Official Offseason Thread 9.0: The Long Road to October

[pepe1991]

I’m going all in on Suggs this year. 18ppg, 4.4 apg, 3.6rpg, 2.1spg.

This is pretty much stat line of Colin Sexton

[Knightro]

I think AB is going to get heavy playmaking reps in the second unit. Are we pretending Cole was the lead playmaker last season? It was Ingles. AB is taking that role.

He isn’t capable of it.

[Knightro]

I’m going all in on Suggs this year. 18ppg, 4.4 apg, 3.6rpg, 2.1spg.

This is pretty much stat line of Colin Sexton

Collin Sexton on offense with A+ defense is a 35M a year player very easily.

[pepe1991]

Having PG who can't shoot isn't fun. Vast majority of tall nba PGs bust out because they are predictable and don't create pressure on defense required to have good, modern offense.

In link of Celtics play, Black's both "assists" are nothing but horrible passes that Goga/Franz somehow caught without turning it over.
In all his shots he was wide open.
Black also has massive problem of having next to non existing floater nor mid range game.
He shot 40% from 3-10 feet ( floater range) , but only 27% fom mid range.

During entire season, do you know how many 3s Black attemped with more than 0 dribbles? Nine. (9!).
Do you know how many times he menaged to keep dribble alive for at least 3 dribbles and attempt shot? 49. Do you know what was his FG% off them? 32% FG / 29% EFG.

Idea of him being "point guard in nba" is nothing but theory. I once compared him with Evan Turner. You go from college, where you weren't all that dominant ( 3,9 APG, 3 TO) as "point guard" but he never once showcased he has handles, sharpness to cut through defense, reliable ways to put pressure on defense with shooting nor ability to be triple treat off pick&rolls (again, he can't shoot off dribble at all from any distance ) and now people ask you to break down defenders in nba. You can't. You could hardly beat future car dealer/doctor off dribble in amateur league.

This isn't just his problem. Almost all tall PGs bomb in nba because vast majority of them ( MCW; Turner, Livingston, Giddey, Simmons etc) simply can't shoot from different angles. Oh and all of them were good to great defenders ( but GIddey).


If we suck i highly doubt anybody would care if we see him trying and failing and people killing each other how much he "improved" on forums. Problem is, Magic already invested a lot, won 47 games and are expected to make next step. There is no clear starting PG on roter and we invested 6th overall pick in him.

There is also Jett who we invested 11th pick and most forum forgot he exists.

[pepe1991]

I’m going all in on Suggs this year. 18ppg, 4.4 apg, 3.6rpg, 2.1spg.

This is pretty much stat line of Colin Sexton

Collin Sexton on offense with A+ defense is a 35M a year player very easily.

Sexton in 3rd year was 24 ppg player.
Guy always got whole lot of heat for no reason, given that similar skillset gets overhyped often with other players ( Coby White for example )

[Knightro]

This is pretty much stat line of Colin Sexton

Collin Sexton on offense with A+ defense is a 35M a year player very easily.

Sexton in 3rd year was 24 ppg player.
Guy always got whole lot of heat for no reason, given that similar skillset gets overhyped often with other players ( Coby White for example )

I do think Sexton is a terrible defensive player and he put up a lot of his numbers on bad teams which certainly impacted the perception of him.

But I think he’s a fantastic scorer and somebody who absolutely at this point could help out a good team in the right role for his skill set.

[eyriq]

I think AB is going to get heavy playmaking reps in the second unit. Are we pretending Cole was the lead playmaker last season? It was Ingles. AB is taking that role.

He isn’t capable of it.

*that's bait*

[VFX]

I’m going all in on Suggs this year. 18ppg, 4.4 apg, 3.6rpg, 2.1spg.

This is pretty much stat line of Colin Sexton

You can’t help yourself with these quips.. like they mean something.

[Knightro]

I think AB is going to get heavy playmaking reps in the second unit. Are we pretending Cole was the lead playmaker last season? It was Ingles. AB is taking that role.

He isn’t capable of it.

*that's bait*

It’s really not.

If the Magic put the basketball in Anthony Black hands and say “go be the point guard” and lean on him to dribble the ball up, initiate the offensive sets and create quality shot opportunities for himself and others, he will struggle mightily in that role.

I think he would struggle with it so badly that it would negatively impact the team in a way that they can’t afford to have right now with the expectation levels where they are.

