Karl-Anthony Towns Traded to New York (Official Discussion Thread)

[Zonarosa]

yet we’re still a second apron team. the lore/rodriguez proposal estimated getting down to $170 or something,

They saved 26 million this year with this move. There’s probably a more accurate figure but that’s what I’ve seen on a few different sites.

It is what it is. Taylor runs the team.

right. but it's a bit disingenuous to accuse taylor of doing what he said the other two were going to do when they're still 60 million over that proposal.

well look at that. sheesh.

All summer long, after the Wolves advanced out of the first round for just the second time in franchise history, Taylor insisted to Connelly and the front office staff that he was comfortable paying a hefty luxury tax bill, team sources told The Athletic. In addition, those sources said Taylor preferred to retain Towns rather than make a trade that made his team demonstrably worse. He did not want to take a step back this season.

[Klomp]

I think where some Timberwolves fans take issue with the trade return is that there is a disconnect due to it not being a rebuilding return.

Over the years, when you see trade packages, you see prospects and picks be the focal point. Not only in Minnesota trades, but across the league. Since neither of those things are really there, the package feels subpar.

It's hard to adjust to being a good team as a fan base, sometimes.

[younggunsmn]

I think where some Timberwolves fans take issue with the trade return is that there is a disconnect due to it not being a rebuilding return.

Over the years, when you see trade packages, you see prospects and picks be the focal point. Not only in Minnesota trades, but across the league. Since neither of those things are really there, the package feels subpar.

It's hard to adjust to being a good team as a fan base, sometimes.

I agree,
Future picks drag out the timeline for judging the outcome of a trade, teasing and appeasing the fanbase.
Hey we lost a great player but we have those picks in 3 and 5 years to look forward to!

It feels nice in the moment, but RARELY works out to be anything significant.
For every one Jaylen Brown you hit on with one of those future picks, you get 20 different versions of Austin RIvers.

So while I'm a bit bummed we didn't get great value for a player of KAT's caliber, I'm glad we don't have to wait another 5 years to judge the return.
UTAH has sucked for 2 years now since trading away Gobert after being in the playoffs every year with him before.
At what point does accumulating all those assets become not worth the years and years and years of losing?

Worst case we traded 4 years of KAT for 3 years of Divencenzo and 1 year of Randle + 3 years of 40-60 million in salary relief, which when you are potentially multiplying that 4 or 5 times for luxury tax purposes, is gigantic.
As long as we have a talented and productive player at the 4 going forward, whether that's Randle or Naz, I can't hate too hard on the trade. Maybe in 2-3 years we have Randle or Naz making 25-30 million while KAT is making 55-60 million.
If they both leave next summer though it becomes kind of troubling.

So we gave up the lesser of Denver/Philly pick (for sure a 55 or later pick) in '25 to CHA to complete the KAT trade.
I thought it might be the top 50 protected 2nd we got from Memphis in the draft day trade down when I heard we'd have to send something to Charlotte to make the trade legal.
Always sucks to lose an asset, but that's not a big loss.

I was kinda surprised the Knicks got James Nnaji, the 31st pick in '23, from Charlotte in the deal.
But he's apparently really struggling overseas. Must really suck for the Hornets to just throw him into a salary dump trade like that.
Would be like us just throwing in Leonard Miller.

[Klomp]

As long as we have a talented and productive player at the 4 going forward, whether that's Randle or Naz, I can't hate too hard on the trade. Maybe in 2-3 years we have Randle or Naz making 25-30 million while KAT is making 55-60 million.
If they both leave next summer though it becomes kind of troubling.

First I wanted to mention that I found myself nodding the whole way through your post.

To the small snippet, I wanted to say that I see like less than a 5 percent chance of that happening. Honestly, I'd personally give slightly greater odds to bringing back both of them.

[TimberKat]

I haven't catch up to all the msgs in this group, partly due to wanted to be away after the trade. Now looks like Taylor wanted to keep Towns and paid the tax. So this is a pure basketball move by Connelly (still a possibility of ARod forced move). Are we a better team after the trade? I don't think so but since we trusted Connelly on the Gobert trade, maybe it will work out. At least they won't need a full time team shrink to manage Towns. The big question for me will be if they get back to conference final and what happens to Randle's salary slot - it better turn into some real asset.

