jasonxxx102 wrote:JujitsuFlip wrote:jasonxxx102 wrote:
You don't have to just be a homer and treat everything like it's always rainbows and unicorns. I get it, I've lived in Cleveland for my entire life and I'll be a fan until I die but it's ok to accept reality.
Where did that 2nd best regular season net rating get us? A 1st round exit. The team has done nothing to improve the roster in the last 3 years while we watched Boston win a title, Philly get PG, and the Knicks get KAT. These teams are positioning themselves to win.
I crapped on JB on these boards for 3 years and you told me "just wait" "give it time" "it'll get better" etc. etc.. You would come up with every excuse under the sun rather than just accepting the reality of what JB was
This Cavs team is just the 2013-2018 Wizards. You'll get 5 years worth of playoff berths, max 2nd round exit, and then back to tanking. Donovan Mitchell is not good enough to be the best player on a title contender and your young players have only gotten marginally better while the team has done barely anything for depth. The biggest signing was Max Strus who's an OK player but doesn't move the needle
I think it is fair to want to give Kenny and his staff a chance. This isn't year 6 of jb
bickerstaff.
Did we trade for OG, KAT, or Bridges? No.
Did we sign PG or to a much lesser extent Martin? No.
Are we bringing back an entire roster who won a title (Boston)? No.
If you wanna be mad at someone, be mad at Koby Altman. But just know Kenny and Mitchell both wanted Garland and Allen here. Gilbert hasn't fired anyone so he obviously co-signs it.
I agree with you, the roster fit is awful but from top to the bottom and bottom to top, this organization wants to roll with the core4.
Just give Kenny until Christmas, if the offense is still iso heavy and the rotation only 8 guys, then I'll be onboard with you about crapping on anything and everything that has to do with the Cavs, until then, its premature.
Wait a minute.
I said the Cavs were a tier below the contenders and they'd probably win 50 games. That's hardly "crapping on anything and everything".
The offense under Atkinson might be fine, and we have good players, but we don't have a roster that can compete with the best.
I actually applaud Koby for goin out and getting Mitchell. I don't think he's a tier 1 player but that's a solid move. I think the team could be a lot better if you traded Allen for a ball-handling wing. If you could somehow get a guy like Ingram and put Mobley at the 5 you might be pushing into that potential contender tier.
If expecting 50 wins and a 2nd round exit is crapping on everything, what are your expectations?
Well, we won 48 wins last year while missing 25+ games from each of our three best players and mailing in the last game of the season. And that's before you get to minutes restrictions and playing at less than 100% due to injury (Mitchell post-ASB, Garland post-jaw). If we only win two more games this year? That's actually going to be somewhat shocking to me unless we again get bitten by the injury bug (particularly in the frontcourt).
That's only reverting some regression from last year. That's not accounting at all for a coaching change that in theory will make the pieces fit better. That's not accounting for minor progress for a roster that is mostly guys well under the age of 30. Just average injury luck should get us to low-to-mid-50s wins pretty comfortably.
And then there's the "contenders". Everyone looks at the adds without the subtractions. In the past two years New York has lost a multi-time All-Star (Randle), at least three starting-quality players (Hartenstein, Barrett, DiVincenzo; Grimes although he hasn't played that way since being traded), a 6th man of the year runner-up (Quickley). And their return is just another multi-time All-Star, two very good non-all-stars, and Precious Achiuwa. Their depth has taken a major hit.
Almost none
While Boston won a title last year with their five-out starting lineup and New York is also moving that direction, both teams are also remarkably small inside. Mobley thrived against Boston not only because Allen was out for spacing-- he thrived against Boston because after Porzingis, their interior rim protection sucked. Horford is fine positionally but he doesn't have the length or the verticality to challenge Mobley inside; and he's at the age where an abrupt fall-off wouldn't be unusual.
New York's interior defense is also taking a big step back-- Randle was effective against Mobley because he's one of the PFs in the league that had a strength/bulk advantage over Evan, but now Cleveland only has to worry about Robinson as a threatening post defender off the bench. Hartenstein was a big loss when you look at defensive metrics. And they have to worry about their pieces fitting-- they look great from an add-the-numbers-up perspective but possibly not from actual play. And they're a health risk.
Philly is also notably lacking at the PF position. Caleb Martin doesn't have the length to defend Mobley. Paul George might get the assignment but that means our guards will have a much easier time on the perimeter. Maybe Yabusele is an NBA player, but he also might be a scrub.
The contenders in the east all have the same weak point that a taking-the-leap Mobley would be ideal to attack. They're all down to one or zero good, healthy rim protectors and none have bulky 4s that have given Mobley problems on offense.
Milwaukee might be a bad match-up but only if Dame figures out Okoro, and they still don't have the guys to guard Mitchell and Garland on the perimeter.
