Rudy Gobert on people questioning his 4 DPOY awards: "Show me who should've won in those years"

[cupcakesnake]

Sure I'll play:

2018: Anthony Davis (dude was robbed that year and not even close too)
2019: Giannis Antetokounmpo (close but I give the edge to Giannis that season.)
2021: Rudy Gobert (this one he actually fully deserved it)
2024: Anthony Davis (again. Lakers defense is literally nothing without him. They would have given up 130 points a game otherwise.)

In the 32% of the minutes AD wasn't on the floor. Teams scored a whole 1.8 points per 100 more. Like...this is just beyond silly.

There is no evidence of a defensive carry-job by AD in the 2024 regular season.
I'm fine with the belief that AD is the most versatile (and most valuable) defender in the world once you get into the playoffs, but anyone who tries to push the narrative like he's balling out of his mind on defense in the regular season simply has no ground to stand on.

The Lakers were a middling defense with AD on the floor, and a middling defense with AD off the floor. There was almost no difference, and a difference is pretty necessary to get a carry-job narrative going. The difference is probably bigger than the stats paint it, since the shooting luck doesn't favor him (opponents shot 3.5% better from 3 with AD on the floor), but we're talking about the difference between almost nothing and a little more than that.

AD is still an awesome defender no matter what, but if we're just going off 2024 regular season performance, I feel strongly there were a lot of players doing more heavy lifting on defense than AD was.

I agree with 2018 though in so far as Rudy should not have won it. Gobert played on 56 games and they basically gave it to him by default since no one else took over the narrative. I would have been fine with AD winning it that year, even though New Orleans was pretty meh on defense despite having a healthy Jrue (though those 2 propped up a lot of offense-only players). That year was weird because Draymond's Warriors played uninspired defense, Kawhi missed basically the whole season, and Rudy was the only brand name playing on a good defensive team.

[dhsilv2]

Sure I'll play:

2018: Anthony Davis (dude was robbed that year and not even close too)
2019: Giannis Antetokounmpo (close but I give the edge to Giannis that season.)
2021: Rudy Gobert (this one he actually fully deserved it)
2024: Anthony Davis (again. Lakers defense is literally nothing without him. They would have given up 130 points a game otherwise.)

In the 32% of the minutes AD wasn't on the floor. Teams scored a whole 1.8 points per 100 more. Like...this is just beyond silly.

There is no evidence of a defensive carry-job by AD in the 2024 regular season.
I'm fine with the belief that AD is the most versatile (and most valuable) defender in the world once you get into the playoffs, but anyone who tries to push the narrative like he's balling out of his mind on defense in the regular season simply has no ground to stand on.

The Lakers were a middling defense with AD on the floor, and a middling defense with AD off the floor. There was almost no difference, and a difference is pretty necessary to get a carry-job narrative going. The difference is probably bigger than the stats paint it, since the shooting luck doesn't favor him (opponents shot 3.5% better from 3 with AD on the floor), but we're talking about the difference between almost nothing and a little more than that.

AD is still an awesome defender no matter what, but if we're just going off 2024 regular season performance, I feel strongly there were a lot of players doing more heavy lifting on defense than AD was.

I agree with 2018 though in so far as Rudy should not have won it. Gobert played on 56 games and they basically gave it to him by default since no one else took over the narrative. I would have been fine with AD winning it that year, even though New Orleans was pretty meh on defense despite having a healthy Jrue (though those 2 propped up a lot of offense-only players). That year was weird because Draymond's Warriors played uninspired defense, Kawhi missed basically the whole season, and Rudy was the only brand name playing on a good defensive team.

Yeah, I generally don't see the arguments for AD over a Dray or Gobert. That said I guess 2018 being a weak year...why not. Though the metrics we do have paint Gobert pretty darn dominate in his limited minutes. I'd have liked a big more discussion on Covington back then, but whatever.

2024 however is just wild when people are coming with arguments that the lakers would fall off a cliff defensively without AD. But...we have a huge number of minutes to look at. And they didn't.

I don't know why AD can't be a high quality defender who isn't at that DPOY apex but he's in the next tier. That's great and I'll given grant people his versatility and the playoffs might make more worth more money. But he wasn't robbed. Certainly wasn't last year.

[cupcakesnake]

In the 32% of the minutes AD wasn't on the floor. Teams scored a whole 1.8 points per 100 more. Like...this is just beyond silly.

There is no evidence of a defensive carry-job by AD in the 2024 regular season.
I'm fine with the belief that AD is the most versatile (and most valuable) defender in the world once you get into the playoffs, but anyone who tries to push the narrative like he's balling out of his mind on defense in the regular season simply has no ground to stand on.