[Colbinii]

The big question for me will be if they get back to conference final and what happens to Randle's salary slot - it better turn into some real asset.

The odds are we aren't going to get back to the WCF, even if we are a better team. The West is a lot better this year than last year.

OKC - Could be a 60+ win team. Added a good center [Hartenstein] and DPOY candidate [Caruso] both in the midst of their primes [26 and 30 years old respectively]. Their young core is just entering their primes [Chet and J-Dub] and they have an MVP candidate in SGA.

Dallas - I think they are similar as last year. They swapped DJJ for Klay/Marshall/Grimes. They aren't as deep as Minnesota, but their Top 2 is better in Kyrie/Luka.

Denver - Worse than last year. Honestly, not worried about them. Randle can replicate most of what Towns did against Jokic due to Randle's strength. They lost KCP and didn't replace him.

Phoenix - They added a starting caliber PG in Tyus Jones and a good back-up in Monte Morris. Still not a serious threat to us [Minnesota], but they are going to be a dynamic Regular Season team.

Memphis - This is the dark-horse of the West. They were a high-50's win team before Ja's off-court issues. They are better now, with prime JJJ and Bane, a healthy Clarke, Edey looks to be an impactful NBA player with his size and skill-set [especially in the Regular Season]. Their depth is middling, but they could be a Top 4 team in the West when the playoffs start.

After these teams [who are who to me, have the clearest chance of dethroning Minnesota as the #1 team in the West], there are some wildcards.

Lakers - LeBron was the best player in the Olympics. He can still be, without a doubt, the best player in a Playoff Series. They have AD and look to be healthier [Vando/Vincent] and have a better coach [potentially in JJ].

Sacramento - If things click perfectly they could jump up to the top group. Their offense is going to be deadly with tons of shooting, adding DeMar takes some pressure off Sabonis/Fox. Defensively, not worried about them in a playoff series, but their offense can win 50+ games if all things fall right.

Warriors - They need a lot to break right, with Wiggins being MIA the past 2 seasons, Draymond aging out and their 3 biggest additions [Hield, SlowMo and Melton] all have question marks around their skill-sets or health, it is hard to buy them as series contenders. I love Podziemski, but their depth has question marks and they have no real #2 option.

Houston - Another sleeper and pseudo Dark-Horse. I love Reed Sheppard. The 2nd coming of Steph Curry? Why not. I don't think they can jump to the top group, but my god are they going to be difficult to beat. They have a ton of depth [more than us] but lack the top-end talent and seem to be a year away with their youth [7 of their top 10 players are 22 or younger].

New Orleans - Honestly, I am tempted to move them down to a 3rd grouping, but healthy Zion with Ingram/CJ/Murray/Herb/Murphy is nice. The rest of the roster? Hell Nah. No Center in a conference with Gobert/Jokic/AD/Sabonis/Sengun is laughable at best.

San Antonio - Yeah, I did it. Wemby is a GOAT level nba player. You couldn't even create this skill-set on 2K [alright, you can...I think? I haven't played 2K since 2018]. The rest of the roster is meh at best and eww at worst. Probably should be in the group below, but Wemby

I can't take these teams seriously

Utah - A worse version of New Orleans
Portland - I can't believe I had Scoot as a Top Tier PG Prospect over the past decade
Clippers - Harden's last dance. I expect Harden to be good until the Clippers are 12-21 on Christmas Day, Kawhi is playing 1 game per week with knee soreness/issues and their depth just doesn't give a great coach in Ty Lue enough ammunition.

[shrink]

I haven't catch up to all the msgs in this group, partly due to wanted to be away after the trade. Now looks like Taylor wanted to keep Towns and paid the tax. So this is a pure basketball move by Connelly (still a possibility of ARod forced move). Are we a better team after the trade? I don't think so but since we trusted Connelly on the Gobert trade, maybe it will work out. At least they won't need a full time team shrink to manage Towns. The big question for me will be if they get back to conference final and what happens to Randle's salary slot - it better turn into some real asset.

Do you consider it an asset if we don’t bring back Randle next year, and use that money to keep Naz?

