The German elephant in the room.

[thelead]

Giving him a max was one hell of a gamble that I wouldn’t have taken considering the shooting performance he delivered all of last year (and got even worse in the Olympics). No one knows how it will turn out but we’ll soon find out. It will be a disaster if that shot doesn’t start falling.

Let’s hope it doesn’t evolve into whatever is going on with Mikal Bridges right now.

Every piece of evidence we have says he is worth the max. Him regressing to a non-max-worthy player would be a colossal fall off. I don't think we're appreciating how good he is given how young he is.

You’re crazy. I get that second contract lotto players that are good nearly always get their max contracts but it doesn’t mean that they’re worth it when they sign it.

Franz is good. Franz is 5/175 good. That is not hating. That is telling the truth. He has not even sniffed an all-star appearance or an all-nba spot. Giving him a max is a pure gamble.

[SOUL]

Giving him a max was one hell of a gamble that I wouldn’t have taken considering the shooting performance he delivered all of last year (and got even worse in the Olympics). No one knows how it will turn out but we’ll soon find out. It will be a disaster if that shot doesn’t start falling.

Let’s hope it doesn’t evolve into whatever is going on with Mikal Bridges right now.

Feel like there is a massive amount of overreaction going around lol. I mean, his play alone even without a three has been on par with pretty much every other guy with an extension (Mobley, Cade, Barnes).

Not sure how that would be a disaster but paying him like $5-8 million less would be a relative steal or something. Obviously we want his shot to come back but this isn't Beal sort of situation, especially with a 23 year old that does a lot of other things.

[eyriq]

Giving him a max was one hell of a gamble that I wouldn’t have taken considering the shooting performance he delivered all of last year (and got even worse in the Olympics). No one knows how it will turn out but we’ll soon find out. It will be a disaster if that shot doesn’t start falling.

Let’s hope it doesn’t evolve into whatever is going on with Mikal Bridges right now.

Every piece of evidence we have says he is worth the max. Him regressing to a non-max-worthy player would be a colossal fall off. I don't think we're appreciating how good he is given how young he is.

You’re crazy. I get that second contract lotto players that are good nearly always get their max contracts but it doesn’t mean that they’re worth it when they sign it.

Franz is good. Franz is 5/175 good. That is not hating. That is telling the truth. He has not even sniffed an all-star appearance or an all-nba spot. Giving him a max is a pure gamble.

If I'm crazy then so is Weltman for insta-maxing him. I'm good with that company. There is minimal risk in maxing Franz, he is fundamentally a winning player. This is one of the best young cores of all time.

[SOUL]

Like, I think he can disappoint in terms of not being a max guy but in no way is it some crippling thing that will be an unmovable contract if they wanted to trade him. But I still think that discussion is very, very far away.

[thelead]

This is why max contracts are given out like candy. Mobley is another guy that isn’t worth a max either.

Like it’s absolutely hating on the guy for saying he should be making $35 mil per instead of $45 mil per.

[Skybox]

I’m not worried about Franz per se based on preseason games…

HOWEVER, landing a max contract sets a level of expectations that will one with that. Franz needs to show more consistency proving that he’s a 3-level scorer and a true primary/lite secondary option.

This was a problem last season for him as well and he didn’t have the same expectations he will this season. The heat just got turned up on Franz and I don’t think it’s realistic to expect him all the sudden to hit those shots he’s missing at near a consistent enough clip.

The main question people should be asking is:

IF Paolo is out injured can Franz shoulder the offense in WINS without him? To me, that’s the mark of a max level player if we are talking about a guy that is pretty good defensively and in that category of players worth that kind of money.

This is coming from someone that doesn’t believe Jaylen Brown is worth a max contract.

We will have to see very obvious progress this season compared to last year IMO.

Agree with your last line ...ironically, I vividly remember Jaylen Brown absolutely bullying Franz on both ends in one particular game. Brown's apparently in "prove 'em wrong" mode coming into this season too (and he's already been a stud - not without flaws, but a star) after his Olympic snub. All three guys on Windhorst's pod were commenting on how sharp Brown looks in camp...chiseled physically and quicker shooting that he worked on in offseason.

[byeganyo]

Giving him a max was one hell of a gamble that I wouldn’t have taken considering the shooting performance he delivered all of last year (and got even worse in the Olympics). No one knows how it will turn out but we’ll soon find out. It will be a disaster if that shot doesn’t start falling.

