ImageImageImage

Preseason thread

Moderators: Domejandro, Calinks, Worm Guts

Klomp
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 67,882
And1: 21,611
Joined: Jul 08, 2005
Contact:
   

Re: Preseason thread 

Post#261 » by Klomp » Fri Oct 18, 2024 5:15 pm

Norseman79 wrote:C - Rudy, ???, Garza (I will die on this hill, we need another big. I like Garza, I do. But if you watched the game last night with the nuggets, he is not big. If Rudy goes down right now we have nothing that shuts down the paint and can bang against bigger centers. We need to find one.)

Read on Twitter


I think the thing that's easy to forget is that most of the NBA center position is not as big as it once was. 240-250 pounds has become the sweet spot for probably 80% of the position. Sure there are outliers, but saving one roster spot for maybe 20% of your games seems kinda foolish.

And while he may struggle on the interior, how many bigs can truly hang with him on the perimeter? He is a crazy good offensive player, I don't think people give him his due enough because he's a big white guy who played at Iowa. But he has a bag. Honestly, he's a lot like Kevin Love, in many respects.

Read on Twitter
tsherkin wrote:The important thing to take away here is that Klomp is wrong.
Esohny wrote:Why are you asking Klomp? "He's" actually a bot that posts random blurbs from a database.
Klomp wrote:I'm putting the tired in retired mod at the moment
minimus
RealGM
Posts: 13,244
And1: 4,829
Joined: Jan 28, 2011
Location: Germany, Stuttgart area
 

Re: Preseason thread 

Post#262 » by minimus » Fri Oct 18, 2024 5:57 pm

Klomp wrote:
Norseman79 wrote:C - Rudy, ???, Garza (I will die on this hill, we need another big. I like Garza, I do. But if you watched the game last night with the nuggets, he is not big. If Rudy goes down right now we have nothing that shuts down the paint and can bang against bigger centers. We need to find one.)

Read on Twitter


I think the thing that's easy to forget is that most of the NBA center position is not as big as it once was. 240-250 pounds has become the sweet spot for probably 80% of the position. Sure there are outliers, but saving one roster spot for maybe 20% of your games seems kinda foolish.

And while he may struggle on the interior, how many bigs can truly hang with him on the perimeter? He is a crazy good offensive player, I don't think people give him his due enough because he's a big white guy who played at Iowa. But he has a bag. Honestly, he's a lot like Kevin Love, in many respects.

Read on Twitter


The problem is not defending bigs. The problem that wings has become much more athletic than ever. You leave Garza against Tatum or Brown sized wings and they will eat him alive.
Norseman79
Starter
Posts: 2,148
And1: 748
Joined: Jul 26, 2017
     

Re: Preseason thread 

Post#263 » by Norseman79 » Fri Oct 18, 2024 6:24 pm

Garza at power Forward or small ball five works for me. Garza as a backup in a good matchup for him, works for me. The thought that Garza could be the starting center if anything happens to Rudy does not work for me. If Rudy gets in foul trouble Garza does not work for me. We were who we were because of our defense. I don't care if they find somebody who is 610 250 lb with a 7-ft 2-in wingspan if they are super athletic and rebound and defend. I don't need somebody that's 7 ft tall 300 lb. I just need some combination of size athleticism that can shut the paint down and own the glass. And yes, someone with a little bit more weight to handle some of the big banging types would go a long ways also to take some wear and tear off of Rudy.
BlacJacMac
Analyst
Posts: 3,188
And1: 2,891
Joined: Aug 25, 2020
       

Re: Preseason thread 

Post#264 » by BlacJacMac » Fri Oct 18, 2024 6:29 pm

Norseman79 wrote:Garza at power Forward or small ball five works for me. Garza as a backup in a good matchup for him, works for me. The thought that Garza could be the starting center if anything happens to Rudy does not work for me. If Rudy gets in foul trouble Garza does not work for me. We were who we were because of our defense. I don't care if they find somebody who is 610 250 lb with a 7-ft 2-in wingspan if they are super athletic and rebound and defend. I don't need somebody that's 7 ft tall 300 lb. I just need some combination of size athleticism that can shut the paint down and own the glass. And yes, someone with a little bit more weight to handle some of the big banging types would go a long ways also to take some wear and tear off of Rudy.


