2024-25 Regular Season

[toooskies]

Lots of guys looked better last night, at least in the first half I watched. Specifically Okoro had fewer "why didn't I get a foul call" misses or TOs. Dean Wade is trying stuff outside his comfort zone, but those shots aren't going in (yet).

Tyson has stupid rookie stuff to clean up but I like him.

[jbk1234]

Lots of guys looked better last night, at least in the first half I watched. Specifically Okoro had fewer "why didn't I get a foul call" misses or TOs. Dean Wade is trying stuff outside his comfort zone, but those shots aren't going in (yet).

Tyson has stupid rookie stuff to clean up but I like him.

Didn't watch the game, but the review I read said neither team was terribly interested in playing defense, and the Pacers don't exactly start at a good place when it comes to defense. Maybe getting comfortable in their roles will help when they face a team that has both the desire and personnel to play good defense, but that's not how it played out last season.

In any event, there are plenty of minutes to fill over the course of an 82 game season against teams who don't play good defense and the preseason is for figuring out which guys on the roster can at least do that.

[jasonxxx102]

I think it is fair to want to give Kenny and his staff a chance. This isn't year 6 of jb
bickerstaff.

Did we trade for OG, KAT, or Bridges? No.

Did we sign PG or to a much lesser extent Martin? No.

Are we bringing back an entire roster who won a title (Boston)? No.

If you wanna be mad at someone, be mad at Koby Altman. But just know Kenny and Mitchell both wanted Garland and Allen here. Gilbert hasn't fired anyone so he obviously co-signs it.

I agree with you, the roster fit is awful but from top to the bottom and bottom to top, this organization wants to roll with the core4.

Just give Kenny until Christmas, if the offense is still iso heavy and the rotation only 8 guys, then I'll be onboard with you about crapping on anything and everything that has to do with the Cavs, until then, its premature.

Wait a minute.

I said the Cavs were a tier below the contenders and they'd probably win 50 games. That's hardly "crapping on anything and everything".

The offense under Atkinson might be fine, and we have good players, but we don't have a roster that can compete with the best.

I actually applaud Koby for goin out and getting Mitchell. I don't think he's a tier 1 player but that's a solid move. I think the team could be a lot better if you traded Allen for a ball-handling wing. If you could somehow get a guy like Ingram and put Mobley at the 5 you might be pushing into that potential contender tier.

If expecting 50 wins and a 2nd round exit is crapping on everything, what are your expectations?

We could easily get Ingram for Allen but he’ll cost $50M per to retain and he's not worth it. Hes too reliant on his midrange game. Dort completely shut him down in the first round. It was so bad the coach benched him in favor of Murphy, who if he doesn't extended by the 21st, would be an appropriate target for an Allen trade. You're going to have to trade Garland too though.

I love Trey Murphey and think he would be a perfect fit but yea, way too expensive for us to get. We don't have the picks to get it done and you're not gaining anything if you move Garland and Allen.

[jasonxxx102]

Well, we won 48 wins last year while missing 25+ games from each of our three best players and mailing in the last game of the season. And that's before you get to minutes restrictions and playing at less than 100% due to injury (Mitchell post-ASB, Garland post-jaw). If we only win two more games this year? That's actually going to be somewhat shocking to me unless we again get bitten by the injury bug (particularly in the frontcourt).

That's only reverting some regression from last year. That's not accounting at all for a coaching change that in theory will make the pieces fit better. That's not accounting for minor progress for a roster that is mostly guys well under the age of 30. Just average injury luck should get us to low-to-mid-50s wins pretty comfortably.

And then there's the "contenders". Everyone looks at the adds without the subtractions. In the past two years New York has lost a multi-time All-Star (Randle), at least three starting-quality players (Hartenstein, Barrett, DiVincenzo; Grimes although he hasn't played that way since being traded), a 6th man of the year runner-up (Quickley). And their return is just another multi-time All-Star, two very good non-all-stars, and Precious Achiuwa. Their depth has taken a major hit.

