The German elephant in the room.

[three3d]

Do the Anfernee Simons haters on here realize what someone like Simons could do for Franz’s game? Do you realize what putting Simons between Franz and Paolo would creat? This slow offense would immediately become faster paced and both Franz and Paolo could get those defensive mismatches easier. I don’t care about Simons defense at all. You know why? Because we have Jalen Suggs, because we have KCP, because we have AB, we have glue guys that can lock a player down. We don’t have a bucket better, we don’t have a guy that creates gravity on the floor the way he would. Franz has no ego, he’s perfectly fine being the 2nd or 3rd option. This is Paolo’s team and we should al want what is going to make this work right.

[zaymon]

Franz hit a wall last season despite improving slightly in nearly every metric aside from shooting.

However, as a max level player tasked with scoring it’s just very difficult to justify if you aren’t shooting the basketball from outside.

Personally, I believe you have to be in serious consideration to be an allstar to be even considered a guy “worthy” of a max deal. Paolo is already there in year 2 and Franz is not. This is why Mobley, Kuminga, and Cade are absolutely not max level guys either.

Players want it both ways.. “This guy got X money and here’s my stats comparatively” … well no, you weren’t an allstar and received zero votes compared to your peers who are better paid.

The bottom line is that if you are going to be considered someone that is labeled a “scorer” you have to be able to shoot the basketball. Franz regressing in that category last season, without becoming an allstar, justifiably gives people pause when he was handed a max. Because at that point you are just paying him with expectations to become that player and not because he actually is that guy at the moment.

With that being said, yes Orlando should have maxed Franz. Why? Because there isn’t an alternative and he’s arguably worth that to this organization. Comparison is the thief of joy, but a max level Franz does not equal a max level Doncic/Giannis/Jokic or even Haliburton. That’s just reality.

I think you are using bad criteria. You think Barnes who made allstar game but his team sucked is more worthy than a guy who was best player on a young team winning 47 games ? Basketball is a team game. People forgeting that is how germans won world cup and Serbians almost defeated USA in the Olympics. We want to nourish our ego and pay for stats or we want to win games?

[VFX]

Franz hit a wall last season despite improving slightly in nearly every metric aside from shooting.

However, as a max level player tasked with scoring it’s just very difficult to justify if you aren’t shooting the basketball from outside.

Personally, I believe you have to be in serious consideration to be an allstar to be even considered a guy “worthy” of a max deal. Paolo is already there in year 2 and Franz is not. This is why Mobley, Kuminga, and Cade are absolutely not max level guys either.

Players want it both ways.. “This guy got X money and here’s my stats comparatively” … well no, you weren’t an allstar and received zero votes compared to your peers who are better paid.

The bottom line is that if you are going to be considered someone that is labeled a “scorer” you have to be able to shoot the basketball. Franz regressing in that category last season, without becoming an allstar, justifiably gives people pause when he was handed a max. Because at that point you are just paying him with expectations to become that player and not because he actually is that guy at the moment.

With that being said, yes Orlando should have maxed Franz. Why? Because there isn’t an alternative and he’s arguably worth that to this organization. Comparison is the thief of joy, but a max level Franz does not equal a max level Doncic/Giannis/Jokic or even Haliburton. That’s just reality.

I think you are using bad criteria. You think Barnes who made allstar game but his team sucked is more worthy than a guy who was best player on a young team winning 47 games ? Basketball is a team game. People forgeting that is how germans won world cup and Serbians almost defeated USA in the Olympics. We want to nourish our ego and pay for stats or we want to win games?

So Franz deserves the max because of what he did in the Olympics, but IM using bad criteria?

Again, read my last sentence. I said FOR ORLANDO he’s worth max. Doubtful many other teams would hand him a max though unless they are bad and looking for a go-to guy. The sooner you admit not every max contract player is the same the sooner your argument falls apart.

