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Postgame thread: Knicks @ Hornets

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Re: Postgame thread: Knicks @ Hornets 

Post#261 » by 3toheadmelo » Mon Oct 7, 2024 4:42 pm

god shammgod wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:
god shammgod wrote:actually the fans weren't happy with the everybody shoot 3s, no defense trend over the last few years and so the league purposely instructed the refs to allow a lot more physicality in the game halfway through the year last year and that will be the advantage teams will have to exploit now. one we had and lost. that's what will be what's important in the game now.

I think it's gonna take longer than 30 days for people to admit KAT doesnt work at the 5 :lol:


because it's such a new group of guys it will be easy to write off as unfamiliarity for awhile. so you'll be able to argue either way. :lol:

I have a feeling they gonna use that unfamilarity excuse until March :lol:
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Re: Postgame thread: Knicks @ Hornets 

Post#262 » by Fat Kat » Mon Oct 7, 2024 4:43 pm

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Re: Postgame thread: Knicks @ Hornets 

Post#263 » by thebuzzardman » Mon Oct 7, 2024 4:44 pm

cgmw wrote:I realize this board traded Mitch a long time ago, but last I checked he’s still on the roster and figures to play 24-30 mpg for the second half of the season including playoffs. Rim protection is not an issue.

Your 9-man playoff rotation is:

Mitch
KAT | Precious (or Shamet)
OG | Hart
Bridges | Deuce
Brunson | Cam (or Kolek)


Everyone has traded him because they know Swamp Slacker isn't ever going to be ready this year
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Re: Postgame thread: Knicks @ Hornets 

Post#264 » by thebuzzardman » Mon Oct 7, 2024 4:45 pm

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Re: Postgame thread: Knicks @ Hornets 

Post#265 » by Fat Kat » Mon Oct 7, 2024 4:45 pm

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Re: Postgame thread: Knicks @ Hornets 

Post#266 » by stuporman » Mon Oct 7, 2024 4:45 pm

thebuzzardman wrote:
NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:Is it too early for me to start calling for Kolek to be in the rotation or nah? I'm itching to overreact




That's not an overreaction, I've seen people say he's Mark Price. Step your game up.


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Re: Postgame thread: Knicks @ Hornets 

Post#267 » by 3toheadmelo » Mon Oct 7, 2024 4:47 pm

Chanel Bomber wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:
Chanel Bomber wrote:They never had talent besides that one year with Jimmy where he got hurt - they were the 3rd seed in the West for most of the season. Unless you believe Wiggins and D'Lo are a formidable supporting cast. All the data suggests that KAT was elevating the team despite his defensive limitations and that its the supporting cast around him that was hurting them.

Which data show that he was elevating the team in the playoffs?
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These are lineup stats. Have to put them into the context of lineups and team performance. Any player whose team gets smoked in the playoffs due to a general lack of talent will tend to have a negative net rating.

But I was referring to the totality of each season, not narrowing down to the playoffs.

You have to narrow it down to the playoffs because that's where it all matters. We all hate Randle cause of his playoffs right? But KAT has been a negative every year at the 5.

I even posted the on and off numbers, lineups with Towns on and Rudy off, it's just not a good look for KAT. There's really no data that favor KAT at the 5 defensively or show that it helps their team.
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Re: Postgame thread: Knicks @ Hornets 

Post#268 » by MrDollarBills » Mon Oct 7, 2024 4:47 pm

stuporman wrote:
thebuzzardman wrote:
NoDopeOnSundays wrote:


That's not an overreaction, I've seen people say he's Mark Price. Step your game up.


