Identity crisis?
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Re: Identity crisis?
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               coachEmily
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Re: Identity crisis?
I think we'll score more PPG this season, more athletic because Randle is a better penetrator and fastbreaker, and DiV makes up for losing KAT's threes.
But our identity will still be the best defense in the NBA!
            
                                    
                                    
                        But our identity will still be the best defense in the NBA!
Re: Identity crisis?
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               minimus
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Re: Identity crisis?


I thought pick-n-pop option will be completely abandoned after Towns trade. But It looks like Reid can shoot in such situations as well. I am speaking about volume of such actions.
Between Reid and DDV Gobert will have enough spacing, trust me.
Re: Identity crisis?
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               minimus
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Re: Identity crisis?
Is Randle-Reid-TJ-Edwards-DDV our best small ball lineup?
            
                                    
                                    
                        Re: Identity crisis?
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               Klomp
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Re: Identity crisis?
minimus wrote:Donte attempted 705 threes last season. In 2021-22 season when MIN offense ranked first in January, two things happened:
- Beasley attempted 637 threes coming of the bench
- MIN ranked first in NBA in threes attempts
If we speak about "Three Body problem" I think TC has just added such a strong perimeter shooting gravity, that might be essential to resolve "Three Body problem". Both Randle and Edwards can get deep into the paint, while DDV will be ready to shoot all threes.
2020-21 Beasley: 15.3 3-point attempts per 100 possessions (.377)
2023-24 DiVincenzo: 15.1 3-point attempts per 100 possessions (.401)
tsherkin wrote:The important thing to take away here is that Klomp is wrong.
Esohny wrote:Why are you asking Klomp? "He's" actually a bot that posts random blurbs from a database.
Klomp wrote:I'm putting the tired in retired mod at the moment
Re: Identity crisis?
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               Klomp
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Re: Identity crisis?
I think it's important to differentiate between KAT's perception and his actual production.
We say that by going from Towns to Randle we are losing 3-point shooting...what we are really losing is efficiency. Randle still gets 3-point shots off, at basically the same rate as Towns if not more often. Defenses have to respect the shot. If they play off of him like Draymond or Slow-Mo, he will attack the rim or put up the shot. If you play up too close, he will drive by you.
We all want to think of KAT as someone taking eight 3s a game, but that hasn't really been his game.
            
                                    
                                    We say that by going from Towns to Randle we are losing 3-point shooting...what we are really losing is efficiency. Randle still gets 3-point shots off, at basically the same rate as Towns if not more often. Defenses have to respect the shot. If they play off of him like Draymond or Slow-Mo, he will attack the rim or put up the shot. If you play up too close, he will drive by you.
We all want to think of KAT as someone taking eight 3s a game, but that hasn't really been his game.
tsherkin wrote:The important thing to take away here is that Klomp is wrong.
Esohny wrote:Why are you asking Klomp? "He's" actually a bot that posts random blurbs from a database.
Klomp wrote:I'm putting the tired in retired mod at the moment
Identity crisis?
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               minimus
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Identity crisis?
Klomp wrote:I think it's important to differentiate between KAT's perception and his actual production.
We say that by going from Towns to Randle we are losing 3-point shooting...what we are really losing is efficiency. Randle still gets 3-point shots off, at basically the same rate as Towns if not more often. Defenses have to respect the shot. If they play off of him like Draymond or Slow-Mo, he will attack the rim or put up the shot. If you play up too close, he will drive by you.
We all want to think of KAT as someone taking eight 3s a game, but that hasn't really been his game.
It is also about location of such shots.
Towns operating from top of the key often pushed Edwards to play more on the wings. Now I except Edwards, Conley, Reid and Donte to take full control of shots from above the break.
Identity crisis?
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               minimus
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Identity crisis?
One thing that can really make MIN offense is transition game.
I dont fully agree with a statement, I'd say that team offense/defense is PRE-defined by your TRANSITION philosophy.
Let me explain: MIN most dangerous play for Towns in transition was Trailer, when he was basically last in transition and shot threes when opponent defense line was too low. This action is epitome of our transition offense, because:
- Towns at PF is one of the slowest stretch fours
- Towns-Gobert is one of the slowest froncourts in the league
- neither Towns nor Gobert can grab-and-go in fastbreak
- Towns is our best shooter, but he is not a wing or guard to run in transition and fill corners
Now TC has added Randle, DDV and TJ. Here are list of things that MIGHT change in our transition offense:
First, is whole new level of matchup hunting and attacking defense that is not set:
- Randle can grab-and-go and initiate fastbreaks
- Randle is actually a natural aggressive scorer in the paint, he can play through contact he knows how to explore favourable matchups. It means that he can explore ANY early cross match created by "simply"running hard and fast
Second, three point shooting. Three point shooting and transition offense ALWAYS comes hand to hand. Without 3pt shooter willing to take a three, semi transition opportunities often becomes a wasted money:
- DDV is our best 3pt shooter, he will have plenty of opportunities to rain threes transition. He can pull up from above the break, he can fill corners. But DDV brings more than only elite shooting
Finally, I mentioned only Randle and DDV as main actors. Because Randle can rebound, dribble and pass. DDV is also a pretty solid rebounder for guard, he is an elite shooter and can pass AND he one of the top NBA players in hustle stats, for instance in deflections (3.0), for reference Alex Caruso had 3.7 deflection per game last season. Plus we already have Reid who can rebound, dribble, loves attacking of the catch, we have TJ who might be our best wing in transition, and obviously Edwards, McDaniels and NAW. I even think that Gobert can benefit from it as well. I can see here a big potential or better, change of mentality.
P.S. I think that especially young players can benefit from it. I am thinking about Jaylen Clarke when he will blow up his first opponent DHO and MIN will start fastbreak with TJ
            