Almost none

While Boston won a title last year with their five-out starting lineup and New York is also moving that direction, both teams are also remarkably small inside. Mobley thrived against Boston not only because Allen was out for spacing-- he thrived against Boston because after Porzingis, their interior rim protection sucked. Horford is fine positionally but he doesn't have the length or the verticality to challenge Mobley inside; and he's at the age where an abrupt fall-off wouldn't be unusual.

New York's interior defense is also taking a big step back-- Randle was effective against Mobley because he's one of the PFs in the league that had a strength/bulk advantage over Evan, but now Cleveland only has to worry about Robinson as a threatening post defender off the bench. Hartenstein was a big loss when you look at defensive metrics. And they have to worry about their pieces fitting-- they look great from an add-the-numbers-up perspective but possibly not from actual play. And they're a health risk.

Philly is also notably lacking at the PF position. Caleb Martin doesn't have the length to defend Mobley. Paul George might get the assignment but that means our guards will have a much easier time on the perimeter. Maybe Yabusele is an NBA player, but he also might be a scrub.

The contenders in the east all have the same weak point that a taking-the-leap Mobley would be ideal to attack. They're all down to one or zero good, healthy rim protectors and none have bulky 4s that have given Mobley problems on offense.

Milwaukee might be a bad match-up but only if Dame figures out Okoro, and they still don't have the guys to guard Mitchell and Garland on the perimeter.

I don't think anyone is going to argue that the Cavs are in the same tier as the Celtics. You can nitpick certain matchups and do pie in the sky what-ifs but, objectively, the Cavs and Celtics are obviously not in the same tier.

Then there's the Knicks. You mentioned depth which I wanted to address specifically.

1) Depth is pretty irrelevant when it comes to the playoffs. Can it win you a few extra games in the regular season? Sure? Can it hold you over while guys are injured? Sure but Thibs is clearly not a coach who cares very much about a deep bench

2) Even if we assume that depth does matter. This is the top 10 players on the Knicks:

Brunson, OG, Mikal, Hart, KAT, McBride, Achuiwa, Payne, Robinson, Shamet. Throw in guys like TJ Warren and Chuma Okeke for good measure and you're telling me that's not a deep team? They're deep at every position and half the team are guys who are positionless forwards who can shoot, defend, and handle the ball.

If we're talking about a specific matchup against the Cavs, the Knicks would be happy to let the Cavs beat them in the paint because that means your 2 best offensive players are locked down. The Knicks still have a rebounding advantage, have much better shooters and wing creators, and now they actually have spacing for Brunson to work. Getting rid of Randle was absolutely a positive for them for both a matchup against the Cavs AND anyone else.

The Sixers aren't a great matchup for the Cavs either because neither Mobley nor Allen can defend Embiid and if Mobley isn't going to be taking 15ft jumpers he's gonna be pretty useless offensively because Embiid can just camp around the paint.

If the Cavs are insistent on having 2 non-shooting big men then they're going to have a poor playoff offense. There's no way around that. It's not like Allen or Mobley are prime Shaq either. They're OK post scorers who can't do much outside of 10ft. You can work with 1, you can't build an efficient playoff offense around 2 in the modern NBA

If the Cavs don't improve and the Celtics don't take a step back, no, the Cavs aren't in the Celtics' tier. But both are very possible with Holiday and Horford on the wrong side of 30, Porzingis going 6+ months not playing basketball, title hangovers, etc on the Celtics side, and plenty of possible avenues for improvement on the Cavs' side. The Cavs played three games against the Celtics in the playoffs last year with Mitchell and won one of them.

Achiuwa, Payne, Shamet, Warren, Okeke aren't playoff players. McBride may or may not be. And you've got concerns with health for OG and Robinson, made worse by Thibs playing guys into the ground. I'll believe the Knicks have a rebounding advantage once I see it-- the Knicks will be playing pretty small most of the year, and while Hart makes up for that some, that might make them average instead of bad at rebounding.