Mark Dollar store Price


Comparing Kolek to Mark Price is kinda racist now that I think about it :o

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Re: Postgame thread: Knicks @ Hornets 

Post#269 » by Buttah304 » Mon Oct 7, 2024 4:47 pm

Good to see RealAgenda is alive again after the summer

Genuinely loathe the doom & gloom opinions along with the groundhogs day bait style postings

Can’t wait for the season to start

Also screw this guy

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Re: Postgame thread: Knicks @ Hornets 

Post#270 » by Chanel Bomber » Mon Oct 7, 2024 4:48 pm

3toheadmelo wrote:
Chanel Bomber wrote:
god shammgod wrote:this team has had a fundamental sea change. it will not be able to operate as it did the last 2 years and will have to find it's identity. that will take time and who knows how it will turn out.

The identity was defense and offensive rebounding i.e., Mitch and iHart (and to a lesser extent Josh Hart).

They couldn't keep iHart.

Mitch's recovery isn't going as planned and he likely won't play until January or February.

That was the sea change.

Flipping Randle for KAT has no effect on that identit. Randle didn't defend and his impact on the offensive board was meager and inconsequential.

KAT averaged 1.5 offensive RPG per game last season, Randle averaged 2.2 offensve RPG last season.

Even with Randle's struggles in the playoffs, he was still a net positive in the 2023 post season. So even with his bad defense and bricking shots on one ankle, he still had a positive impact on the team. You can get away with Randle's defense. You historically can't with KAT.

They had a comparable offensive rebounding rate last season. Neither player impacts the game on the offensive glass. That was the point.

Randle had the worst impact metric scores on the team with RJ in the 2023 playoffs. Yes he had an excuse but he was awful pretty much across the board, especially in the Miami series. Stop the Randle propaganda man, your boy is gone there's no need :lol:
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Re: Postgame thread: Knicks @ Hornets 

Post#271 » by stuporman » Mon Oct 7, 2024 4:50 pm

MrDollarBills wrote:
stuporman wrote:
thebuzzardman wrote:
Mark Dollar store Price


Comparing Kolek to Mark Price is kinda racist now that I think about it :o

I'm not trying to get canceled before the season begins


I called him Vanilla Brunson so I think I'm safe... :lol:
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Re: Postgame thread: Knicks @ Hornets 

Post#272 » by NoDopeOnSundays » Mon Oct 7, 2024 4:52 pm

3toheadmelo wrote:
NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:
That was the year Brunson played extremely bad for them. A lot of Mavs fans didn't want to extend him just because how awful he was that year in the playoffs. Then he got way better :lol:

It's not even only net ratings, its the on and off numbers and DEF rating that show they were worse with him playing C. Hell even just this past season it still was a disaster for them.


We got past the 1st round with Randle. Timberwolves never did with KAT until they brought in Gobert.

Feels like we're going in circles about this. All I can say is that last night, KAT did nothing to calm my fears about his defense. It's just 1 preseason game though, so we'll see if it gets better.



Jalen's net rating goes to show that it doesn't mean everything, he was virtually unplayable against the Clippers, and it's part of the reason they let him walk. Even when he helped them get to the WCF he wasn't some huge positive, and even our most recent playoffs he was neutral.

We got past the first round because of Brunson being our best player, not because of Randle, nothing in Town's jacket is as bad as that Hawks series too. I don't see the concerns, we still have Walking Boot on the team, we're going to evaluate whether or not KAT can do it, and if he can't Walking Boot will play next to him against big teams. Maybe the way to beating the Celtics is having a mix of big and smallball, KAT gives us the option that wasn't there before.

It doesn't mean everything, but it's a pretty good indicator of who helped their team more. But like I said, there's more than just net ratings. I've even posted the on and off ratings, DEF ratings, points per possessions with KAT at the 5.. etc.

The Timberwolves couldn't get past the 1st round with Butler as their best player just because of how disastrous KAT was at the 5. So it doesn't really matter who's the Timberwolves best player. The key factor is him playing the 5.

I hear what you saying about us having more options with KAT, but I just don't think it will work based on the years of data we have. Would gladly love to be proven wrong though. I thought Donte was an overpay based on his previous performances in the playoffs before he became Knick and he ended up being a bit better than I thought he would be (although he was still streaky af). Maybe KAT does the same thing.




