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KAT To The Knicks Part 2

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Re: KAT To The Knicks Part 2 

Post#1921 » by thebuzzardman » Thu Oct 3, 2024 8:51 am

Guano wrote:
SelbyCobra wrote:
Guano wrote:
This is why some of us are a lil skeptical of this move. They just committed to a super max guy entering his prime who was essentially moved for a salary dump, 2nd rounders, and a nice 6th man. I mean divo is nice but that essentially all they're getting in this deal. Maybe they facilitate Randle moving in the offseason or mid-season to recoup some talent. But yeah point stands. KAT's value is low for a reason. He is a flawed big on a massive deal.


All true. He's also insanely efficient offensively and has the potential to fit like a glove on the present team. And that's why, despite all the flaws, they were actively targeting him, in my opinion: they aren't looking for him to be the foundation, they're looking for him to be a piece and a compliment just under the wire.

They're built around Brunson's leadership and production, he's unquestionably their lead dog. After that you already have 3 other starters locked in for years in OG, Mikal, and Hart. They take the team to another level with their production, their attention to defense, and a general camaraderie; the structure and identity of the team is established, the pecking order is set, and the vibes are immaculate. Because of this, adding a guy like Towns as the last piece lets your primary concern be how he augments the already established identity of the team - how his skills play with what you're locked into - and care much less about his flaws since you're not needing him to be a foundational piece or savior of the franchise.

If this was four years ago and they were acquiring KAT to try and turn the franchise around, I'd be more skeptical and likely describe the move as highly risky. But in this situation the baseline expectation is that he simply does what he's already done for years alongside this established core, which carries so much less risk in my view.


I don't think we need to worry about him fitting in the offense. He is an elite offensive talent that is a low volume high efficiency scorer. He is going to do fit in seamlessly. His offense is going to help us win a lot of games.

I do worry about his offensive in the playoffs a lil. Just because he makes some poor decisions at times - such as offensive fouls and continuing to let em fly when they're not going down.

My concern is defense. if he is playing the 5 I don't know if our elite wings can make up for him.

And if the goal is to win a chip I have serious concerns about doing it with a highly paid big who is a poor defender. The only team I can think of who has won like that is the nugs. Maybe if with the elite defensive wings and thibs can mask his deficiencies on that end they can pull it off. I'm just highly skeptical of bigs that are poor defenders.


I think we need to discuss how Brunson's poor defense at the point of attack is not championship material
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Re: KAT To The Knicks Part 2 

Post#1922 » by spree2kawhi » Thu Oct 3, 2024 9:19 am

Jalen Bluntson wrote:29-17 when Randle/OG went down.
28-21 the rest of the way.
7-6 in the playoffs included in that run.

Look at the actual roster that pulled that amazing run off.
Look at the injuries that roster dealt with the ENTIRE TIME.
Compare that roster to this one.
STFU and GTFO if you think we got worse after this summer.

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Re: KAT To The Knicks Part 2 

Post#1923 » by NoStatsGuy » Thu Oct 3, 2024 9:54 am

Wildcat wrote:
NoStatsGuy wrote:watching KAT on club shayshay right now

;ab_channel=ClubShayShay

the guy is winning me over, wont lie.


I don't think anyone is going to say he's a bad guy.

I haven't watched the full video. This was recorded before the trade, right?


its just, that i was thinking hes a cringey little gen z kid in the head. but its not that bad :D

And yes, i think this was recorded before tha trade. but was god to hear some of the stuff he was saying. some reassurance about hes feelings about thibs and the knicks.
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Re: KAT To The Knicks Part 2 

Post#1924 » by Tron Carter » Thu Oct 3, 2024 9:56 am

DaGawd wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:
Read on Twitter

idiotic take by this dumb young man


Read on Twitter
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Re: KAT To The Knicks Part 2 

Post#1925 » by Tron Carter » Thu Oct 3, 2024 10:09 am

TrueWarrior wrote:Idk how some of you have the time or energy to argue all day every day. It’s not even entertaining like it used to be.

Look ppl, our big moves are mostly done. Signed Jalen, then traded our fabled stockpile for Josh, OG, Mikal, and now Karl. This is the squad.

We couldnt get Giannis, Luka, Joel, Jaylen, Shai, Devin, etc (at least yet) so we got the next best things to not waste Jalen’s prime with Julius and RJ. Time to accept it and support these dudes, because even if it’s not perfect they have a legit shot, which isnt something we could say for 30 years.

Honestly I enjoy the team less when I’m here, which is why I didnt post for 3 months. All about agendas. We’re good now, and dont have much trade/draft news to talk about, so some dont know what to do with themselves about that.

