Postgame thread: Knicks @ Hornets

[DE FENSE]

I see a lot of Sims hate but I think he looks improved. 10 rebounds in 21 minutes is huge when we are so thin at the 4 and 5. He looks bigger too as Hahn said a couple of times.

[j4remi]

I see a lot of Sims hate but I think he looks improved. 10 rebounds in 21 minutes is huge when we are so thin at the 4 and 5. He looks bigger too as Hahn said a couple of times.

He and Precious have a weird synergy, where they're just big enough and just mobile enough to always have one of them in or around the action. I don't mind giving them a bit of time to see if they can become a formidable bench FC. The bench could play pretty damned fast and maybe make up for spacing issues with pace...if it flops, they can move on when Mitch gets back or make a final trade.

[Fury]

this team has had a fundamental sea change. it will not be able to operate as it did the last 2 years and will have to find it's identity. that will take time and who knows how it will turn out.

It's the first preseason game

The Knicks made big moves last year, in the middle of the year, and they were fine. It's not like the dudes they bought in demand the ball either.

[BadNewsBarnes]

Well. That was some sloppy bullshyt.

I knew we weren't gonna have the chemistry out of the gate. That is what we gave up most in this trade. Starting over with an offensive center is going to take time as well. If we could have had Mitch out there I think it might look closer to what we had. I also don't like Hart with the starters. Anyway.

Deuce is gonna take that leap we all hoped for. You can see he worked on things this summer.
Shamet looked decent. Nice depth piece.
Kolek is so damn tiny! He should play over Cam if he can keep this up.
Did Bridges play tonight?
OG looks fat.
KAT does things Randle could only dream of but, this is gonna take time.
Cam sucks.
Sims sucks.
Precious is Precious. Glad we kept him but, he's trade fodder most likely.

We literally have ONE player from the starting lineup last year. Brunson has to learn how to run an entire new lineup...again. I expect bumps and bruises. They also won't be playing the same way. Shart leaving and Mitch being hurt changed everything about the team. Let's see what Thibs can do with this squad. Leon still has some work to do though because we are thin and need a real backup 5. Sims ain't it and never will be anything more than trade filler.

Mitch sucks.

Calm down...it's a friggen pre-season game, not Game 4 of the playoffs...

[mpharris36]

this team has had a fundamental sea change. it will not be able to operate as it did the last 2 years and will have to find it's identity. that will take time and who knows how it will turn out.

I think that was going to happen trade or no trade...it would of been a little bit easier exchange offensively but still losing Ihart and Mitch being hurt was going to happen regardless so unless we specifically traded for a rim protecting shot blocking/offensive rebounding type big it probably would have looked different. You just can't wake up and replace that style of play.

It looks like we were smaller with KAT at 5 and OG at 4...but could you imagine how smaller we would have looked with Randle at the 5...I don't think we would have been able to survive. I think we would have had to start Sims until Mitch got back.

We are certainly going to have to play faster...switch more...get more steals and get out in transition. The physical grind it out style does not suit the current roster (but that was also kind of forced on there hand with Ihart leaving and Mitch hurt.

If/when Mitch gets back we can start him and go back to a more physical brand and have Hart come off the bench as a spark plug.

[F N 11]

this team has had a fundamental sea change. it will not be able to operate as it did the last 2 years and will have to find it's identity. that will take time and who knows how it will turn out.

We will take some hits defensively in the paint but we will be more explosive offensively. Need to see better rebounding from starters.

First time actually playing 5 out. This will take some time getting use to.

[Fury]

It's a shame that we had to give up DiVincenzo, and I know we had to, but if we kept him, I legitimately think we would have had the best team in the league.

[god shammgod]

this team has had a fundamental sea change. it will not be able to operate as it did the last 2 years and will have to find it's identity. that will take time and who knows how it will turn out.

I think that was going to happen trade or no trade...it would of been a little bit easier exchange offensively but still losing Ihart and Mitch being hurt was going to happen regardless so unless we specifically traded for a rim protecting shot blocking/offensive rebounding type big it probably would have looked different. You just can't wake up and replace that style of play.

It looks like we were smaller with KAT at 5 and OG at 4...but could you imagine how smaller we would have looked with Randle at the 5...I don't think we would have been able to survive. I think we would have had to start Sims until Mitch got back.

We are certainly going to have to play faster...switch more...get more steals and get out in transition. The physical grind it out style does not suit the current roster (but that was also kind of forced on there hand with Ihart leaving and Mitch hurt.