                                    
                                    
                        I dont fully agree with a statement, I'd say that team offense/defense is PRE-defined by your TRANSITION philosophy.
Let me explain: MIN most dangerous play for Towns in transition was Trailer, when he was basically last in transition and shot threes when opponent defense line was too low. This action is epitome of our transition offense, because:
- Towns at PF is one of the slowest stretch fours
- Towns-Gobert is one of the slowest froncourts in the league
- neither Towns nor Gobert can grab-and-go in fastbreak
- Towns is our best shooter, but he is not a wing or guard to run in transition and fill corners
Now TC has added Randle, DDV and TJ. Here are list of things that MIGHT change in our transition offense:
First, is whole new level of matchup hunting and attacking defense that is not set:
- Randle can grab-and-go and initiate fastbreaks
- Randle is actually a natural aggressive scorer in the paint, he can play through contact he knows how to explore favourable matchups. It means that he can explore ANY early cross match created by "simply"running hard and fast
Second, three point shooting. Three point shooting and transition offense ALWAYS comes hand to hand. Without 3pt shooter willing to take a three, semi transition opportunities often becomes a wasted money:
- DDV is our best 3pt shooter, he will have plenty of opportunities to rain threes transition. He can pull up from above the break, he can fill corners. But DDV brings more than only elite shooting
Finally, I mentioned only Randle and DDV as main actors. Because Randle can rebound, dribble and pass. DDV is also a pretty solid rebounder for guard, he is an elite shooter and can pass AND he one of the top NBA players in hustle stats, for instance in deflections (3.0), for reference Alex Caruso had 3.7 deflection per game last season. Plus we already have Reid who can rebound, dribble, loves attacking of the catch, we have TJ who might be our best wing in transition, and obviously Edwards, McDaniels and NAW. I even think that Gobert can benefit from it as well. I can see here a big potential or better, change of mentality.
P.S. I think that especially young players can benefit from it. I am thinking about Jaylen Clarke when he will blow up his first opponent DHO and MIN will start fastbreak with TJ
Re: Identity crisis?
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               minimus
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Re: Identity crisis?
Another big room to improve is offensive rebounding to the point it becomes part of your identity. Towns was often on perimeter and was not in position to fight for offensive rebounds. Also when Towns shot threes and missed rebounds were long, Randle is different, he likes to attack the paint which makes easier to follow own misses. 
Also because of Towns and Gobert duo could be exposed in transition defense, often MIN rather than fight for offensive rebounds preferred to get back in transition early.
Once McDaniels started to crash offensive board in playoff series vs PHO, it resulted in huge bust in offense. I dont think the main problem is size, I feel like many of these rebounds are result of hustle, effort and physicality. I think NYK players have consistently proved it. Sure we dont have a unique player such as Hart, but Randle, DDV, NAW, McDaniels, TJ all can impact our offense in this way.
Transition offense, offensive rebounds and more shooting are key points to improve MIN offense.
            