If this was a rebuilding club and nothing mattered? Then yeah absolutely you put him on the ball and you’ll let him work through his struggles knowing it’s gonna take a while for him to figure it out.

The Magic want to earn home court in the first round and they want to make a deep playoff run. They can’t have a guy playing 20 MPG drowning in a role he is simply not suited to play right now.

[eyriq]

He isn’t capable of it.

*that's bait*

It’s really not.

If the Magic put the basketball in Anthony Black hands and say “go be the point guard” and lean on him to dribble the ball up, initiate the offensive sets and create quality shot opportunities for himself and others, he will struggle mightily in that role.

I think he would struggle with it so badly that it would negatively impact the team in a way that they can’t afford to have right now with the expectation levels where they are.

If this was a rebuilding club and nothing mattered? Then yeah absolutely you put him on the ball and you’ll let him work through his struggles knowing it’s gonna take a while for him to figure it out.

The Magic want to earn home court in the first round and they want to make a deep playoff run. They can’t have a guy playing 20 MPG drowning in a role he is simply not suited to play right now.

They are going to do exactly that and he's going to be fine. He's a PG.

[VFX]

He isn’t capable of it.

*that's bait*

It’s really not.

If the Magic put the basketball in Anthony Black hands and say “go be the point guard” and lean on him to dribble the ball up, initiate the offensive sets and create quality shot opportunities for himself and others, he will struggle mightily in that role.

I think he would struggle with it so badly that it would negatively impact the team in a way that they can’t afford to have right now with the expectation levels where they are.

If this was a rebuilding club and nothing mattered? Then yeah absolutely you put him on the ball and you’ll let him work through his struggles knowing it’s gonna take a while for him to figure it out.

The Magic want to earn home court in the first round and they want to make a deep playoff run. They can’t have a guy playing 20 MPG drowning in a role he is simply not suited to play right now.

I agree with this for the most part.

However, the alternative is forgoing a creator in the back court entirely (what they are doing now), while expecting playmaking from a starting lineup that also hasn’t shown capable.

[eyriq]

The starting lineup gets their on-ball reps primarily from Franz and Paolo. The bench is exactly where Black can get more on-ball reps. He consistently has said he wants to show his playmaking and the team has literally paved a path for him to get on-ball reps with the second unit by not bringing back Fultz and Ingles.

This is not really that complicated or nuanced.

[Knightro]

*that's bait*

It’s really not.

If the Magic put the basketball in Anthony Black hands and say “go be the point guard” and lean on him to dribble the ball up, initiate the offensive sets and create quality shot opportunities for himself and others, he will struggle mightily in that role.

I think he would struggle with it so badly that it would negatively impact the team in a way that they can’t afford to have right now with the expectation levels where they are.

If this was a rebuilding club and nothing mattered? Then yeah absolutely you put him on the ball and you’ll let him work through his struggles knowing it’s gonna take a while for him to figure it out.

The Magic want to earn home court in the first round and they want to make a deep playoff run. They can’t have a guy playing 20 MPG drowning in a role he is simply not suited to play right now.

They are going to do exactly that and he's going to be fine. He's a PG.

I want you to promise me that you’re not gonna get mad at me when it goes down exactly the way I said, and not at all the way you said

[eyriq]

It’s really not.

If the Magic put the basketball in Anthony Black hands and say “go be the point guard” and lean on him to dribble the ball up, initiate the offensive sets and create quality shot opportunities for himself and others, he will struggle mightily in that role.

I think he would struggle with it so badly that it would negatively impact the team in a way that they can’t afford to have right now with the expectation levels where they are.

If this was a rebuilding club and nothing mattered? Then yeah absolutely you put him on the ball and you’ll let him work through his struggles knowing it’s gonna take a while for him to figure it out.

The Magic want to earn home court in the first round and they want to make a deep playoff run. They can’t have a guy playing 20 MPG drowning in a role he is simply not suited to play right now.

They are going to do exactly that and he's going to be fine. He's a PG.

I want you to promise me that you’re not gonna get mad at me when it goes down exactly the way I said, and not at all the way you said

I will get very mad at you, especially if it turns out you are pulling the strings.

[drsd]

No cat videos, so we get a skunk, goose, duck, and a turkey.


https://www.youtube.com/shorts/RxEPY6kXnZU

[Knightro]

Anthony Black absolutely can/will impact the game positively for the Magic as a defender, as a catch-and-shoot guy, as a cutter and as a guy who can create good shots for others in transition and attacking a hard close out.