If/when Mitch gets back we can start him and go back to a more physical brand and have Hart come off the bench as a spark plug.

yeah sims would have started. he started 11 games last year and 16 the year before. they've survived with it for awhile. i'm not even saying if it's gonna be worse or better, it's just different. i have no idea why people are arguing against that idea.

the only guy who's role is the same is jalen and now he has mostly different teammates. og is the only other starter from last year and now he's the 4 and has to rebound and help defend the paint more. we're smaller as you point out. we were able to impose our physicality on teams before but we're not built for that now.

probably will take a month or 2 before we really know what this team is about.

[3toheadmelo]

this team has had a fundamental sea change. it will not be able to operate as it did the last 2 years and will have to find it's identity. that will take time and who knows how it will turn out.

I think that was going to happen trade or no trade...it would of been a little bit easier exchange offensively but still losing Ihart and Mitch being hurt was going to happen regardless so unless we specifically traded for a rim protecting shot blocking/offensive rebounding type big it probably would have looked different. You just can't wake up and replace that style of play.

It looks like we were smaller with KAT at 5 and OG at 4...but could you imagine how smaller we would have looked with Randle at the 5...I don't think we would have been able to survive. I think we would have had to start Sims until Mitch got back.

We are certainly going to have to play faster...switch more...get more steals and get out in transition. The physical grind it out style does not suit the current roster (but that was also kind of forced on there hand with Ihart leaving and Mitch hurt.

If/when Mitch gets back we can start him and go back to a more physical brand and have Hart come off the bench as a spark plug.

KAT is worse than Randle playing the 5.

Albeit a small sample size, the Knicks have done well with Randle at the five. Per Cleaning The Glass, the team’s efficiency differential is +6.0 with Randle at center. At power forward, it is +0.6. Going small also gives their offense a boost, as they average 112.2 points per 100 possessions, compared to 109.3. Guarding Randle would be a nightmare for opposing defenses, as he is quicker than every center in the league, forcing teams to either suffer with their big man or to go small.

While the biggest concern would be compromising defensively, Julius Randle has held his own. The Knicks actually allow fewer points per 100 possessions with Randle at Center. 106.2 versus 108.6.

[stuporman]

There is only one player left on the roster that Rose and Co hasn't brought in....Mitch....tick tock any moment now.

[FrozenEnvelope]

Watched a tiny bit of this (I HATE PRESEASON!) but good signs from the bench. We're going to need guys like Deuce, Shamet, Payne and Kolek to give us production and spacing.

[Knicksfan1992]

One pre-season game and i've already had enough Cam Payne for my Knicks fan lifetime

Yea, already want to see Kolek overtake him but it could take awhile. Kolek + Deuce off the bench will be really fun

I'm definitely being a bit dramatic . Payne is likely fine as a backup especially since defensively he's much better than Kolek. I just think Kolek is a much more refined and reliable offensive player even as just a rookie. I think the backup unit is going to need some offensive spark more than it needs what Cam Payne brings.

We saw a lot of reliance on Deuce for offense yesterday and while Deuce breaking out into a neutral to plus offensive creator would be ideal, I don't think it's something we can bank on as a contender. I think his game is more suited to a supporting offensive role who maybe takes the reigns a bit more offensively when he's got it going.

This is where my concern with the KAT trade comes into play. With Payne, Deuce and Donte you could have probably pieced together enough offense off the bench that you'd feel comfortable with on a night to night basis. Now i'm worried about some severe offensive droughts with pure bench units. Thibs will have to get creative with his rotations IMO to make this all work.

[mpharris36]

this team has had a fundamental sea change. it will not be able to operate as it did the last 2 years and will have to find it's identity. that will take time and who knows how it will turn out.

I think that was going to happen trade or no trade...it would of been a little bit easier exchange offensively but still losing Ihart and Mitch being hurt was going to happen regardless so unless we specifically traded for a rim protecting shot blocking/offensive rebounding type big it probably would have looked different. You just can't wake up and replace that style of play.

It looks like we were smaller with KAT at 5 and OG at 4...but could you imagine how smaller we would have looked with Randle at the 5...I don't think we would have been able to survive. I think we would have had to start Sims until Mitch got back.

We are certainly going to have to play faster...switch more...get more steals and get out in transition. The physical grind it out style does not suit the current roster (but that was also kind of forced on there hand with Ihart leaving and Mitch hurt.

If/when Mitch gets back we can start him and go back to a more physical brand and have Hart come off the bench as a spark plug.

yeah sims would have started. he started 11 games last year and 16 the year before. they've survived with it for awhile. i'm not even saying if it's gonna be worse or better, it's just different. i have no idea why people are arguing against that idea.

the only guy who's role is the same is jalen and now he has mostly different teammates. og is the only other starter from last year and now he's the 4 and has to rebound and help defend the paint more. we're smaller as you point out. we were able to impose our physicality on teams before but we're not built for that now.

probably will take a month or 2 before we really know what this team is about.