The Wolves couldn't win with Jimmy because they were going against the 65-17 Rockets, the team that took the KD Warriors to 7, in that series KAT had the best DRTG of the starters, their issue was that they couldn't score, he was net negative because their offense was atrocious. That also needs to be pointed out, when he was first coached by Tom he wasn't really shooting threes like that, in that series against the Rockets he took a total of 11 over 5 games. Tom used him more like a traditional C and not the guy we're getting.

I don't think we're going to be top 5 defensively, but I'm thinking top 10 isn't some stretch based on who we have on the wings. The data on the last time he played the 5 with the Wolves had them in the playoffs as the 13th best defense.
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Re: Postgame thread: Knicks @ Hornets 

Post#273 » by stuporman » Mon Oct 7, 2024 4:53 pm

I'm sorry but a player trying to be a fashion icon that winds up wearing the puffy suit is epic fail
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Re: Postgame thread: Knicks @ Hornets 

Post#274 » by 3toheadmelo » Mon Oct 7, 2024 4:53 pm

Chanel Bomber wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:
Chanel Bomber wrote:The identity was defense and offensive rebounding i.e., Mitch and iHart (and to a lesser extent Josh Hart).

They couldn't keep iHart.

Mitch's recovery isn't going as planned and he likely won't play until January or February.

That was the sea change.

Flipping Randle for KAT has no effect on that identit. Randle didn't defend and his impact on the offensive board was meager and inconsequential.

KAT averaged 1.5 offensive RPG per game last season, Randle averaged 2.2 offensve RPG last season.

Even with Randle's struggles in the playoffs, he was still a net positive in the 2023 post season. So even with his bad defense and bricking shots on one ankle, he still had a positive impact on the team. You can get away with Randle's defense. You historically can't with KAT.

They had a comparable offensive rebounding rate last season. Neither player impacts the game on the offensive glass. That was the point.

Randle had the worst impact metric scores on the team with RJ in the 2023 playoffs. Yes he had an excuse but he was awful pretty much across the board, especially in the Miami series. Stop the Randle propaganda man, your boy is gone there's no need :lol:

So if KAT doesn't address offensive rebounding and interior defense, it sounds like he does nothing to make up for the losses of Mitch and ihart :lol:

The metrics show Randle was a positive in the Miami series actually :lol: but I'll keep it as that chahell!
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Re: Postgame thread: Knicks @ Hornets 

Post#275 » by Fat Kat » Mon Oct 7, 2024 4:55 pm

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Re: Postgame thread: Knicks @ Hornets 

Post#276 » by Moose » Mon Oct 7, 2024 4:56 pm

Until Mitch comes back and shows he's the same player (or better), I think the starting lineup should be:

Towns
Precious
OG
Mikal
Brunson

And you take Mikal out at the 6-7 minute mark then out him back in at around the 3 minute mark to run the second unit. And then you can close the 4th with him, assuming it makes sense.

Sort of like that RJ role, except better.
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Re: Postgame thread: Knicks @ Hornets 

Post#277 » by Iron Mantis » Mon Oct 7, 2024 4:56 pm

3toheadmelo wrote:
Capn'O wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:Dominican Bargnani was in full display last night smh. Also had just 4 rebounds and gave up 9 to Nick richards.
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:blank:

It's fair game if Iron and other people gonna keep trolling about Randle for no reason. Aint nobody was talking about him until Iron and his crew hopped in :lol:


Bashing KAT won't bring Randle back.
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Re: Postgame thread: Knicks @ Hornets 

Post#278 » by vincccent » Mon Oct 7, 2024 5:01 pm

Buttah304 wrote:Good to see RealAgenda is alive again after the summer

Genuinely loathe the doom & gloom opinions along with the groundhogs day bait style postings

Can’t wait for the season to start

Also screw this guy

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Re: Postgame thread: Knicks @ Hornets 

Post#279 » by jvsimonetti0514 » Mon Oct 7, 2024 5:04 pm

Chanel Bomber wrote:
god shammgod wrote:this team has had a fundamental sea change. it will not be able to operate as it did the last 2 years and will have to find it's identity. that will take time and who knows how it will turn out.