But he's not a skilled enough or confident enough ball handler to be a full time point guard in the halfcourt. If that is the route they go, he will have *significant* struggles.

The kind of struggles that the Magic simply can't afford him to have if they're trying to win as many regular season games as they possibly can.

[eyriq]

Anthony Black absolutely can/will impact the game positively for the Magic as a defender, as a catch-and-shoot guy, as a cutter and as a guy who can create good shots for others in transition and attacking a hard close out.

But he's not a skilled enough or confident enough ball handler to be a full time point guard in the halfcourt. If that is the route they go, he will have *significant* struggles.

The kind of struggles that the Magic simply can't afford him to have if they're trying to win as many regular season games as they possibly can.

Cap

[T-Cat]

Read on Twitter

[basketballRob]

Read on Twitter

He sounds a little butt hurt after Isaac blocked him a couple of times last season.

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM mobile app

[VFX]

Having PG who can't shoot isn't fun. Vast majority of tall nba PGs bust out because they are predictable and don't create pressure on defense required to have good, modern offense.

In link of Celtics play, Black's both "assists" are nothing but horrible passes that Goga/Franz somehow caught without turning it over.
In all his shots he was wide open.
Black also has massive problem of having next to non existing floater nor mid range game.
He shot 40% from 3-10 feet ( floater range) , but only 27% fom mid range.

During entire season, do you know how many 3s Black attemped with more than 0 dribbles? Nine. (9!).
Do you know how many times he menaged to keep dribble alive for at least 3 dribbles and attempt shot? 49. Do you know what was his FG% off them? 32% FG / 29% EFG.

Idea of him being "point guard in nba" is nothing but theory. I once compared him with Evan Turner. You go from college, where you weren't all that dominant ( 3,9 APG, 3 TO) as "point guard" but he never once showcased he has handles, sharpness to cut through defense, reliable ways to put pressure on defense with shooting nor ability to be triple treat off pick&rolls (again, he can't shoot off dribble at all from any distance ) and now people ask you to break down defenders in nba. You can't. You could hardly beat future car dealer/doctor off dribble in amateur league.

This isn't just his problem. Almost all tall PGs bomb in nba because vast majority of them ( MCW; Turner, Livingston, Giddey, Simmons etc) simply can't shoot from different angles. Oh and all of them were good to great defenders ( but GIddey).


If we suck i highly doubt anybody would care if we see him trying and failing and people killing each other how much he "improved" on forums. Problem is, Magic already invested a lot, won 47 games and are expected to make next step. There is no clear starting PG on roter and we invested 6th overall pick in him.

There is also Jett who we invested 11th pick and most forum forgot he exists.

I don't necessarily disagree with any of your assessments on AB or tall point guards. BUT here's the situation...

Orlando is going to do this song and dance with guys like Jett and AB until they squeeze all value out of them. Josh Giddey is kinda the perfect example of how a team like OKC is smarter than Orlando with how they utilize their assets.

Josh Giddey starts 80 games for them last season playing 25mpg. They proceed to trade him for a player that fits their objectives now, rather than later. Conversely, Orlando buries their lotto picks into the deep bench, never give them minutes, and just signs / re-signs over them squandering what value they had. How else would teams value your assets if they have little to no data?

The answer some people will have is to throw AB into lesser lineups as a role player off the bench regardless of whether or not it helps him improve his game or improve his value. I don't think it does either of those things. You've kind of lost the plot if your two top lotto picks are fighting for minutes with Caleb Houstan, Markelle Fultz, and Gary Harris.

Where I disagree with you is this assumption that all players fit into neat little boxes that provide no value elsewhere. You and others were wrong about Suggs' upside because you assumed incorrectly that he'd never be a plus shooter after your assessments of his BAD rookie season. Now the cope is that he isn't a great handler/distributor, which you ARE correct, but thats moving the goalposts per usual. So let’s not assume you have some calling card as a seer of player development and upside. AB could be drastically improved. Unfortunately that will be playing next to two guards due to the roster the FO gave Mosely.

That being said, the problem is that Orlando isnt even doing that with these lotto picks. AB and Jett not seeing the floor whatsoever for large portions of last season (or entirely) is not a good sign. We just aren't sure whether that's because they aren't good players or Mosely's directive isn't in line with their development given minutes. The FO is at fault for that decision, or indecision, because at the end of the day you aren't gaining anything with lotto picks cheerleading from the bench. Giving Mosely that option shouldn't have been an option in the first place.