I agree with you, Randle’s salary is the big question. He is a better player than Naz, at least in the short-term, and while I think KAT is better overall, he has some skills like playmaking that this team desperately needs. If Randle is playing well, how much can we pay him? And unlike in NYK, Randle doesn’t have the leverage to ask to be overpaid to keep the salary spot, because we can give his money to Naz. A good player on a fair contract is always valuable.

I would also remind people that Randle also has a $31 mil player option. The ex-All NBA player is most likely going to opt out, since $31 isn’t that much for a player of his quality, but if he gets hurt, there is a chance that our books could get really fouled up.

[KGdaBom]

As long as we have a talented and productive player at the 4 going forward, whether that's Randle or Naz, I can't hate too hard on the trade. Maybe in 2-3 years we have Randle or Naz making 25-30 million while KAT is making 55-60 million.
If they both leave next summer though it becomes kind of troubling.

First I wanted to mention that I found myself nodding the whole way through your post.

To the small snippet, I wanted to say that I see like less than a 5 percent chance of that happening. Honestly, I'd personally give slightly greater odds to bringing back both of them.

I like the way you think. Does Glen?

[TimberKat]

Utah - A worse version of New Orleans
Portland - I can't believe I had Scoot as a Top Tier PG Prospect over the past decade
Clippers - Harden's last dance. I expect Harden to be good until the Clippers are 12-21 on Christmas Day, Kawhi is playing 1 game per week with knee soreness/issues and their depth just doesn't give a great coach in Ty Lue enough ammunition.

The west is loaded ( or a lot of parity). Portland is the only bad team. Even Utah and LAC could be a play-in.

[TimberKat]

I haven't catch up to all the msgs in this group, partly due to wanted to be away after the trade. Now looks like Taylor wanted to keep Towns and paid the tax. So this is a pure basketball move by Connelly (still a possibility of ARod forced move). Are we a better team after the trade? I don't think so but since we trusted Connelly on the Gobert trade, maybe it will work out. At least they won't need a full time team shrink to manage Towns. The big question for me will be if they get back to conference final and what happens to Randle's salary slot - it better turn into some real asset.

Do you consider it an asset if we don’t bring back Randle next year, and use that money to keep Naz?

I agree with you, Randle’s salary is the big question. He is a better player than Naz, at least in the short-term, and while I think KAT is better overall, he has some skills like playmaking that this team desperately needs. If Randle is playing well, how much can we pay him? And unlike in NYK, Randle doesn’t have the leverage to ask to be overpaid to keep the salary spot, because we can give his money to Naz. A good player on a fair contract is always valuable.

I would also remind people that Randle also has a $31 mil player option. The ex-All NBA player is most likely going to opt out, since $31 isn’t that much for a player of his quality, but if he gets hurt, there is a chance that our books could get really fouled up.

I am still a believer of building a big three. Have two players that require double team than build around them. Celtics didn't trade Brown for Zinger + Kuzma. Naz is a poor man's Towns, so for me keeping him is not holding on to asset unless he has a Brunson like breakout year. Maybe we somehow package anything but Ant to get another top 20 player?

I also think 30 mil for Randle is about right. He is ready to decline anyway.

[KGdaBom]

The big question for me will be if they get back to conference final and what happens to Randle's salary slot - it better turn into some real asset.

The odds are we aren't going to get back to the WCF, even if we are a better team. The West is a lot better this year than last year.

OKC - Could be a 60+ win team. Added a good center [Hartenstein] and DPOY candidate [Caruso] both in the midst of their primes [26 and 30 years old respectively]. Their young core is just entering their primes [Chet and J-Dub] and they have an MVP candidate in SGA.

Dallas - I think they are similar as last year. They swapped DJJ for Klay/Marshall/Grimes. They aren't as deep as Minnesota, but their Top 2 is better in Kyrie/Luka.

Denver - Worse than last year. Honestly, not worried about them. Randle can replicate most of what Towns did against Jokic due to Randle's strength. They lost KCP and didn't replace him.

Phoenix - They added a starting caliber PG in Tyus Jones and a good back-up in Monte Morris. Still not a serious threat to us [Minnesota], but they are going to be a dynamic Regular Season team.

Memphis - This is the dark-horse of the West. They were a high-50's win team before Ja's off-court issues. They are better now, with prime JJJ and Bane, a healthy Clarke, Edey looks to be an impactful NBA player with his size and skill-set [especially in the Regular Season]. Their depth is middling, but they could be a Top 4 team in the West when the playoffs start.

