have little reason to make an extension offer until they see how he plays (in his contract year, potentially). He would have to waive his $30.9 mil player option for next year (which is likely regardless), and the Wolves could add up to three years for $120
$40 about a year isn’t excessive. With DiVincenzo, the pair would make about $49 mil, vs the $53 scheduled for KAT.

In general, having good players under team-control is good for a team. Even if a team is overwhelmed with luxury taxes, a good player on a tradeable deal has value in trades and as injury protection, whether that’s Randle, Naz or NAW. Teams should seek to avoid players leaving in free agency for nothing. We can also follow this route with Randle in a sign-and-trade, which would give us more potential trade partners for any of those three.

I think we could see both still on the team past this season. I would put Naz as more likely (purely because he's cheaper), but I can see Julius signing here longterm. $40 million AAV is the absolute height of what I think Randle could sign for. It's more likely somewhere between $25-35 million. Also remember, we have the possibility of a Gobert restructure/extension. I think it's very realistic that we could see Gobert, Randle, Naz and DiVincenzo under contract for the same amount of money in 2025-26 as Towns and Gobert could have been (under Gobert's option).

[KGdaBom]

Yep Kat’s contract is toxic , he’s not close to a top ten player but is paid like one.

With the Wolves it is probably toxic to be paying him $49.2M, $53.1M, $57.1M, and $61.0M when Gobert plays Towns best position on the court. Towns contract wouldn't be toxic if we didn't have so much also committed to Ant, Gobert, McDaniels, etc. It sucks that KAT was named All-NBA third team in 2022 to make him eligible for a Supermax. We likely would not have needed to trade him if he was making $41M, $44.3M, $47.6M, and $50.8M on a max deal.

Great point.

[KGdaBom]

Yep Kat’s contract is toxic , he’s not close to a top ten player but is paid like one.

With the Wolves it is probably toxic to be paying him $49.2M, $53.1M, $57.1M, and $61.0M when Gobert plays Towns best position on the court. Towns contract wouldn't be toxic if we didn't have so much also committed to Ant, Gobert, McDaniels, etc. It sucks that KAT was named All-NBA third team in 2022 to make him eligible for a Supermax. We likely would not have needed to trade him if he was making $41M, $44.3M, $47.6M, and $50.8M on a max deal.

I think the point you and shrink are missing about his contract is you cant pay anyone that much money who isn't a winner. Pussy Kat isn't a winner and doesn't make winning plays regardless of the money he makes. Ever contract no matter how big or small you want guys who get better, love to win and show up when it counts.

The money might of played a roll in this trade but I think the fact PJ F'in Washington out played Karl "Pussy Kat" Towns in the Western Conference Finals. Stop giving this guy a pass cause he was nice and wanted to stay here. His playoff/big game numbers are were the men sperate themselves from the boys and Towns plays like a boy in those games making a mans salary.

Get lost with your disgusting comment. KAT has been a great player for us and he isn't a pussy you sicko. I'd like you to be alone with him and call him a pussy. See what happens.

[KGdaBom]

I didn’t believe it, but it’s apparently true! Here are the regular season games played in the last 5 seasons.

Towns 250 games
George 263 games
Porzingas 267 games
Embiid 275 games
Anunoby 277 games

For the record, Randle missed a lot of time last year, playing only 46 games. However, he still played 330 games over the last five. You never know if the most recent injury is the one a player never recovers from, but if he can get back to 100%, he has a better recent injury profile than KAT.

Between Randle's rookie season (1 game played) and 2023-24 (46 games played), the most time Randle has missed in the 8 years between came in 2021-22, when he played 72 of 82 games.

2014-15: 1 of 82
2015-16: 81 of 82
2016-17: 74 of 82
2017-18: 82 of 82
2018-19: 73 of 82
2019-20: 64 of 66
2020-21: 71 of 72
2021-22: 72 of 82
2022-23: 77 of 82
2023-24: 46 of 82

I also think your post shrink should be a cautionary tale for Knicks fans. Their starting PF and C now are extremely injury-prone in Anunoby and Towns. And this is a roster with basically zero depth, especially in the frontcourt.

