With the 45th pick, the Raptors select Jamal Shead

[WhatsaTDot]

Annnnnd this is why this board turns on players.

If Shead ends up having half the career FVV has had it is a massive success. But if he even becomes serviceable the fans will start to blame him. Pathetic.

I just think its pretty unfair to give him a comp higher than a guy who ended up an All Star.

Shead played one NBA game against the pre-season Wizards against an 18 year-old rookie and Jordan Poole. Time to pump the brakes on pick 45.

That's exactly my point. Does it come off as otherwise?

[Johnny Bball]

https://www.thestar.com/sports/raptors/hes-a-winner-how-toronto-raptors-guard-jamal-shead-is-carving-out-a-role-at/article_54440a6e-8415-11ef-92cf-b7b1c8e3f582.html

[ForeverTFC]

Annnnnd this is why this board turns on players.

If Shead ends up having half the career FVV has had it is a massive success. But if he even becomes serviceable the fans will start to blame him. Pathetic.

I just think its pretty unfair to give him a comp higher than a guy who ended up an All Star.

Shead played one NBA game against the pre-season Wizards against an 18 year-old rookie and Jordan Poole. Time to pump the brakes on pick 45.

This board's dislike of FVV is something else. He wasn't a favorite of mine during his tenure, but the guy is one of the biggest development stories in the NBA over the last decade, up there with Siakam as guys who exceeded their projections beyond measure and made it against the odds. Crazy that the best development stories in our franchise and up there in modern NBA history are so hated by fans.

If Shead approaches anything FVV has done in this league, Dan Tolzman deserves a statue.

[Quattro]

I just think its pretty unfair to give him a comp higher than a guy who ended up an All Star.

Shead played one NBA game against the pre-season Wizards against an 18 year-old rookie and Jordan Poole. Time to pump the brakes on pick 45.

This board's dislike of FVV is something else. He wasn't a favorite of mine during his tenure, but the guy is one of the biggest development stories in the NBA over the last decade, up there with Siakam as guys who exceeded their projections beyond measure and made it against the odds. Crazy that the best development stories in our franchise and up there in modern NBA history are so hated by fans.

If Shead approaches anything FVV has done in this league, Dan Tolzman deserves a statue.

I'm not sure "fans" is the right word there.

[YogurtProducer]

I just think its pretty unfair to give him a comp higher than a guy who ended up an All Star.

Shead played one NBA game against the pre-season Wizards against an 18 year-old rookie and Jordan Poole. Time to pump the brakes on pick 45.

This board's dislike of FVV is something else. He wasn't a favorite of mine during his tenure, but the guy is one of the biggest development stories in the NBA over the last decade, up there with Siakam as guys who exceeded their projections beyond measure and made it against the odds. Crazy that the best development stories in our franchise and up there in modern NBA history are so hated by fans.

If Shead approaches anything FVV has done in this league, Dan Tolzman deserves a statue.

It is unlike anything I have ever seen on here, or anywhere sports related regarding a player who was homegrown and played a big part in a title run.

[raincityraptors]

I don't know if any of you remember me writing that I wanted to get Shead in the second round but I didn't think it was realistic given our other needs. I think we are already seeing what he can do for us and I really hope he's our backup PG for the next 10 years. He has such high character and basketball IQ. He'll make an excellent coach one day too.

I know some are comparing him to Fred but he's closer to Kyle (the prospect) without the rebounding numbers. As a prospect, I think he got downhill better than either of them. If he can develop a reliable 3 he might become a spot starter.

I do suspect once teams figure out he can't shoot, they will guard him a lot better. I hope we are able to help him find a reliable 3pt shot.

[Scase]

I don't know if any of you remember me writing that I wanted to get Shead in the second round but I didn't think it was realistic given our other needs. I think we are already seeing what he can do for us and I really hope he's our backup PG for the next 10 years. He has such high character and basketball IQ. He'll make an excellent coach one day too.

I know some are comparing him to Fred but he's closer to Kyle (the prospect) without the rebounding numbers. As a prospect, I think he got downhill better than either of them. If he can develop a reliable 3 he might become a spot starter.

I do suspect once teams figure out he can't shoot, they will guard him a lot better. I hope we are able to help him find a reliable 3pt shot.

Well, they won't really have to guard him at all tbh, just sag off and dare him to shoot. I like his defensive tenacity, but if he can't develop a shot, he is not long for this league. It's the same for Ochai, and Mitchell, the NBA has moved past hyper specialists, you need to at least not be a massive negative on one side of the ball.