Embiid has been reliably stopped in every playoffs before the 2nd round his entire career. Special thanks to his knees, but it isn't as if chronically injured big men get healthier as they get older.

A team won the title with two non-shooting bigs as recently as ... the 2022 Golden State Warriors with Draymond and Looney. I wonder if our coach knows anyone who was on the staff that year to figure out how to make that work?

I don't really expect the Celtics to take a big enough step back and the Cavs to take a big enough step forward for that to matter.

To the 2nd point, yea those guys aren't playoff players but Thibs only plays 7 guys anyways. There is absolutely the risk of injury and just not having enough juice left come playoff time but my assumptions are just based on full health. It's impossible to handicap injuries so I won't even try.

The last point did make me chuckle, though. It's a lot easier to win with non-shooting big men when you have the 2 greatest shooters in NBA history on your team, unfortunately for the Cavs, they don't

[jbk1234]

Wait a minute.

I said the Cavs were a tier below the contenders and they'd probably win 50 games. That's hardly "crapping on anything and everything".

The offense under Atkinson might be fine, and we have good players, but we don't have a roster that can compete with the best.

I actually applaud Koby for goin out and getting Mitchell. I don't think he's a tier 1 player but that's a solid move. I think the team could be a lot better if you traded Allen for a ball-handling wing. If you could somehow get a guy like Ingram and put Mobley at the 5 you might be pushing into that potential contender tier.

If expecting 50 wins and a 2nd round exit is crapping on everything, what are your expectations?

We could easily get Ingram for Allen but he’ll cost $50M per to retain and he's not worth it. Hes too reliant on his midrange game. Dort completely shut him down in the first round. It was so bad the coach benched him in favor of Murphy, who if he doesn't extended by the 21st, would be an appropriate target for an Allen trade. You're going to have to trade Garland too though.

I love Trey Murphey and think he would be a perfect fit but yea, way too expensive for us to get. We don't have the picks to get it done and you're not gaining anything if you move Garland and Allen.

Just understand that the reason the core 4 are even plausible is that Mitchell and Garland balance out the spacing issues caused by starting two traditional bigs, while Allen and Mobley offset the fact that neither Garland nor Mitchell are good defenders. If we could trade Allen for Murphy, then you may end up having to trade Garland for a guy like Vassell.

[JonFromVA]

I don't think anyone is going to argue that the Cavs are in the same tier as the Celtics. You can nitpick certain matchups and do pie in the sky what-ifs but, objectively, the Cavs and Celtics are obviously not in the same tier.

Then there's the Knicks. You mentioned depth which I wanted to address specifically.

1) Depth is pretty irrelevant when it comes to the playoffs. Can it win you a few extra games in the regular season? Sure? Can it hold you over while guys are injured? Sure but Thibs is clearly not a coach who cares very much about a deep bench

2) Even if we assume that depth does matter. This is the top 10 players on the Knicks:

Brunson, OG, Mikal, Hart, KAT, McBride, Achuiwa, Payne, Robinson, Shamet. Throw in guys like TJ Warren and Chuma Okeke for good measure and you're telling me that's not a deep team? They're deep at every position and half the team are guys who are positionless forwards who can shoot, defend, and handle the ball.

If we're talking about a specific matchup against the Cavs, the Knicks would be happy to let the Cavs beat them in the paint because that means your 2 best offensive players are locked down. The Knicks still have a rebounding advantage, have much better shooters and wing creators, and now they actually have spacing for Brunson to work. Getting rid of Randle was absolutely a positive for them for both a matchup against the Cavs AND anyone else.

The Sixers aren't a great matchup for the Cavs either because neither Mobley nor Allen can defend Embiid and if Mobley isn't going to be taking 15ft jumpers he's gonna be pretty useless offensively because Embiid can just camp around the paint.