Barnes is barely deserving, but you can make the case somewhat. I think for Toronto he’s worth it as they are currently constructed. But yeah, his team is bad and I don’t think he’s really worth max either being a reserve. Toronto gave him the max for the same reason Mobley got one from Cleveland.. it’s better for them and their situation than him hitting the market and bruising the relationship.

What other criteria should be used? You are comparing superstars to stars, allstars to non allstars, but all of those guys should be getting max? lol. No.

Franz, Cade, Mobley, J. Green, Kuminga, Suggs are NOT max players and are NOT allstars. You can add Barnes to that list too if you want.

[pepe1991]

Franz was probably best Magic player in regular season. And in open market finding versitale 6'10, 23 years old player who can give you some 18-20 ppg, 3-5 rpg, 3-5 apg is probably worth of max, especially because his defense is probably the most underrated aspect of his game ( low key racism , white = bad defender stereotype ).

I would also argue that Mobley can be max contract player, but only if he plays C. His biggest issue has nothing to do with him, guy had 21 ppg, 9 rpg, 3 apg, 1 bpg vs Celtics. But when you pair him with Allen it's just problem and you don't get most out of him.


NBA created max contract to help rebuilding and smaller teams keep their BEST players. Teams f***ed themselfs up by throwing max contracts at every above average player they have. Over time max contract turned into status simbol. You are either lottery pick "max contract guy" or not elite player, in eyes of players and their agents.

By doing so, that sabotaged whole NBA concept and small market teams sabotaged themselfs.

If you work under some $140M cap, your max contract starts at $40 M, by any financial plan and economic approach, max contract should be reserved for top 10-15 best players only.
Instead, you have 50 players with salary at least $30 M a year and around 42 players who signed max contracts or are near max

Market got so f*** up that Isaiah Hartenstein makes $30 M a year

Now brace yourself for this epic career numbers:
6 PPG
5,6 RPG
1,7 APG
0,9 blocks

that's your $30M a year guy right there.

NBA market is complete BS. Every time nba makes the atemppt to fix situation and make market less idiotic, GMs and teams decide to self sabotage further. At some point revenue will simply platoe and with expansion of costs, owners will probably start to lose money and sell teams.
Even if you use few brain cells, it's not hard to figure that nba aiming at expansion only because current costs aren't sustainable for domestic league without opening market for rest of the globe. And looming Steph, Lebron, Durant departure will also hurt viewership probably a lot, given nba is superstar driven league and we saw post Jordan decline in 2000s.

[VFX]

I’d also like to take the time to state the obvious.

People looking primarily at stats as the reason a player is deserving of the max, without factoring in DEFENSE, is being disingenuous.

Yes, Franz defense should be factored into the equation. OG, Hartenstein, Suggs, and Holiday aren’t getting a bag because of their stellar numbers on offense… obviously idiots.

[pepe1991]

I'm sorry but there simply is no justification of paying somebody as limited as Hartenstein $30 M a year. It's complete lunacy.

Guy as "defensive specialist" got owned by -other defensive specialist in nba playoffs, where in second round of playoffs combines for 1 FGM over 60 min ( game 6+ game 7, plus minus -37) where Turner was putting 16 ppg on 65% TS on .
Oh btw, Turner makes $20M a year.


Jrue Holiday on $30M a year only makes sense if you know your championship window is 2-3 years. You know his contract will be dead weight later. Guy will be 37 and payed $37M .

That's also probably justification for OKC to sign I-Hart. You know it's bad contract but you just go balls deep to win title in next two years , knowing resing of Holmgren & J-Will will fry you in near future anyway.


So, conclusion, throwing $30M a year on role players only makes sense if your goal is to win title in very short period of time.
It doesn't really work if you are nowhere near contending and just resinging guys over market value for shi* & gigles.

[VFX]

I'm sorry but there simply is no justification of paying somebody as limited as Hartenstein $30 M a year. It's complete lunacy.