For sure.

Right now, Randle might be our best option to defend guys like Jokic and Embiid when Rudy is sitting.
Klomp
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 67,882
And1: 21,611
Joined: Jul 08, 2005
Contact:
   

Re: Preseason thread 

Post#265 » by Klomp » Fri Oct 18, 2024 6:49 pm

Norseman79 wrote:The thought that Garza could be the starting center if anything happens to Rudy does not work for me. If Rudy gets in foul trouble Garza does not work for me.

They will intentionally go small if that happens.
tsherkin wrote:The important thing to take away here is that Klomp is wrong.
Esohny wrote:Why are you asking Klomp? "He's" actually a bot that posts random blurbs from a database.
Klomp wrote:I'm putting the tired in retired mod at the moment
wolves_89
General Manager
Posts: 8,037
And1: 4,510
Joined: Jul 10, 2012
 

Re: Preseason thread 

Post#266 » by wolves_89 » Fri Oct 18, 2024 8:29 pm

Klomp wrote:
wolves_89 wrote:Miller has all the tools in the world, he just needs to slow down and play smarter.

I will say though, watching Minott "get it" this preseason gives me much more hope for Miller going forward. Josh was in a very similar situation a year ago, heck 3 months ago.


I am really hoping that Minott gets rotation minutes, and I think a side benefit of that would be to give Miller an example of how putting in the work gets rewarded.
KGdaBom
RealGM
Posts: 21,632
And1: 5,722
Joined: Jun 22, 2017
         

Re: Preseason thread 

Post#267 » by KGdaBom » Fri Oct 18, 2024 9:06 pm

BlacJacMac wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:I'm just about to watch last nights game using my league pass. I love LeaguePass so much. Just looking at the box score Luka is such an offensive beast and Joker on 4 points in 28 minutes. Freaking Strawther with 33 against us???? Dilly, Clark, Nix and Miller all with good lines.


He did not want to play in the game. It was the most passive-aggressive performance I've ever seen.

Thanks for the info. I fell asleep watching so I need to try again.
younggunsmn
Head Coach
Posts: 6,462
And1: 2,355
Joined: May 28, 2007
Location: Hiding from the thought police.

Re: Preseason thread 

Post#268 » by younggunsmn » Fri Oct 18, 2024 10:41 pm

That was an incredibly enjoyable game for me to watch. :D :D :D
Not only got to see a full game with all of our prospects, but against good competition and not a bunch of scrubs (even if nobody from Denver really wanted to be there).
All of our guys gave a really good effort so it was fun to see.
Kind of a really good opportunity to take a snapshot of where everyone is at.

Luka Garza (Mr Walking Bucket) I think is ready to be a low minute rotation player. He's strong enough to stand up big physical centers and was making the right decisions in his defensive rotations.
I watched mutliple possessions where he checked players who were coming off screens that would have been layups were it not for his awareness. He just doesn't have enough length to alter much of anything around the rim.
He's going to have to be a defender much in the mold of Kevin Love (who was an awful defender for all his time here but became serviceable after he left) and use his body and smarts to his advantage.
He kinda needed to pick a lane after last year, do I slim down and try to be quick enough to defend the 4 or bulk up and become a 5?
I think he picked the right lane.

Josh Minott is the other guy I thought was ready for rotation minutes right now.
Gaining your "man-strength" in your arms and legs can have a tremendously positive effect in your shooting consistency, and I think that's a lot of what has happened with Minott (Jaylen Clark is the other guy who has noticeably added upper body strength since last year). Even the layups and floaters look a lot better.
Beyond that, he's more confident in his decision making and defensive rotations, and made some shot blocks and alterations I was not expecting him to be capable of.
I like him at the 4 a lot more than at the 3, but I think he's going to have to prove he can defensive rebound effectively from that position in order to take the next step.
Minott was the one guy that gave Denver any problems at all defensively.