Great info.

[KGdaBom]

I haven't seen anybody post the protections on the Detroit pick yet. Here they are.

As a refresher, the pick is top-13 protected in 2025, top-11 in 2026, top-nine in 2027 and will convert to a second-round pick if not conveyed by then. Until the pick conveys, the Pistons are limited by the NBA's Stepien Rule and barred from trading a future first-rounder.3 days ago

It isn't a fully lottery protected pick any of the years. By the third year it's very possible Detroit could finish outside of the top 9 picks.

[Neeva]

I haven't seen anybody post the protections on the Detroit pick yet. Here they are.

As a refresher, the pick is top-13 protected in 2025, top-11 in 2026, top-nine in 2027 and will convert to a second-round pick if not conveyed by then. Until the pick conveys, the Pistons are limited by the NBA's Stepien Rule and barred from trading a future first-rounder.3 days ago

It isn't a fully lottery protected pick any of the years. By the third year it's very possible Detroit could finish outside of the top 9 picks.

Pistons have been a bottom 12 team for over a decade straight, somethings gotta give.

[KGdaBom]

I haven't seen anybody post the protections on the Detroit pick yet. Here they are.

As a refresher, the pick is top-13 protected in 2025, top-11 in 2026, top-nine in 2027 and will convert to a second-round pick if not conveyed by then. Until the pick conveys, the Pistons are limited by the NBA's Stepien Rule and barred from trading a future first-rounder.3 days ago

It isn't a fully lottery protected pick any of the years. By the third year it's very possible Detroit could finish outside of the top 9 picks.

Pistons have been a bottom 12 team for over a decade straight, somethings gotta give.

I'd be happy with them being exactly a bottom 12 team in 2026 or a bottom 10 team in 2027.

[younggunsmn]

There's a lot of really good info in this article for the cap geeks out there about what the Knicks are up against trying to match salary for KAT and still field a team while staying under the 2nd apron.

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2024/09/towns-trade-will-limit-knicks-flexibility-under-hard-cap.html

Early bird rights, base year compensation, something called the tax variance rule which says that a rookie free agent (but not a 2nd round pick) counts the same as a 2 year vet against the cap and the tax.

[younggunsmn]

Yep Kat’s contract is toxic , he’s not close to a top ten player but is paid like one.

With the Wolves it is probably toxic to be paying him $49.2M, $53.1M, $57.1M, and $61.0M when Gobert plays Towns best position on the court. Towns contract wouldn't be toxic if we didn't have so much also committed to Ant, Gobert, McDaniels, etc. It sucks that KAT was named All-NBA third team in 2022 to make him eligible for a Supermax. We likely would not have needed to trade him if he was making $41M, $44.3M, $47.6M, and $50.8M on a max deal.

Great point.

Honestly given his level of play I would be uneasy paying him at regular max level (41/44/47/51).
You can't give that kind of money to a guy who gets punked by PJ Washington or Nicholas Batum and misses that many games\
Nobody's even mentioned how scary a meniscus injury can be long term for someone that big.

We may all eventually come to the conclusion we dodged a real bullet with that contract, likely sooner than later.

[KGdaBom]

With the Wolves it is probably toxic to be paying him $49.2M, $53.1M, $57.1M, and $61.0M when Gobert plays Towns best position on the court. Towns contract wouldn't be toxic if we didn't have so much also committed to Ant, Gobert, McDaniels, etc. It sucks that KAT was named All-NBA third team in 2022 to make him eligible for a Supermax. We likely would not have needed to trade him if he was making $41M, $44.3M, $47.6M, and $50.8M on a max deal.

Great point.

Honestly given his level of play I would be uneasy paying him at regular max level (41/44/47/51).
You can't give that kind of money to a guy who gets punked by PJ Washington or Nicholas Batum and misses that many games\
Nobody's even mentioned how scary a meniscus injury can be long term for someone that big.

We may all eventually come to the conclusion we dodged a real bullet with that contract, likely sooner than later.

