The Donte "Big Ragu" DiVincenzo Thread

[Colbinii]

For the sentimental types:

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He really does "Have that Dog" in him

[Colbinii]

I knew DDV was signed to a team friendly deal, but it's ridiculously team friendly. We got him for the next three seasons starting at $11.5M and ending at $12.5M. I'm guessing he would get double that at minimum as a free agent. Probably more.
Here's the Spotrac link.
https://www.spotrac.com/nba/player/_/id/26983/donte-divincenzo

John Hollinger has him as a $29 Million/Year player. That's 2.5x his salary

[winforlose]

I think that an underrated part of DDV presence is that McDaniels, Edwards and NAW can now take turns and don't guard opponent best perimeter player like 100% time. Sometimes they both need like 5-10 minutes to catch the break, meanwhile our coaching can give opponent another look. The latest example was Kyrie who looked unstoppable against us: both Edwards and NAW were injured, Edwards was carrying offense and looked exhausted. IMO Kyrie despite being relatively small is very physical. He gave Conley, NAW and even Edwards issues. Beal posted up Conley and NAW with easy. DDV can help here with 10-15 minutes of PoA defense.

Overall our depth is impressive. Not only quantity, but quality.

P.S. DDV trade is particularly for those fans, who were concerned about our PG depth. TC got your back.

I like Big Ragu, but his value is not enough to cover the huge bridge between KAT and Randle.

Randle and Towns are to completely different players to start with. So I think it makes little sense to compare them directly, because this trade has so many other factors. For instance, Towns played 2983 minutes in last two seasons. Anderson played 3739 minutes. Who and how will replace Anderson minutes? My answer it will be Randle and Ingles and they are levels above Anderson in this role, especially with DDV addition.

I am a bit lost here. KA played SF a lot last year. Those minutes are easy to replace with NAW or TSJ. Naz has become a PF and could in theory start next to Rudy and play 30+ minutes a game. Are you then suggesting moving Randle to the bench? We lack a backup C. Are you gonna play Garza real minutes or are you gonna use Randle in that role? Randle seems to be the starting PF and backup C like KAT. DDV seems to be the backup PG.

[minimus]

I like Big Ragu, but his value is not enough to cover the huge bridge between KAT and Randle.

Randle and Towns are to completely different players to start with. So I think it makes little sense to compare them directly, because this trade has so many other factors. For instance, Towns played 2983 minutes in last two seasons. Anderson played 3739 minutes. Who and how will replace Anderson minutes? My answer it will be Randle and Ingles and they are levels above Anderson in this role, especially with DDV addition.

I am a bit lost here. KA played SF a lot last year. Those minutes are easy to replace with NAW or TSJ. Naz has become a PF and could in theory start next to Rudy and play 30+ minutes a game. Are you then suggesting moving Randle to the bench? We lack a backup C. Are you gonna play Garza real minutes or are you gonna use Randle in that role? Randle seems to be the starting PF and backup C like KAT. DDV seems to be the backup PG.

Coach plays players (talent)+role, not position. It is was already reported that Finch is going to start Randle. Its obvious that Reid and DDV will be first of the bench.

KA role was a facilitator from the bench. Randle can fill this role as well as anybody. DDV was part of NYK three guard rotation without classic pass first PG, and all three guards moved the ball. I guess Finch will ask Randle, DDV and NAW to share backup PG responsibility. But I believe it really should a natural solution based on players skills.

[Colbinii]

Randle and Towns are to completely different players to start with. So I think it makes little sense to compare them directly, because this trade has so many other factors. For instance, Towns played 2983 minutes in last two seasons. Anderson played 3739 minutes. Who and how will replace Anderson minutes? My answer it will be Randle and Ingles and they are levels above Anderson in this role, especially with DDV addition.

I am a bit lost here. KA played SF a lot last year. Those minutes are easy to replace with NAW or TSJ. Naz has become a PF and could in theory start next to Rudy and play 30+ minutes a game. Are you then suggesting moving Randle to the bench? We lack a backup C. Are you gonna play Garza real minutes or are you gonna use Randle in that role? Randle seems to be the starting PF and backup C like KAT. DDV seems to be the backup PG.