If the Cavs are insistent on having 2 non-shooting big men then they're going to have a poor playoff offense. There's no way around that. It's not like Allen or Mobley are prime Shaq either. They're OK post scorers who can't do much outside of 10ft. You can work with 1, you can't build an efficient playoff offense around 2 in the modern NBA

If the Cavs don't improve and the Celtics don't take a step back, no, the Cavs aren't in the Celtics' tier. But both are very possible with Holiday and Horford on the wrong side of 30, Porzingis going 6+ months not playing basketball, title hangovers, etc on the Celtics side, and plenty of possible avenues for improvement on the Cavs' side. The Cavs played three games against the Celtics in the playoffs last year with Mitchell and won one of them.

Achiuwa, Payne, Shamet, Warren, Okeke aren't playoff players. McBride may or may not be. And you've got concerns with health for OG and Robinson, made worse by Thibs playing guys into the ground. I'll believe the Knicks have a rebounding advantage once I see it-- the Knicks will be playing pretty small most of the year, and while Hart makes up for that some, that might make them average instead of bad at rebounding.

Embiid has been reliably stopped in every playoffs before the 2nd round his entire career. Special thanks to his knees, but it isn't as if chronically injured big men get healthier as they get older.

A team won the title with two non-shooting bigs as recently as ... the 2022 Golden State Warriors with Draymond and Looney. I wonder if our coach knows anyone who was on the staff that year to figure out how to make that work?

I don't really expect the Celtics to take a big enough step back and the Cavs to take a big enough step forward for that to matter.

To the 2nd point, yea those guys aren't playoff players but Thibs only plays 7 guys anyways. There is absolutely the risk of injury and just not having enough juice left come playoff time but my assumptions are just based on full health. It's impossible to handicap injuries so I won't even try.

The last point did make me chuckle, though. It's a lot easier to win with non-shooting big men when you have the 2 greatest shooters in NBA history on your team, unfortunately for the Cavs, they don't

So, you don't think Garland and Mitchell are going to look better (if healthy like you're assuming the Knicks will be) in an offense that creates more easy and open shots?

[toooskies]

If the Cavs don't improve and the Celtics don't take a step back, no, the Cavs aren't in the Celtics' tier. But both are very possible with Holiday and Horford on the wrong side of 30, Porzingis going 6+ months not playing basketball, title hangovers, etc on the Celtics side, and plenty of possible avenues for improvement on the Cavs' side. The Cavs played three games against the Celtics in the playoffs last year with Mitchell and won one of them.

Achiuwa, Payne, Shamet, Warren, Okeke aren't playoff players. McBride may or may not be. And you've got concerns with health for OG and Robinson, made worse by Thibs playing guys into the ground. I'll believe the Knicks have a rebounding advantage once I see it-- the Knicks will be playing pretty small most of the year, and while Hart makes up for that some, that might make them average instead of bad at rebounding.

Embiid has been reliably stopped in every playoffs before the 2nd round his entire career. Special thanks to his knees, but it isn't as if chronically injured big men get healthier as they get older.

A team won the title with two non-shooting bigs as recently as ... the 2022 Golden State Warriors with Draymond and Looney. I wonder if our coach knows anyone who was on the staff that year to figure out how to make that work?

I don't really expect the Celtics to take a big enough step back and the Cavs to take a big enough step forward for that to matter.

To the 2nd point, yea those guys aren't playoff players but Thibs only plays 7 guys anyways. There is absolutely the risk of injury and just not having enough juice left come playoff time but my assumptions are just based on full health. It's impossible to handicap injuries so I won't even try.

The last point did make me chuckle, though. It's a lot easier to win with non-shooting big men when you have the 2 greatest shooters in NBA history on your team, unfortunately for the Cavs, they don't

So, you don't think Garland and Mitchell are going to look better (if healthy like you're assuming the Knicks will be) in an offense that creates more easy and open shots?

You could argue that Garland and Mitchell actually might not like the "easy" shots.