TJ Shannon is close. He made a lot of nice passes that resulted in buckets and took on a tough defensive matchup.
His slashing game was pretty good as advertised. The shot was not though. It was pretty ugly, both in form and result.
He's going to have to become a consistent 3 point threat to crack the rotation, because good defenses are just going to use his defender as a free safety until he does.

Rob Dillingham showed flashes, he's clearly the most talented of all our young guys, I don't think he's ready yet to be a net positive on either end of the floor though, and that's okay, he's still just 19
He's giving good effort and Finch is doing a good job not trying to throttle him too much.
The challenge is going to be continuing to get him experience and keep his confidence up while we are trying to win every single game. I think we'll see some spot g-league time when the schedule dictates, but Finch is also gonna want Mike in his ear all year long.

Leonard Miller is not quite there yet. Has more growing to do both physically and learning the game.
Was more active defensively and around the rim. The talent is definitely there to be a rotation player some day.
How he handles this year and the frustration of not playing is going to be super important.
Does he go down and tear up the G-League and go 30-15 every night like Luka Garza with super high effort, or does he get benched for halfassing it on defense like last year?

Daishen Nix is miscast as a PG or primary ballhandler. Just don't think he is ever consistently good on either end of the floor.

Jaylen Clark has an NBA body and motor. He needs to prove he has enough ball skills and 3 point shooting consistency.
He kinda reminds me of when I play NBA videogames when I'm trying to steal the ball every single possession.
You gotta do that within the team concept though.

Jesse Edwards didn't look amazing but he looked a lot better than he did in summer league.
More aggressive and a little better balanced.
Had a couple of really nice wallups and a couple of really bad ones.
Not convinced he's any kind of Gob-heir apparent but give him a year in our program with NBA coaching and strength training and see what he can do.

KBD is fine as the 14th or 15th guy on your roster and emergency forward depth.

Dozier - absolutely not a ballhandler let alone PG. Not any better than Jaylen Clark I never understood the signing.
younggunsmn
Head Coach
Posts: 6,462
And1: 2,355
Joined: May 28, 2007
Location: Hiding from the thought police.

Re: Preseason thread 

Post#269 » by younggunsmn » Fri Oct 18, 2024 10:44 pm

Oh, and our defense, perimeter defense in particular, was pretty atrocious all through the preseason.
Going to have to lock that down or we are going to have a bad time, although it may take a few games like it did last year.

The other thing that I noticed was that the spacing and ball movement was a lot better than last year.
Maybe that's a good sign.
Norseman79
Starter
Posts: 2,148
And1: 748
Joined: Jul 26, 2017
     

Re: Preseason thread 

Post#270 » by Norseman79 » Fri Oct 18, 2024 11:41 pm

Klomp wrote:
Norseman79 wrote:The thought that Garza could be the starting center if anything happens to Rudy does not work for me. If Rudy gets in foul trouble Garza does not work for me.

They will intentionally go small if that happens.


And we will get destroyed by good teams
BlacJacMac
Analyst
Posts: 3,188
And1: 2,891
Joined: Aug 25, 2020
       

Re: Preseason thread 

Post#271 » by BlacJacMac » Fri Oct 18, 2024 11:49 pm

This might breakdown almost every play Randle was involved in vs the Bulls:

Read on Twitter
Norseman79
Starter
Posts: 2,148
And1: 748
Joined: Jul 26, 2017
     

Re: Preseason thread 

Post#272 » by Norseman79 » Fri Oct 18, 2024 11:53 pm

wolves_89 wrote:
Klomp wrote:
wolves_89 wrote:Miller has all the tools in the world, he just needs to slow down and play smarter.

I will say though, watching Minott "get it" this preseason gives me much more hope for Miller going forward. Josh was in a very similar situation a year ago, heck 3 months ago.


I am really hoping that Minott gets rotation minutes, and I think a side benefit of that would be to give Miller an example of how putting in the work gets rewarded.