Coach plays players (talent)+role, not position. It is was already reported that Finch is going to start Randle. Its obvious that Reid and DDV will be first of the bench.

Yeah, the entire NBA plays role, not position. Positions are from 2005 and are long dead.

Size and Skill are king and finding players who fill roles [Shooters, Playmakers, Connectors, Rim Protectors, POA Defenders, Rim Pressure, ect] is how everyone here should be thinking about how a rotation works.

Randle fills multiple roles, which is why he was an All-Star and multiple All-NBA player. He is a good playmaker. He is a good scorer. He is strong and provides rim pressure. He can utilize his strength to defend larger players [See how he could replicate lots of what Towns did on Jokic since defending Jokic requires strength].

KAT filled multiple roles, which is why he was an All-Star and All-NBA player. He can shoot, he can be a playmaker, he can switch defensively.

KA was a facilitator/playmaker, connector and both a POA defender and switchable defender who could legitimately defend 1-5.

So, when we lose Towns, we need to fill in his role(s). We need shooting, we need playmaking, and we need some level of switch ability. Randle fills in the playmaking and switch ability. Randle also happens to fill in KA's role of playmaking. DDV fills in for the shooting lost. Then, you can look at Ingles who fills a similar connector and playmaking role as KA while providing shooting like Towns [KA couldn't shoot].

I find it important to understand that line-ups may change and rotations will change when replacing KA/Towns/Monte with Ingles/Shannon/Randle/DDV. I expect Randle, not Edwards, to lead the 2nd unit. Why? Because his skill-set makes more sense with it, especially next to Naz.

Do people realize how seamless the fit is of Randle/Naz on the 2nd unit? That line-up is going to destroy teams. NAW/Donte/Ingles/Randle/Naz is going to be incredible in terms of spacing, two ELITE POA defenders in NAW/Donte. Sprinkle in some TSJ for Ingles and all of a sudden it becomes very athletic, good size and the spacing helps out the lack of playmaking next to Randle, but still allows Randle and TSJ to both play bully-ball.

Obviously winforlose has been one of the most pessimistic wolves fan on this board over the past few years. I don't blame them, they want to win a title and assess every move/player/coaching decision with "Championship or Bust" mentality. I'm much more optimistic about our coach, talent level [both top end and depth] on the roster and future outlooks [high-end prospect like Dilly, who was a Top 3 prospect for me in this draft].

[winforlose]

I am a bit lost here. KA played SF a lot last year. Those minutes are easy to replace with NAW or TSJ. Naz has become a PF and could in theory start next to Rudy and play 30+ minutes a game. Are you then suggesting moving Randle to the bench? We lack a backup C. Are you gonna play Garza real minutes or are you gonna use Randle in that role? Randle seems to be the starting PF and backup C like KAT. DDV seems to be the backup PG.

Coach plays players (talent)+role, not position. It is was already reported that Finch is going to start Randle. Its obvious that Reid and DDV will be first of the bench.

Yeah, the entire NBA plays role, not position. Positions are from 2005 and are long dead.

Size and Skill are king and finding players who fill roles [Shooters, Playmakers, Connectors, Rim Protectors, POA Defenders, Rim Pressure, ect] is how everyone here should be thinking about how a rotation works.

Randle fills multiple roles, which is why he was an All-Star and multiple All-NBA player. He is a good playmaker. He is a good scorer. He is strong and provides rim pressure. He can utilize his strength to defend larger players [See how he could replicate lots of what Towns did on Jokic since defending Jokic requires strength].

KAT filled multiple roles, which is why he was an All-Star and All-NBA player. He can shoot, he can be a playmaker, he can switch defensively.

KA was a facilitator/playmaker, connector and both a POA defender and switchable defender who could legitimately defend 1-5.