Mitchell and Garland are both pretty good at the hard ones-- before last season, Garland was in the top 5 all-time on made deep 3s. Both Mitchell and Garland topped the NBA last year in step-back three efficiency. Mitchell came to Cleveland from an offensive guru's system in Utah with Quin Snyder and he's shot at or above his career average in Cleveland. They shot much, much better on pull-up threes last year than they did on catch-and-shoots.

[jasonxxx102]

If the Cavs don't improve and the Celtics don't take a step back, no, the Cavs aren't in the Celtics' tier. But both are very possible with Holiday and Horford on the wrong side of 30, Porzingis going 6+ months not playing basketball, title hangovers, etc on the Celtics side, and plenty of possible avenues for improvement on the Cavs' side. The Cavs played three games against the Celtics in the playoffs last year with Mitchell and won one of them.

Achiuwa, Payne, Shamet, Warren, Okeke aren't playoff players. McBride may or may not be. And you've got concerns with health for OG and Robinson, made worse by Thibs playing guys into the ground. I'll believe the Knicks have a rebounding advantage once I see it-- the Knicks will be playing pretty small most of the year, and while Hart makes up for that some, that might make them average instead of bad at rebounding.

Embiid has been reliably stopped in every playoffs before the 2nd round his entire career. Special thanks to his knees, but it isn't as if chronically injured big men get healthier as they get older.

A team won the title with two non-shooting bigs as recently as ... the 2022 Golden State Warriors with Draymond and Looney. I wonder if our coach knows anyone who was on the staff that year to figure out how to make that work?

I don't really expect the Celtics to take a big enough step back and the Cavs to take a big enough step forward for that to matter.

To the 2nd point, yea those guys aren't playoff players but Thibs only plays 7 guys anyways. There is absolutely the risk of injury and just not having enough juice left come playoff time but my assumptions are just based on full health. It's impossible to handicap injuries so I won't even try.

The last point did make me chuckle, though. It's a lot easier to win with non-shooting big men when you have the 2 greatest shooters in NBA history on your team, unfortunately for the Cavs, they don't

So, you don't think Garland and Mitchell are going to look better (if healthy like you're assuming the Knicks will be) in an offense that creates more easy and open shots?

I never said or implied they aren't going to look better in an offense that *supposedly* will create more easy and open shots. I am in the camp that coaching is more overrated than not. JBs offense sucked, there is no denying that, but how much better can another system be with all the same players who have the same limitations. You can improve things around the margins but you're not going to make some massive change.

Not to mention... Neither of those players have anywhere near the gravity of Steph or Klay so you can't even scheme the same way you would in GS where you can use Curry off ball, run him through 3 screens and either get a good looking 3 or a slip to the rim.

[toooskies]

I don't really expect the Celtics to take a big enough step back and the Cavs to take a big enough step forward for that to matter.

To the 2nd point, yea those guys aren't playoff players but Thibs only plays 7 guys anyways. There is absolutely the risk of injury and just not having enough juice left come playoff time but my assumptions are just based on full health. It's impossible to handicap injuries so I won't even try.

The last point did make me chuckle, though. It's a lot easier to win with non-shooting big men when you have the 2 greatest shooters in NBA history on your team, unfortunately for the Cavs, they don't

So, you don't think Garland and Mitchell are going to look better (if healthy like you're assuming the Knicks will be) in an offense that creates more easy and open shots?

I never said or implied they aren't going to look better in an offense that *supposedly* will create more easy and open shots. I am in the camp that coaching is more overrated than not. JBs offense sucked, there is no denying that, but how much better can another system be with all the same players who have the same limitations. You can improve things around the margins but you're not going to make some massive change.

Not to mention... Neither of those players have anywhere near the gravity of Steph or Klay so you can't even scheme the same way you would in GS where you can use Curry off ball, run him through 3 screens and either get a good looking 3 or a slip to the rim.

I think the team would be very happy with Mitchell or Garland getting open from three if the defense decided not to guard them in that action.