After these teams [who are who to me, have the clearest chance of dethroning Minnesota as the #1 team in the West], there are some wildcards.

Lakers - LeBron was the best player in the Olympics. He can still be, without a doubt, the best player in a Playoff Series. They have AD and look to be healthier [Vando/Vincent] and have a better coach [potentially in JJ].

Sacramento - If things click perfectly they could jump up to the top group. Their offense is going to be deadly with tons of shooting, adding DeMar takes some pressure off Sabonis/Fox. Defensively, not worried about them in a playoff series, but their offense can win 50+ games if all things fall right.

Warriors - They need a lot to break right, with Wiggins being MIA the past 2 seasons, Draymond aging out and their 3 biggest additions [Hield, SlowMo and Melton] all have question marks around their skill-sets or health, it is hard to buy them as series contenders. I love Podziemski, but their depth has question marks and they have no real #2 option.

Houston - Another sleeper and pseudo Dark-Horse. I love Reed Sheppard. The 2nd coming of Steph Curry? Why not. I don't think they can jump to the top group, but my god are they going to be difficult to beat. They have a ton of depth [more than us] but lack the top-end talent and seem to be a year away with their youth [7 of their top 10 players are 22 or younger].

New Orleans - Honestly, I am tempted to move them down to a 3rd grouping, but healthy Zion with Ingram/CJ/Murray/Herb/Murphy is nice. The rest of the roster? Hell Nah. No Center in a conference with Gobert/Jokic/AD/Sabonis/Sengun is laughable at best.

San Antonio - Yeah, I did it. Wemby is a GOAT level nba player. You couldn't even create this skill-set on 2K [alright, you can...I think? I haven't played 2K since 2018]. The rest of the roster is meh at best and eww at worst. Probably should be in the group below, but Wemby

I can't take these teams seriously

Utah - A worse version of New Orleans
Portland - I can't believe I had Scoot as a Top Tier PG Prospect over the past decade
Clippers - Harden's last dance. I expect Harden to be good until the Clippers are 12-21 on Christmas Day, Kawhi is playing 1 game per week with knee soreness/issues and their depth just doesn't give a great coach in Ty Lue enough ammunition.

The odds aren't in favor of anybody making the conference finals, but I like our chances more than the other teams.

[shrink]

For the record, after the trade, MIN moved up +100 in the odds to win a championship, and have the second best odds in the West.

+320 Boston Celtics
+650 Oklahoma City Thunder
+750 New York Knicks
+1000 Minnesota Timberwolves
+1000 Philadelphia 76ers
+1100 Denver Nuggets
+1100 Dallas Mavericks

[Colbinii]

The big question for me will be if they get back to conference final and what happens to Randle's salary slot - it better turn into some real asset.

The odds are we aren't going to get back to the WCF, even if we are a better team. The West is a lot better this year than last year.

OKC - Could be a 60+ win team. Added a good center [Hartenstein] and DPOY candidate [Caruso] both in the midst of their primes [26 and 30 years old respectively]. Their young core is just entering their primes [Chet and J-Dub] and they have an MVP candidate in SGA.

Dallas - I think they are similar as last year. They swapped DJJ for Klay/Marshall/Grimes. They aren't as deep as Minnesota, but their Top 2 is better in Kyrie/Luka.

Denver - Worse than last year. Honestly, not worried about them. Randle can replicate most of what Towns did against Jokic due to Randle's strength. They lost KCP and didn't replace him.

Phoenix - They added a starting caliber PG in Tyus Jones and a good back-up in Monte Morris. Still not a serious threat to us [Minnesota], but they are going to be a dynamic Regular Season team.

Memphis - This is the dark-horse of the West. They were a high-50's win team before Ja's off-court issues. They are better now, with prime JJJ and Bane, a healthy Clarke, Edey looks to be an impactful NBA player with his size and skill-set [especially in the Regular Season]. Their depth is middling, but they could be a Top 4 team in the West when the playoffs start.

After these teams [who are who to me, have the clearest chance of dethroning Minnesota as the #1 team in the West], there are some wildcards.

Lakers - LeBron was the best player in the Olympics. He can still be, without a doubt, the best player in a Playoff Series. They have AD and look to be healthier [Vando/Vincent] and have a better coach [potentially in JJ].