So, when we lose Towns, we need to fill in his role(s). We need shooting, we need playmaking, and we need some level of switch ability. Randle fills in the playmaking and switch ability. Randle also happens to fill in KA's role of playmaking. DDV fills in for the shooting lost. Then, you can look at Ingles who fills a similar connector and playmaking role as KA while providing shooting like Towns [KA couldn't shoot].

I find it important to understand that line-ups may change and rotations will change when replacing KA/Towns/Monte with Ingles/Shannon/Randle/DDV. I expect Randle, not Edwards, to lead the 2nd unit. Why? Because his skill-set makes more sense with it, especially next to Naz.

Do people realize how seamless the fit is of Randle/Naz on the 2nd unit? That line-up is going to destroy teams. NAW/Donte/Ingles/Randle/Naz is going to be incredible in terms of spacing, two ELITE POA defenders in NAW/Donte. Sprinkle in some TSJ for Ingles and all of a sudden it becomes very athletic, good size and the spacing helps out the lack of playmaking next to Randle, but still allows Randle and TSJ to both play bully-ball.

Obviously winforlose has been one of the most pessimistic wolves fan on this board over the past few years. I don't blame them, they want to win a title and assess every move/player/coaching decision with "Championship or Bust" mentality. I'm much more optimistic about our coach, talent level [both top end and depth] on the roster and future outlooks [high-end prospect like Dilly, who was a Top 3 prospect for me in this draft].

Position-less basketball is more about offense than defense. For example, JO trying to guard PFs like Brandon Ingram. Small ball is another example of this. Sometimes a team is so efficient on offense and so crafty on defense they can handle the size differential. But most of the time it leads to a huge rebound differential and forces mismatches that require doubles which create open shots (especially corner 3s.) look at how smaller teams struggled with us all of last year. We have very few big body players who can defend other teams big body players.

[KGdaBom]

I like Big Ragu, but his value is not enough to cover the huge bridge between KAT and Randle.

Randle and Towns are to completely different players to start with. So I think it makes little sense to compare them directly, because this trade has so many other factors. For instance, Towns played 2983 minutes in last two seasons. Anderson played 3739 minutes. Who and how will replace Anderson minutes? My answer it will be Randle and Ingles and they are levels above Anderson in this role, especially with DDV addition.

I am a bit lost here. KA played SF a lot last year. Those minutes are easy to replace with NAW or TSJ. Naz has become a PF and could in theory start next to Rudy and play 30+ minutes a game. Are you then suggesting moving Randle to the bench? We lack a backup C. Are you gonna play Garza real minutes or are you gonna use Randle in that role? Randle seems to be the starting PF and backup C like KAT. DDV seems to be the backup PG.

Bad teams have shooting guards as their backup PGs.

[Klomp]

What if Donte ends up as our "PG" of the future? He's no Rubio out there, but he seems to have high BBIQ and can make smart reads.

Watch on YouTube

[FrenchMinnyFan]

I'm pretty sure DDV will play PG at some part of the game. He will take some min from Mike when necessary and i see them also play together sometimes when Ant rest. RD will probably have 10 min/ night but probably not all games. DDV is a smart player and i'm sure he can be a good playmaker.

[Colbinii]

What if Donte ends up as our "PG" of the future? He's no Rubio out there, but he seems to have high BBIQ and can make smart reads.

Watch on YouTube

It all depends on the playmaking development of ANT.

[TimberKat]

What if Donte ends up as our "PG" of the future? He's no Rubio out there, but he seems to have high BBIQ and can make smart reads.

Watch on YouTube

It all depends on the playmaking development of ANT.

It's not much of a future. He is actually only one year younger than Towns and last year was his breakout year. He reminds me of Luke Ridnour but a little taller. He isn't going to create shots for other players. Ideally the 3rd guard in a 3 guard rotation.

[Worm Guts]

What if Donte ends up as our "PG" of the future? He's no Rubio out there, but he seems to have high BBIQ and can make smart reads.

Watch on YouTube

It all depends on the playmaking development of ANT.