The Lakers were a middling defense with AD on the floor, and a middling defense with AD off the floor. There was almost no difference, and a difference is pretty necessary to get a carry-job narrative going. The difference is probably bigger than the stats paint it, since the shooting luck doesn't favor him (opponents shot 3.5% better from 3 with AD on the floor), but we're talking about the difference between almost nothing and a little more than that.

AD is still an awesome defender no matter what, but if we're just going off 2024 regular season performance, I feel strongly there were a lot of players doing more heavy lifting on defense than AD was.

I agree with 2018 though in so far as Rudy should not have won it. Gobert played on 56 games and they basically gave it to him by default since no one else took over the narrative. I would have been fine with AD winning it that year, even though New Orleans was pretty meh on defense despite having a healthy Jrue (though those 2 propped up a lot of offense-only players). That year was weird because Draymond's Warriors played uninspired defense, Kawhi missed basically the whole season, and Rudy was the only brand name playing on a good defensive team.

Yeah, I generally don't see the arguments for AD over a Dray or Gobert. That said I guess 2018 being a weak year...why not. Though the metrics we do have paint Gobert pretty darn dominate in his limited minutes. I'd have liked a big more discussion on Covington back then, but whatever.

2024 however is just wild when people are coming with arguments that the lakers would fall off a cliff defensively without AD. But...we have a huge number of minutes to look at. And they didn't.

I don't know why AD can't be a high quality defender who isn't at that DPOY apex but he's in the next tier. That's great and I'll given grant people his versatility and the playoffs might make more worth more money. But he wasn't robbed. Certainly wasn't last year.

Covington was also a name I thought of that year. I think people were always confused by a wing defender who did most of his impact through help defense. People heard of the crazy numbers, but then tune in and watch him getting blown by on a switch. Eventually Covington becomes the poster boy for understanding why help defense is exponentially more valuable than man defense, but lots of people were still coming around to that in 2018. He still made 1st team all-defense that year ahead of Draymond and Horford though.

[og15]

anytime there is a criticism of said players there is a banter and blaming of his teammates who cover for his flaws in other ways.

I assume by this statement you're talking about his offense, yeah? I think everyone knows Gobert is an extremely limited offensive player. Anyone I've seen stick up for his offense is usually saying it's not as bad as someone else is saying. Everyone knows he has no ball skills. He's limited to screening, cutting, and post seals. He's smart and giant, but his hands are meh, and his lower body strength isn't good enough to seal a wide variety of defenders. Extremely limited offensive player, who at best can be seen as someone who can be productive in a small role next to better offensive players.

I mentioned not being a Gobert fan, but I was a Ben Wallace fan. He's someone even more limited offensively (worst hands ever, zero shooting touch, can't hit free throws, undersized, weird wrist problem), but I'd be telling anyone who would listen than Ben Wallace was a sneaky smart passer, and a really good lob threat who could be okay offensively if used correctly alongside the right players.

The thing is... no one really seemed to care about Ben's awful offense the way they care about Rudy's less awful offense. It was forgiveable for Ben in a way Rudy haters have never been okay with. Part of that is era related. Plenty of early 2000s teams played defensive specialists who did next to nothing on offense. Those players aren't viable in the 2020s so Rudy sticks out more maybe. I think the bigger reason is simply: Ben Wallace was cool af, and Rudy is a goober that irritates people. People want Rudy to be bad because they don't like him. So it's annoying for you when basketball analysts explain why he's not as bad as you think.

I really think this quoted part is a big reason, and you know what, let's just say it and move on instead of mixing it with basketball ability.

I think Rudy has some annoyingness to him too. That said, if we're talking about players skills, impact and ability, their gooberness doesn't come into play for me, since we're not talking about favorite players. If we're talking about favorite players, or guys I would want on my team, then yes, those things are going to become a factor.

[dhsilv2]

There is no evidence of a defensive carry-job by AD in the 2024 regular season.
I'm fine with the belief that AD is the most versatile (and most valuable) defender in the world once you get into the playoffs, but anyone who tries to push the narrative like he's balling out of his mind on defense in the regular season simply has no ground to stand on.

The Lakers were a middling defense with AD on the floor, and a middling defense with AD off the floor. There was almost no difference, and a difference is pretty necessary to get a carry-job narrative going. The difference is probably bigger than the stats paint it, since the shooting luck doesn't favor him (opponents shot 3.5% better from 3 with AD on the floor), but we're talking about the difference between almost nothing and a little more than that.

AD is still an awesome defender no matter what, but if we're just going off 2024 regular season performance, I feel strongly there were a lot of players doing more heavy lifting on defense than AD was.