[jasonxxx102]

This is a good thought experiment

Where are Garland and Mitchell going to make improvements in their game besides at the margins? With Mobley it’s fairly obvious that he can add skills that can improve his game dramatically

Garland going into year 6 and Mitchell going into year 8. Even if they get a few more open shots per game, what’s that going to add?

Those guys are what they are.

[JujitsuFlip]

This is a good thought experiment

Where are Garland and Mitchell going to make improvements in their game besides at the margins? With Mobley it’s fairly obvious that he can add skills that can improve his game dramatically

Garland going into year 6 and Mitchell going into year 8. Even if they get a few more open shots per game, what’s that going to add?

Those guys are what they are.

Garland is allegedly going to shoot 9 shots from deep, per game this season.

[gflem]

This is a good thought experiment

Where are Garland and Mitchell going to make improvements in their game besides at the margins? With Mobley it’s fairly obvious that he can add skills that can improve his game dramatically

Garland going into year 6 and Mitchell going into year 8. Even if they get a few more open shots per game, what’s that going to add?

Those guys are what they are.

Garland is allegedly going to shoot 9 shots from deep, per game this season.

I hope Garland does take 8-9 shots from deep per game. I would rather see him shoot than turn the ball over when he over dribbles. I believe that his biggest growth potential is cutting down the turnovers, and being more effective offensively off ball.

[JujitsuFlip]

This is a good thought experiment

Where are Garland and Mitchell going to make improvements in their game besides at the margins? With Mobley it’s fairly obvious that he can add skills that can improve his game dramatically

Garland going into year 6 and Mitchell going into year 8. Even if they get a few more open shots per game, what’s that going to add?

Those guys are what they are.

Garland is allegedly going to shoot 9 shots from deep, per game this season.

I hope Garland does take 8-9 shots from deep per game. I would rather see him shoot than turn the ball over when he over dribbles. I believe that his biggest growth potential is cutting down the turnovers, and being more effective offensively off ball.

Yeah, his assist to turnover ratio took a hit last season.

Hopefully by Kenny making the team play less iso ball will cut down on the unforced turnovers.

[jbk1234]

This is a good thought experiment

Where are Garland and Mitchell going to make improvements in their game besides at the margins? With Mobley it’s fairly obvious that he can add skills that can improve his game dramatically

Garland going into year 6 and Mitchell going into year 8. Even if they get a few more open shots per game, what’s that going to add?

Those guys are what they are.

I feel like breaking your jaw midseason and losing 20 lbs, that Garland didn't have to lose, mattered more than most Cavs fans care to admit. Also it didn't help that Garland came back for the toughest part of the schedule and Wade, Mobley, Mitchell, and Strus almost immediately went down with injuries. That three starters and a key reserve.

Garland is still only 24 years old. There's no guarantee he's at his peak.

[ijspeelman]

This is a good thought experiment

Where are Garland and Mitchell going to make improvements in their game besides at the margins? With Mobley it’s fairly obvious that he can add skills that can improve his game dramatically

Garland going into year 6 and Mitchell going into year 8. Even if they get a few more open shots per game, what’s that going to add?

Those guys are what they are.

Off-ball skills. Would help unlock more of the offense

[jasonxxx102]

This is a good thought experiment

Where are Garland and Mitchell going to make improvements in their game besides at the margins? With Mobley it’s fairly obvious that he can add skills that can improve his game dramatically

Garland going into year 6 and Mitchell going into year 8. Even if they get a few more open shots per game, what’s that going to add?

Those guys are what they are.

I feel like breaking your jaw midseason and losing 20 lbs, that Garland didn't have to lose, mattered more than most Cavs fans care to admit. Also it didn't help that Garland came back for the toughest part of the schedule and Wade, Mobley, Mitchell, and Strus almost immediately went down with injuries. That three starters and a key reserve.

Garland is still only 24 years old. There's no guarantee he's at his peak.