Let’s hope it doesn’t evolve into whatever is going on with Mikal Bridges right now.

Every piece of evidence we have says he is worth the max. Him regressing to a non-max-worthy player would be a colossal fall off. I don't think we're appreciating how good he is given how young he is.

HE IS 23 going 24.
This is not young young in NBA, he should be entering his prime soon.

[eyriq]

Among small forwards (as defined by B-R), Franz was:
6th in points
15th in rebounds
7th in assists
11th in steals
40th in blocks
6th in PER
3rd in win shares
10th in WS/48
13th in OBPM
27th in DBPM
3rd in VORP

Among all players 22 and younger Franz was:
9th in points
23rd in rebounds
15th in assists
13th in steals
46th in blocks
17th in PER
5th in Win Shares
12th in WS/48
14th in OBPM
32nd in DBPM
8th in VORP

Using an overall ranking he comes in 10th among all 22 and younger players. Edwards, Wemby, Sengun, Paolo, Barnes, Chet, Jalen, LaMelo, Cade, and Franz.

Among all small forwards this ranks him 5th. Kawhi, DeRozan, Brown, Ingram, Franz.

In no world is a player as good as Franz not getting a max. Stop tripping.

[BadMofoPimp]

It is not like Franz isn't going to get better. Sometimes, people tend to be short sited.

[SOUL]

Giving him a max was one hell of a gamble that I wouldn’t have taken considering the shooting performance he delivered all of last year (and got even worse in the Olympics). No one knows how it will turn out but we’ll soon find out. It will be a disaster if that shot doesn’t start falling.

Let’s hope it doesn’t evolve into whatever is going on with Mikal Bridges right now.

Every piece of evidence we have says he is worth the max. Him regressing to a non-max-worthy player would be a colossal fall off. I don't think we're appreciating how good he is given how young he is.

HE IS 23 going 24.
This is not young young in NBA, he should be entering his prime soon.

That is extremely young. I mean, obviously not 19 or anything. But he just turned 23.

Most NBA primes are from 26-31. The only facet people are worried about is his three.

[eyriq]

For comparison, here is how Suggs stacks up:

Among shooting guards (as defined by B-R), Suggs was:
29th in points
35th in rebounds
36th in assists
4th in steals
8th in blocks
29th in PER
12th in win shares
18th in WS/48
38th in OBPM
5th in DBPM
14th in VORP
22nd overall

Among all players 22 and younger Suggs was:
26th in points
60th in rebounds
24th in assists
3rd in steals
28th in blocks
32nd in PER
11th in Win Shares
21st in WS/48
33rd in OBPM
9th in DBPM
11th in VORP
19th overall

Using an overall ranking he comes in 19th among all 22 and younger players. Edwards, Wemby, Sengun, Paolo, Barnes, Chet, Jalen, LaMelo, Cade, Franz, Mobley, Green, Giddey, Cam Thomas, Johnson, Duren, Kuminga, Jabari, Suggs.

Among all shooting guards this ranks him 22nd. Mitchell, Edwards, Irving, Murray, Barnes, White, Bane, Sexton, DiVincenzo, Simons, Reaves, Green, Giddey, Beal, Herro, Cam Thomas, Barrett, Grayson, Bogdanovic, Monk, Suggs.

Hence, Franz is a automatic MAX and Suggs is a "lets play this out".

[Rainwater]

3 preseason games and we worried about Franz? and his fit with the guy he won 47 games with last year?

come on man, do better.

If we were being honest, many were worried about Franz last year. I feel like he struggled last season (mostly with his shot) despite what the stats say. And despite the struggle, nobody is debating if he can help the team win because he does. The question is he truly a second option and worth the max contract he received which I don't think either is the case. I think he is better suited as a third option and having someone like Simons to fill whole as the second option and be a point guard would help this team greatly.

[Rainwater]

Giving him a max was one hell of a gamble that I wouldn’t have taken considering the shooting performance he delivered all of last year (and got even worse in the Olympics). No one knows how it will turn out but we’ll soon find out. It will be a disaster if that shot doesn’t start falling.

Let’s hope it doesn’t evolve into whatever is going on with Mikal Bridges right now.

