OT: Lonnie Walker, Updates

[Homerclease]

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Bobby Manning asks, "How likely it is that another team signs him." After that performance last night, pretty likely.

Here's something to think about. If the Celtics don't sign Walker and let him hit the open market, which teams might pick him up?

Here's a few candidates: The Knicks, Sixers, Bucks, and Heat. Would anyone like to see Lonnie Walker getting hot for any of those teams? Would anyone like to see Eric Spoelstra subbing Lonnie Walker in, early in the fourth quarter of a close game in round one of the 2025 playoffs?

It only costs a tax penalty to sign him. Wyc has said they have money. Walker wants to be in Boston. Signing him is a lot better path than the alternative.

Add the Nuggets to that list. The tax thing is a logical argument until you factor in that ownership has openly said they don’t give AF about the money. This team is one PP injury away from having nobody on the bench being able to create with the ball in their hands

[redslastlaugh]

The Celtics should sign him now and dump Springer at the trade deadline. The tax isn't calculated until the end of the year. There is no penalty for the 15th man at the moment. Even if it takes giving up a second rounder to dump Springer (meaning that they lost two 2nd rounders in the Springer fiasco - Brad can't win every trade), I would still do it. Walkers minimum versus Springer's 4+M contract will provide significant tax savings at the end of the year.

I think that the decision is pretty obvious.

Brads been on fire for so long, really since he took over. If he acquires Springer at the deadline for a 2nd only to pay another 2nd to dump him before the next deadline, it would prove he’s human after all. Everyone takes an L at some point.

They could also waive Jaden and stretch him and therefore spread his $4 million payments over three years.

[ConstableGeneva]

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I still can't believe #1. Show me his red flag!! Worse players (skill-wise) have been given multi-year contracts.

More on #2:

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Tax computations aren't done until end of reg season. They can sign Walker now to a non-guaranteed then find a taker for Springer before the deadline (I'm sure Hornets or [insert tanking team] wouldn't mind taking a flyer + 2nd round pick).

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Walker fans think he for sure cracks the 9-man rotation. Who the hell knows what Mazzulla thinks.

[celtxman]

The Celtics should sign him now and dump Springer at the trade deadline. The tax isn't calculated until the end of the year. There is no penalty for the 15th man at the moment. Even if it takes giving up a second rounder to dump Springer (meaning that they lost two 2nd rounders in the Springer fiasco - Brad can't win every trade), I would still do it. Walkers minimum versus Springer's 4+M contract will provide significant tax savings at the end of the year.

I think that the decision is pretty obvious.

Brads been on fire for so long, really since he took over. If he acquires Springer at the deadline for a 2nd only to pay another 2nd to dump him before the next deadline, it would prove he’s human after all. Everyone takes an L at some point.

They could also waive Jaden and stretch him and therefore spread his $4 million payments over three years.

I understand what you are saying with the Celtics taking the "L" for 2 second round picks, but they got Walker for nothing. Stevens, right from the beginning gave up a 1st for Horford and never looked back. That's how you use these picks if they go this route.

[celtxman]

Read on Twitter

Bobby Manning asks, "How likely it is that another team signs him." After that performance last night, pretty likely.

Here's something to think about. If the Celtics don't sign Walker and let him hit the open market, which teams might pick him up?

Here's a few candidates: The Knicks, Sixers, Bucks, and Heat. Would anyone like to see Lonnie Walker getting hot for any of those teams? Would anyone like to see Eric Spoelstra subbing Lonnie Walker in, early in the fourth quarter of a close game in round one of the 2025 playoffs?

It only costs a tax penalty to sign him. Wyc has said they have money. Walker wants to be in Boston. Signing him is a lot better path than the alternative.

Add the Nuggets to that list. The tax thing is a logical argument until you factor in that ownership has openly said they don’t give AF about the money. This team is one PP injury away from having nobody on the bench being able to create with the ball in their hands

100%. He has a skill we can use and is lost cost quality depth. Imagine handing him over to the Knicks for nothing.

[celtxman]

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I still can't believe #1. Show me his red flag!! Worse players (skill-wise) have been given multi-year contracts.

More on #2:

Read on Twitter

Tax computations aren't done until end of reg season. They can sign Walker now to a non-guaranteed then find a taker for Springer before the deadline (I'm sure Hornets or [insert tanking team] wouldn't mind taking a flyer + 2nd round pick).

Read on Twitter

Walker fans think he for sure cracks the 9-man rotation. Who the hell knows what Mazzulla thinks.

