Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Beal for Midds discussed last year

ShootingtheJ · Post #1881 » by **ShootingtheJ** » Wed Oct 9, 2024 2:22 am

Ryan Dunn can shoot 3s now. I'm going to be sick.

Horst passed on the defensive dynamo we desperately needed to take the guy who couldn't get on the floor in the NBL. Horst is a joke.

Post #1882 » by **ReasonablySober** » Wed Oct 9, 2024 2:22 am

ShootingtheJ wrote:
ReasonablySober wrote:
ShootingtheJ wrote:
Beal has a no trade clause. He couldn't be dealt until he wanted to. He wasn't on the market until the summer.

He had a no trade clause that summer too. Not the point the story. Stop moving the goalposts.

Beal requested a trade in the summer, not during the season, so the goalposts are planted firmly.

Everyone: Wow, the Bucks tried to trade for Beal!

You: "Middleton was a free agent, he couldn't be traded" [No] "Beal couldn't be traded, he signed his deal" [Nope] "He actually had a no trade clause" [Hey you got there, now see above]

Post #1883 » by **paulpressey25** » Wed Oct 9, 2024 2:30 am

Ron Swanson wrote:The "we could have traded Midds instead of Jrue" is becoming the new "we could have drafted Dirk". Don't let the facts and cap logistics get in the way of a good narrative.

If the Bucks don’t make the Finals with Dame, we’ll have a good debate regarding that trade. And yes, it will be fair game to discuss what other options may or may not have been available. Was this option available? Who knows. But obviously there was an ability to trade Midds or trade Jrue for a different return. And maybe the Dame deal will bring a Title.

This is why Horst gets paid the big bucks. To hit on these deals.

emunney · Post #1884 » by **emunney** » Wed Oct 9, 2024 2:36 am

It seems like he's clearly talking about the process of being traded that summer, even names the interested teams as they were reported at the time. Maybe somebody involved in the discussions brought up Middleton, but the other thing about the reporting from that time was specifically that we would not trade Middleton to get Beal. I remember it because it was a key pillar of my "we're shopping Jrue" conspiracy. Also included were Middleton being involved in the coaching search (but not Jrue), and Jrue getting absolutely demolished by Butler.

That said, Khris *could* have been involved if he'd opted in, which option he declined 3 days before the deal with the Suns. Maybe in S&T scenarios too, but I don't remember the state of the CBA at that moment.

ShootingtheJ · Post #1885 » by **ShootingtheJ** » Wed Oct 9, 2024 2:41 am

Ron Swanson wrote:If Wright, Prince, and Trent aren't sufficient/healthy enough come February, the defensive upgrade is gonna be when this team finally pulls the trigger on a Bobby trade and embraces the Giannis at Center lineups. It has been and continues to be the most obvious move since the Dame trade happened.

Exciting, but his unit will continue to get roughed up on the glass though. The team still needs to add a forward.

Ryan Dunn could have been that forward.

emunney · Post #1886 » by **emunney** » Wed Oct 9, 2024 2:42 am

Anyway, I do agree with StJ that Beal is a crazy mixed-up kid.

ShootingtheJ · Post #1887 » by **ShootingtheJ** » Wed Oct 9, 2024 2:44 am

ReasonablySober wrote:
ShootingtheJ wrote:
ReasonablySober wrote:
He had a no trade clause that summer too. Not the point the story. Stop moving the goalposts.

Beal requested a trade in the summer, not during the season, so the goalposts are planted firmly.

Everyone: Wow, the Bucks tried to trade for Beal!

You: "Middleton was a free agent, he couldn't be traded" [No] "Beal couldn't be traded, he signed his deal" [Nope] "He actually had a no trade clause" [Hey you got there, now see above]

Why you blaming me for you not knowing the rules?

It was Khris who couldn't be traded after he signed his deal.

Post #1888 » by **ReasonablySober** » Wed Oct 9, 2024 2:49 am

ShootingtheJ wrote:
ReasonablySober wrote:
ShootingtheJ wrote:
Beal requested a trade in the summer, not during the season, so the goalposts are planted firmly.

Everyone: Wow, the Bucks tried to trade for Beal!

