homecourtloss wrote:Going to have some more time going forward—is it possible to join as a voter?
All set, thanks for finding the time.
2024 Retro Player of the Year Project UPDATE [Discussion Thread]
Moderators: trex_8063, penbeast0, PaulieWal, Clyde Frazier, Doctor MJ
Re: 2024 Retro Player of the Year Project UPDATE [Discussion Thread]
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AEnigma
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Re: 2024 Retro Player of the Year Project UPDATE [Discussion Thread]
All set, thanks for finding the time.
Re: 2024 Retro Player of the Year Project UPDATE [Discussion Thread]
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toodles23
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Re: 2024 Retro Player of the Year Project UPDATE [Discussion Thread]
homecourtloss wrote:Going to have some more time going forward—is it possible to join as a voter?
Same for me, I'd like to be added if possible.
Re: 2024 Retro Player of the Year Project UPDATE [Discussion Thread]
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AEnigma
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Re: 2024 Retro Player of the Year Project UPDATE [Discussion Thread]
toodles23 wrote:homecourtloss wrote:Going to have some more time going forward—is it possible to join as a voter?
Same for me, I'd like to be added if possible.
You got it.
Re: 2024 Retro Player of the Year Project UPDATE [Discussion Thread]
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trelos6
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Re: 2024 Retro Player of the Year Project UPDATE [Discussion Thread]
Looking forward to 73-74 when we get some more data.
Re: 2024 Retro Player of the Year Project UPDATE [Discussion Thread]
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Dutchball97
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Re: 2024 Retro Player of the Year Project UPDATE [Discussion Thread]
I was worried about what would happen to the level of discussion once we got to the mid 80s but having a thread locked because of Jordan bashing nearly a decade before MJ even enters the league is just sad.
Really hope people can keep their opinions in their votes going forward and not as personal attacks because someone is a little higher or lower on a player than you are.
Really hope people can keep their opinions in their votes going forward and not as personal attacks because someone is a little higher or lower on a player than you are.
Re: 2024 Retro Player of the Year Project UPDATE [Discussion Thread]
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OhayoKD
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Re: 2024 Retro Player of the Year Project UPDATE [Discussion Thread]
Not sure why their posts are getting deleted, and no one else seems to know either so I'll just do this myself and see if it changes anything.
Context:
In light of reoccurring issues with their computer and their phone, thestrongestgrainer200 asked for and received permission to prepare votes beforehand which someone else can then repost on the relevant voting threads. Since the site ate the post with all 9 ballots posted at once I'll try doing this bit by bit with spoiler tags so it's shorter
1984
—------------------------------------------------
1986
—------------------------------------------------
1988
If this also gets deleted then :shrug:
Context:
In light of reoccurring issues with their computer and their phone, thestrongestgrainer200 asked for and received permission to prepare votes beforehand which someone else can then repost on the relevant voting threads. Since the site ate the post with all 9 ballots posted at once I'll try doing this bit by bit with spoiler tags so it's shorter
1984
Spoiler:
—------------------------------------------------
1986
Spoiler:
—------------------------------------------------
1988
Spoiler:
If this also gets deleted then :shrug:
Re: 2024 Retro Player of the Year Project UPDATE [Discussion Thread]
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Dutchball97
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Re: 2024 Retro Player of the Year Project UPDATE [Discussion Thread]
OhayoKD wrote:Not sure why their posts are getting deleted, and no one else seems to know either so I'll just do this myself and see if it changes anything.
Context:
In light of reoccurring issues with their computer and their phone, thestrongestgrainer200 asked for and received permission to prepare votes beforehand which someone else can then repost on the relevant voting threads. Since the site ate the post with all 9 ballots posted at once I'll try doing this bit by bit with spoiler tags so it's shorter
1984Spoiler:
—------------------------------------------------
1986Spoiler:
—------------------------------------------------
1988Spoiler:
If this also gets deleted then :shrug:
I reported the comment because the 1976-77 thread just got locked for baiting and bashing and then we get this gem in the main thread, looks like the mods agreed with me on this one. Like I understand you and your new friend really, really want to make sure everyone knows Jordan was actually a bum but this is derailing the project. Like just about every single other thread in the last couple of years before it. Giving it an anime twist doesn't really change anything about it being low hanging bait.