                                    
                                    
                        Also because of Towns and Gobert duo could be exposed in transition defense, often MIN rather than fight for offensive rebounds preferred to get back in transition early.
Once McDaniels started to crash offensive board in playoff series vs PHO, it resulted in huge bust in offense. I dont think the main problem is size, I feel like many of these rebounds are result of hustle, effort and physicality. I think NYK players have consistently proved it. Sure we dont have a unique player such as Hart, but Randle, DDV, NAW, McDaniels, TJ all can impact our offense in this way.
Transition offense, offensive rebounds and more shooting are key points to improve MIN offense.
Re: Identity crisis?
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               minimus
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Re: Identity crisis?
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               Klomp
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Re: Identity crisis?
Fits both Randle and DiVincenzo, not so much Towns.
Edwards, McDaniels, Reid, Alexander-Walker, Shannon, Conley, Clark, etc. fit this as well.
tsherkin wrote:The important thing to take away here is that Klomp is wrong.
Esohny wrote:Why are you asking Klomp? "He's" actually a bot that posts random blurbs from a database.
Klomp wrote:I'm putting the tired in retired mod at the moment
Re: Identity crisis?
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               minimus
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Re: Identity crisis?
Klomp wrote:
Fits both Randle and DiVincenzo, not so much Towns.
Edwards, McDaniels, Reid, Alexander-Walker, Shannon, Conley, Clark, etc. fit this as well.
+ Nix
Re: Identity crisis?
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               minimus
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Re: Identity crisis?
Klomp wrote:
Fits both Randle and DiVincenzo, not so much Towns.
Edwards, McDaniels, Reid, Alexander-Walker, Shannon, Conley, Clark, etc. fit this as well.
The more I think about it, the more I like this definition. One of glaring weaknesses of this team last season was recognising and exploring matchups. "Hit and hit first" put emphasis on punishing opponents in favourable for MIN matchups. For instance, attack injured Doncic in playoffs. Here is an excellent example of such mentality KP performance in game 1 of Finals. When he single handily destroyed DAL in postup by exploring mismatches and hit two threes in the face of defenders.
IMO it is perfect encapsulation of what MIN want to achieve:
- punish smaller opponents (KP first victim was injured Doncic)
- hit more threes
With regard to threes there is one stats, in ATB threes BOS were #1 in NBA, MIN were bottom 10. Enter DDV, Ingles, Dillingham. You CANT hope to shoot more threes if:
- your team lacks patin touches
- your team is too shy to shoot ATB and pullup threes
Re: Identity crisis?
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               minimus
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Re: Identity crisis?