Guy as "defensive specialist" got owned by -other defensive specialist in nba playoffs, where in second round of playoffs combines for 1 FGM over 60 min ( game 6+ game 7, plus minus -37) where Turner was putting 16 ppg on 65% TS on .
Oh btw, Turner makes $20M a year.


Jrue Holiday on $30M a year only makes sense if you know your championship window is 2-3 years. You know his contract will be dead weight later. Guy will be 37 and payed $37M .

That's also probably justification for OKC to sign I-Hart. You know it's bad contract but you just go balls deep to win title in next two years , knowing resing of Holmgren & J-Will will fry you in near future anyway.


So, conclusion, throwing $30M a year on role players only makes sense if your goal is to win title in very short period of time.
It doesn't really work if you are nowhere near contending and just resinging guys over market value for shi* & gigles.

Obviously OKC thought paying what they needed (another defensive big) instead of what they didn't (point forward). You have to spend the money pepe and the expenditure still has to make sense. So they'd rather pay IHart for what they need instead of GIddey $30m for what they don't. They can move him later when they re-sign those other guys. Caruso makes more sense for what they need short term.

It's like idiots claiming Jalen Green or Jordan Poole should be getting max money because they put up numbers on a **** team. Hey guess what? Orlando won a bunch of games last season because of their defense. Holy ****! Why don't we nitpick stats for the primary guy on the team that made that happen while making an all-defense team. Wanna know the only guy younger than him on that list? Victor Wembanyama. Thats it. Thats the context laid out for you whether you want to swallow it or not.

You never answered my question from the other day.

WHO is Orlando giving this money to as an alternative? It's great to say the system in place sucks (I agree it does), but they have to pay players to build a roster and win games. You are talking about an organization who's biggest free agent signing was Rashard Lewis almost 2 decades ago. An organization who's FO moves nobody and lets value die on the vine with every acquisition. OKC is a smarter organization because they actually move players like Giddey despite falling in line with overpaying a guy like IHart. It's a pick your poison situation but you can do that when you are #1 in the West or wanting to keep your top 3 defense.

Its a revolutionary thought... acquiring and paying players that make your young talent's lives easier rather than more difficult. Addressing glaring weaknesses in your roster rather than tripling down on mistakes and paying them accordingly. Amazing.

[pepe1991]

Let's not pretend all this is black & white.

Jordan Poole didn't get his contract by stat padding on bad team. He did that on championship winner , averaging 17 ppg on 65% TS during championship run.
It just didn't translate. For argument sake, even during Summer of Poole - i argued he isn't better than Tyler Herro.
Most didn't agree.

If you are going to argue for I Hart at $30M mark, my only logical question would be- why you than claim Evan Mobley isn't max player?
Better defender, better pure shotblocker, better offensive player, 3 yeras younger, more mobile, more potent, can play inside out or outside in as roller. Mobley beats him in every single category in basketball.


Jrue Holiday name always irritates me the most.
People need to understand how elite Jrue Holiday was early on.

Age 21 - Jrue was leading scorer vs 50-16(best regular season team) Bulls in PPG, APG, third in BPG, second in APG. "But Rose got hurt" -yea, but Bulls were 18-9 without him in that same year.
But that's not all, in second round he was 76ers leading scorer and assist man, and they took Celtics to freaking game 7.

Very next year, age 22, Jrue is allstar AND 4th in APGs. People left behind him: Lebron, Westbrook, Parker, Lillard etc.


You said Cade , Mobley, (Franz? ) aren't max contracts, but you would pay Suggs something that isn't far off. But your argument why Suggs could be said for all players you wouldn't sign max contract on.

And this is that closed circle of small market teams shooting themselfs in foot with "who else if not him" logic.