Re: 2024 Retro Player of the Year Project UPDATE [Discussion Thread]
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OhayoKD
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Re: 2024 Retro Player of the Year Project UPDATE [Discussion Thread]
Dutchball97 wrote:OhayoKD wrote:Not sure why their posts are getting deleted, and no one else seems to know either so I'll just do this myself and see if it changes anything.
Context:
In light of reoccurring issues with their computer and their phone, thestrongestgrainer200 asked for and received permission to prepare votes beforehand which someone else can then repost on the relevant voting threads. Since the site ate the post with all 9 ballots posted at once I'll try doing this bit by bit with spoiler tags so it's shorter
1984Spoiler:
—------------------------------------------------
1986Spoiler:
—------------------------------------------------
1988Spoiler:
If this also gets deleted then :shrug:
I reported the comment because the 1976-77 thread just got locked for baiting and bashing and then we get this gem in the main thread, looks like the mods agreed with me on this one. Like I understand you and your new friend really, really want to make sure everyone knows Jordan was actually a bum but this is derailing the project. Like just about every single other thread in the last couple of years before it. Giving it an anime twist doesn't really change anything about it being low hanging bait.
Yes, Dutchball. Kola posting their ballot here at the project-runner's request was done in order to derail the project.
Re: 2024 Retro Player of the Year Project UPDATE [Discussion Thread]
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penbeast0
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Re: 2024 Retro Player of the Year Project UPDATE [Discussion Thread]
As I've told OhayoKD, I'm against posts from 3rd parties. We have bans, and protections against multiple postings from the same IP, etc. This attempts to circumvent them. If the person in question comes onto the site and posts, I'm fine with AEnigma allowing them to join the project. If they are banned from the site or someone is posting someone else's posts, you can quote them in your own posts as outside authority (fwiw) but otherwise, I wouldn't allow it if I was running the project.
About the personal attacks, everyone in the project knows or should know the Mod team's attitude about personal attacks. It's a quick shortcut to being suspended or banned, even if it's the project runner or another Mod. So, keep your posts about the opinion posted; don't start going off on the poster being stupid, or biased, or having said things in other threads.
About the personal attacks, everyone in the project knows or should know the Mod team's attitude about personal attacks. It's a quick shortcut to being suspended or banned, even if it's the project runner or another Mod. So, keep your posts about the opinion posted; don't start going off on the poster being stupid, or biased, or having said things in other threads.
“Most people use statistics like a drunk man uses a lamppost; more for support than illumination,” Andrew Lang.
Re: 2024 Retro Player of the Year Project UPDATE [Discussion Thread]
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OhayoKD
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Re: 2024 Retro Player of the Year Project UPDATE [Discussion Thread]
penbeast0 wrote:As I've told OhayoKD, I'm against posts from 3rd parties. We have bans, and protections against multiple postings from the same IP, etc. This attempts to circumvent them. If the person in question comes onto the site and posts,
FWIW, they did come and post with several witnesses including aenigma, on aenigma's request. That post is what Dutchball reported as bait...evidently because the ballots didn't place Jordan sufficiently high :/
I certainly hope that wasn't why the post was deleted
Re: 2024 Retro Player of the Year Project UPDATE [Discussion Thread]
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Dutchball97
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Re: 2024 Retro Player of the Year Project UPDATE [Discussion Thread]
OhayoKD wrote:penbeast0 wrote:As I've told OhayoKD, I'm against posts from 3rd parties. We have bans, and protections against multiple postings from the same IP, etc. This attempts to circumvent them. If the person in question comes onto the site and posts,
FWIW, they did come and post with several witnesses including aenigma, on aenigma's request. That post is what Dutchball reported as bait...evidently because the ballots didn't place Jordan sufficiently high :/
I certainly hope that wasn't why the post was deleted
It was a joke post that felt the need to mention MJ's "special ability" being unable to win without Pippen and Phil Jackson. My personal opinion of his low placings (Jordan not being 1st in 1991 is laughable whatever you say) doesn't factor into this.
I certainly hope this isn't going to continue from here on out or we can just end the project right here as every thread will end up locked anyhow.
Re: 2024 Retro Player of the Year Project UPDATE [Discussion Thread]
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AEnigma
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Re: 2024 Retro Player of the Year Project UPDATE [Discussion Thread]
Will confirm they reached out to me about posting ballots in advance and I said they should just do it here so people at least have the opportunity to engage with the ballots directly (which is the main reason I have limited third party posting). It is my understanding they are not currently banned; so long as that is true, I am not looking to intentionally discount ballots without good cause.
