Lonzo Ball expected to see first action Wednesday

[CROBulls]

I am terrified… of losing our pick.

Billy says Lonzo looks really good and is full speed. “Will help us win.”

https://www.nba.com/bulls/news/billy-donovan-on-lonzo-balls-progression-theres-no-question-he-can-contribute

Lonzo was originally really good defensive player. He needed to be. Because his offense sucked ass, specially inside 3pt line and was offering Rajon Rondo experience at discount price. He developed his shot, rebuild atrocious shooting form to become great 3&D player. New Lonzo will likely be unable to play defense. You need knees for that. Lonzo doesnt have any.

There is no wins without defense. There is no wins with Vuc and Lonzo on defense. There is no wins with Vuc, Lavine, Lonzo on defense.

Gonna help us win (picks). Goddamit Billy, dont give fake hopes to this already dissapointed Bulls fanbase and be a man. And tell it how it is.

I wanna see Lonzo play and play a lot because I know he is not gonna win us any games.

[DuckIII]

He might be my favorite player on the team but all I see are likely downsides here. I don’t want him back.

We are not resigning him and no one is going to trade for him. Him playing well, if he can play well, does nothing to benefit our team in the only ways that matter now.

I won’t root for another injury because I’m a fan and I hope he salvages his career. But we all know there is virtually no chance anymore that happens here.

So to me he simply risks the Spurs pick. And to me retaining the Spurs pick is a holy grail of this season.

we're not getting that pick u should stop now for your own sanity .

We very easily can and should and if we don’t, I’ll be fine. I’ve grown accustomed to this FO’s moronically myopic thinking.

[Ccwatercraft]

The good thing about Lonzo is, if he does return healthy and shows he's worthy of regular minutes, there won't necessarily be a logjam at guard because he can play and defend 1-4. I think if anything he'll (along with Matas, Phillips, and to a lesser extent Terry) push Pat for minutes at the 3/4. Whether Pat is actually at risk of losing his role/minutes after just signing a big extension remains to be seen.

I think it will be interesting to see how they treat him. In theory he can just be a 3&D + Connective passer, but they may want to limit the time he spends defending bigger players over health concerns.

Also, given how lateral quickness is so important to defense. He may now just be a good shooter and connective passer and only be a system defender.

I can go either way

A) he comes back, plays well, we're all happy

B) he crashes and burns, we finally medically retire him and have 20 million in cap space and a 17m tpe.

I say play him 42 minutes

[sco]

I am terrified… of losing our pick.

Billy says Lonzo looks really good and is full speed. “Will help us win.”

https://www.nba.com/bulls/news/billy-donovan-on-lonzo-balls-progression-theres-no-question-he-can-contribute

Yeah, if Zo is for real, the tank is definitely in jeopardy. We already have Giddey supercharging the starting lineup, now we're gonna have Zo doing the same to the second unit? Last year we had to rely on DeMar and Coby for all of the PG duties.

Coby / Zach / Giddey / Pat / Vooch
Ball / Ayo / Buzelis or Terry or Craig / Philips / Smith

MIP Coby, Philips looks improved, Ayo replacing whatever bum guard we had coming off the bench, Buzelis looking promising, Zo back, Zach healthy, increased pace and chucking 3s... you can argue it's a better team than last year lmao (certainly more fun).

Like I've always said man, we have too many productive NBA players on this roster if we're really serious about not giving away our pick to San Antonio. But at the same time, outside of Zach and Vooch, they are already playing a lot of young guys so it's not like they're primed to just have a fire sale, start over, and fill the roster with G-Leaguers like some of these other veteran teams.

Well said.

IMO, this team is a healty Lonzo and Zach, plus a rational rotation away from being a .500 team. Now the likelihood of all of those happening is less than 50/50. The other aspect of the "tank to keep the pick" strategy that isn't mentioned enough is that it extends for 3 season, IIRC. That's in addition to AK saying that he isn't tanking.

[Ctownbulls]

I am terrified… of losing our pick.

Billy says Lonzo looks really good and is full speed. “Will help us win.”

https://www.nba.com/bulls/news/billy-donovan-on-lonzo-balls-progression-theres-no-question-he-can-contribute

Yeah, if Zo is for real, the tank is definitely in jeopardy. We already have Giddey supercharging the starting lineup, now we're gonna have Zo doing the same to the second unit? Last year we had to rely on DeMar and Coby for all of the PG duties.

Coby / Zach / Giddey / Pat / Vooch
Ball / Ayo / Buzelis or Terry or Craig / Philips / Smith

MIP Coby, Philips looks improved, Ayo replacing whatever bum guard we had coming off the bench, Buzelis looking promising, Zo back, Zach healthy, increased pace and chucking 3s... you can argue it's a better team than last year lmao (certainly more fun).