Sacramento - If things click perfectly they could jump up to the top group. Their offense is going to be deadly with tons of shooting, adding DeMar takes some pressure off Sabonis/Fox. Defensively, not worried about them in a playoff series, but their offense can win 50+ games if all things fall right.

Warriors - They need a lot to break right, with Wiggins being MIA the past 2 seasons, Draymond aging out and their 3 biggest additions [Hield, SlowMo and Melton] all have question marks around their skill-sets or health, it is hard to buy them as series contenders. I love Podziemski, but their depth has question marks and they have no real #2 option.

Houston - Another sleeper and pseudo Dark-Horse. I love Reed Sheppard. The 2nd coming of Steph Curry? Why not. I don't think they can jump to the top group, but my god are they going to be difficult to beat. They have a ton of depth [more than us] but lack the top-end talent and seem to be a year away with their youth [7 of their top 10 players are 22 or younger].

New Orleans - Honestly, I am tempted to move them down to a 3rd grouping, but healthy Zion with Ingram/CJ/Murray/Herb/Murphy is nice. The rest of the roster? Hell Nah. No Center in a conference with Gobert/Jokic/AD/Sabonis/Sengun is laughable at best.

San Antonio - Yeah, I did it. Wemby is a GOAT level nba player. You couldn't even create this skill-set on 2K [alright, you can...I think? I haven't played 2K since 2018]. The rest of the roster is meh at best and eww at worst. Probably should be in the group below, but Wemby

I can't take these teams seriously

Utah - A worse version of New Orleans
Portland - I can't believe I had Scoot as a Top Tier PG Prospect over the past decade
Clippers - Harden's last dance. I expect Harden to be good until the Clippers are 12-21 on Christmas Day, Kawhi is playing 1 game per week with knee soreness/issues and their depth just doesn't give a great coach in Ty Lue enough ammunition.

The odds aren't in favor of anybody making the conference finals, but I like our chances more than the other teams.

Aside from OKC, I agree.

[KGdaBom]

The odds are we aren't going to get back to the WCF, even if we are a better team. The West is a lot better this year than last year.

OKC - Could be a 60+ win team. Added a good center [Hartenstein] and DPOY candidate [Caruso] both in the midst of their primes [26 and 30 years old respectively]. Their young core is just entering their primes [Chet and J-Dub] and they have an MVP candidate in SGA.

Dallas - I think they are similar as last year. They swapped DJJ for Klay/Marshall/Grimes. They aren't as deep as Minnesota, but their Top 2 is better in Kyrie/Luka.

Denver - Worse than last year. Honestly, not worried about them. Randle can replicate most of what Towns did against Jokic due to Randle's strength. They lost KCP and didn't replace him.

Phoenix - They added a starting caliber PG in Tyus Jones and a good back-up in Monte Morris. Still not a serious threat to us [Minnesota], but they are going to be a dynamic Regular Season team.

Memphis - This is the dark-horse of the West. They were a high-50's win team before Ja's off-court issues. They are better now, with prime JJJ and Bane, a healthy Clarke, Edey looks to be an impactful NBA player with his size and skill-set [especially in the Regular Season]. Their depth is middling, but they could be a Top 4 team in the West when the playoffs start.

After these teams [who are who to me, have the clearest chance of dethroning Minnesota as the #1 team in the West], there are some wildcards.

Lakers - LeBron was the best player in the Olympics. He can still be, without a doubt, the best player in a Playoff Series. They have AD and look to be healthier [Vando/Vincent] and have a better coach [potentially in JJ].

Sacramento - If things click perfectly they could jump up to the top group. Their offense is going to be deadly with tons of shooting, adding DeMar takes some pressure off Sabonis/Fox. Defensively, not worried about them in a playoff series, but their offense can win 50+ games if all things fall right.

Warriors - They need a lot to break right, with Wiggins being MIA the past 2 seasons, Draymond aging out and their 3 biggest additions [Hield, SlowMo and Melton] all have question marks around their skill-sets or health, it is hard to buy them as series contenders. I love Podziemski, but their depth has question marks and they have no real #2 option.