For example, personally disliking a ballot is not good cause for discounting a ballot, and doing so goes against the spirit of the project. Should go doubly true for reporting a ballot, if that is indeed what transpired here. If the intent is apparently to report any ballot not “properly” rating a favourite player, then I agree we are queued for major problems later in the project.
For example, personally disliking a ballot is not good cause for discounting a ballot, and doing so goes against the spirit of the project. Should go doubly true for reporting a ballot, if that is indeed what transpired here. If the intent is apparently to report any ballot not “properly” rating a favourite player, then I agree we are queued for major problems later in the project.
Re: 2024 Retro Player of the Year Project UPDATE [Discussion Thread]
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OhayoKD
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Re: 2024 Retro Player of the Year Project UPDATE [Discussion Thread]
Dutchball97 wrote:OhayoKD wrote:FWIW, they did come and post with several witnesses including aenigma, on aenigma's request. That post is what Dutchball reported as bait...evidently because the ballots didn't place Jordan sufficiently high :/
I certainly hope that wasn't why the post was deleted
It was a joke post that felt the need to mention MJ's "special ability" being unable to win without Pippen and Phil Jackson. My personal opinion of his low placings (Jordan not being 1st in 1991 is laughable whatever you say) doesn't factor into this.
I certainly hope this isn't going to continue from here on out or we can just end the project right here as every thread will end up locked anyhow.
You realize anyone can literally check the spoilers to see what the posts were? A joke was made at the expense of every player after breaking down their skills, how they translated in the playoffs, and how they thought various abilities shifted from season to season. You can agree or disagree but that is an amount of effort that has not been put towards the bulk of posts in this project.
You incorrectly assumed that them posting on request was maliciously timed based on another poster's posts a day prior. Idk why you're doubling down here.
Re: 2024 Retro Player of the Year Project UPDATE [Discussion Thread]
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Dutchball97
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Re: 2024 Retro Player of the Year Project UPDATE [Discussion Thread]
The "jokes" about Magic and Hakeem are both about how they could've beaten Jordan more often. I even said it wasn't about placings for me but how this post could be interpreted as anything different than trying to bait another shitthrowing discussion with Jordan as the center piece is beyond me. We're at 1977, Jordan is nowhere near the picture yet and this stuff has already gotten one thread locked. Call it tripling down but acting like any good can come of that is naive at best.
Re: 2024 Retro Player of the Year Project UPDATE [Discussion Thread]
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OhayoKD
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Re: 2024 Retro Player of the Year Project UPDATE [Discussion Thread]
Dutchball97 wrote:The "jokes" about Magic and Hakeem are both about how they could've beaten Jordan more often. I even said it wasn't about placings for me but how this post could be interpreted as anything different than trying to bait another shitthrowing discussion with Jordan as the center piece is beyond me.
I will reiterate, as the project runner has noted, those votes were posted here...because the project runner wanted them to be posted here for public record. If they didn't...this allegedly malicious bait attempt would not have been made. Your interpretation straight up doesn't make sense.
Re: 2024 Retro Player of the Year Project UPDATE [Discussion Thread]
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ceoofkobefans
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Re: 2024 Retro Player of the Year Project UPDATE [Discussion Thread]
AEnigma wrote:Will confirm they reached out to me about posting ballots in advance and I said they should just do it here so people at least have the opportunity to engage with the ballots directly (which is the main reason I have limited third party posting). It is my understanding they are not currently banned; so long as that is true, I am not looking to intentionally discount ballots without good cause.
For example, personally disliking a ballot is not good cause for discounting a ballot, and doing so goes against the spirit of the project. Should go doubly true for reporting a ballot, if that is indeed what transpired here. If the intent is apparently to report any ballot not “properly” rating a favourite player — and even if that were the standard, I fail to see how listing Jordan third in a season where he played less than 600 total minutes is somehow insufficiently complimentary… — then I agree we are queued for major problems later in the project.