The identity was defense and offensive rebounding i.e., Mitch and iHart (and to a lesser extent Josh Hart).

They couldn't keep iHart.

Mitch's recovery isn't going as planned and he likely won't play until January or February.

That was the sea change.

Flipping Randle for KAT has no effect on that identit. Randle didn't defend and his impact on the offensive board was meager and inconsequential.


More specifically toughness, effort, and physicality was our identity over the last few season and that was more than just Mitch and Ihart. You’re underselling how important Donte, Hart, and Randle were. Randle’s was only on offense but shouldn’t be downplayed. Playing bully ball and beating up defenders wears teams out. There was probably enough of those intangibles here to keep that identity without Ihart and Mitch but we will never know now. Maybe it was just Randle’s contract situation but with the reporting that they were trying to make this move all summer says a little something about them willing to move on from that play style. Trying to hedge by keeping Donte but Mitch’s setback forced their hand.

TLDR: the front office wanted more finesse.
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Re: Postgame thread: Knicks @ Hornets 

Post#280 » by 3toheadmelo » Mon Oct 7, 2024 5:06 pm

NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:
NoDopeOnSundays wrote:

Jalen's net rating goes to show that it doesn't mean everything, he was virtually unplayable against the Clippers, and it's part of the reason they let him walk. Even when he helped them get to the WCF he wasn't some huge positive, and even our most recent playoffs he was neutral.

We got past the first round because of Brunson being our best player, not because of Randle, nothing in Town's jacket is as bad as that Hawks series too. I don't see the concerns, we still have Walking Boot on the team, we're going to evaluate whether or not KAT can do it, and if he can't Walking Boot will play next to him against big teams. Maybe the way to beating the Celtics is having a mix of big and smallball, KAT gives us the option that wasn't there before.

It doesn't mean everything, but it's a pretty good indicator of who helped their team more. But like I said, there's more than just net ratings. I've even posted the on and off ratings, DEF ratings, points per possessions with KAT at the 5.. etc.

The Timberwolves couldn't get past the 1st round with Butler as their best player just because of how disastrous KAT was at the 5. So it doesn't really matter who's the Timberwolves best player. The key factor is him playing the 5.

I hear what you saying about us having more options with KAT, but I just don't think it will work based on the years of data we have. Would gladly love to be proven wrong though. I thought Donte was an overpay based on his previous performances in the playoffs before he became Knick and he ended up being a bit better than I thought he would be (although he was still streaky af). Maybe KAT does the same thing.




The Wolves couldn't win with Jimmy because they were going against the 65-17 Rockets, the team that took the KD Warriors to 7, in that series KAT had the best DRTG of the starters, their issue was that they couldn't score, he was net negative because their offense was atrocious. That also needs to be pointed out, when he was first coached by Tom he wasn't really shooting threes like that, in that series against the Rockets he took a total of 11 over 5 games. Tom used him more like a traditional C and not the guy we're getting.

I don't think we're going to be top 5 defensively, but I'm thinking top 10 isn't some stretch based on who we have on the wings. The data on the last time he played the 5 with the Wolves had them in the playoffs as the 13th best defense.

It wasn't just the offense that held them back in that series though, it was KAT's terrible defense.

According to the tracking numbers at Synergy Sports, Towns is giving up an average of 1.036 points per possession as a pick-and-roll defender on 56 plays in the playoffs, putting him in the 18th percentile among players in the postseason.


They tried to play small ball in the series with Butler at the 4 and KAT at the 5 and offensively it was great, but defensively they were awful.
According to NBA.com/Stats, lineups where Towns is the only big man on the floor have an eye-popping offensive rating of 113.7 in 27 minutes in the series. The problem is that they have an equally gruesome defensive rating of 120.0.


We gonna need a top 5-10 defense if we want to compete with Boston. 13th best defense is far behind from Boston.
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