[Dalek]

I don't know if any of you remember me writing that I wanted to get Shead in the second round but I didn't think it was realistic given our other needs. I think we are already seeing what he can do for us and I really hope he's our backup PG for the next 10 years. He has such high character and basketball IQ. He'll make an excellent coach one day too.

I know some are comparing him to Fred but he's closer to Kyle (the prospect) without the rebounding numbers. As a prospect, I think he got downhill better than either of them. If he can develop a reliable 3 he might become a spot starter.

I do suspect once teams figure out he can't shoot, they will guard him a lot better. I hope we are able to help him find a reliable 3pt shot.

Well, they won't really have to guard him at all tbh, just sag off and dare him to shoot. I like his defensive tenacity, but if he can't develop a shot, he is not long for this league. It's the same for Ochai, and Mitchell, the NBA has moved past hyper specialists, you need to at least not be a massive negative on one side of the ball.

I don't even have trouble with defensive specialists. The problem is size and strength. This past few days I have watched Amen Thompson, Anthony Black, and Stephon Castle and all are 6'4 or bigger guards and you feel the physicality when they are defending. Shead is like Fred, generously listed at 6 feet - he looks a bit light.

He can definitely play some on ball stuff and get some strips in close, but if bigger guards can just shoot over him he has less value. Not saying he can't carve out a role, but every inch of wingspan matters in the NBA and he is on the fringe size wise.

The shooting is the other concern, but I don't worry about him with that. He will become passable as his form looks good.

[raincityraptors]

I don't know if any of you remember me writing that I wanted to get Shead in the second round but I didn't think it was realistic given our other needs. I think we are already seeing what he can do for us and I really hope he's our backup PG for the next 10 years. He has such high character and basketball IQ. He'll make an excellent coach one day too.

I know some are comparing him to Fred but he's closer to Kyle (the prospect) without the rebounding numbers. As a prospect, I think he got downhill better than either of them. If he can develop a reliable 3 he might become a spot starter.

I do suspect once teams figure out he can't shoot, they will guard him a lot better. I hope we are able to help him find a reliable 3pt shot.

Well, they won't really have to guard him at all tbh, just sag off and dare him to shoot. I like his defensive tenacity, but if he can't develop a shot, he is not long for this league. It's the same for Ochai, and Mitchell, the NBA has moved past hyper specialists, you need to at least not be a massive negative on one side of the ball.

I don't even have trouble with defensive specialists. The problem is size and strength. This past few days I have watched Amen Thompson, Anthony Black, and Stephon Castle and all are 6'4 or bigger guards and you feel the physicality when they are defending. Shead is like Fred, generously listed at 6 feet - he looks a bit light.

He can definitely play some on ball stuff and get some strips in close, but if bigger guards can just shoot over him he has less value. Not saying he can't carve out a role, but every inch of wingspan matters in the NBA and he is on the fringe size wise.

The shooting is the other concern, but I don't worry about him with that. He will become passable as his form looks good.

If the shooting works out for Shead, I'm not concerned with the rest. He can guard bigger guards.

[Scase]

I don't know if any of you remember me writing that I wanted to get Shead in the second round but I didn't think it was realistic given our other needs. I think we are already seeing what he can do for us and I really hope he's our backup PG for the next 10 years. He has such high character and basketball IQ. He'll make an excellent coach one day too.

I know some are comparing him to Fred but he's closer to Kyle (the prospect) without the rebounding numbers. As a prospect, I think he got downhill better than either of them. If he can develop a reliable 3 he might become a spot starter.

I do suspect once teams figure out he can't shoot, they will guard him a lot better. I hope we are able to help him find a reliable 3pt shot.

Well, they won't really have to guard him at all tbh, just sag off and dare him to shoot. I like his defensive tenacity, but if he can't develop a shot, he is not long for this league. It's the same for Ochai, and Mitchell, the NBA has moved past hyper specialists, you need to at least not be a massive negative on one side of the ball.

I don't even have trouble with defensive specialists. The problem is size and strength. This past few days I have watched Amen Thompson, Anthony Black, and Stephon Castle and all are 6'4 or bigger guards and you feel the physicality when they are defending. Shead is like Fred, generously listed at 6 feet - he looks a bit light.

He can definitely play some on ball stuff and get some strips in close, but if bigger guards can just shoot over him he has less value. Not saying he can't carve out a role, but every inch of wingspan matters in the NBA and he is on the fringe size wise.

The shooting is the other concern, but I don't worry about him with that. He will become passable as his form looks good.