Like I've always said man, we have too many productive NBA players on this roster if we're really serious about not giving away our pick to San Antonio. But at the same time, outside of Zach and Vooch, they are already playing a lot of young guys so it's not like they're primed to just have a fire sale, start over, and fill the roster with G-Leaguers like some of these other veteran teams.

Well said.

IMO, this team is a healty Lonzo and Zach, plus a rational rotation away from being a .500 team. Now the likelihood of all of those happening is less than 50/50. The other aspect of the "tank to keep the pick" strategy that isn't mentioned enough is that it extends for 3 season, IIRC. That's in addition to AK saying that he isn't tanking.

.500 seems like a stretch but I took the over on 27.5 wins. Bulls don't tank purposely and there is enough talent to get to 30.

Sent from my Pixel 9 using Tapatalk

[jnrjr79]

The good thing about Lonzo is, if he does return healthy and shows he's worthy of regular minutes, there won't necessarily be a logjam at guard because he can play and defend 1-4. I think if anything he'll (along with Matas, Phillips, and to a lesser extent Terry) push Pat for minutes at the 3/4. Whether Pat is actually at risk of losing his role/minutes after just signing a big extension remains to be seen.

I think it will be interesting to see how they treat him. In theory he can just be a 3&D + Connective passer, but they may want to limit the time he spends defending bigger players over health concerns.

Also, given how lateral quickness is so important to defense. He may now just be a good shooter and connective passer and only be a system defender.

I can go either way

A) he comes back, plays well, we're all happy

B) he crashes and burns, we finally medically retire him and have 20 million in cap space and a 17m tpe.

I say play him 42 minutes

Option B isn't really a good option. If he is literally physically unable to play and the Bulls think they could get a physician to sign off on it, it wouldn't create any salary cap space anyway, because the Bulls are $27 million above the cap. They'd be better off not seeking it and just having his contract around as potential expiring salary to trade.

[sco]

Yeah, if Zo is for real, the tank is definitely in jeopardy. We already have Giddey supercharging the starting lineup, now we're gonna have Zo doing the same to the second unit? Last year we had to rely on DeMar and Coby for all of the PG duties.

Coby / Zach / Giddey / Pat / Vooch
Ball / Ayo / Buzelis or Terry or Craig / Philips / Smith

MIP Coby, Philips looks improved, Ayo replacing whatever bum guard we had coming off the bench, Buzelis looking promising, Zo back, Zach healthy, increased pace and chucking 3s... you can argue it's a better team than last year lmao (certainly more fun).

Like I've always said man, we have too many productive NBA players on this roster if we're really serious about not giving away our pick to San Antonio. But at the same time, outside of Zach and Vooch, they are already playing a lot of young guys so it's not like they're primed to just have a fire sale, start over, and fill the roster with G-Leaguers like some of these other veteran teams.

Well said.

IMO, this team is a healty Lonzo and Zach, plus a rational rotation away from being a .500 team. Now the likelihood of all of those happening is less than 50/50. The other aspect of the "tank to keep the pick" strategy that isn't mentioned enough is that it extends for 3 season, IIRC. That's in addition to AK saying that he isn't tanking.

.500 seems like a stretch but I took the over on 27.5 wins. Bulls don't tank purposely and there is enough talent to get to 30.

Sent from my Pixel 9 using Tapatalk

I get your point, but the reality is that our win total is, at this point, driven by a bunch of potential scenarios and I could imagine a scenario when Ball becomes a productive 24 MPG player, and Zach is "good Zach" for the season, AND Billy figures out that starting Ayo and Smith over Coby and Vuc, that we could be an average team. But also, that the things all happening together is less than 50/50.

[dougthonus]

Option B isn't really a good option. If he is literally physically unable to play and the Bulls think they could get a physician to sign off on it, it wouldn't create any salary cap space anyway, because the Bulls are $27 million above the cap. They'd be better off not seeking it and just having his contract around as potential expiring salary to trade.

They have a 17M TPE from the DeMar trade they presently can't use until FA starts next year. If they could get Lonzo's number off the books then they could use that at the deadline this year. That might create a better use case than next summer if they project to be near the cap tax again next summer (a strong possibility if Zach and Vuc are still here and they want to extend Giddey).

Effectively, in this scenario, you'd ditch Lonzo's salary then be able to take in 17M at teh deadline in expiring deals + picks and facilitate some transactions.

That said, the ability to play facilitator is a lot less valuable than it used to be now that the MLE can be used to take in traded players.