Great info about tax computations at the end of the prior season. So they have all season to figure out the money....OR they follow through and keep saying money is no object.

[Shak_Celts]

Put it on the table of what we know now:

Springer is young @22 and can defend. Most of his positive is potential. 4m flat. He’s also a 2nd cost.

Walker is more of known commodity, not great but proven useful. Can shoot (sometimes), can get hot (sometimes), can pass a LITTLE bit. He’s done all of it in the playoffs, against a good team. He’ll cost about 12m (I think).


You may need to give up another 2nd to send Springer out. So, I’m not sure what y’all would do but this isn’t about what someone can do now, it’s about the money! I know “scared money don’t make money” but that’s easier to say when it’s not my millions. I’d choose Walker if it didn’t have money attached or if his cost was equal to springer’s but right now given all we know, I’m going the cheaper route. They were spending money hand over fist and that’s why Cs are up for sale apparently.

[ConstableGeneva]

Put it on the table of what we know now:

Springer is young @22 and can defend. Most of his positive is potential. 4m flat. He’s also a 2nd cost.

Walker is more of known commodity, not great but proven useful. Can shoot (sometimes), can get hot (sometimes), can pass a LITTLE bit. He’s done all of it in the playoffs, against a good team. He’ll cost about 12m (I think).


You may need to give up another 2nd to send Springer out. So, I’m not sure what y’all would do but this isn’t about what someone can do now, it’s about the money! I know “scared money don’t make money” but that’s easier to say when it’s not my millions. I’d choose Walker if it didn’t have money attached or if his cost was equal to springer’s but right now given all we know, I’m going the cheaper route. They were spending money hand over fist and that’s why Cs are up for sale apparently.

Going from Springer's $4M to Walker's $2M vet minimum saves the Celtics around $8M.

Assumption here is Cs stay at 14 filled roster spots. They trade Springer without any salary coming back.

[Celts17Pride]

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[Green89]

Put it on the table of what we know now:

Springer is young @22 and can defend. Most of his positive is potential. 4m flat. He’s also a 2nd cost.

Walker is more of known commodity, not great but proven useful. Can shoot (sometimes), can get hot (sometimes), can pass a LITTLE bit. He’s done all of it in the playoffs, against a good team. He’ll cost about 12m (I think).


You may need to give up another 2nd to send Springer out. So, I’m not sure what y’all would do but this isn’t about what someone can do now, it’s about the money! I know “scared money don’t make money” but that’s easier to say when it’s not my millions. I’d choose Walker if it didn’t have money attached or if his cost was equal to springer’s but right now given all we know, I’m going the cheaper route. They were spending money hand over fist and that’s why Cs are up for sale apparently.

Going from Springer's $4M to Walker's $2M vet minimum saves the Celtics around $8M.

Assumption here is Cs stay at 14 filled roster spots. They trade Springer without any salary coming back.

Springer's defense is good, but let's face it, how many minutes would he even get this year? Lonnie would get a ton. If it means trading Springer to keep Walker, then you have to do that.

[Parasite]

I think you have to keep Walker. He can single-handedly win you games from the bench if he gets hot and he is known for doing exactly that at times. We are in win now mode. A backcourt bench of Pritchard/Walker is a nightmare for opposing bench defenses.

[Hal14]

It would be a real mistake to let Walker go. And I'm not talking about this year. I don't think his impact this year will move the needle much on a championship caliber team like this.

The real impact is for 2025-26 and beyond. Let's get real here. The Celtics will be blown up. It will likely be after this season, but even if not, it will DEFINITELY be after the 2025-26 season. It's pretty unlikely that KP is getting extended. His injury history is ridiculous. In fact, I think that it's more likely that he gets traded next year as an expiring contract than that he gets extended. His days are numbered. Same thing for Jrue. It's very unlikely that he will see out the remaining years of his contract in Boston. As the C's look to dump salary, an old Jrue and an always injured KP are the OBVIOUS big contracts to discard.

The C's need to build with a plan toward the future. The core in the next 3-5 years will be JT, JB, and White (maybe Pritchard/Hauser). They'll need to develop the talent on the margins to stay on top. Walker provides exactly this type of opportunity. And he is a buy low candidate at the moment. You can get a good NBA player cheaply.

The Celtics should sign him now and dump Springer at the trade deadline. The tax isn't calculated until the end of the year. There is no penalty for the 15th man at the moment. Even if it takes giving up a second rounder to dump Springer (meaning that they lost two 2nd rounders in the Springer fiasco - Brad can't win every trade), I would still do it. Walkers minimum versus Springer's 4+M contract will provide significant tax savings at the end of the year.