I agree with 2018 though in so far as Rudy should not have won it. Gobert played on 56 games and they basically gave it to him by default since no one else took over the narrative. I would have been fine with AD winning it that year, even though New Orleans was pretty meh on defense despite having a healthy Jrue (though those 2 propped up a lot of offense-only players). That year was weird because Draymond's Warriors played uninspired defense, Kawhi missed basically the whole season, and Rudy was the only brand name playing on a good defensive team.

Yeah, I generally don't see the arguments for AD over a Dray or Gobert. That said I guess 2018 being a weak year...why not. Though the metrics we do have paint Gobert pretty darn dominate in his limited minutes. I'd have liked a big more discussion on Covington back then, but whatever.

2024 however is just wild when people are coming with arguments that the lakers would fall off a cliff defensively without AD. But...we have a huge number of minutes to look at. And they didn't.

I don't know why AD can't be a high quality defender who isn't at that DPOY apex but he's in the next tier. That's great and I'll given grant people his versatility and the playoffs might make more worth more money. But he wasn't robbed. Certainly wasn't last year.

Covington was also a name I thought of that year. I think people were always confused by a wing defender who did most of his impact through help defense. People heard of the crazy numbers, but then tune in and watch him getting blown by on a switch. Eventually Covington becomes the poster boy for understanding why help defense is exponentially more valuable than man defense, but lots of people were still coming around to that in 2018. He still made 1st team all-defense that year ahead of Draymond and Horford though.

Off ball defense is so easy imo to see. But just completely ignored by basketball commentators. Now to be fair, I understand why a fan only sees the POA failure and is mislead, but if the TV guys would just spend a few minutes talking about defensive systems we'd have much better discussions.

[Capn'O]

I'm pretty torn on Gobert. He's not wrong a lot of the time but he does seem kinda insufferable.

Gobert is the Roy Hibbert of this generation except he's being grossly overpaid and lauded with trophies.

Probably because he's significantly better than Hibbert at every phase of the game.

They do both have "bert" in their last name and their first names both start with "R" and end in "y" so maybe that's what that poster meant.

[og15]

I'm pretty torn on Gobert. He's not wrong a lot of the time but he does seem kinda insufferable.

Gobert is the Roy Hibbert of this generation except he's being grossly overpaid and lauded with trophies.

Probably because he's significantly better than Hibbert at every phase of the game.

They do both have "bert" in their last name and their first names both end in "y" so maybe that's what that poster meant.

And both their first names start with R, this is crazy!!

Rudy - Roy
Gobert - Hibbert

Wow!

[Capn'O]

I'm pretty torn on Gobert. He's not wrong a lot of the time but he does seem kinda insufferable.

Probably because he's significantly better than Hibbert at every phase of the game.

They do both have "bert" in their last name and their first names both end in "y" so maybe that's what that poster meant.

And both their first names start with R, this is crazy!!

Rudy - Roy
Gobert - Hibbert

Wow!

Edited my post to include these startling new developments.

[Homer38]

Sure I'll play:

2018: Anthony Davis (dude was robbed that year and not even close too)
2019: Giannis Antetokounmpo (close but I give the edge to Giannis that season.)
2021: Rudy Gobert (this one he actually fully deserved it)
2024: Anthony Davis (again. Lakers defense is literally nothing without him. They would have given up 130 points a game otherwise.)

In the 32% of the minutes AD wasn't on the floor. Teams scored a whole 1.8 points per 100 more. Like...this is just beyond silly.

What about the defensive rating of the lakers in the game that AD was out?

[Mogspan]

I'm pretty torn on Gobert. He's not wrong a lot of the time but he does seem kinda insufferable.

Based on what?

Not coming at you in particular, but I’ve seen this take multiple times. I can understand calling Draymond Green insufferable. I can understand calling LeBron James, Kevin Durant, Luka Dončić, or even Steph Curry insufferable. I can see it. But Rudy Gobert?

What’s he said or done that’s remotely controversial or off-putting besides the COVID fiasco (which admittedly was inadvisable as hell, but he atoned for it)? He has a funny name and a smug face?

Do people know what insufferable means?

[HMFFL]

Great rim protector but problem he is unplayable in some matchup...

That's the case for the majority of the NBA.

Sent from my SM-S928U1 using RealGM mobile app

[phanman]

I love that Rudy is taking this stance. It's about damn time he stuck up for himself and take pride in his accomplishments. His biggest issue is that these "analysts" and opposing players seem to forget the basis of why an award is given. It is a regular season award, so all of the handful of mismatches in the playoffs that recycle on social media have no barring on who is most deserving. In fact, in every year that he won DPOY, it was a landslide in his favor with his team also finishing 2nd, 2nd, 4th and 1st in DRTG.

His biggest attribute defensively is how great he is as a help defender to help mask any issues his team has with the POA or just generally on the perimeter. There is a reason why Snyder game planned his entire defensive philosophy around his players funnelling defenders into Rudy.