I wish all you crazy bastards well though. See you at the parade. Let’s go Knicks. Later.


QFT

I miss when I could argue with knicks fans and not people who are just fans of their opinion or preconceived notions
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Re: KAT To The Knicks Part 2 

Post#1926 » by Reign23 » Thu Oct 3, 2024 10:41 am

Kudos to you guys. repeating your points over and over again in 220 pages is crazy :lol:
(I am still excited af about this trade a week later)
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Re: KAT To The Knicks Part 2 

Post#1927 » by Reign23 » Thu Oct 3, 2024 11:12 am

Im Coming Home wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:The RJ Barbz are still crashing out. That was the best trade of all time in Knicks history. So grateful we got rid of him. If only the Barbz followed him on his way out.

Projection at its finest, the thing you always do so well. You've been crashing out since Sunday after 'taking it well' for 2 days. Give it a rest.

You spend hours on twitter just looking for any random twitter account posting anti-Kat propaganda because you're upset Randle was traded for him. Even though you told everyone Randle would never be traded.

Please get a new hobby broski, or go join Randle on the Wolves board, as no one wants you here anymore, your schtick is old, tired and boring. Try being a normal poster again at least, stop always causing sh*t stirring nonsense, this board was a lot better before trolling was allowed by mods to this degree.
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Re: KAT To The Knicks Part 2 

Post#1928 » by Iron Mantis » Thu Oct 3, 2024 11:19 am

We get to watch Brunson, Mikal, OG, Josh, Deuce and our new 4x All-Star 2x All-NBA Center rock out in preseason action in just 3 more days.

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Re: KAT To The Knicks Part 2 

Post#1929 » by SelbyCobra » Thu Oct 3, 2024 11:48 am

3toheadmelo wrote:
SelbyCobra wrote:I know it's been stated before, but KAT has never played with an alpha that everyone, including himself, knows and accepts as the#1 guy. And for that no doubt #1 guy to be a relatively silent and non abrasive guy like Jalen makes it almost perfect for Karl to just slide into the rotation and do his thing.

I'm hoping a lot of the concern over how KAT fits and impacts the trajectory of the squad will be mitigated by the job requirements of his role here and the immaculate vibes. I think it's a very different role than he's been asked to fill in his first 9 years in the league. VERY different.

Did he not play with ant? Lol


While everyone knows Ant has what it takes, knows he should be that guy, and can see him getting to that place, I don't think he's fully there yet. Not in the way Jalen has established himself in that role. There's nothing "big bro/ little bro" or " were both #1's" about his placement in the Knicks hierarchy.
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Re: KAT To The Knicks Part 2 

Post#1930 » by E-Balla » Thu Oct 3, 2024 12:33 pm

HerSports85 wrote:
E-Balla wrote:
HerSports85 wrote:
I'm taking everyone else as trolls. But Eballa, I know from our BAF days that we have access to some of the same advance stats. And Thibs had KAT playing as an above average rim protector after his first year with Minny and after getting fired, Kat fell back down to an F grade. So honest question, you don't think he improves again under thibs?

The bold is false. KAT held opponents to -0.6% at the rim in 2018 and opponents took 1.4% more shots at the rim when KAT was on the floor vs when he was benched. KAT's career average he hold players -2.3% at the rim which is terrible for a C. Last 3 years combined it's -2.1%. That's about what we can expect, and it's one of the worst for Cs in the league. To compare him to another C not known for protecting the rim Vucevic is at a -1.6% for his career.

KAT did have a 2 year period post Thibs with Ryan Saunders where he was a -4 but it was more of a blip. If that's what we get from KAT its still below average but it's not terrible.

According to an article Melo posted with media day comments KAT will be playing PF long term when Mitch is back. Hopefully we keep Mitch because that's our saving grace. KAT with Gobert behind him is a good enough defender, Mitch can have a similar effect.


There's no argument that overall in his career he's at the bottom of the league compared to other bigs, before and after Thibs. The numbers I'm looking at support what you're saying.

But I think I'm getting different numbers that puts him above average in 2018 and average in 2019 compared to all bigs. What I'm looking at takes into account Rim Det +Rim dFG% vs Expected+Adjusted Rim Points Saved / 75 Possessions +% Rim Shots Contested and I think D-Lebron. So it goes a little more in depth.

I honestly don't know what we will get from KAT, he could very well be just as bad as Randle. I'm just waiting for the games to played and hoping for the best.