Thing is, Suggs is role player based on what we saw over 3 yeras. Players of his skillset simply don't cost $30 M a year. That's why Weltman didn't resign him yet.
This whole "all nba defensive team member" isn't as exclusive as you think. Herb Jones, Caruso, Smart,Thybulle,Eric Bledsoe , PatBev, Covington, Oladipo all made it from 2018- present day. How many of them signed near max contracts?

Being all defensive guard in nba still means that people will be dropping 40 and even 50 in your face in playoffs ( Mitchell already did it to Suggs). Perimeter defense and perimeter defenders aren't as vital for team defense as PF-C position is, due rim protection & defensive structure.

[ibraheim718]

When guarded by Jalen Suggs, Donovan Mitchell averaged around 23.5 points against the Orlando Magic, shooting with splits of .405/.278/.923 from the field, three-point range, and the free throw line; with Suggs' tight defense often forcing Mitchell into rushed shots and turnovers.

Lower scoring average: Compared to his overall scoring average, Mitchell generally had a slightly lower scoring output when primarily guarded by Suggs.
Increased turnovers: Suggs' defensive pressure often led to more turnovers from Mitchell.
Difficulty creating space: Mitchell struggled to consistently get good looks at the basket due to Suggs' close coverage.

[zaymon]

Franz hit a wall last season despite improving slightly in nearly every metric aside from shooting.

However, as a max level player tasked with scoring it’s just very difficult to justify if you aren’t shooting the basketball from outside.

Personally, I believe you have to be in serious consideration to be an allstar to be even considered a guy “worthy” of a max deal. Paolo is already there in year 2 and Franz is not. This is why Mobley, Kuminga, and Cade are absolutely not max level guys either.

Players want it both ways.. “This guy got X money and here’s my stats comparatively” … well no, you weren’t an allstar and received zero votes compared to your peers who are better paid.

The bottom line is that if you are going to be considered someone that is labeled a “scorer” you have to be able to shoot the basketball. Franz regressing in that category last season, without becoming an allstar, justifiably gives people pause when he was handed a max. Because at that point you are just paying him with expectations to become that player and not because he actually is that guy at the moment.

With that being said, yes Orlando should have maxed Franz. Why? Because there isn’t an alternative and he’s arguably worth that to this organization. Comparison is the thief of joy, but a max level Franz does not equal a max level Doncic/Giannis/Jokic or even Haliburton. That’s just reality.

I think you are using bad criteria. You think Barnes who made allstar game but his team sucked is more worthy than a guy who was best player on a young team winning 47 games ? Basketball is a team game. People forgeting that is how germans won world cup and Serbians almost defeated USA in the Olympics. We want to nourish our ego and pay for stats or we want to win games?

So Franz deserves the max because of what he did in the Olympics, but IM using bad criteria?

Again, read my last sentence. I said FOR ORLANDO he’s worth max. Doubtful many other teams would hand him a max though unless they are bad and looking for a go-to guy. The sooner you admit not every max contract player is the same the sooner your argument falls apart.

Barnes is barely deserving, but you can make the case somewhat. I think for Toronto he’s worth it as they are currently constructed. But yeah, his team is bad and I don’t think he’s really worth max either being a reserve. Toronto gave him the max for the same reason Mobley got one from Cleveland.. it’s better for them and their situation than him hitting the market and bruising the relationship.

What other criteria should be used? You are comparing superstars to stars, allstars to non allstars, but all of those guys should be getting max? lol. No.

Franz, Cade, Mobley, J. Green, Kuminga, Suggs are NOT max players and are NOT allstars. You can add Barnes to that list too if you want.

Franz deserved max becouse he is 6'10 wing, who can defend guards on switches, can get to the rim at high volume and cares more about winning than his own stats. He is also successful both in NBA and FIBA as propably best two way player on both teams. You just ignored what i wrote and did a straw man argument.
Its interesting that Suggs is worth 30m+ contract despite his stats becouse of his impact on winning but Wagner is not worth max contract while having much better stats and much bigger impact on winning while playing more important position, being more healthy and being more scouted by other teams.
Also who you have next to your two max players matters a lot. Even Lebron needed right supporting cast. Same with Giannis. Same with Tatum. Bledsoe, Smart and Westbrook were the problem to solve not max players. Suggs can be Jrue but right now he is closer to Smart.