It's not much of a future. He is actually only one year younger than Towns and last year was his breakout year. He reminds me of Luke Ridnour but a little taller. He isn't going to create shots for other players. Ideally the 3rd guard in a 3 guard rotation.

He’s a lot more dynamic than Luke Ridnour, I don’t think that’s a great comparison.

[Colbinii]

What if Donte ends up as our "PG" of the future? He's no Rubio out there, but he seems to have high BBIQ and can make smart reads.

Watch on YouTube

It all depends on the playmaking development of ANT.

It's not much of a future. He is actually only one year younger than Towns and last year was his breakout year. He reminds me of Luke Ridnour but a little taller. He isn't going to create shots for other players. Ideally the 3rd guard in a 3 guard rotation.

Sure, but you aren't really replying or addressing my post, so I am a bit confused why you quoted me?

[TimberKat]

It all depends on the playmaking development of ANT.

It's not much of a future. He is actually only one year younger than Towns and last year was his breakout year. He reminds me of Luke Ridnour but a little taller. He isn't going to create shots for other players. Ideally the 3rd guard in a 3 guard rotation.

Sure, but you aren't really replying or addressing my post, so I am a bit confused why you quoted me?

I was more following the initial - what if Donte could be the point guard of the future. At the same time, I really don't see Ant at point. A good comparison would be Lakers with Kobe, Fisher, and Harper (Donte). Even if Ant turns into MJ good in passing and Harper maybe considered the PG but that Bulls team had others who passed the ball. I just don't see we play that way

[Klomp]

What is a barometer for a true PG? How many assists does someone need to average in order to be considered a true PG?

Note: Before you answer that question, keep in mind that Mike Conley has NEVER averaged 7.0 assists per game in his career.

[Colbinii]

It's not much of a future. He is actually only one year younger than Towns and last year was his breakout year. He reminds me of Luke Ridnour but a little taller. He isn't going to create shots for other players. Ideally the 3rd guard in a 3 guard rotation.

Sure, but you aren't really replying or addressing my post, so I am a bit confused why you quoted me?

I was more following the initial - what if Donte could be the point guard of the future. At the same time, I really don't see Ant at point. A good comparison would be Lakers with Kobe, Fisher, and Harper (Donte). Even if Ant turns into MJ good in passing and Harper maybe considered the PG but that Bulls team had others who passed the ball. I just don't see we play that way

ANT isn't really far off from MJ at the moment. Jordan wasn't some heliocentric ball-hanlder or passer. He played with good spacing next to better passers [See Pippen].

You are also discounting Randle, who is a good playmaker/passer.

[Colbinii]

What is a barometer for a true PG? How many assists does someone need to average in order to be considered a true PG?

Note: Before you answer that question, keep in mind that Mike Conley has NEVER averaged 7.0 assists per game in his career.

I think Point Guard is a 2000's term and long gone. A team needs a primary and secondary ball-handlers/playmakers.

Jamal Murray, for example, is a "point guard" by label, but he is every bit in the mold of a "shooting guard" if using 2000's terms. There is no way Jamal Murray would be seen as a Point Guard if not for playing off Big Honey.

When thinking about having a primary/secondary ball-handler/playmaker, I think ANT is comfortably in the "2nd best on a team" category, but has the ceiling to be the best primary ball-hanlder on a title team. With ANT though, his caliber of playmaking/passing does require stronger secondary playmakers next to himself.

I'm a big fan of having a larger POA defender as PGOF [NAW/Donte] for example.

[Klomp]

Look at the defending champs. I don't think either Jrue Holiday or Derrick White have ever been your traditional PG, yet they gave the Celtics exactly what they needed.

[Colbinii]

Look at the defending champs. I don't think either Jrue Holiday or Derrick White have ever been your traditional PG, yet they gave the Celtics exactly what they needed.

Traditional PG died in the 2000s.

[KGdaBom]

Look at the defending champs. I don't think either Jrue Holiday or Derrick White have ever been your traditional PG, yet they gave the Celtics exactly what they needed.

Traditional PG died in the 2000s.

Let's call it primary facilitator now. Whatever you want to call it it still exists.