2024-2025 Preseason Game 2: Orlando Magic (0-1) at San Antonio Spurs (0-1) - 8pm

[yoyojw17]

https://youtu.be/rTfOOR-MuWw?si=WkuL3qVMxrjpbu9b

Good watch. At the 7 minuteish mark he says that KCP took the day gam off to give Jett a chance start with our lineup. Discussions about him are pretty exciting. KCP is going to be a great addition to this team.

[VFX]

Wendell is good center. Not like our PG situation where vast majority of teams have better backup than our starters.

Goga can't spread floor, that creates problems with Banchero & rest of non shooters.
Isaac is treated as no shooter even when he makes shots. Isaac's bigger problem is fact he is not center nor knows how to play C.

After screens he won't roll, he never catches ally oops nor is good finisher around rim for a big.

It's just more offensive options being stripped from your already crappy offense. PGs who can't pick&roll, Cs without purpose other than being garbage men below rim.

Carter isn't great, and is often hurt, but he is nba starter at C. Something that neither Goga or Isaac are.

Exactly. I've made this point about 5 times this offseason. Beware getting rid of Carter for Bitadze or Isaac on the offensive end, and for Moe in the defensive side. I say that as a Goga fan.

This is refusing to weigh the differences in offensive and defensive impact relative to player role.

There is no point guard on this team "running offense". Carter should not be relied upon as an enormous outlet for lack of options on offense. Period.

If the idea is that Paolo and Franz are tasked with running everything, with a dual SG 3&D backcourt, then we should assume Center is the absolute last option offensively.

[pepe1991]

Wendell is good center. Not like our PG situation where vast majority of teams have better backup than our starters.

Goga can't spread floor, that creates problems with Banchero & rest of non shooters.
Isaac is treated as no shooter even when he makes shots. Isaac's bigger problem is fact he is not center nor knows how to play C.

After screens he won't roll, he never catches ally oops nor is good finisher around rim for a big.

It's just more offensive options being stripped from your already crappy offense. PGs who can't pick&roll, Cs without purpose other than being garbage men below rim.

Carter isn't great, and is often hurt, but he is nba starter at C. Something that neither Goga or Isaac are.

Exactly. I've made this point about 5 times this offseason. Beware getting rid of Carter for Bitadze or Isaac on the offensive end, and for Moe in the defensive side. I say that as a Goga fan.

This is refusing to weigh the differences in offensive and defensive impact relative to player role.

There is no point guard on this team "running offense". Carter should not be relied upon as an enormous outlet for lack of options on offense. Period.

If the idea is that Paolo and Franz are tasked with running everything, with a dual SG 3&D backcourt, then we should assume Center is the absolute last option offensively.

Or you are refusing to acknowledge value of low usage, solid defense, good at rebounding C who gives team without shooters option from perimeter ( 3 FGA/ around 36% accuracy) and 11-15 ppg on 62% TS. Again, on team that on most nights can't really buy a bucket, let alone efficient one.

And other starting scoring options this year, aside from Banchero ( to this date low efficiency) and Franz ( lost jumpshot) :
KCP- career 11 ppg
Suggs- career 11,5 ppg

And Carter, career 12,5 ppg. So it's not like he is Biyombo and alternatives are prime Klay and Ray Allen.

I'm not sure what type of C you even want? Lumbering big who doesn't leave paint? Because that will really help our clogged paint and crappy shooting. Brook Lopez but 18 years younger? That player isn't aveliable for us nor any other team. Victor? Who doesn't want him?

I don't get it. Worst part about Carter's game has nothing to do with his game, it's his crappy health. Rest of complaints are pretty much nitpicking and bickering arguments.

[VFX]

Or you are refusing to acknowledge value of low usage, solid defense, good at rebounding C who gives team without shooters option from perimeter ( 3 FGA/ around 36% accuracy) and 11-15 ppg on 62% TS. Again, on team that on most nights can't really buy a bucket, let alone efficient one.

And other starting scoring options this year, aside from Banchero ( to this date low efficiency) and Franz ( lost jumpshot) :
KCP- career 11 ppg
Suggs- career 11,5 ppg

And Carter, career 12,5 ppg. So it's not like he is Biyombo and alternatives are prime Klay and Ray Allen.

So what you are really saying is that you are OK with an extremely mediocre Center in every other facet because Orlando’s starting lineup is questionable offensively in every other aspect. He’s an average rebounder and team defender.

Sorry, that’s not a good enough argument to pay 4 guys decent money because you are willing to concede health issues for an occasional 3 point shot niche.

I'm not sure what type of C you even want? Lumbering big who doesn't leave paint? Because that will really help our clogged paint and crappy shooting. Brook Lopez but 18 years younger? That player isn't aveliable for us nor any other team. Victor? Who doesn't want him?

I don't get it. Worst part about Carter's game has nothing to do with his game, it's his crappy health. Rest of complaints are pretty much nitpicking and bickering arguments.

Paolo on offense last season struggled downhill/in the paint against smaller guards in space AND down low when teams felt comfortable rotating off Carter because he’s camped outside. You’d think that’s advantageous for Paolo but it isn’t. Turns out, a wall of bodies sealing him off makes finishing more difficult.