Nah he's better than Randle. My issue isn't on the floor it's his contact, consistent knuckleheadedness (he's better than Randle, but not much better, he has 5+ fouls in 1/3rd of his career playoff games and we battling that Embiid whistle), and injury history. If we didn't pay OG of all people I could try to justify it in my head at least. But we got too much going to 2 guys that may or may not be in street clothes.
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Re: KAT To The Knicks Part 2 

Post#1931 » by E-Balla » Thu Oct 3, 2024 12:40 pm

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Re: KAT To The Knicks Part 2 

Post#1932 » by prophet_of_rage » Thu Oct 3, 2024 12:50 pm

HerSports85 wrote:
E-Balla wrote:
HerSports85 wrote:
I'm taking everyone else as trolls. But Eballa, I know from our BAF days that we have access to some of the same advance stats. And Thibs had KAT playing as an above average rim protector after his first year with Minny and after getting fired, Kat fell back down to an F grade. So honest question, you don't think he improves again under thibs?

The bold is false. KAT held opponents to -0.6% at the rim in 2018 and opponents took 1.4% more shots at the rim when KAT was on the floor vs when he was benched. KAT's career average he hold players -2.3% at the rim which is terrible for a C. Last 3 years combined it's -2.1%. That's about what we can expect, and it's one of the worst for Cs in the league. To compare him to another C not known for protecting the rim Vucevic is at a -1.6% for his career.

KAT did have a 2 year period post Thibs with Ryan Saunders where he was a -4 but it was more of a blip. If that's what we get from KAT its still below average but it's not terrible.

According to an article Melo posted with media day comments KAT will be playing PF long term when Mitch is back. Hopefully we keep Mitch because that's our saving grace. KAT with Gobert behind him is a good enough defender, Mitch can have a similar effect.


There's no argument that overall in his career he's at the bottom of the league compared to other bigs, before and after Thibs. The numbers I'm looking at support what you're saying.

But I think I'm getting different numbers that puts him above average in 2018 and average in 2019 compared to all bigs. What I'm looking at takes into account Rim Det +Rim dFG% vs Expected+Adjusted Rim Points Saved / 75 Possessions +% Rim Shots Contested and I think D-Lebron. So it goes a little more in depth.

I honestly don't know what we will get from KAT, he could very well be just as bad as Randle. I'm just waiting for the games to played and hoping for the best.
This is the thing we're calling a 3 time All-Star, 2x.All-NBA player bad and then pinning ournhopes on somebody who has not performed to that level in his career and hasn't played for the Knicks.

The trade is a gamble. That's all. It can work beautifully or it could fail. Both are possible.

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Re: KAT To The Knicks Part 2 

Post#1933 » by Context » Thu Oct 3, 2024 12:55 pm

mpharris36 wrote:
Guano wrote:
Deeeez Knicks wrote:
We only had 4 months to move Randle. They know he's opting out, coming off a major injury, getting older....value is really not high.

This was probably the best they could do.


This is why some of us are a lil skeptical of this move. They just committed to a super max guy entering his prime who was essentially moved for a salary dump, 2nd rounders, and a nice 6th man. I mean divo is nice but that essentially all they're getting in this deal. Maybe they facilitate Randle moving in the offseason or mid-season to recoup some talent. But yeah point stands. KAT's value is low for a reason. He is a flawed big on a massive deal.



I do think people are downplaing how punitive being in the 2nd apron is in consecutive year. Twolves are a 2nd apron team this year with Ant Edwards new contract kicking in. They were also going to be a 2nd apron team next year unless they moved off of KAT or Gobert. And they also want to re-sign Naz Reid and NAW.

I guess you can say then why not just Gobert. Well who is interested in Gobert at that contact that would trade mutliple salaries for a defensive minded center (a great one but still not sure the market). A twolves pod guy was on with KFS...he said the twolves needed to cut future salary but they also weren't willing to take a step back because they think they are good enough to contend.

He said they turned down multiple 1sts and salary filler type offers for KAT...but they wanted guys that could play and contribute which is where Randle/DD/protected 1st come in.

Meanwhile the Knicks had this Randle opt out looming over the franchise. They clearly didn't want to pay him what him and his reps were asking for. He wasn't going to take less than OG...he wasn't going to take less than Siakam...why would he? And with the CBA so damning if you already are an apron team you really can't risk bringing a guy to term on his contract. Because if you lose him you still are over the cap and can't improve but you lose there production for nothing. So while KAT is flawed he is still an upgrade over Randle and the cost of doing business was including DD...which sucks but I think the Knicks are hoping some combination of Duece/Kolek/Payne can make up for that miss. Oh and Mikal coming in as well.