[VFX]

I think you are using bad criteria. You think Barnes who made allstar game but his team sucked is more worthy than a guy who was best player on a young team winning 47 games ? Basketball is a team game. People forgeting that is how germans won world cup and Serbians almost defeated USA in the Olympics. We want to nourish our ego and pay for stats or we want to win games?

So Franz deserves the max because of what he did in the Olympics, but IM using bad criteria?

Again, read my last sentence. I said FOR ORLANDO he’s worth max. Doubtful many other teams would hand him a max though unless they are bad and looking for a go-to guy. The sooner you admit not every max contract player is the same the sooner your argument falls apart.

Barnes is barely deserving, but you can make the case somewhat. I think for Toronto he’s worth it as they are currently constructed. But yeah, his team is bad and I don’t think he’s really worth max either being a reserve. Toronto gave him the max for the same reason Mobley got one from Cleveland.. it’s better for them and their situation than him hitting the market and bruising the relationship.

What other criteria should be used? You are comparing superstars to stars, allstars to non allstars, but all of those guys should be getting max? lol. No.

Franz, Cade, Mobley, J. Green, Kuminga, Suggs are NOT max players and are NOT allstars. You can add Barnes to that list too if you want.

Franz deserved max becouse he is 6'10 wing, who can defend guards on switches, can get to the rim at high volume and cares more about winning than his own stats. He is also successful both in NBA and FIBA as propably best two way player on both teams. You just ignored what i wrote and did a straw man argument.
Its interesting that Suggs is worth 30m+ contract despite his stats becouse of his impact on winning but Wagner is not worth max contract while having much better stats and much bigger impact on winning while playing more important position, being more healthy and being more scouted by other teams.
Also who you have next to your two max players matters a lot. Even Lebron needed right supporting cast. Same with Giannis. Same with Tatum. Bledsoe, Smart and Westbrook were the problem to solve not max players. Suggs can be Jrue but right now he is closer to Smart.

My criteria for having a max contract whatsoever is the low bar of being an allstar. You could actually make a stricter argument requiring a player to make an all-nba first, second, or third team for such a contract. There are already these incentives in place for players.

Why? Because there are a ton of guys that put up seemingly good stat lines on terrible teams that go nowhere. It’s a team game right? Spending money doesn’t automatically mean the supporting cast makes sense next to your max players.

FWIW I don’t think Suggs is worth $30m currently. Just as I don’t think Franz is worth max at face value. In Orlando? Different question entirely. I think the pros outweigh the cons in handing them that kind of money.

[Rainwater]

Only person I would get rid of Franz for is Fox.

That is going too far, Franz is going nowhere. The Magic just need another secondary creator/scorer.

[eyriq]

Only person I would get rid of Franz for is Fox.

That is going too far, Franz is going nowhere. The Magic just need another secondary creator/scorer.

Secondary? The offense is ran through Franz and Paolo and will be for the next five years.

To use the Batman analogy, the Magic have their Batman and Robin. They're now looking for their Alfred. It's probably the guy that joined them as one of the youngest trios to score 20 plus points in a playoff game, but that's just me.

Read on Twitter

?t=gOLHdQdcFs9NxbGMVd8kqQ&s=19

[VFX]

And this is that closed circle of small market teams shooting themselfs in foot with "who else if not him" logic.


Thing is, Suggs is role player based on what we saw over 3 yeras. Players of his skillset simply don't cost $30 M a year. That's why Weltman didn't resign him yet.
This whole "all nba defensive team member" isn't as exclusive as you think. Herb Jones, Caruso, Smart,Thybulle,Eric Bledsoe , PatBev, Covington, Oladipo all made it from 2018- present day. How many of them signed near max contracts?