I don't know how he does not get minutes? He's looked arguably like a fringe starter. Now I know there's no way he starts over McDaniels, but it's not even close between how he looked and how Ingles looked
Klomp
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 67,882
And1: 21,611
Joined: Jul 08, 2005
Contact:
   

Re: Preseason thread 

Post#273 » by Klomp » Sat Oct 19, 2024 12:41 am

Norseman79 wrote:
Klomp wrote:
Norseman79 wrote:The thought that Garza could be the starting center if anything happens to Rudy does not work for me. If Rudy gets in foul trouble Garza does not work for me.

They will intentionally go small if that happens.


And we will get destroyed by good teams

EVERY team that loses one of it best players will be worse if he gets hurt, I don't know why this is so difficult to grasp around here.
tsherkin wrote:The important thing to take away here is that Klomp is wrong.
Esohny wrote:Why are you asking Klomp? "He's" actually a bot that posts random blurbs from a database.
Klomp wrote:I'm putting the tired in retired mod at the moment
winforlose
RealGM
Posts: 12,637
And1: 5,472
Joined: Feb 27, 2020

Re: Preseason thread 

Post#274 » by winforlose » Sat Oct 19, 2024 12:46 am

Klomp wrote:
Norseman79 wrote:
Klomp wrote:They will intentionally go small if that happens.


And we will get destroyed by good teams

EVERY team that loses one of it best players will be worse if he gets hurt, I don't know why this is so difficult to grasp around here.


We made the playoffs in 2022/23 with KAT out most of the season. We made the playoffs in 23/24 one game out of first place with KAT out more than a month. KAT was our 2nd or 3rd best player. If Ant goes down for a long stretch we might be screwed. Just like if Brunson, Tatum, Embiid, Joker, or SGA go down their team might be screwed. But teams can win while missing key players. Boston missed KP and still won a title. The key is real depth. We have it at 4 positions, but not at C.
Klomp
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 67,882
And1: 21,611
Joined: Jul 08, 2005
Contact:
   

Re: Preseason thread 

Post#275 » by Klomp » Sat Oct 19, 2024 12:55 am

winforlose wrote:
Klomp wrote:
Norseman79 wrote:
And we will get destroyed by good teams

EVERY team that loses one of it best players will be worse if he gets hurt, I don't know why this is so difficult to grasp around here.


We made the playoffs in 2022/23 with KAT out most of the season. We made the playoffs in 23/24 one game out of first place with KAT out more than a month. KAT was our 2nd or 3rd best player. If Ant goes down for a long stretch we might be screwed. Just like if Brunson, Tatum, Embiid, Joker, or SGA go down their team might be screwed. But teams can win while missing key players. Boston missed KP and still won a title. The key is real depth. We have it at 4 positions, but not at C.

I never said that it is impossible to win if someone gets hurt. I said it's harder. It is.
tsherkin wrote:The important thing to take away here is that Klomp is wrong.
Esohny wrote:Why are you asking Klomp? "He's" actually a bot that posts random blurbs from a database.
Klomp wrote:I'm putting the tired in retired mod at the moment
Norseman79
Starter
Posts: 2,148
And1: 748
Joined: Jul 26, 2017
     

Re: Preseason thread 

Post#276 » by Norseman79 » Sat Oct 19, 2024 12:59 am

Klomp wrote:
Norseman79 wrote:
Klomp wrote:They will intentionally go small if that happens.


And we will get destroyed by good teams

EVERY team that loses one of it best players will be worse if he gets hurt, I don't know why this is so difficult to grasp around here.


It's not about losing the best player, it's about not having someone behind him that could replicate, all be it at a far lower level, what that player brings.
shrink
RealGM
Posts: 59,023
And1: 18,991
Joined: Sep 26, 2005

Re: Preseason thread 

Post#277 » by shrink » Sat Oct 19, 2024 3:05 pm

winforlose wrote:
Klomp wrote:
Norseman79 wrote:
And we will get destroyed by good teams

EVERY team that loses one of it best players will be worse if he gets hurt, I don't know why this is so difficult to grasp around here.

