OT: Lonnie Walker, Updates

[hugepatsfan]

Just to comment on some general ideas in this thread.

The fact they gave up a pick and took on the money for Springer implies they saw something in him. That doesn't mean he's safe for life either. The cost they paid for him doesn't mean he's got a tight grip on his roster spot. The same way they used a fairly decent 2nd rounder on Walsh and people are talking of cutting him here. They gave their MLE to Schroeder a few years ago and moved on from him by the deadline. They trade for/sign/draft players they like, but no one is perfect. They can like a guy and then realize it doesn't fit at all or it doesn't fit well enough to justify the cost.

I also think the fact that they were so free with spending on our top rotation players shouldn't be taken as a sign that they'll spend freely on the third string. In fact, I'd argue it means the opposite most likely. All of the salary comes from the same money pool so spending more on the top could (and my guess is that it does) mean they're more inclined to spend less on the rest. It's just simple math.

[Hal14]

The fact they gave up a pick and took on the money for Springer implies they saw something in him.

Agreed

That doesn't mean he's safe for life either.

Of course not. I don't see anybody saying he's safe for life.

I just think that it's highly unlikely we would just salary dump him in a trade, as some folks here are suggesting.

The cost they paid for him doesn't mean he's got a tight grip on his roster spot. The same way they used a fairly decent 2nd rounder on Walsh and people are talking of cutting him here.

First off, I never said we should cut Walsh. Walsh has a guaranteed contract - he's not getting cut.

A couple folks, have suggested we might salary dump Walsh in a trade. That (imo) is quite a bit different than salary dumping Springer in a trade because:

-Springer is much closer to being an NBA rotation player than Walsh. Springer was already getting NBA rotation mins for the Sixers last season. Philly's last 5 games with Springer on their roster, he played in all 5 games, playing between 19-25 mins in each game. He also played in 5 other games in January where he played 13+ mins in those games. Springer led Philly's G league team to the G league title, he was the MVP. He was way better than Walsh at Summer League this year..he's about a year and a half older than Walsh.

Also, this quote from Mazzulla seems to imply that Walsh is a long ways away from being ready to contribute for the big club - it implies that Walsh cannot currently do any of the things he mentions:

Read on Twitter

-Walsh has also been with the team longer than Springer has. Walsh is now in his 2nd training camp with Boston,, he's had 2 summer leagues with the team, has played a full preseason with the team, 1 full season split between Boston and Maine and gone through offseason workouts in Boston twice. After all of that, we get the quote from Mazzulla that implies Walsh is a project who is 2 years away from being 2 years away

That's a bit different than Springer who's only been here for less than half a season, has yet to play in any preseason games for Boston, has yet to go through a full training camp with the team, has only gone through offseason workouts with Boston one time and only played in 1 summer league game.

Plus, Brad had lots of very positive things to say about Springer after we traded for him, after he had already been in the league for 2.5 years which tells me he is much closer to contributing for this Celtics team than Walsh.

They gave their MLE to Schroeder a few years ago and moved on from him by the deadline.

Comparing Schroeder to Soringer is a bit of an apples to oranges thing, imo. Schroder was like 27 when we got him, turned 28 as a Celtic. He was basically a finished product when we got him. He wasn't some young guy we were developing. With a guy like that (an older guy, a finished product), a half a season should be enough time to tell whether or not the guy is going to work out with your team, how well he fits the system, etc. They had Schoder for half a season, he clearly wasn't a good fit..so they traded him. But still, they didn't just get rid of him in a salary dump move (like some of ya'll are thinking we'll do with Springer). We moved Schroder in a trade that got us Theis back, who filled a need on the team for a backup big man and was a guy we knew was a better fit from his first stint in Boston.

Since that was a trade to upgrade the team, rather than a salary dump, it is apples to oranges to the Springer situation, in terms of folks saying we should just salary dump him.

They can like a guy and then realize it doesn't fit at all or it doesn't fit well enough to justify the cost

We don't really have any evidence to suggest that Springer is any less of a fit than he was when we traded for him.