You: "Middleton was a free agent, he couldn't be traded" [No] "Beal couldn't be traded, he signed his deal" [Nope] "He actually had a no trade clause" [Hey you got there, now see above]

Why you blaming me for you not knowing the rules?

I didn't know the rules? I just spelled out over two pages how a deal was possible. The story here is the Bucks wanted to trade Middleton and Beal shot it down.

ShootingtheJ · Post #1889 » by **ShootingtheJ** » Wed Oct 9, 2024 2:50 am

ReasonablySober wrote:
ShootingtheJ wrote:
ReasonablySober wrote:
Everyone: Wow, the Bucks tried to trade for Beal!

You: "Middleton was a free agent, he couldn't be traded" [No] "Beal couldn't be traded, he signed his deal" [Nope] "He actually had a no trade clause" [Hey you got there, now see above]

Why you blaming me for you not knowing the rules?

I didn't know the rules? I just spelled out over two pages how a deal was possible. The story here is the Bucks wanted to trade Middleton and Beal shot it down.

Beal is lying, or misinformed. The Beal deal was a layered Jrue deal.

ShootingtheJ · Post #1890 » by **ShootingtheJ** » Wed Oct 9, 2024 2:55 am

paulpressey25 wrote:
Ron Swanson wrote:The "we could have traded Midds instead of Jrue" is becoming the new "we could have drafted Dirk". Don't let the facts and cap logistics get in the way of a good narrative.

If the Bucks don’t make the Finals with Dame, we’ll have a good debate regarding that trade. And yes, it will be fair game to discuss what other options may or may not have been available. Was this option available? Who knows. But obviously there was an ability to trade Midds or trade Jrue for a different return. And maybe the Dame deal will bring a Title.

This is why Horst gets paid the big bucks. To hit on these deals.

True, but more likely, if the Bucks don't win it with Dame, it will be because the surrounding talent isn't good enough and doesn't fit. Horst epically terrible drafting will be a factor.

Post #1891 » by **ReasonablySober** » Wed Oct 9, 2024 2:56 am

ShootingtheJ wrote:
ReasonablySober wrote:
ShootingtheJ wrote:
Why you blaming me for you not knowing the rules?

I didn't know the rules? I just spelled out over two pages how a deal was possible. The story here is the Bucks wanted to trade Middleton and Beal shot it down.

Beal is lying, or misinformed. The Beal deal was a layered Jrue deal.

You think it's more likely that Beal is lying? As opposed to the other scenario where the Bucks were trying to trade a guy who had only played 16 games for them that season, was averaging 13/3/3 on 42% shooting, and could walk that summer?

Okay.

MVP2110 · Post #1892 » by **MVP2110** » Wed Oct 9, 2024 3:02 am

If Ryan Dunn is able to hit 3s and we passed on him I'm going to be sick. He'd be such a perfect fit for this team

ShootingtheJ · Post #1893 » by **ShootingtheJ** » Wed Oct 9, 2024 3:24 am

ReasonablySober wrote:
ShootingtheJ wrote:
ReasonablySober wrote:
I didn't know the rules? I just spelled out over two pages how a deal was possible. The story here is the Bucks wanted to trade Middleton and Beal shot it down.

Beal is lying, or misinformed. The Beal deal was a layered Jrue deal.

You think it's more likely that Beal is lying? As opposed to the other scenario where the Bucks were trying to trade a guy who had only played 16 games for them that season, was averaging 13/3/3 on 42% shooting, and could walk that summer?

Okay.

Correct. Absolutely no one thinks the Bucks were trying to trade Mids for an injured Beal, who hadn't waived his no trade, in season, at the deadline, after winning the Championship.

Post #1894 » by **ReasonablySober** » Wed Oct 9, 2024 3:30 am

ShootingtheJ wrote:
ReasonablySober wrote:
ShootingtheJ wrote:
Beal is lying, or misinformed. The Beal deal was a layered Jrue deal.

You think it's more likely that Beal is lying? As opposed to the other scenario where the Bucks were trying to trade a guy who had only played 16 games for them that season, was averaging 13/3/3 on 42% shooting, and could walk that summer?

Okay.