I think that the decision is pretty obvious.

What makes the decision so obvious?

Walker has bounced around the league. ONly contract he could get last season was a vet min deal on a bad nets team. He's a volume scorer who scores inefficiently (below league average TS% in all 6 seasons of his career). Doesn't pass, doesn't rebound or defend.

YOu also say the Celtics need to "build a plan toward the future" and "they'll need to develop the talent on the margins to stay on top" so it seems contradictory to suggest keeping the player (Walker) who is over 3 years older than Springer..

I'm interested to see how tomorrow night's game goes. Who plays, how much playing time certain guys get, how well guys play.. That should give us more answers. And it'll give us more of a sample size than just 3 or 4 preseason games, which are pretty meaningless games to begin with..so having a 5 game preseason sample instead of just 4 at least gives us more data, more film so we're not making completely baseless claims here

[Hal14]

Read on Twitter

Bobby Manning asks, "How likely it is that another team signs him." After that performance last night, pretty likely.

Here's something to think about. If the Celtics don't sign Walker and let him hit the open market, which teams might pick him up?

Here's a few candidates: The Knicks, Sixers, Bucks, and Heat. Would anyone like to see Lonnie Walker getting hot for any of those teams? Would anyone like to see Eric Spoelstra subbing Lonnie Walker in, early in the fourth quarter of a close game in round one of the 2025 playoffs?

It only costs a tax penalty to sign him. Wyc has said they have money. Walker wants to be in Boston. Signing him is a lot better path than the alternative.

Add the Nuggets to that list. The tax thing is a logical argument until you factor in that ownership has openly said they don’t give AF about the money. This team is one PP injury away from having nobody on the bench being able to create with the ball in their hands

100%. He has a skill we can use and is lost cost quality depth. Imagine handing him over to the Knicks for nothing.

All of those teams had the entire offseason to sign walker if they wanted to. THey chose not to.

Walker was also a FA in the offseason of 2023..those teams all passed on him and he signed a min deal with a bad nets team.

He looked pretty good in last night's game but let's be real here. It was a preseason game that means basically nothing. Against a raptors team that's one of the worst in the league, playing without Barrett, Quickley, Walter, etc.

And everything he did in last night's game, is all stuff he's already done in the NBA before. Last night's game should not impact the desire these other teams may or may not have to sign him.

Brad himself said that we're likely leaving the 15th spot open and that the exhibit 10 guys will likely end up in Maine:
https://www.si.com/nba/celtics/top-stories/brad-stevens-sheds-light-on-plans-for-celtics-final-roster-spot-oshae-brissett-svi-mykhailiuk-01j56a1rdq92

The Celtics left the 15th roster spot open last season too.

And if the Celtics DGAF about money, why did they give Hauser $12 mil a year when he was eligible to get like $20mil? Why'd they give Pritchard like $8 mil a year when they could have paid him more? Queta, Tillman, Kornet, Jrue, KP all just signed contracts for less money than what the team could have paid them. White could have waited a year and made a lot more $ but the team was clearly motivated to sign him now - for less $. We also traded out of the 1st round in the 2023 draft to save $.

[Shak_Celts]

Put it on the table of what we know now:

Springer is young @22 and can defend. Most of his positive is potential. 4m flat. He’s also a 2nd cost.

Walker is more of known commodity, not great but proven useful. Can shoot (sometimes), can get hot (sometimes), can pass a LITTLE bit. He’s done all of it in the playoffs, against a good team. He’ll cost about 12m (I think).


You may need to give up another 2nd to send Springer out. So, I’m not sure what y’all would do but this isn’t about what someone can do now, it’s about the money! I know “scared money don’t make money” but that’s easier to say when it’s not my millions. I’d choose Walker if it didn’t have money attached or if his cost was equal to springer’s but right now given all we know, I’m going the cheaper route. They were spending money hand over fist and that’s why Cs are up for sale apparently.

Going from Springer's $4M to Walker's $2M vet minimum saves the Celtics around $8M.

Assumption here is Cs stay at 14 filled roster spots. They trade Springer without any salary coming back.

Yes, I know, that’s why I brought up trading Springer would cost a 2nd (or 2) and we already gave up one. I was just adding the cost if Walker is 15th because they may like Springer too, even more if we are forced to go with youth and short money soon. Brad does give picks away like candy but not for someone he doesnt think already has the ability to play for this team. He gave them away but not without a good return on investment.