Houston - Another sleeper and pseudo Dark-Horse. I love Reed Sheppard. The 2nd coming of Steph Curry? Why not. I don't think they can jump to the top group, but my god are they going to be difficult to beat. They have a ton of depth [more than us] but lack the top-end talent and seem to be a year away with their youth [7 of their top 10 players are 22 or younger].

New Orleans - Honestly, I am tempted to move them down to a 3rd grouping, but healthy Zion with Ingram/CJ/Murray/Herb/Murphy is nice. The rest of the roster? Hell Nah. No Center in a conference with Gobert/Jokic/AD/Sabonis/Sengun is laughable at best.

San Antonio - Yeah, I did it. Wemby is a GOAT level nba player. You couldn't even create this skill-set on 2K [alright, you can...I think? I haven't played 2K since 2018]. The rest of the roster is meh at best and eww at worst. Probably should be in the group below, but Wemby

I can't take these teams seriously

Utah - A worse version of New Orleans
Portland - I can't believe I had Scoot as a Top Tier PG Prospect over the past decade
Clippers - Harden's last dance. I expect Harden to be good until the Clippers are 12-21 on Christmas Day, Kawhi is playing 1 game per week with knee soreness/issues and their depth just doesn't give a great coach in Ty Lue enough ammunition.

The odds aren't in favor of anybody making the conference finals, but I like our chances more than the other teams.

Aside from OKC, I agree.

OKC has potential. Potential is seldom realized. We shall see.

[Colbinii]

The odds aren't in favor of anybody making the conference finals, but I like our chances more than the other teams.

Aside from OKC, I agree.

OKC has potential. Potential is seldom realized. We shall see.

What do you mean? They have talent and were just as good as us last year, losing to the same team we lost to last year...

[BlacJacMac]

Aside from OKC, I agree.

OKC has potential. Potential is seldom realized. We shall see.

What do you mean? They have talent and were just as good as us last year, losing to the same team we lost to last year...

I still don't think their built for the Playoffs. I think they likely get a Top 3 seed, but I don't see them winning more than a series.

Hartenstein helps, but he does also keep them from playing the way they want to?

[KGdaBom]

Aside from OKC, I agree.

OKC has potential. Potential is seldom realized. We shall see.

What do you mean? They have talent and were just as good as us last year, losing to the same team we lost to last year...

Talent = potential. They didn't live up to it. Yeah they lost to the same team we did, but not conference finals. We were better and I think still are. We are also better than Dallas. We were just worn down by the time we faced them. More depth this year. We will stay fresher.

[Slim Tubby]

We all know what we lost in KAT from a productivity standpoint. However, can anyone really say that we didn't get more overall contributions to winning with Randle and DDV coming back to MIN?

KAT is a tremendous human being and I worry about him and how he copes with the NY media when he plays poorly. The Knicks' bench is terrifyingly shallow and there will be no place to hide if their injury-prone starters go down.

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[younggunsmn]

OKC has potential. Potential is seldom realized. We shall see.

What do you mean? They have talent and were just as good as us last year, losing to the same team we lost to last year...

Talent = potential. They didn't live up to it. Yeah they lost to the same team we did, but not conference finals. We were better and I think still are. We are also better than Dallas. We were just worn down by the time we faced them. More depth this year. We will stay fresher.

I think people are underestimating what a boost Hartenstein and Caruso are going to be for them.
Chet goes from getting bullied by bigger stronger guys to being a menace as a weakside shotblocker who can roam and move his feet.

Whether or not they take the next IMHO depends on J-Will's ability to be the secondary shot creator and scorer they need him to be.
He had superstar efficiency last year, if he can scale that up, the rest of league is in serious trouble because that team is already loaded and owns enough draft picks to start 2 more expansion teams.

[winforlose]

We all know what we lost in KAT from a productivity standpoint. However, can anyone really say that we didn't get more overall contributions to winning with Randle and DDV coming back to MIN?

KAT is a tremendous human being and I worry about him and how he copes with the NY media when he plays poorly. The Knicks' bench is terrifyingly shallow and there will be no place to hide if their injury-prone starters go down.

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Counterpoints

1. Randle’s inconsistency from deep creates spacing issues with Rudy.

2. Randle is a stretch 5 whereas Karl was an all NBA C. If Rudy goes down we have very little behind him.

3. Karl is worth more than a possible Randle rental, DDV, a protected first, and KBD. We got too little value back.