I think that's fair and I kind of discount last season for Garland anyways. I think he's a solid 23-8 guy who can push 40% on volume from 3.

and to speelmans point above I do think he can improve his off-ball skills quite a bit.

but coming back to the team outlook in this context, I don't know how that changes this roster all that much when it comes to the playoffs.

In my opinion. Someone needs to be better than Mitchell for this Cavs team to be a contender. I can see an alternate reality where Mobley is that. It's getting faint but I still have a tiny bit of hope. I don't see that for Garland, I think he's just really good and that's probably it.

[toooskies]

This is a good thought experiment

Where are Garland and Mitchell going to make improvements in their game besides at the margins? With Mobley it’s fairly obvious that he can add skills that can improve his game dramatically

Garland going into year 6 and Mitchell going into year 8. Even if they get a few more open shots per game, what’s that going to add?

Those guys are what they are.

I feel like breaking your jaw midseason and losing 20 lbs, that Garland didn't have to lose, mattered more than most Cavs fans care to admit. Also it didn't help that Garland came back for the toughest part of the schedule and Wade, Mobley, Mitchell, and Strus almost immediately went down with injuries. That three starters and a key reserve.

Garland is still only 24 years old. There's no guarantee he's at his peak.

I think that's fair and I kind of discount last season for Garland anyways. I think he's a solid 23-8 guy who can push 40% on volume from 3.

and to speelmans point above I do think he can improve his off-ball skills quite a bit.

but coming back to the team outlook in this context, I don't know how that changes this roster all that much when it comes to the playoffs.

In my opinion. Someone needs to be better than Mitchell for this Cavs team to be a contender. I can see an alternate reality where Mobley is that. It's getting faint but I still have a tiny bit of hope. I don't see that for Garland, I think he's just really good and that's probably it.

I don't see it that way. Tatum in a shooting slump is a worse player than Mitchell and slumping Tatum just won a title as his team's best player.

[JonFromVA]

This is a good thought experiment

Where are Garland and Mitchell going to make improvements in their game besides at the margins? With Mobley it’s fairly obvious that he can add skills that can improve his game dramatically

Garland going into year 6 and Mitchell going into year 8. Even if they get a few more open shots per game, what’s that going to add?

Those guys are what they are.

Space would make huge difference, and that's Kenny challenge to either scheme it out of the starting lineup or get it out of other lineups; or if that fails for Koby to address it via trades.

As for gravity, Garland and Mitchell both have that and they can both create on the ball too. The question is whether Kenny can push the right buttons so defenses feel they have no good options like they felt when trying to defend Steph, Klay, and Draymond.

That means having 5 guys playing together rather than taking turns ISO'ing. It also means sticking with an offense long enough so, defenses can't just make a single adjustment and counter your new move. The Warriors always had layers to their offense.

[JonFromVA]

Garland is allegedly going to shoot 9 shots from deep, per game this season.

I hope Garland does take 8-9 shots from deep per game. I would rather see him shoot than turn the ball over when he over dribbles. I believe that his biggest growth potential is cutting down the turnovers, and being more effective offensively off ball.

Yeah, his assist to turnover ratio took a hit last season.

Hopefully by Kenny making the team play less iso ball will cut down on the unforced turnovers.

Garland was uncharacteristically sloppy at times, I write it off to his injury and simply not feeling right on the floor.

All things being equal, a faster paced ball movement offense will generate more turnovers especially while guys are still figuring it out.

[JujitsuFlip]

I hope Garland does take 8-9 shots from deep per game. I would rather see him shoot than turn the ball over when he over dribbles. I believe that his biggest growth potential is cutting down the turnovers, and being more effective offensively off ball.

Yeah, his assist to turnover ratio took a hit last season.

Hopefully by Kenny making the team play less iso ball will cut down on the unforced turnovers.

Garland was uncharacteristically sloppy at times, I write it off to his injury and simply not feeling right on the floor.

All things being equal, a faster paced ball movement offense will generate more turnovers especially while guys are still figuring it out.

Yeah but hopefully for the team as a whole, not just Garland flipping his A:T on its head.