There may be some marginal value in this move, but it's probably not a lot, also not sure on the time it takes to get this through the system or if there are deadlines as to when you can apply, so odds are from a practical sense there are other barriers that would stop you from doing it anyway.

[jnrjr79]

Option B isn't really a good option. If he is literally physically unable to play and the Bulls think they could get a physician to sign off on it, it wouldn't create any salary cap space anyway, because the Bulls are $27 million above the cap. They'd be better off not seeking it and just having his contract around as potential expiring salary to trade.

They have a 17M TPE from the DeMar trade they presently can't use until FA starts next year. If they could get Lonzo's number off the books then they could use that at the deadline this year. That might create a better use case than next summer if they project to be near the cap tax again next summer (a strong possibility if Zach and Vuc are still here and they want to extend Giddey).

Effectively, in this scenario, you'd ditch Lonzo's salary then be able to take in 17M at teh deadline in expiring deals + picks and facilitate some transactions.

That said, the ability to play facilitator is a lot less valuable than it used to be now that the MLE can be used to take in traded players.

There may be some marginal value in this move, but it's probably not a lot, also not sure on the time it takes to get this through the system or if there are deadlines as to when you can apply, so odds are from a practical sense there are other barriers that would stop you from doing it anyway.

This is a good point. I was just trying to note that the idea that doing medical retirement would create "cap space" isn't accurate. I guess the question is what you think is more likely to be useful in a future deal - the expiring Lonzo contract or the DeMar TPE. And then you have to question whether it's worth it to go through the hassle and potential ill-will of pursuing the medical retirement in the event you think the immediate TPE availability is more useful.

As it stands now, Lonzo is cleared for full activity and playing basketball tonight, so it only really comes up if he sustains further injury or more or less cannot play in his current condition after trying.

Lonzo is already noting that they'll have to "manage" his knee condition all year, so it'll be interesting to see where it goes. He said something recently to the effect of his body no longer being what it was but that he can still contribute. It appears even he is not setting any expectation that he'll be his old self and he seems to be prepared for a more limited role moving forward.

[dougthonus]

Option B isn't really a good option. If he is literally physically unable to play and the Bulls think they could get a physician to sign off on it, it wouldn't create any salary cap space anyway, because the Bulls are $27 million above the cap. They'd be better off not seeking it and just having his contract around as potential expiring salary to trade.

They have a 17M TPE from the DeMar trade they presently can't use until FA starts next year. If they could get Lonzo's number off the books then they could use that at the deadline this year. That might create a better use case than next summer if they project to be near the cap tax again next summer (a strong possibility if Zach and Vuc are still here and they want to extend Giddey).

Effectively, in this scenario, you'd ditch Lonzo's salary then be able to take in 17M at teh deadline in expiring deals + picks and facilitate some transactions.

That said, the ability to play facilitator is a lot less valuable than it used to be now that the MLE can be used to take in traded players.

There may be some marginal value in this move, but it's probably not a lot, also not sure on the time it takes to get this through the system or if there are deadlines as to when you can apply, so odds are from a practical sense there are other barriers that would stop you from doing it anyway.

This is a good point. I was just trying to note that the idea that doing medical retirement would create "cap space" isn't accurate. I guess the question is what you think is more likely to be useful in a future deal - the expiring Lonzo contract or the DeMar TPE. And then you have to question whether it's worth it to go through the hassle and potential ill-will of pursuing the medical retirement in the event you think the immediate TPE availability is more useful.

As it stands now, Lonzo is cleared for full activity and playing basketball tonight, so it only really comes up if he sustains further injury or more or less cannot play in his current condition after trying.

Lonzo is already noting that they'll have to "manage" his knee condition all year, so it'll be interesting to see where it goes. He said something recently to the effect of his body no longer being what it was but that he can still contribute. It appears even he is not setting any expectation that he'll be his old self and he seems to be prepared for a more limited role moving forward.

From a practical sense, I think the Lonzo retirement ship has probably sailed.

[jnrjr79]

They have a 17M TPE from the DeMar trade they presently can't use until FA starts next year. If they could get Lonzo's number off the books then they could use that at the deadline this year. That might create a better use case than next summer if they project to be near the cap tax again next summer (a strong possibility if Zach and Vuc are still here and they want to extend Giddey).

Effectively, in this scenario, you'd ditch Lonzo's salary then be able to take in 17M at teh deadline in expiring deals + picks and facilitate some transactions.

That said, the ability to play facilitator is a lot less valuable than it used to be now that the MLE can be used to take in traded players.