Its also different for Jalen as well I feel. He's got to make more PG "decisions". Last year was a lot of if we don't have anything Brunson or Randle will take a difficult shot but we have a bunch of guys crashing the glass and going for offensive rebounds.

Brunson has to make more reads and find open shooters this year. We are going from a bad EFF team that just survived on just firm volume of shots of the other team. Now we need to be more EFF so our shot selection needs to be better.

[Wildcat]

this team has had a fundamental sea change. it will not be able to operate as it did the last 2 years and will have to find it's identity. that will take time and who knows how it will turn out.

I think that was going to happen trade or no trade...it would of been a little bit easier exchange offensively but still losing Ihart and Mitch being hurt was going to happen regardless so unless we specifically traded for a rim protecting shot blocking/offensive rebounding type big it probably would have looked different. You just can't wake up and replace that style of play.

It looks like we were smaller with KAT at 5 and OG at 4...but could you imagine how smaller we would have looked with Randle at the 5...I don't think we would have been able to survive. I think we would have had to start Sims until Mitch got back.

We are certainly going to have to play faster...switch more...get more steals and get out in transition. The physical grind it out style does not suit the current roster (but that was also kind of forced on there hand with Ihart leaving and Mitch hurt.

If/when Mitch gets back we can start him and go back to a more physical brand and have Hart come off the bench as a spark plug.

Isn't this quite moot, though? Seeing the occasion minutes at the 5 isn't the same as starting at the 5.

I have heavy reservations on running OG at the 4. KAT/OG/Hart are not a strong rebounding tandem. Hart is going to get you more 50/50 balls without a doubt, but I really prefer Precious and KAT to start.

[JayTWill]

Dominican Bargnani was in full display last night smh. Also had just 4 rebounds and gave up 9 to Nick richards.

Read on Twitter

It's only the first game of the preseason. It took him a couple games into last year's preseason before he started to get going with 17 points, 3 assists, 4-8 from 3. He even showed lock down defense while holding his matchup to 7 points on 2-8 shooting.

https://videos.nba.com/nba/pbp/media/2023/10/14/0012300036/295/11bf7d27-6fa7-9950-83c8-ed4b4240153a_1280x720.mp4

[Context]

I just got back from Philly.. What did some of you say about Towns?

Watch on YouTube

excuse me?! Brunson to Towns
Lets go!!!!!

Towns drives to the rim

Appreciate the thought
Did you go the Mets game? You should’ve hollered at your boy. I would’ve treated you to a cheesesteak at Angelo’s.

I was at Live Wingo...I'm in Philly a lot- I will definitely reach out next time...Were you out there just for the game?
I was watching the game from the table- wild game.

[mpharris36]

this team has had a fundamental sea change. it will not be able to operate as it did the last 2 years and will have to find it's identity. that will take time and who knows how it will turn out.

I think that was going to happen trade or no trade...it would of been a little bit easier exchange offensively but still losing Ihart and Mitch being hurt was going to happen regardless so unless we specifically traded for a rim protecting shot blocking/offensive rebounding type big it probably would have looked different. You just can't wake up and replace that style of play.

It looks like we were smaller with KAT at 5 and OG at 4...but could you imagine how smaller we would have looked with Randle at the 5...I don't think we would have been able to survive. I think we would have had to start Sims until Mitch got back.

We are certainly going to have to play faster...switch more...get more steals and get out in transition. The physical grind it out style does not suit the current roster (but that was also kind of forced on there hand with Ihart leaving and Mitch hurt.

If/when Mitch gets back we can start him and go back to a more physical brand and have Hart come off the bench as a spark plug.

KAT is worse than Randle playing the 5.

Albeit a small sample size, the Knicks have done well with Randle at the five. Per Cleaning The Glass, the team’s efficiency differential is +6.0 with Randle at center. At power forward, it is +0.6. Going small also gives their offense a boost, as they average 112.2 points per 100 possessions, compared to 109.3. Guarding Randle would be a nightmare for opposing defenses, as he is quicker than every center in the league, forcing teams to either suffer with their big man or to go small.

While the biggest concern would be compromising defensively, Julius Randle has held his own. The Knicks actually allow fewer points per 100 possessions with Randle at Center. 106.2 versus 108.6.