-In the few games he played for Boston last season, I think he did about as well as could be expected, for a 21 year old kid coming off an injury and getting thrown onto a new team halfway through the season, with no training camp with the team and having to learn the system/schemes on the fly, while getting sporadic playing time on a team that was loaded with talent and depth.

-He was awesome in the 1 summer league game he played for us - and his performance in that game is even more impressive since Miami won the summer league championship..and they won the SL championship despite the fact that Jaquez only played in 2 of their 6 games - yet the game Boston played vs Miami (where Springer was awesome) was 1 of the 2 games Jaquez played in

That's it..those are the only games we have of Springer in a Celtics uniform. Oh, he played in like 1 game for Maine last season and was awesome in that game too.

I mean, unless he is awful this year in Training Camp/preseason, I don't see how anyone could think he is any less of a fit than he was when we traded for him.

[redslastlaugh]

As far as I know, no player has signed a 2nd contract, even as a second round pick, for less than $4 million/yr. I think Miles McBride signed the smallest per year rookie extension, and he was a second round pick and he still is making $4-$5 million. We will have to see how Jaden Springer performs but compared to Jordan Walsh he is gonna cost a lot more, especially if we stay in the repeater and get up to the 7.5x repeater tax. Where the difference between a Miles McBride level contract and a Jordan Walsh contract starts looking like $12-$20 million in the tax.

But hey, if Jaden Springer takes a big leap, maybe that’s the solution to our luxury tax repeater problem in that we could move Jrue and Payton, let KP come off and drop under the tax for 1-2 yrs to get a reset, especially with the cap rising under the new TV deal.

It seems not that likely though that Springer can step up such that he could play Jrue Holidays role ona team with title hopes … but who knows, this is the time in the year for irrational hopefulness.

[Dogen]

Me, trying to back pedal on my posts about Walker, after the Abu Dhabi games.

Watch on YouTube

[ConstableGeneva]

Read on Twitter

[redslastlaugh]

Lonnie Walker looked like doodoo in these 2 games, lol

[phincsfan]

Me, trying to back pedal on my posts about Walker, after the Abu Dhabi games.

Watch on YouTube

That's funny

I had high hopes for quick results also. There's still 3 games left to see what he can offer, but to only get 4 and 7 minutes of garbage time is telling. He obviously took the only offer out there. Maybe he was hoping to be this years Svi, play with the big club, compete for a ring, get that experience for the resume and then sign a 4 year deal someplace else? if it was only that simple.

If I had to guess, he's gonna be in Maine. I'm sure G-League offers were the best that Oshae could get, but for him that would be a step back considering he was on the bench for a championship team. Walker may have no choice but to lace em up in Maine. I can't be mad at Brad for at least kicking the tires. It also shows that Brad if anything is looking out for the kid and giving him a chance to audition for some team in the NBA. He did it with Tony Snell who has an interesting story with health insurance and the NBA's medical plan. Kudos's to Brad.

[Hal14]

I had high hopes for quick results also. There's still 3 games left to see what he can offer, but to only get 4 and 7 minutes of garbage time is telling. He obviously took the only offer out there. Maybe he was hoping to be this years Svi, play with the big club, compete for a ring, get that experience for the resume and then sign a 4 year deal someplace else? if it was only that simple.

Well to be fair, we had a bunch of open roster spots last offseason. Brad went out and signed Brissett, Banton, Stevens and Svi..all made the team and even after they all got signed we were still at just 14 total players on the roster.

And you need to have at least 14 players on the roster. So Svi was essentially a shoe-in to make it.

It's a different situation for Walker, who got signed to an exhibit 10 after we already had 14 guys on the roster - and all 14 of them have guaranteed contracts.

We need 14 guys on the roster but we don't have to carry 15.

So the situation is a bit different. Like you said though, Walker just took the only offer that was out there.

I think there's more talented players in the league than there is roster spots, so each year we're seeing some guys get squeezed out of a job.