You could be right. I just don't like breaking up the team and destroying the chemistry. I have faith in TC and hope he did the right thing.

[younggunsmn]

Great point.

Honestly given his level of play I would be uneasy paying him at regular max level (41/44/47/51).
You can't give that kind of money to a guy who gets punked by PJ Washington or Nicholas Batum and misses that many games\
Nobody's even mentioned how scary a meniscus injury can be long term for someone that big.

We may all eventually come to the conclusion we dodged a real bullet with that contract, likely sooner than later.

You could be right. I just don't like breaking up the team and destroying the chemistry. I have faith in TC and hope he did the right thing.

What if the trade was about fixing the on court chemistry?
It's a big risk changing things up when you have success, and I get that.

TC strikes me as a forward thinking guy though.
He took a huge risk making the Gobert trade, and this move is no different.

[WolfAddict]

What in the actual f**k happened!?!?!

I was out on a muster for the last couple of days and come home to this!?!?

Haven't read through the thread, but at first glance, I HATE IT

Randle... Really?

[Klomp]

I get that player values seem off. While in a vacuum, you probably think Towns is better than Randle, I'd actually argue that for what Minnesota asks of its PFs, Randle is a better fit. Towns might have an A+ potential in general terms. But in Minnesota's scheme, I think he's only a B value. Meanwhile, Randle may have a B+ potential, but he can give Minnesota B or B- production. On top of that, his contract gives options for a front office in the second apron, while Towns has the 7th-highest salary in the league. On top of that, Minnesota adds DiVincenzo, a player the front office and coaching staff really coveted for years.

[younggunsmn]

I went back and watched full game highlights of the Knicks win over the Wolves in NY from January 2024.

Randle had 39/9 on 24 FGA with 6 turnovers and zero assists.
KAT was invisible for 3 quarters while the Knicks built a huge lead until going off in the 4th.

Divencenzo was very good in that game, passing, defense, making some nice backdoor cuts.

The other interesting matchup was Gobert vs Hartenstein, which we will see a lot of the next couple years.
Gobert held his own but Hartenstein played well and blocked Gobert a couple times.
He's bigger and stronger than i remember from his Clippers days.

Brunson shot 5/23 that game (in no small part because of Jaden McDaniels), but Randle carried them and helped them hold us off.


He's a heck of a fast break player too, both passing and finishing.
That will add something we didn't have with KAT who wasnt much but a trail 3 shooter.

The Knicks are making a bigger chemistry gamble than we are with this trade.
Divencenzo had been playing so well with Randle and Brunson, which was probably a reason they were ok with trading away so much backcourt depth, quickley, Barret, and later Grimes.
They've got a lot of pieces to make fit and are incredibly thin in the backcourt now relying a lot on rookies and journeymen for their depth.
The same place we've been in the past few years.

[Sothron]

This trade reminded me so much of the Cavs traded Ron Harper for Danny Ferry and the team of the 90s never got a chance to take off.

My wife said the same thing. We are both in shock over this idiotic trade. If they had kept KAT for just one more year I honestly feel this team wins a championship. Now it is first round and out with some of the worst, if not the worst, spacing in the NBA.

But losing KAT won't hurt our defense. And the Knicks fans said they're worried because Randle gave them grit.
So our defense might be better with Randle, plus we've got DiV and he can defend well.
At worst i think our defense will be the same as last season, and our offense will definitely be better with DiV!
Even if we assume McDaniels and Reid won't improve (but they probably will improve!) i still think we've got a great chance at finishing #1 in the West.
And we've still got Gobert and Reid to defend Jokic, and we can keep them on the court for the whole time Jokic is on the court!

Um...is this serious? We just traded one of the most efficient offensive players in NBA *history* and you don't think our offense is going to suffer? Wow. Just...wow.

Randle is very inefficient and a broomstick on defense. DD is a backup guard. He is nowhere near the offensive player KAT is.

This was a very, very bad trade for the Wolves. We gave up a franchise player for a one year rental, a backup SG and a fake first round pick that will never convey.