Given she did everything she was supposed to do, her vote should count even if the above bs led to a ban
Re: 2024 Retro Player of the Year Project UPDATE [Discussion Thread]
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falcolombardi
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Re: 2024 Retro Player of the Year Project UPDATE [Discussion Thread]
I feel that if a vote fulfills the criteria for counting it would be wrong to ban it mid project, regardless of your view on the merits of it
Is kind of a conflict of interests too if mods can choose to throw away votes too casually because they deem it as bait if it didnt break any rule about the project
Is kind of a conflict of interests too if mods can choose to throw away votes too casually because they deem it as bait if it didnt break any rule about the project
Re: 2024 Retro Player of the Year Project UPDATE [Discussion Thread]
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Bad Gatorade
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Re: 2024 Retro Player of the Year Project UPDATE [Discussion Thread]
So, I haven't been able to contribute as of yet (life is a harsh mistress - nothing bad, mind you, just a lot of commitments from my end), but I've enjoyed reading up on everything so far.
Just taking a look at all of this and trying to piece it all together.
My understanding is something along the lines of -
* grainmaster200 has chosen to participate in the project (which was accepted)
* grainmaster200 has issues with technology at the moment, but has opted to pre-post ballots on here in an attempt to participate
* the preliminary ballots were reported and deleted
Even if pre-posting ballots is not the "ideal" methodology, as the discussion is less fruitful when there is minimal capacity for the sharing + back and forth that truly makes these projects an edifying experience, I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with pre-posting ballots (in event of technological downfall). As AEnigma is running the project, AEnigma should really be in charge of what is considered valid voting, no? Given that this is an isolated incident, and the vote seems to fulfil the criteria, I think it should stand.
Just taking a look at all of this and trying to piece it all together.
My understanding is something along the lines of -
* grainmaster200 has chosen to participate in the project (which was accepted)
* grainmaster200 has issues with technology at the moment, but has opted to pre-post ballots on here in an attempt to participate
* the preliminary ballots were reported and deleted
Even if pre-posting ballots is not the "ideal" methodology, as the discussion is less fruitful when there is minimal capacity for the sharing + back and forth that truly makes these projects an edifying experience, I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with pre-posting ballots (in event of technological downfall). As AEnigma is running the project, AEnigma should really be in charge of what is considered valid voting, no? Given that this is an isolated incident, and the vote seems to fulfil the criteria, I think it should stand.
I use a lot of parentheses when I post (it's a bad habit)
Re: 2024 Retro Player of the Year Project UPDATE [Discussion Thread]
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LA Bird
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Re: 2024 Retro Player of the Year Project UPDATE [Discussion Thread]
There is fundamentally nothing wrong with pre posting ballots. If this was a respectable poster like Doctor MJ submitting an early vote because he will be traveling, no one would complain even if his votes are different to theirs.
The question here is the poster who is a brand new gimmick account with zero history. Really, the strongest grain master? What's next, the last air bender?
The question here is the poster who is a brand new gimmick account with zero history. Really, the strongest grain master? What's next, the last air bender?
Re: 2024 Retro Player of the Year Project UPDATE [Discussion Thread]
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IlikeSHAIguys
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Re: 2024 Retro Player of the Year Project UPDATE [Discussion Thread]
Just gonna stop by and say. I've only seen one of thestrongrest grainers posts before this and i found it kind of tough to get my head around but
I still think it would be really messed up to not count their vote. I also don't want to throw hands or anything but I think its really really really lame to say someone's not respectable because they're new. If the votes posted were really theres those are actually pretty detailed player breakdowns and I dont think any of my votes were as good.
I do think its weird they didn't have like assist-getter as a bt but its actually kind of cool to see players just broken down in terms of abilities without all the rings talk and all that. Its also pretty bad if you can just get report people and get their votes removed or even banned because they're new or their usernames funny.
The votes are pretty cool. The project dude was cool with them. And I don't think they did anything to deserve their vote being deleted or worse. Its also sucks that people would go out of their way to attack them for nothing.
I still think it would be really messed up to not count their vote. I also don't want to throw hands or anything but I think its really really really lame to say someone's not respectable because they're new. If the votes posted were really theres those are actually pretty detailed player breakdowns and I dont think any of my votes were as good.
I do think its weird they didn't have like assist-getter as a bt but its actually kind of cool to see players just broken down in terms of abilities without all the rings talk and all that. Its also pretty bad if you can just get report people and get their votes removed or even banned because they're new or their usernames funny.
The votes are pretty cool. The project dude was cool with them. And I don't think they did anything to deserve their vote being deleted or worse. Its also sucks that people would go out of their way to attack them for nothing.