The sample size of Randle playing the five is basically nothing. I would not hold onto that having any credibility. We weren't going to survive with a 6'8 non shot blocking guy playing a bunch of minutes at the 5...especially one that really doesn't care about playing much defense. Now I'm not also saying KAT is some big time defender...he is not. He is just bigger and the hope is that Thibs can make him at least passable on that end until at least Mitch comes back.

[WargamesX]

Dominican Bargnani was in full display last night smh. Also had just 4 rebounds and gave up 9 to Nick richards.

Read on Twitter

Come on man don’t call him Bargnani….. It makes me immediately dislike him.

[3toheadmelo]

I think that was going to happen trade or no trade...it would of been a little bit easier exchange offensively but still losing Ihart and Mitch being hurt was going to happen regardless so unless we specifically traded for a rim protecting shot blocking/offensive rebounding type big it probably would have looked different. You just can't wake up and replace that style of play.

It looks like we were smaller with KAT at 5 and OG at 4...but could you imagine how smaller we would have looked with Randle at the 5...I don't think we would have been able to survive. I think we would have had to start Sims until Mitch got back.

We are certainly going to have to play faster...switch more...get more steals and get out in transition. The physical grind it out style does not suit the current roster (but that was also kind of forced on there hand with Ihart leaving and Mitch hurt.

If/when Mitch gets back we can start him and go back to a more physical brand and have Hart come off the bench as a spark plug.

KAT is worse than Randle playing the 5.

Albeit a small sample size, the Knicks have done well with Randle at the five. Per Cleaning The Glass, the team’s efficiency differential is +6.0 with Randle at center. At power forward, it is +0.6. Going small also gives their offense a boost, as they average 112.2 points per 100 possessions, compared to 109.3. Guarding Randle would be a nightmare for opposing defenses, as he is quicker than every center in the league, forcing teams to either suffer with their big man or to go small.

While the biggest concern would be compromising defensively, Julius Randle has held his own. The Knicks actually allow fewer points per 100 possessions with Randle at Center. 106.2 versus 108.6.

The sample size of Randle playing the five is basically nothing. I would not hold onto that having any credibility. We weren't going to survive with a 6'8 non shot blocking guy playing a bunch of minutes at the 5...especially one that really doesn't care about playing much defense. Now I'm not also saying KAT is some big time defender...he is not. He is just bigger and the hope is that Thibs can make him at least passable on that end until at least Mitch comes back.

He also played center on the Lakers a lot. All I know is that KAT is disastrous defensively at C and makes Randle look like Mitch. That’s how bad he is.

[whocares1]

I think that was going to happen trade or no trade...it would of been a little bit easier exchange offensively but still losing Ihart and Mitch being hurt was going to happen regardless so unless we specifically traded for a rim protecting shot blocking/offensive rebounding type big it probably would have looked different. You just can't wake up and replace that style of play.

It looks like we were smaller with KAT at 5 and OG at 4...but could you imagine how smaller we would have looked with Randle at the 5...I don't think we would have been able to survive. I think we would have had to start Sims until Mitch got back.

We are certainly going to have to play faster...switch more...get more steals and get out in transition. The physical grind it out style does not suit the current roster (but that was also kind of forced on there hand with Ihart leaving and Mitch hurt.

If/when Mitch gets back we can start him and go back to a more physical brand and have Hart come off the bench as a spark plug.

yeah sims would have started. he started 11 games last year and 16 the year before. they've survived with it for awhile. i'm not even saying if it's gonna be worse or better, it's just different. i have no idea why people are arguing against that idea.

the only guy who's role is the same is jalen and now he has mostly different teammates. og is the only other starter from last year and now he's the 4 and has to rebound and help defend the paint more. we're smaller as you point out. we were able to impose our physicality on teams before but we're not built for that now.

probably will take a month or 2 before we really know what this team is about.

Its also different for Jalen as well I feel. He's got to make more PG "decisions". Last year was a lot of if we don't have anything Brunson or Randle will take a difficult shot but we have a bunch of guys crashing the glass and going for offensive rebounds.

Brunson has to make more reads and find open shooters this year. We are going from a bad EFF team that just survived on just firm volume of shots of the other team. Now we need to be more EFF so our shot selection needs to be better.

Part of being a point guard is delegating when to give up the ball tho. Towns and him don’t have chemistry yet but just like with Hartenstein, that bond will grow over the season. The thing is tho that if Towns misses two open threes in a row sometimes Brunson not passing him the ball isn’t “missing Towns” it’s using the spacing and threat of a Towns three, so that JB gets the spacing he needs to create for himself too. So the last thing I’m worried about is Brunson making point guard reads.