[Bill Lumbergh]

...
I'm interested to see how tomorrow night's game goes. Who plays, how much playing time certain guys get, how well guys play.. That should give us more answers. And it'll give us more of a sample size than just 3 or 4 preseason games, which are pretty meaningless games to begin with..

One could say that the sample size isn't 3 or 4 preseason games, though. They've both been in the league for a few years. You could compare careers, age difference notwithstanding. I'm curious, who do you think would be more likely to play effective minutes this year, Springer or Walker? I don't particularly care about a few years from now, personally. We need to completely sell out on winning now before the salaries and punitive taxes force ownership to dump some big salaries. To my eye, so far, it seems that Walker would be far more likely than Springer to have a positive impact this year (and I am a huge fan of Springer's defense), but I am interested in hearing which you think would be better this year.

[Hal14]

...
I'm interested to see how tomorrow night's game goes. Who plays, how much playing time certain guys get, how well guys play.. That should give us more answers. And it'll give us more of a sample size than just 3 or 4 preseason games, which are pretty meaningless games to begin with..

One could say that the sample size isn't 3 or 4 preseason games, though. They've both been in the league for a few years. You could compare careers, age difference notwithstanding. I'm curious, who do you think would be more likely to play effective minutes this year, Springer or Walker? I don't particularly care about a few years from now, personally. We need to completely sell out on winning now before the salaries and punitive taxes force ownership to dump some big salaries. To my eye, so far, it seems that Walker would be far more likely than Springer to have a positive impact this year (and I am a huge fan of Springer's defense), but I am interested in hearing which you think would be better this year.

I'll let you know after tomorrow night's game.

But I also think it's kind of a moot point. They're not really in competition with each other. Springer has a guaranteed contract. Walker is exhibit 10. Walker is moreso competing with the strong likelihood (according to Brad himself) that they'll roll with 14 guys to start the season..

The real question is, "is what Walker brings to the table worth it? Does it make sense to sign him, given the other 14 guys on the roster and what they bring to the table..or does it make more sense to leave that spot open, and save around $8-10 mil on the tax bill, and have more flexibility for future moves?"

[Bill Lumbergh]

...
I'm interested to see how tomorrow night's game goes. Who plays, how much playing time certain guys get, how well guys play.. That should give us more answers. And it'll give us more of a sample size than just 3 or 4 preseason games, which are pretty meaningless games to begin with..

One could say that the sample size isn't 3 or 4 preseason games, though. They've both been in the league for a few years. You could compare careers, age difference notwithstanding. I'm curious, who do you think would be more likely to play effective minutes this year, Springer or Walker? I don't particularly care about a few years from now, personally. We need to completely sell out on winning now before the salaries and punitive taxes force ownership to dump some big salaries. To my eye, so far, it seems that Walker would be far more likely than Springer to have a positive impact this year (and I am a huge fan of Springer's defense), but I am interested in hearing which you think would be better this year.

I'll let you know after tomorrow night's game.

But I also think it's kind of a moot point. They're not really in competition with each other. Springer has a guaranteed contract. Walker is exhibit 10. Walker is moreso competing with the strong likelihood (according to Brad himself) that they'll roll with 14 guys to start the season..

The real question is, "is what Walker brings to the table worth it? Does it make sense to sign him, given the other 14 guys on the roster and what they bring to the table..or does it make more sense to leave that spot open, and save around $8-10 mil on the tax bill, and have more flexibility for future moves?"

Not necessarily moot. Brad could probably move off of Springer's contract by attaching a second if he wanted to keep Walker and still retain an open spot and actually save ~8M doing so (if Brad could pull that off like Sac just did). I was more curious about who you think could better contribute this year. I think it's Walker.

[playa-hater]

Boston has some potentially high second round picks coming.. I would be p***** if we gave up.Someone knows early second round is up. Especially just to get rid of someone...

[djFan71]

I tend to agree with Hal. Lonnie's looked nice and could be end up being a solid addition, but I'm not gonna fret over it. If the owners wanna commit to paying him $10M and limiting future flexibility, great. If they try to stash him and Maine and he signs elsewhere, I wish him luck. I know he had the one LAL playoff game, but I'm not concerned about him coming back to haunt us in the playoffs.

[Celts17Pride]

Celtics are not moving on from Lonnie Walker. Pritchard, Walker and Hauser makes the 2nd unit deadly. In for a penny, in for a pound. Celtics will go with 15 players or move on from someone else. Most likely Springer in my opinion