Plus, every year there's 60+ guys (60 draft picks plus a bunch of UDFA) who enter the pool of players in the league but there's only like a handful of players who retire each season. Which is part of the reason why there's a surplus of players.

And the guys who get squeezed out of a job are often the Lonnie walker, Oshae Brissett, Saben Lee, Kabengele types. These guys who are 25 or older and have been in the league for a few years but seem to bounce around from team to team, as fringe players.

If you're 25+ and have been in the league for a few years, by that time you better have yourself a defined role in this league and have yourself a contract extension..otherwise you could be the next one squeezed out.

Teams prefer guys who are age 25+ vets who are a sure thing, you know what you're gonna get from them, they're a proven commodity. Otherwise, they prefer young kids with high upside they can try and develop on a cheap contract.

[phincsfan]

I had high hopes for quick results also. There's still 3 games left to see what he can offer, but to only get 4 and 7 minutes of garbage time is telling. He obviously took the only offer out there. Maybe he was hoping to be this years Svi, play with the big club, compete for a ring, get that experience for the resume and then sign a 4 year deal someplace else? if it was only that simple.

Well to be fair, we had a bunch of open roster spots last offseason. Brad went out and signed Brissett, Banton, Stevens and Svi..all made the team and even after they all got signed we were still at just 14 total players on the roster.

And you need to have at least 14 players on the roster. So Svi was essentially a shoe-in to make it.

It's a different situation for Walker, who got signed to an exhibit 10 after we already had 14 guys on the roster - and all 14 of them have guaranteed contracts.

We need 14 guys on the roster but we don't have to carry 15.

So the situation is a bit different. Like you said though, Walker just took the only offer that was out there.

I think there's more talented players in the league than there is roster spots, so each year we're seeing some guys get squeezed out of a job.

Plus, every year there's 60+ guys (60 draft picks plus a bunch of UDFA) who enter the pool of players in the league but there's only like a handful of players who retire each season. Which is part of the reason why there's a surplus of players.

And the guys who get squeezed out of a job are often the Lonnie walker, Oshae Brissett, Saben Lee, Kabengele types. These guys who are 25 or older and have been in the league for a few years but seem to bounce around from team to team, as fringe players.

If you're 25+ and have been in the league for a few years, by that time you better have yourself a defined role in this league and have yourself a contract extension..otherwise you could be the next one squeezed out.

Teams prefer guys who are age 25+ vets who are a sure thing, you know what you're gonna get from them, they're a proven commodity. Otherwise, they prefer young kids with high upside they can try and develop on a cheap contract.

Very good write up.

[Dogen]

Also with Lonnie, during the weekend games, he only showed what we already know: that he's willing to shoot (willing, but not able in the two games).

[31to6]

Lonnie Walker is trying to infuse his Brooklyn Nets DNA into our roster. I don't see it

[Tatumfor2]

Lonnie Walker is trying to infuse his Brooklyn Nets DNA into our roster. I don't see it

[ConstableGeneva]

Read on Twitter

Did he get the pink slip?

[Hal14]

Might mean that Brad just told him he's getting cut and going to Maine.

Or he's just giving himself some words of encouragement. JD tweeted something kind of like that last season (or maybe the year before that) and people on here thought it meant he was getting cut, but he is still here..

[ConstableGeneva]

[bigfoot_cryptozoology]

Seems like a very brief, Welcome to Boston,
more like, Hope you enjoy Portland,
if he sticks around...

[zoyathedestroya]

Read on Twitter

[Homerclease]

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=2r3K1qCL2UmIu9zb8OVdDw

Walker is closer to a 9th man than getting cut. He’s exactly what this team needs off the bench

[165bows]

I’ve been more towards a Lonnie skeptic (imo maybe more a realist) but I’m def rooting for him for sure. Good dude seems like and would be a really good find if he does hit.

[brackdan70]

Is Lonnie better than an open roster spot. That’s what he needs to prove.

I think he has a chance, but needs to prove it on D.
A part of me would rather that any minutes he would get go to Springer and Walsh…but I also I could see him winning some games with his scoring.
I am pretty torn, but good to have options.