Also, for some reason I think his inability to dominate as a 7ft behemoth on offense has somehow influenced his ability to play defense. That plus Jokic and Embiid routinely BBQ his team and KAT had to the primary defender in that Nuggets matchup doesn't help either. Just because he struggles against his ATG center counterparts (everybody does) doesn't mean he isn't a great defender.

[Klomp]

Also, for some reason I think his inability to dominate as a 7ft behemoth on offense has somehow influenced his ability to play defense. That plus Jokic and Embiid routinely BBQ his team and KAT had to the primary defender in that Nuggets matchup doesn't help either. Just because he struggles against his ATG center counterparts (everybody does) doesn't mean he isn't a great defender.

That actually speaks to the overall impact of Gobert's defense, if people would take a second and actually watch and understand the game instead of resorting to click-baity hot take garbage on TNT and ESPN.

[Sixers in 4]

When Mutumbo played he made half or less than the max. I think that is what people are reacting to I don't care whether he should have won DPOY because even if he shouldn't put him 2nd not much of a difference really. I would contend of course Embiid would have won multiple DPOY of the year awards if he got to play offense like Gobert and when Gobert exerts so little effort offensively he essentially "saving" himself for the defensive end well that it's sort of unfair to measure his contributions to two way stars like BAM and Embiid.

The problem most people have and I do with Gobert is his contract and what the wolves gave up to trade him. He makes more than most centers. Maybe that isn't fair but I don't see how you can construct a championship roster paying Gobert 45m and him being your 2nd star.

[Klomp]

When Mutumbo played he made half or less than the max.

That is definitely not correct. He was like Top 10 in the league in yearly salary for like a solid decade.

But this is definitely the argument many people come to over and over, and it's a simple lack of comprehension of basic NBA economics.

[Sixers in 4]

When Mutumbo played he made half or less than the max.

That is definitely not correct. He was like Top 10 in the league in yearly salary for like a solid decade.

But this is definitely the argument many people come to over and over, and it's a simple lack of comprehension of basic NBA economics.

I am pretty sure he was making like half of what Shaq was if memory serves.

[SomeBunghole]

I am pretty sure he was making like half of what Shaq was if memory serves.

The memory clearly doesn't serve.

Deke made 8 million in 96/97, Shaq made 10.7 million. Deke made 17.7 million in 03/04, Shaq made 24.7.

And obviously, the CBA was very different 25 or 35 years ago. Hell, there wasn't a max until 1999. Jordan made 7-8 times mora than Malone the years the Jazz and the Bulls faced off in the finals. Larry Johnson and Shawn Kemp were getting 10+ year deals in the 90s.

[Triple7]

Wemby should have gotten it. Multiple games with 5 blocks and 5 steals while playing under 30mins. Wemby strikes fear in the paint. The spurs were a top defensive team with him inside, and at the bottom when he doesn’t play. Its not his fault his team sucks. They just don’t want to give it to a rookie. Gobert wqs even unplayeable in the playoffs getting targetted. What a joke.

Wemby will win it next year, but the beginning of the year when Wemby wasn’t as good counts also.

Also, Gobert wasn’t unplayable in the playoffs. He was phenomenal against the Suns and Nuggets, and the Timberwolves won the minutes he was on the floor against the Mavs.

Lol NO!
Wtf cares about next year??? For all we know he could be injured next year for a significant games and not win it again. Wemby was a force in the defensive end at the get go. I had Gobert on fantasy ball, and there are games he can’t even block a damn shot. If Wemby was good enough for 1st team all defense, then he should have been good enough to win the award. Media **** this up overhyping Gobert and the Wolves. Funny thing was, wolves doesnt lose a step on defense when Gobert isn’t playing. Guards and wing players are scared **** to attack inside with Wemby in there. I have seen guards disrespecting Gobert inside, and doing the too small sign. Sorry, Gobert is good defensively, but not that great to get 4 DPOY awards. 2 would have been enough.

[Jables]

what numbers? defensive stats are a joke

I always disliked the Mutombo comparisons, he made finals on a purely defensive team, that was when a post defender was most important and it passed the eye test, Gobert just guards space and his achievement is finally losing a playoff series without being complete ****. So he can't talk about receipts as if he didn't disappoint nearly every year of his career.

[Johnny Bball]

Isn't there always going to be a team that smallball's/stretches Gobert off the floor or out of a series?

Nobody questions he's good at what he does, what they question is that he can't do what is necessary against the best teams. He's DPOY against probably 26 of 29 teams, and he is kind of a liability against 2 or 3 when it matters. And it's mostly because he can't put up points/take advantage vs those that can play smallball or stretch him to the perimeter.

It is a regular season award. But lots of fans don't agree that he should be the DPOY when teams can do that to him.