The shooting is a bigger issue to me, I can see us using him when we need some solid backup minutes to keep things from collapsing like they have in the past from the bench, but the NBA doesn't really hinge on defence anymore. Having to play 4 on 5 is a massive handicap, it puts extra defensive pressure on the guys who can score, and with how offence driven the NBA is now, any time you can't get production from all 5 players on the court, you suffer.

Like I said before, it's why Ochai is probably out of the league after this contract (unless he massively improves his 3) and likely the same for Mitchell. These guys are just too much of a liability for teams to rely on them in any real capacity. It's the same issue with Nowell from last year, granted he was a couple inches smaller, but he is basically a carbon copy player. He played 2 whole minutes for us, despite being a 25 win team. These guys are just too limited physically that if you can't contribute at a super efficient level on offence, you won't last.

[Nebuchadnezzar]

Pffffftttttttt, it took one game for teams to adjust to this g leaguers game. And those teams were the Washington Wizards.

[Dalek]

Well, they won't really have to guard him at all tbh, just sag off and dare him to shoot. I like his defensive tenacity, but if he can't develop a shot, he is not long for this league. It's the same for Ochai, and Mitchell, the NBA has moved past hyper specialists, you need to at least not be a massive negative on one side of the ball.

I don't even have trouble with defensive specialists. The problem is size and strength. This past few days I have watched Amen Thompson, Anthony Black, and Stephon Castle and all are 6'4 or bigger guards and you feel the physicality when they are defending. Shead is like Fred, generously listed at 6 feet - he looks a bit light.

He can definitely play some on ball stuff and get some strips in close, but if bigger guards can just shoot over him he has less value. Not saying he can't carve out a role, but every inch of wingspan matters in the NBA and he is on the fringe size wise.

The shooting is the other concern, but I don't worry about him with that. He will become passable as his form looks good.

The shooting is a bigger issue to me, I can see us using him when we need some solid backup minutes to keep things from collapsing like they have in the past from the bench, but the NBA doesn't really hinge on defence anymore. Having to play 4 on 5 is a massive handicap, it puts extra defensive pressure on the guys who can score, and with how offence driven the NBA is now, any time you can't get production from all 5 players on the court, you suffer.

Like I said before, it's why Ochai is probably out of the league after this contract (unless he massively improves his 3) and likely the same for Mitchell. These guys are just too much of a liability for teams to rely on them in any real capacity. It's the same issue with Nowell from last year, granted he was a couple inches smaller, but he is basically a carbon copy player. He played 2 whole minutes for us, despite being a 25 win team. These guys are just too limited physically that if you can't contribute at a super efficient level on offence, you won't last.

I starting to agree with you and just wonder why Masai and Bobby keep bringing in these broken shooters thinking "we will fix you". The modern NBA just shreds you if you now if you can't shoot.

I don't even know the style of basketball we are playing these days, but guys like Shead won't fix it.

PG wise I was hoping for Ajay Mitchell or Tyler Kolek and both those guys have shown better.

[OakleyDokely]

All players selected 45th have something broken. Otherwise, they'd be picked a lot higher

Shead has some NBA skills that could make him serviceable right away, which is a good start for a 2nd rounder.

Shead was never going to look good in lineups without proper spacing where he needed to provide the offense. He's a situational bench player who could be more if he improves the shot.

[nikster]

I don't even have trouble with defensive specialists. The problem is size and strength. This past few days I have watched Amen Thompson, Anthony Black, and Stephon Castle and all are 6'4 or bigger guards and you feel the physicality when they are defending. Shead is like Fred, generously listed at 6 feet - he looks a bit light.

He can definitely play some on ball stuff and get some strips in close, but if bigger guards can just shoot over him he has less value. Not saying he can't carve out a role, but every inch of wingspan matters in the NBA and he is on the fringe size wise.

The shooting is the other concern, but I don't worry about him with that. He will become passable as his form looks good.

The shooting is a bigger issue to me, I can see us using him when we need some solid backup minutes to keep things from collapsing like they have in the past from the bench, but the NBA doesn't really hinge on defence anymore. Having to play 4 on 5 is a massive handicap, it puts extra defensive pressure on the guys who can score, and with how offence driven the NBA is now, any time you can't get production from all 5 players on the court, you suffer.

Like I said before, it's why Ochai is probably out of the league after this contract (unless he massively improves his 3) and likely the same for Mitchell. These guys are just too much of a liability for teams to rely on them in any real capacity. It's the same issue with Nowell from last year, granted he was a couple inches smaller, but he is basically a carbon copy player. He played 2 whole minutes for us, despite being a 25 win team. These guys are just too limited physically that if you can't contribute at a super efficient level on offence, you won't last.