We made the playoffs in 2022/23 with KAT out most of the season. We made the playoffs in 23/24 one game out of first place with KAT out more than a month. KAT was our 2nd or 3rd best player. If Ant goes down for a long stretch we might be screwed. Just like if Brunson, Tatum, Embiid, Joker, or SGA go down their team might be screwed. But teams can win while missing key players. Boston missed KP and still won a title. The key is real depth. We have it at 4 positions, but not at C.

Am I crazy to think we’d be in worse shape if Gobert goes down, more than even Ant?
winforlose
RealGM
Posts: 12,637
And1: 5,472
Joined: Feb 27, 2020

Re: Preseason thread 

Post#278 » by winforlose » Sat Oct 19, 2024 3:07 pm

shrink wrote:
winforlose wrote:
Klomp wrote:EVERY team that loses one of it best players will be worse if he gets hurt, I don't know why this is so difficult to grasp around here.

We made the playoffs in 2022/23 with KAT out most of the season. We made the playoffs in 23/24 one game out of first place with KAT out more than a month. KAT was our 2nd or 3rd best player. If Ant goes down for a long stretch we might be screwed. Just like if Brunson, Tatum, Embiid, Joker, or SGA go down their team might be screwed. But teams can win while missing key players. Boston missed KP and still won a title. The key is real depth. We have it at 4 positions, but not at C.

Am I crazy to think we’d be in worse shape if Gobert goes down, more than even Ant?


Gobert going down puts us in small ball. Not good but not fatal. Ant going down puts us in Julius Randle and DDV are leading your offense. How well can they do it? Without Ant’s gravity I don’t know.
Norseman79
Starter
Posts: 2,148
And1: 748
Joined: Jul 26, 2017
     

Re: Preseason thread 

Post#279 » by Norseman79 » Sat Oct 19, 2024 3:23 pm

shrink wrote:
winforlose wrote:
Klomp wrote:EVERY team that loses one of it best players will be worse if he gets hurt, I don't know why this is so difficult to grasp around here.

We made the playoffs in 2022/23 with KAT out most of the season. We made the playoffs in 23/24 one game out of first place with KAT out more than a month. KAT was our 2nd or 3rd best player. If Ant goes down for a long stretch we might be screwed. Just like if Brunson, Tatum, Embiid, Joker, or SGA go down their team might be screwed. But teams can win while missing key players. Boston missed KP and still won a title. The key is real depth. We have it at 4 positions, but not at C.

Am I crazy to think we’d be in worse shape if Gobert goes down, more than even Ant?


I don't know if the drop from Ant to DD would be as devastating as going from Rudy to small ball. DD can score, and competes on D. Who shuts down the paint and rebounds like Rudy does on our team? Another reason why I'm hoping they're looking for a third big.
winforlose
RealGM
Posts: 12,637
And1: 5,472
Joined: Feb 27, 2020

Re: Preseason thread 

Post#280 » by winforlose » Sat Oct 19, 2024 3:46 pm

Norseman79 wrote:
shrink wrote:
winforlose wrote:We made the playoffs in 2022/23 with KAT out most of the season. We made the playoffs in 23/24 one game out of first place with KAT out more than a month. KAT was our 2nd or 3rd best player. If Ant goes down for a long stretch we might be screwed. Just like if Brunson, Tatum, Embiid, Joker, or SGA go down their team might be screwed. But teams can win while missing key players. Boston missed KP and still won a title. The key is real depth. We have it at 4 positions, but not at C.

Am I crazy to think we’d be in worse shape if Gobert goes down, more than even Ant?


I don't know if the drop from Ant to DD would be as devastating as going from Rudy to small ball. DD can score, and competes on D. Who shuts down the paint and rebounds like Rudy does on our team? Another reason why I'm hoping they're looking for a third big.


DDV is much easier to contain than Ant, and without Ant’s downhill play I think we will struggle to get anyone to the rim consistently. But I do agree small ball is less than ideal and a real problem if forced to play it long term.

Return to Minnesota Timberwolves