Correct. Absolutely no one thinks the Bucks were trying to trade Mids for an injured Beal, who hadn't waived his no trade, in season, at the deadline, after winning the Championship.

Beal was a hell of a lot more healthy and productive than Middleton at the deadline in 2023.

32 games
32 MPG
22.2 PPG
5.2 APG
3.5 RPG
51% FG
36% 3FG
85% FT

Post #1895 » by **ReasonablySober** » Wed Oct 9, 2024 3:31 am

And again, the no-trade isn't the point, but if anything it's proof the deal was out there for Beal to turn down.

ShootingtheJ · Post #1896 » by **ShootingtheJ** » Wed Oct 9, 2024 3:37 am

MVP2110 wrote:If Ryan Dunn is able to hit 3s and we passed on him I'm going to be sick. He'd be such a perfect fit for this team

If he can shoot, then he'll be able to be an all around scorer. Combine that with his defense and rebounding, and he'll be the steal of the draft.

soxperry · Post #1897 » by **soxperry** » Wed Oct 9, 2024 11:03 am

ShootingtheJ wrote:Ryan Dunn can shoot 3s now. I'm going to be sick.

Horst passed on the defensive dynamo we desperately needed to take the guy who couldn't get on the floor in the NBL. Horst is a joke.

Andre Jackson hit like 40% from 3 for most of the season last year...in real nba games, not preseason. That doesn't mean he can shoot now.

Also, you really think a rookie is going to be playable in a conference finals or finals? The odds of him both hitting as a two way player and being playable in the deep playoffs either this year or next are likely very small.

The odds of Prince being able to do that are 100%

So that's done.

soxperry · Post #1898 » by **soxperry** » Wed Oct 9, 2024 11:23 am

Speaking of young players. Im aware that our guys look terrible when they are all on the court together but, outside of AJ Johnson, all of them were drafted to be complementary pieces.

Im still very excited to see how Ajax can fit in with some of the starters. Maybe he is on when Giannis is off and hes the only non shooter. Maybe they just have him out there with Giannis and wreak havoc in transition. Honestly, get him in the dunker spot a little and see if he can be a more athletic, multidimensional Pat.

AJ Green is very one dimensional but lets just get him throwing up 5-6 cheap and easy open 3s per game off of Giannis's gravity. He should be able to touch 45%. Thats an easy, regular season wheel greaser.

Umude just had a great defensive season and also hit a very high percentage of his 3s. Get him ready to step in for Wright and Trent jr when they get banged up.

You can knock Horst's drafting but this team is well built for this season. We have depth at POA where we used to have absolutely nothing (aside from a couple months of pat bev)

ShootingtheJ · Post #1899 » by **ShootingtheJ** » Wed Oct 9, 2024 11:43 am

soxperry wrote:
ShootingtheJ wrote:Ryan Dunn can shoot 3s now. I'm going to be sick.

Horst passed on the defensive dynamo we desperately needed to take the guy who couldn't get on the floor in the NBL. Horst is a joke.

Andre Jackson hit like 40% from 3 for most of the season last year...in real nba games, not preseason. That doesn't mean he can shoot now.

Also, you really think a rookie is going to be playable in a conference finals or finals? The odds of him both hitting as a two way player and being playable in the deep playoffs either this year or next are likely very small.

The odds of Prince being able to do that are 100%

So that's done.

Prince isn't good, his teams are consistently better when he sits.

Dunn is a rare defender, and that always makes an impact in the playoffs.

ShootingtheJ · Post #1900 » by **ShootingtheJ** » Wed Oct 9, 2024 11:46 am

soxperry wrote:Speaking of young players. Im aware that our guys look terrible when they are all on the court together but, outside of AJ Johnson, all of them were drafted to be complementary pieces.

Im still very excited to see how Ajax can fit in with some of the starters. Maybe he is on when Giannis is off and hes the only non shooter. Maybe they just have him out there with Giannis and wreak havoc in transition. Honestly, get him in the dunker spot a little and see if he can be a more athletic, multidimensional Pat.

There is no more dunker spot, we're playing a true 5 out now.

I do agree that they'd look better as complimentary pieces rather than playing together, especially in a 5 out.