The bold is the #1 key!
Why wont some of you just accept this? I'm so happy I missed the last 6 seasons prior to last season but I dont think some of you are going to be able to enjoy this run to a chip. You mean to tell me you've waited for this all of your life (not directed at mph) to have a player like Brunson and a team of ELITE talent around said player and all you're going to do is challenge the first competent front office that we've seen in 25+ years- probably longer-instead of just humbling yourself and trusting this front office and Thibs?

I dont care how smart and knowledgeable we think we are -we dont know more about the knicks and nba world behind the scenes than Leon Rose does.

If some of you keep this up you are going to miss something you've been waiting for your entire life! Remember the wake up Phil memes? Some of you need to wake up and let this negativity go!
And I say that with Love...
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Re: KAT To The Knicks Part 2 

Post#1934 » by seren » Thu Oct 3, 2024 1:02 pm

Forget about Randle. Let’s compare today’s roster to the end of playoff squad: Bridges replaces DDV, KAT replaces IHart, if you insist Payne replaces Burks. Do we beat Indiana? I think we do
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Re: KAT To The Knicks Part 2 

Post#1935 » by VirginiaKnickFan » Thu Oct 3, 2024 1:07 pm

seren wrote:Forget about Randle. Let’s compare today’s roster to the end of playoff squad: Bridges replaces DDV, KAT replaces IHart, if you insist Payne replaces Burks. Do we beat Indiana? I think we do


A lot depends on is Mitch able to return healthy, and more importantly stay healthy for the remainder of the year.
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Re: KAT To The Knicks Part 2 

Post#1936 » by Jonathan2347 » Thu Oct 3, 2024 1:08 pm

We don't lose Ihart this trade would be perfect. But even then it was a needed trade for many reasons. We didn't trade for a old star over 30 like Dame, Butler, PG13...etc

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Re: KAT To The Knicks Part 2 

Post#1937 » by Buttah304 » Thu Oct 3, 2024 1:13 pm

Maybe I’m wrong about the opinion of KATs health, but this is his percentage of play with respect to each season:

2015 - 100%
2016 - 100%
2017 - 100%
2018 - 94%
2019 + 2020 (Covid Years): 65%
2021 - 90%
2022 - 35%
2023 - 76%

I know we live in the age of shock & awe, extreme opinions and believing whatever you see on the internet, but objectively speaking would you call the player above a huge health risk/liability?
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Re: KAT To The Knicks Part 2 

Post#1938 » by Clyde_Style » Thu Oct 3, 2024 1:15 pm

Tron Carter wrote:
TrueWarrior wrote:Idk how some of you have the time or energy to argue all day every day. It’s not even entertaining like it used to be.

Look ppl, our big moves are mostly done. Signed Jalen, then traded our fabled stockpile for Josh, OG, Mikal, and now Karl. This is the squad.

We couldnt get Giannis, Luka, Joel, Jaylen, Shai, Devin, etc (at least yet) so we got the next best things to not waste Jalen’s prime with Julius and RJ. Time to accept it and support these dudes, because even if it’s not perfect they have a legit shot, which isnt something we could say for 30 years.

Honestly I enjoy the team less when I’m here, which is why I didnt post for 3 months. All about agendas. We’re good now, and dont have much trade/draft news to talk about, so some dont know what to do with themselves about that.

I wish all you crazy bastards well though. See you at the parade. Let’s go Knicks. Later.


QFT

I miss when I could argue with knicks fans and not people who are just fans of their opinion or preconceived notions


Most of us don't care if people hate KAT.

We're simply exhausted with people who can't state their opinion without flaming anyone who disagrees with them or whose criticisms of a player are a pivot from some other axe to grind that they can't let go of.

If you're going to be that prideful about being petty then go stand in front of a mirror and insult yourself. The rest of us don't have time to wade through troll agendas.
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Re: KAT To The Knicks Part 2 

Post#1939 » by NYKinMIA » Thu Oct 3, 2024 1:21 pm

I'm blown away that we're coming up on 200 pages of this shyt.

thankfully that carpal tunnel should be kicking in soon.
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Re: KAT To The Knicks Part 2 

Post#1940 » by E-Balla » Thu Oct 3, 2024 1:23 pm

Buttah304 wrote:Maybe I’m wrong about the opinion of KATs health, but this is his percentage of play with respect to each season:

2015 - 100%
2016 - 100%
2017 - 100%
2018 - 94%
2019 + 2020 (Covid Years): 65%
2021 - 90%
2022 - 35%
2023 - 76%

I know we live in the age of shock & awe, extreme opinions and believing whatever you see on the internet, but objectively speaking would you call the player above a huge health risk/liability?

That's 56% of games the last 2 seasons.

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