Being all defensive guard in nba still means that people will be dropping 40 and even 50 in your face in playoffs ( Mitchell already did it to Suggs). Perimeter defense and perimeter defenders aren't as vital for team defense as PF-C position is, due rim protection & defensive structure.

This is you not giving context to a discussion.

How did Orlando generate wins last season?
The answer is their defense. Arguing anything otherwise is nonsense. You know this based on where the offense was ranked.

I’ve already said Suggs is NOT worth $30m, but that doesn’t mean Franz IS worth max. Those things can be mutually exclusive. You seem to be missing that.

Welcome to the conversation about “if not them, then who?” It’s been going on for years now about the small markets. It’s the crux of nearly all arguments we have that you seem to never put together.

You, a guy that gets mad at the draft and prospects, and doesn’t think Orlando will sign someone or make trades…. Still haven’t grasped that retaining these drafted players is the only way Magic will ever be, or have ever been, relevant.

Suggs, a 3rd year player, did great against Mitchell in the playoffs. You are grasping at straws to elevate Franz in this argument by downplaying Suggs. Again, I’m kinda hoping he tests the market at this point so people can stfu. You’d probably like us to trade Suggs so the defense goes down to average to match our offense. Sounds Great!

The expectations for Franz have now been set. He has to not have games like he had in the Cleveland series if he’s going to be considered a MAX guy. He’s reverting back to a two level scorer with good defense that takes over games occasionally. Sorry, that’s just a good starter that regressed from last season. He’s still worth paying though in Orlando’s position just like Mobley is worth it in Cleveland’s.

[Rainwater]

Only person I would get rid of Franz for is Fox.

That is going too far, Franz is going nowhere. The Magic just need another secondary creator/scorer.

Secondary? The offense is ran through Franz and Paolo and will be for the next five years.

To use the Batman analogy, the Magic have their Batman and Robin. They're now looking for their Alfred. It's probably the guy that joined them as one of the youngest trios to score 20 plus points in a playoff game, but that's just me.

Read on Twitter

?t=gOLHdQdcFs9NxbGMVd8kqQ&s=19

This is a personal take, but I just don't trust Franz as secondary option. And I don't trust Suggs as third option either (mostly due to his lack of play making). Franz disappeared way too often during the season last year in my opinion. The postseason displayed my issues with Franz, if Franz was consistent the Magic easily win that series. While Paolo was pretty consistent, the series was really dependent on if Franz and Suggs showed up. In the games Suggs and Franz played well they won and those they didn't they lost. Game 7 was a complete let down by Franz. I just don't trust Franz.

Sometimes I feel like Franz doesn't have that alpha mentally to be a lead offensive guy.

[three3d]

That is going too far, Franz is going nowhere. The Magic just need another secondary creator/scorer.

Secondary? The offense is ran through Franz and Paolo and will be for the next five years.

To use the Batman analogy, the Magic have their Batman and Robin. They're now looking for their Alfred. It's probably the guy that joined them as one of the youngest trios to score 20 plus points in a playoff game, but that's just me.

Read on Twitter

?t=gOLHdQdcFs9NxbGMVd8kqQ&s=19

This is a personal take, but I just don't trust Franz as secondary option. And I don't trust Suggs as third option either (mostly due to his lack of play making). Franz disappeared way too often during the season last year in my opinion. The postseason displayed my issues with Franz, if Franz was consistent the Magic easily win that series. While Paolo was pretty consistent, the series was really dependent on if Franz and Suggs showed up. In the games Suggs and Franz played well they won and those they didn't they lost. Game 7 was a complete let down by Franz. I just don't trust Franz.

Sometimes I feel like Franz doesn't have that alpha mentally to be a lead offensive guy.