Feel like there is a massive amount of overreaction going around lol. I mean, his play alone even without a three has been on par with pretty much every other guy with an extension (Mobley, Cade, Barnes).

Not sure how that would be a disaster but paying him like $5-8 million less would be a relative steal or something. Obviously we want his shot to come back but this isn't Beal sort of situation, especially with a 23 year old that does a lot of other things.

This might be a hot take, but I personally think Mobley, Cade, and Barnes have higher ceilings and will be better in comparison to Franz; and therefore, are more deserving of their max contract. I can see those 3 being a #1 option for a team one day, I don't see that being the case with Franz. Again, that is a personal take. But with all that being said you have to overpay to keep a guy like Franz.

[Rainwater]

Lol telling me to do better and you’re ignoring 82 regular season games plus a 7 game playoff series last year….?

this is silly...Goga and Cole also won 47 games

Franz was second in sweater vest points on a 47 win team. Goga and Cole made a fraction of the impact.

lol, I don't know if you were being serious with this post.

Everyone played a role in the 47 wins last year particualy the bench.

[eyriq]

this is silly...Goga and Cole also won 47 games

Franz was second in sweater vest points on a 47 win team. Goga and Cole made a fraction of the impact.

lol, I don't know if you were being serious with this post.

Everyone played a role in the 47 wins last year particualy the bench.

I am always serious about sweater vest points.

[J-Mezzy]

The question isn’t whether Franz deserved a Max or not, but more should max deals have qualifiers?

Based on the market and the standard that has been set, Franz is a max player.

But I feel that this standard is wrong. Players like Mobley or OG or Franz should not be max players. That should be only for the very top players in the league

[p0peye]

The question isn’t whether Franz deserved a Max or not, but more should max deals have qualifiers?

Based on the market and the standard that has been set, Franz is a max player.

But I feel that this standard is wrong. Players like Mobley or OG or Franz should not be max players. That should be only for the very top players in the league

If player's performance hasn't meritted a max contract extensions, but he is unwilling to sign for less, teams can:
a) use restricted free agency to establish market value and than make a decision,
b) trade said player in a package,
c) not extend the player or
d) succumb to pressure to not damage relationship with player and sign them to max extension anyway, hoping that young player will eventually raise his performance to level where he deserves the contract or at least is not a negative asset.

With option (d) team is starting the contract in red and hopes to get back to black. It is not uncommon that team loses more assets, as they either get financially unable to resign other players or in a package with extended player to be able to get that contract off the books.

I am stating only obvious information and not predicting how Franz contract will end up looking.

[VFX]

Franz hit a wall last season despite improving slightly in nearly every metric aside from shooting.

However, as a max level player tasked with scoring it’s just very difficult to justify if you aren’t shooting the basketball from outside.

Personally, I believe you have to be in serious consideration to be an allstar to be even considered a guy “worthy” of a max deal. Paolo is already there in year 2 and Franz is not. This is why Mobley, Kuminga, and Cade are absolutely not max level guys either.

Players want it both ways.. “This guy got X money and here’s my stats comparatively” … well no, you weren’t an allstar and received zero votes compared to your peers who are better paid.

The bottom line is that if you are going to be considered someone that is labeled a “scorer” you have to be able to shoot the basketball. Franz regressing in that category last season, without becoming an allstar, justifiably gives people pause when he was handed a max. Because at that point you are just paying him with expectations to become that player and not because he actually is that guy at the moment.

With that being said, yes Orlando should have maxed Franz. Why? Because there isn’t an alternative and he’s arguably worth that to this organization. Comparison is the thief of joy, but a max level Franz does not equal a max level Doncic/Giannis/Jokic or even Haliburton. That’s just reality.

[OnlyFranz22]

Only person I would get rid of Franz for is Fox.

[three3d]

Franz is so good that a lot of us are okay with the things he’s bad at. But the thing he’s the worst at his a key element to anyone’s game. I honestly don’t understand why or how he’s as effective as he is driving to the basket making layups. That’s a testament to how good he is and how smooth his footwork is, you can literally play off him and dare him to shoot. Yet he keeps getting to the rim.

It’s so frustrating because how much better could he be with a mid range game? Paolo has every defender’s attention on the court, they literally pack the paint with four people around him or more. How much better could Paolo be if Franz expanded his game?