Who starts?

[CDM_Stats]

Kuminga/Wiggs/Green 109.1 drtg
Kuminga/Green 108.3 drtg

Is it crap defence?

One wouldnt be able to tell good defense or bad defense from something as basic as DRtg. Especially one that is only showing percentages of the team - the DRtg thing on the lineups tab isnt very useful, and when it is useful its when its looking at 5 man units. I wasn't aware sites still put that data with pairings or incomplete lineups, its already shown to be highly suspect at an individual level already, as it weighs certain things equally across all 5 players despite the reality not being that

But if you're asking me if Kuminga's defense is below average and hurtful to the team, yes, it is. Actual advanced metrics have JK as below average across the board, though some may him close to neutral? Ones that tend to use DRtg in their formula, funny enough.. the ones that use situational stats and focus on individual defense do not, and the ones that do best at accounting for off-ball defense have him even lower

I dont argue that Kuminga is good or avg defender. Maybe is below avg and that is ok. I argue that Green with Kuminga on the floor with other 3 players have good defence and Kuminga was the part of the best units from last year. Drtg is usfull stat for units. The best unit from last year was

PG Curry
SG Klay or Podz (400min)
SF Wiggs
PF Kuminga
C Green

106.7 drtg and +15.3 nrtg

Also Davis started 16 time last year and 11 of them was negative. Kuminga started 46 time and was positive 26 time.

Ok but we're kinda circling back to what I said in the first place - the needs we had then don't drive the ones we have now. With Melton in place at SG, there's real reason to believe Looney can slot back into the C position where he thrived, with competent defense in front of him. Is it a guarantee? No, but that version of Looney had more impact than last year's version of Kuminga, so it shouldnt be a foregone conclusion that JK will be in the best lineup. Him, Wiggins and Looney will likely be battling it out for the final 2 spots in "best lineup"

[Crazy-Canuck]

Kerr is still experimenting with the starters. 3rd iteration (steph, podz, moody, dray, and slomo) has been the best so far, but far from good.

[EvanZ]

Steph/Melton/Moody/Wiggins/Draymond is probably the best lineup.

Yep I’m still obviously right.

[Jester_]

Moody genuinely just needs minutes. He is straight up better than Kuminga at this point.

[TB]

Steph/Melton/Moody/Wiggins/Draymond is probably the best lineup.

Yep I’m still obviously right.

I think your statement may be correct but also not an answer to the thread question

[all left]

Steph/Melton/Moody/Wiggins/Draymond is probably the best lineup.

Yep I’m still obviously right.

This may be the best closing lineup in many, perhaps most, situations that aren't blowouts. But as a regular season starting lineup it does not address the problems likely to arise from an aging Dray playing too many minutes at the five. With all the quality very big big men out there now, he will get beat up by mid season if he plays a lot of minutes against starting centers. Apart from the issues of injuries large and small and consequent missed games or decline in his ability to defend at the level he is capable of when healthy, I think Dray perhaps more volatile as he gets more beat up and stressed in the course of the season. So as I said in another thread, I think its best to limit his center minutes as much as possible.

The way its looking right now I would probably favor a Steph Melton Wiggins Dray Looney starting lineup, with Dray's minutes at the 5 limited to 10 or less, TJD as the second line 5 and SloMo getting some later rotation minutes as a facilitiating Dray-lite facilitating 5.

This does push Moody out of the starting lineup and makes the minutes issues re Moody/Hield and Wiggins/Kuminga (and in some contexts Anderson) more acute. Wiggins is going to have to show close to his 2022 form on defense and in rebounding (which I think for reasons stated by CDM on several threads is made more likely playing alongside Melton in the starting lineup) and chip in 17 points or so a game to keep clear edge on Kuminga. It would make things a lot simpler if Kuminga's defense and rebounding ratchets up a level, making it easier to play a Kuminga/Moody plus a 5 frontcourt at times.

Moody' play in preseason so far at least is making the need to find minutes for him harder to ignore. Not the worst problem to have a couple of young players rising to the next level at once.

My main rotation concern from pre-season evidence so far (voiced by somebody else earlier, I don't remember on what thread) is second line initiation of the half-court offense. They seem to be looking to Podz for this, but he doesn't seem to have improved his ability to finish significantly over the summer. His three and his ability to get it off more quickly with confidence seems to have improved, which might help in the long run. But once Podz is facing regular season, better organized defenses with fewer pre-season-like holes ( created by coaches experimenting, players who will never see regular season minutes in the pre-season rotation, etc.) his ability to distribute likely will be diminished by his inability to finish-- fewer defenders sliding over to help, etc. means both fewer passing lanes for open shots and more defenders able to stay home generally bogging down the offense.

I know they want to rain threes, but the first step is getting people open consistently. They will be relying a lot on facilitation from elsewhere-- Dray as always, but also Melton and SloMo. The latter two being new to the system it may take time to work this out; I hope it works.

[Crazy-Canuck]

I'd like to see steph, melton, moody, dray, and loon start vs the Pistons.

[Nvnervous45]

I hate the idea of wiggins guarding the 4. Guys like ad, sabonis, gordon, Wagner, would just play bully ball all night.

[Crazy-Canuck]

Read on Twitter

Music to cdm's ears.

[Crazy-Canuck]

Read on Twitter

So 1 more game of experimenting, then the finalized rotation on Friday.

[CDM_Stats]

Read on Twitter

Music to cdm's ears.

Our 6th men typically get 25 min or so…

That said, Hield has started out pretty well so far… if he plays like that, sure give him minutes. But history says the other shoe will drop, and if Kerr is locking him into a role like he does with everyone except Moody, then it won’t be long before Hield becomes that guy that fans hate

[Jester_]

Read on Twitter

Music to cdm's ears.

Our 6th men typically get 25 min or so…

That said, Hield has started out pretty well so far… if he plays like that, sure give him minutes. But history says the other shoe will drop, and if Kerr is locking him into a role like he does with everyone except Moody, then it won’t be long before Hield becomes that guy that fans hate

Spoiler alert: he won't lol

[Anderson Hunt]

PG - Podzeimski
SG - Payton
C -- Looney
PF - Kuminga
SF - Wiggins

These guys need to go, especially Podzeimski, Kuminga, and Wiggins (in that order).

[clyde21]

honestly i like the starting unit we went with tonight

Steph
Wiggy
Minga
Dray
TJD

we make up for a lack of size at the 4/5 with good size at the 2/3, pretty athletic group that can switch defensively, and you have at least 3 plus passers at their positions in this unit

you let Podz lead the 2nd unit with Melton, Hield, Moody and bring in Loon accordingly.

[EvanZ]

Steph/Melton/Moody/JK/Draymond

Wiggins needs to earn it again.

[EvanZ]

If everyone hits the highest ceiling is

Steph
Moses
Wiggins
JK
Draymond

[thunderdunk]

Make the starting team situational based on matchups. The Dubs are again a Strength in Numbers team. Their second team has way outplayed their opponents' second teams. For Kerr, it may be a matter of handling egos more than anything.

[Dubs 707]

So yall wanna play green extended minutes at the 5?

Will he last 82 games and playoffs?

[EvanZ]

So yall wanna play green extended minutes at the 5?

Will he last 82 games and playoffs?

Will we get to the playoffs and specifically get higher than 8th seed to avoid OKC if he doesn't...that is the real question.

[GQ Hot Dog]

If everyone hits the highest ceiling is

Steph
Moses
Wiggins
JK
Draymond

This has Death Lineup potential. I could see this be our closing lineup each night even if TJD or Melton starts some nights for one of Moses or Wiggins.