There may be some marginal value in this move, but it's probably not a lot, also not sure on the time it takes to get this through the system or if there are deadlines as to when you can apply, so odds are from a practical sense there are other barriers that would stop you from doing it anyway.

This is a good point. I was just trying to note that the idea that doing medical retirement would create "cap space" isn't accurate. I guess the question is what you think is more likely to be useful in a future deal - the expiring Lonzo contract or the DeMar TPE. And then you have to question whether it's worth it to go through the hassle and potential ill-will of pursuing the medical retirement in the event you think the immediate TPE availability is more useful.

As it stands now, Lonzo is cleared for full activity and playing basketball tonight, so it only really comes up if he sustains further injury or more or less cannot play in his current condition after trying.

Lonzo is already noting that they'll have to "manage" his knee condition all year, so it'll be interesting to see where it goes. He said something recently to the effect of his body no longer being what it was but that he can still contribute. It appears even he is not setting any expectation that he'll be his old self and he seems to be prepared for a more limited role moving forward.

From a practical sense, I think the Lonzo retirement ship has probably sailed.

Right. The inquiry here is not "is this guy super diminished due to his injury history," it's whether he can play at all. At present, it appears he can. Maybe I'll be able to see with my own eyes tonight of Best Buy delivers my antenna in time, lol.

[dougthonus]

Right. The inquiry here is not "is this guy super diminished due to his injury history," it's whether he can play at all. At present, it appears he can. Maybe I'll be able to see with my own eyes tonight of Best Buy delivers my antenna in time, lol.

Yeah, I mean it could be that Lonzo plays in a preseason game but is bad enough that they could pursue it under lack of skill, but I think from a practical perspective that we aren't going to do this, and it's dicey whether it would work if we tried.

[jnrjr79]

Right. The inquiry here is not "is this guy super diminished due to his injury history," it's whether he can play at all. At present, it appears he can. Maybe I'll be able to see with my own eyes tonight of Best Buy delivers my antenna in time, lol.

Yeah, I mean it could be that Lonzo plays in a preseason game but is bad enough that they could pursue it under lack of skill, but I think from a practical perspective that we aren't going to do this, and it's dicey whether it would work if we tried.

Yeah, I would assume the potential damage to the Kluch relationship on its own may be enough to ride this thing out and hope to trade his expiring rather than move up the date you can use the TPE. I am also cynical and whenever I see the Bulls get a TPE, I never expect them to actually use it.

[kulaz3000]

Watch on YouTube

[sco]

I gotta admit, I'm kinda excited to see him play tonight.

[WindyCityBorn]

He might be my favorite player on the team but all I see are likely downsides here. I don’t want him back.

We are not resigning him and no one is going to trade for him. Him playing well, if he can play well, does nothing to benefit our team in the only ways that matter now.

I won’t root for another injury because I’m a fan and I hope he salvages his career. But we all know there is virtually no chance anymore that happens here.

So to me he simply risks the Spurs pick. And to me retaining the Spurs pick is a holy grail of this season.

Not so sure we don’t resign him. Depends on what the market is like.

[Ccwatercraft]

I think it will be interesting to see how they treat him. In theory he can just be a 3&D + Connective passer, but they may want to limit the time he spends defending bigger players over health concerns.

Also, given how lateral quickness is so important to defense. He may now just be a good shooter and connective passer and only be a system defender.

I can go either way

A) he comes back, plays well, we're all happy

B) he crashes and burns, we finally medically retire him and have 20 million in cap space and a 17m tpe.

I say play him 42 minutes

Option B isn't really a good option. If he is literally physically unable to play and the Bulls think they could get a physician to sign off on it, it wouldn't create any salary cap space anyway, because the Bulls are $27 million above the cap. They'd be better off not seeking it and just having his contract around as potential expiring salary to trade.

That's what the TPE is for, instant cap space, also if we move vuc or zach, carter we can take back extra salary up to the hard cap...

Am I missing some loophole or condition? The cba always has weird rules

[Ccwatercraft]

He might be my favorite player on the team but all I see are likely downsides here. I don’t want him back.

We are not resigning him and no one is going to trade for him. Him playing well, if he can play well, does nothing to benefit our team in the only ways that matter now.

I won’t root for another injury because I’m a fan and I hope he salvages his career. But we all know there is virtually no chance anymore that happens here.

So to me he simply risks the Spurs pick. And to me retaining the Spurs pick is a holy grail of this season.

Not so sure we don’t resign him. Depends on what the market is like.

I heard on a pod the other day that 2026 could be even better than 25... so the ark of the covenant vs the holy grail

[kulaz3000]

Watch on YouTube

[Ccwatercraft]

Watch on YouTube

Loved seeing the cheers!