Who remember what happened on this picture?
Re: Identity crisis?
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               minimus
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Re: Identity crisis?
I am thinking about this whole week. It looks with Towns trade MIN are trying to anticipate both coming NBA changes and address our weakness. Let me explain.
It is unpopular opinion, but I think MIN lost DAL series before it started. MIN lost it, when after sweeping PHO and leading 2:0 against DEN, we lost our composure and lost three games. DEN at the moment were reigning champions and gave MIN a very hard lesson: Jokic and company increased level of physicality. They hit MIN players with all kind of screens, hard fouls etc. At the end of the day MIN won that series, but against DAL they never looked the same MIN. They looked exhausted, tired.
Now TC have added two players with dog mentality: Randle and DDV. They hit, they hit first. With Randle is obvious: he is a bully in the paint, he punished matchups. But what many MIN fans dont realise yet is that DDV is a menace as well. For sharpshooter, aggression comes from situations when he gets mismatch on perimeter against slower opponent and just keeps hitting shots in opponent ace. Towns at PF never looked comfortable punishing smaller opponents and as sharpshooter he preferred clean looks. Donte is different.
P.S. Here is example of "Hit and hit first" mentality - a legendary Calhoun Hit him you motherf***er!
Re: Identity crisis?
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               Klomp
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Re: Identity crisis?
minimus wrote:Spoiler:
I don't think we talk enough about the pace that I think Julius can inject into the game. Last year the pace was 97.1 possessions per 48 minutes, the slowest for the team since the Jimmy year.
This is where the relationship between Julius and Finchy is important. As Timberwolves fans, I think we jut expect Julius is a halfcourt player because that's how the Knicks played in the last 5 seasons. Keep in mind that the HIGHEST pace the Knicks had over the past 5 seasons was 98.6 in 2019-20, his first season in New York and the year before Thibs got to town. However, Finchy saw Julius up close in New Orleans, when the Pelicans had a pace of 103.3.
tsherkin wrote:The important thing to take away here is that Klomp is wrong.
Esohny wrote:Why are you asking Klomp? "He's" actually a bot that posts random blurbs from a database.
Klomp wrote:I'm putting the tired in retired mod at the moment
Re: Identity crisis?
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               minimus
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Re: Identity crisis?
Klomp wrote:minimus wrote:Spoiler:
I don't think we talk enough about the pace that I think Julius can inject into the game. Last year the pace was 97.1 possessions per 48 minutes, the slowest for the team since the Jimmy year.
This is where the relationship between Julius and Finchy is important. As Timberwolves fans, I think we jut expect Julius is a halfcourt player because that's how the Knicks played in the last 5 seasons. Keep in mind that the HIGHEST pace the Knicks had over the past 5 seasons was 98.6 in 2019-20, his first season in New York and the year before Thibs got to town. However, Finchy saw Julius up close in New Orleans, when the Pelicans had a pace of 103.3.
The big difference here is Edwards, I might be mistaken, but Brunson looks to me as one who prefers a very methodical approach to beat defense: postups, mid range game etc. Edwards is naturally is more willing to run and gun. But it is not mechanical shift of mentality, I am not sure if MIN can simply run in transition and play faster in half court. I feel like we underestimate quick decision making and overestimate athletic abilities. I mean it helps to a lot quicker like Kyle Anderson vs TJ Shannon in transition, or Towns vs Randle in transition. But it requires a smart team actions, like passing, decision making, court vision and offensive defensive scheme.
P.S. I also think that having Donte as high volume sniper will help a lot. His gravity will allow us to keep offensive rhythm where last season we had to reset offense.
Re: Identity crisis?
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               minimus
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Re: Identity crisis?
Another big room for improvement is offensive rebounding. MIN were 25th last season in offensive rebounds. NYK were the best. Now two players come from NYK. Also there is absolutely no reason why McDaniels averages less rebounds than DDV.
            
                                    
                                    
                        Re: Identity crisis?
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               winforlose
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Re: Identity crisis?
minimus wrote:Another big room for improvement is offensive rebounding. MIN were 25th last season in offensive rebounds. NYK were the best. Now two players come from NYK. Also there is absolutely no reason why McDaniels averages less rebounds than DDV.
MCD always runs back on D rather than crashing. Though corner crashing was a big improvement in MCD’s game during the playoffs, and hopefully continues into this season. Also it is worth noting offensive rebounds require missing, and we did shoot some high efficiency games last year. Hopefully with a bunch of skilled shooters being added (DDV, RD, Jingles,) we miss even less frequently and have fewer boards to grab.
Re: Identity crisis?
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               Klomp
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Re: Identity crisis?
I know a lot of people probably watched this when it came out last September, but I highly, highly recommend watching it through again, but now through the lens of what we know happened during the 2023-24 season and what unfolded in the months since the Dallas series.
            
                                    
                                    tsherkin wrote:The important thing to take away here is that Klomp is wrong.
Esohny wrote:Why are you asking Klomp? "He's" actually a bot that posts random blurbs from a database.
Klomp wrote:I'm putting the tired in retired mod at the moment
Re: Identity crisis?
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               Klomp
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Re: Identity crisis?
This last answer by Donte I think perfectly embodies the Finch philosophy. (starts at 5:20)
            
                                    
                                    tsherkin wrote:The important thing to take away here is that Klomp is wrong.
Esohny wrote:Why are you asking Klomp? "He's" actually a bot that posts random blurbs from a database.
Klomp wrote:I'm putting the tired in retired mod at the moment
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