What worked at Duke was Mark Williams being able to finish above the rim on drop offs from Paolo when they doubled him. Carter simply can’t do that unless it’s a lob. The point is that a Center that actually creates space with their body down low, regardless of hitting outside shots, would probably help both Franz and Paolo more in half court sets. They now have 2 shooting guard outlets in the starting lineup to space the floor? What is really their excuse now?

If Paolo and Franz aren’t effective unless every other player is hitting outside shots on a 22 ranked offense, then your system isn’t working and you have bigger problems than making sure you have extreme big depth.

[SOUL]

The issue isn't that WCJ can't be upgraded, he should and could be (as should most roster spots over the next few years), but the clamoring over the offseason for guys like Claxton or other names I see just don't move the needle and aren't the answers either.

WCJ is also a great screener - look at any highlights of Franz getting downhill and how they use WCJ. He's not only some guy that hangs out on the perimeter. His defense also gets underrated. The most annoying thing about him is his up and down play at times, especially on offense, injuries, and up and down rebounding.

Our offense not being as good as it is yet... is because Franz and Paolo themselves aren't at the levels they should be at yet. Paolo is inefficient and Franz shot needs to get better. They both combined take as many threes as Tatum alone, and make less than Tatum does (3.1 vs 2.8) combined.

That being said, it is literally part of their growth, as they are 21 and 23 years old. If they were at their ceilings and we were a top 15 offense as well as being a top 2 defense, a year after being a top 5-6 lottery team, well, that would be unheard of growth and we'd be set to be a contending team for a decade plus. It doesn't mean the system is failing or all of the players suck and we should be panicking like half of this fanbase seems to be doing.

When we talk about Durant or other elite offensive forwards, nobody is worrying about if Tyus Jones is on the team or not or if Brogdon could unlock Giannis or whatever. These guys are elite offensively no matter who is on the team. Additions to their teams are talked about in context with their team getting better, not getting Durant/Giannis/etc better looks. Franz and Paolo will have to improve to gain that sort of gravity so others can play to the best of their abilities too, it's not solely about them.. just like Howard did for all of our shooters in our last great team. It's a symbiotic relationship and most of it lies within elite players being able to impact the game no matter who is on the team.

[pepe1991]

Or you are refusing to acknowledge value of low usage, solid defense, good at rebounding C who gives team without shooters option from perimeter ( 3 FGA/ around 36% accuracy) and 11-15 ppg on 62% TS. Again, on team that on most nights can't really buy a bucket, let alone efficient one.

And other starting scoring options this year, aside from Banchero ( to this date low efficiency) and Franz ( lost jumpshot) :
KCP- career 11 ppg
Suggs- career 11,5 ppg

And Carter, career 12,5 ppg. So it's not like he is Biyombo and alternatives are prime Klay and Ray Allen.

So what you are really saying is that you are OK with an extremely mediocre Center in every other facet because Orlando’s starting lineup is questionable offensively in every other aspect. He’s an average rebounder and team defender.

Sorry, that’s not a good enough argument to pay 4 guys decent money because you are willing to concede health issues for an occasional 3 point shot niche.

I'm not sure what type of C you even want? Lumbering big who doesn't leave paint? Because that will really help our clogged paint and crappy shooting. Brook Lopez but 18 years younger? That player isn't aveliable for us nor any other team. Victor? Who doesn't want him?

I don't get it. Worst part about Carter's game has nothing to do with his game, it's his crappy health. Rest of complaints are pretty much nitpicking and bickering arguments.

Paolo on offense last season struggled downhill/in the paint against smaller guards in space AND down low when teams felt comfortable rotating off Carter because he’s camped outside. You’d think that’s advantageous for Paolo but it isn’t. Turns out, a wall of bodies sealing him off makes finishing more difficult.

What worked at Duke was Mark Williams being able to finish above the rim on drop offs from Paolo when they doubled him. Carter simply can’t do that unless it’s a lob. The point is that a Center that actually creates space with their body down low, regardless of hitting outside shots, would probably help both Franz and Paolo more in half court sets. They now have 2 shooting guard outlets in the starting lineup to space the floor? What is really their excuse now?

If Paolo and Franz aren’t effective unless every other player is hitting outside shots on a 22 ranked offense, then your system isn’t working and you have bigger problems than making sure you have extreme big depth.

I'm okey with "mediocre " starter at position where elite player isn't apsolute need for contending because his salary is "mediocre" as well.


Mark Williams and P.B. worked at college because they are massive and talented, in league where vast majority of players is neither.
Avrage height of college players is 6'4 - 200ish pounds , most teams don't have person over 6'9, let alone pair of them talented to match those two.
On top of that ,despite fact offensive 3 sec violation as rule actually exists in rulebook for NCAA, they flat out never call it, so Williams would spend, sometimes even 10+ seconds just camping near rim waiting for ball, and his gigantic size would prevent defenders to come close.

Watch on YouTube

You can skip to 4:05 and just count how many seconds he is rim camping in two highlights.


Main problem with Towns- Gobert / Randle - Mitch Rob / Cousins-Davis / Davis-Randle / Griffin- Deandre etc is simply how close those players would stand to each other during majority of possessions. Yes, at times it works, lobs , good passes, double teams avoided by trowing ball in air as rim running C would just dunk it. But those situations are often product of lucky escape from broken play, not actual - play.
Case and point, Mitchell Robinson vs Heat last year averaged 5 ppg for a series , including 0 FGM in elimination game over 30 min on the floor. On a team like Magic that would be suicide.