I starting to agree with you and just wonder why Masai and Bobby keep bringing in these broken shooters thinking "we will fix you". The modern NBA just shreds you if you now if you can't shoot.

I don't even know the style of basketball we are playing these days, but guys like Shead won't fix it.

PG wise I was hoping for Ajay Mitchell or Tyler Kolek and both those guys have shown better.

You just listed 2 guys that were listed 7 and 11 picks ahead of Shead. Who is available around 45 that doesn't have massive holes in their game? Shooting isn't always easy to fix but it's usually easier than fixing something like poor defense.

And some of Masai best value picks were players that had shooting concerns at draft time (OG, Pascal, Powell, Scottie)

[REJECTEDBYCLARK]

shead has traits which cannot be taught, these are the guys you want to actually work with in order to try to improve what can be improved because the rest is in place

but beyond that there will always be dimensional limitations holding him back from really becoming something crazy

at the end of the day he can still become a starting caliber PG if the shot can be improved

[PushDaRock]

As I have said before, he put up 49-50 TS% in all 4 years of college, it is unlikely he becomes dramatically more efficient in the NBA. If he gets to passable like 53% TS which is still below average but playable given his other strengths, you consider that a win.

[HangTime]

He did exactly what I wanted to see. Take a bunch of 3s, try to get a rhythm going.

He didn't make any, but right now, I'm good with what I'm seeing.

[Chandan]

is he taller than the greatest player to put on a raptors uniform?

[Scase]

The shooting is a bigger issue to me, I can see us using him when we need some solid backup minutes to keep things from collapsing like they have in the past from the bench, but the NBA doesn't really hinge on defence anymore. Having to play 4 on 5 is a massive handicap, it puts extra defensive pressure on the guys who can score, and with how offence driven the NBA is now, any time you can't get production from all 5 players on the court, you suffer.

Like I said before, it's why Ochai is probably out of the league after this contract (unless he massively improves his 3) and likely the same for Mitchell. These guys are just too much of a liability for teams to rely on them in any real capacity. It's the same issue with Nowell from last year, granted he was a couple inches smaller, but he is basically a carbon copy player. He played 2 whole minutes for us, despite being a 25 win team. These guys are just too limited physically that if you can't contribute at a super efficient level on offence, you won't last.

I starting to agree with you and just wonder why Masai and Bobby keep bringing in these broken shooters thinking "we will fix you". The modern NBA just shreds you if you now if you can't shoot.

I don't even know the style of basketball we are playing these days, but guys like Shead won't fix it.

PG wise I was hoping for Ajay Mitchell or Tyler Kolek and both those guys have shown better.

You just listed 2 guys that were listed 7 and 11 picks ahead of Shead. Who is available around 45 that doesn't have massive holes in their game? Shooting isn't always easy to fix but it's usually easier than fixing something like poor defense.

And some of Masai best value picks were players that had shooting concerns at draft time (OG, Pascal, Powell, Scottie)

Yeah, and none of those 4 guys are 6 feet tall on a good day. Should we go through the list of all the players we added to the team that never learned to shoot? Cause that is a much longer list. You're using exceptions to prove the rule, also Scottie still has shooting concerns.

Hopefully he learns to shoot better, but this is the exact same situation as Nowell last year, and where is he now?

[nikster]

I starting to agree with you and just wonder why Masai and Bobby keep bringing in these broken shooters thinking "we will fix you". The modern NBA just shreds you if you now if you can't shoot.

I don't even know the style of basketball we are playing these days, but guys like Shead won't fix it.

PG wise I was hoping for Ajay Mitchell or Tyler Kolek and both those guys have shown better.

You just listed 2 guys that were listed 7 and 11 picks ahead of Shead. Who is available around 45 that doesn't have massive holes in their game? Shooting isn't always easy to fix but it's usually easier than fixing something like poor defense.

And some of Masai best value picks were players that had shooting concerns at draft time (OG, Pascal, Powell, Scottie)

Yeah, and none of those 4 guys are 6 feet tall on a good day. Should we go through the list of all the players we added to the team that never learned to shoot? Cause that is a much longer list. You're using exceptions to prove the rule, also Scottie still has shooting concerns.

Hopefully he learns to shoot better, but this is the exact same situation as Nowell last year, and where is he now?

Yeah he's a 45th pick, he has significant flaws. If anything I think he's at least a good guy to have in practice. Anybody else you had in mind taking after him or is this just the usual complaining for the sake of it?

So basically all the best value picks in our history had players shooting concerns. Hardly a rare exception. And yeah there was a lot of misses too, but no more than can be expected in the draft, especially considering draft slot. Do you want a list of all mid 2nd round picks that don't pan out?