I don’t see Franz and Paolo together on the same team leading us to a Championship and if it came down to it Franz is the easy man out

[three3d]

That is going too far, Franz is going nowhere. The Magic just need another secondary creator/scorer.

Secondary? The offense is ran through Franz and Paolo and will be for the next five years.

To use the Batman analogy, the Magic have their Batman and Robin. They're now looking for their Alfred. It's probably the guy that joined them as one of the youngest trios to score 20 plus points in a playoff game, but that's just me.

Read on Twitter

?t=gOLHdQdcFs9NxbGMVd8kqQ&s=19

This is a personal take, but I just don't trust Franz as secondary option. And I don't trust Suggs as third option either (mostly due to his lack of play making). Franz disappeared way too often during the season last year in my opinion. The postseason displayed my issues with Franz, if Franz was consistent the Magic easily win that series. While Paolo was pretty consistent, the series was really dependent on if Franz and Suggs showed up. In the games Suggs and Franz played well they won and those they didn't they lost. Game 7 was a complete let down by Franz. I just don't trust Franz.

Sometimes I feel like Franz doesn't have that alpha mentally to be a lead offensive guy.

The Olympics confirmed Franz doesn’t have the Alpha mentality. Franz was the best player or should have been on that team, he sat back and let Schroder jack up horrible shots.

[Rainwater]

Secondary? The offense is ran through Franz and Paolo and will be for the next five years.

To use the Batman analogy, the Magic have their Batman and Robin. They're now looking for their Alfred. It's probably the guy that joined them as one of the youngest trios to score 20 plus points in a playoff game, but that's just me.

Read on Twitter

?t=gOLHdQdcFs9NxbGMVd8kqQ&s=19

This is a personal take, but I just don't trust Franz as secondary option. And I don't trust Suggs as third option either (mostly due to his lack of play making). Franz disappeared way too often during the season last year in my opinion. The postseason displayed my issues with Franz, if Franz was consistent the Magic easily win that series. While Paolo was pretty consistent, the series was really dependent on if Franz and Suggs showed up. In the games Suggs and Franz played well they won and those they didn't they lost. Game 7 was a complete let down by Franz. I just don't trust Franz.

Sometimes I feel like Franz doesn't have that alpha mentally to be a lead offensive guy.

I don’t see Franz and Paolo together on the same team leading us to a Championship and if it came down to it Franz is the easy man out

You are way harder on Franz than I am. Paolo and Franz can work but Franz would have to prove me wrong and play better. And they have plenty of time, given their age.

I view Franz like Brandon Ingram.

[three3d]

This is a personal take, but I just don't trust Franz as secondary option. And I don't trust Suggs as third option either (mostly due to his lack of play making). Franz disappeared way too often during the season last year in my opinion. The postseason displayed my issues with Franz, if Franz was consistent the Magic easily win that series. While Paolo was pretty consistent, the series was really dependent on if Franz and Suggs showed up. In the games Suggs and Franz played well they won and those they didn't they lost. Game 7 was a complete let down by Franz. I just don't trust Franz.

Sometimes I feel like Franz doesn't have that alpha mentally to be a lead offensive guy.

I don’t see Franz and Paolo together on the same team leading us to a Championship and if it came down to it Franz is the easy man out

You are way harder on Franz than I am. Paolo and Franz can work but Franz would have to prove me wrong and play better. And they have plenty of time, given their age.

They could work together but definitely not without a combo guard to play in between them. Franz and Paolo can’t play off each other without Franz becoming a 3 level scorer.

[Rainwater]

I don’t see Franz and Paolo together on the same team leading us to a Championship and if it came down to it Franz is the easy man out

You are way harder on Franz than I am. Paolo and Franz can work but Franz would have to prove me wrong and play better. And they have plenty of time, given their age.

They could work together but definitely not without a combo guard to play in between them. Franz and Paolo can’t play off each other without Franz becoming a 3 level scorer.

I feel like that is the biggest question