The German elephant in the room.

Post #81 » by **eyriq** » Sun Oct 20, 2024 9:17 pm

three3d wrote:
Rainwater wrote:
three3d wrote:
I don’t see Franz and Paolo together on the same team leading us to a Championship and if it came down to it Franz is the easy man out

You are way harder on Franz than I am. Paolo and Franz can work but Franz would have to prove me wrong and play better. And they have plenty of time, given their age.

They could work together but definitely not without a combo guard to play in between them. Franz and Paolo can’t play off each other without Franz becoming a 3 level scorer.

They're already working together and we haven't even tried to put a team around them

basketballRob · Post #82 » by **basketballRob** » Sun Oct 20, 2024 10:51 pm

three3d wrote:
Rainwater wrote:
eyriq wrote:Secondary? The offense is ran through Franz and Paolo and will be for the next five years.

To use the Batman analogy, the Magic have their Batman and Robin. They're now looking for their Alfred. It's probably the guy that joined them as one of the youngest trios to score 20 plus points in a playoff game, but that's just me.

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This is a personal take, but I just don't trust Franz as secondary option. And I don't trust Suggs as third option either (mostly due to his lack of play making). Franz disappeared way too often during the season last year in my opinion. The postseason displayed my issues with Franz, if Franz was consistent the Magic easily win that series. While Paolo was pretty consistent, the series was really dependent on if Franz and Suggs showed up. In the games Suggs and Franz played well they won and those they didn't they lost. Game 7 was a complete let down by Franz. I just don't trust Franz.

Sometimes I feel like Franz doesn't have that alpha mentally to be a lead offensive guy.

The Olympics confirmed Franz doesn’t have the Alpha mentality. Franz was the best player or should have been on that team, he sat back and let Schroder jack up horrible shots.

Good point. I'm pretty sure Jayson Tatum also got benched when he was in the Olympics at 22 years old

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JoshuaPotter · Post #83 » by **JoshuaPotter** » Mon Oct 21, 2024 12:54 pm

Franz playing over the summer has always given me concerns of burnout for him. I think rest is important as when does he rest? Any and all concerns of him to me are still overblown. We will see how Paolo + Franz + Suggs handle life game one as an away game.

byeganyo · Post #84 » by **byeganyo** » Mon Oct 21, 2024 1:38 pm

SOUL wrote:
byeganyo wrote:
eyriq wrote:Every piece of evidence we have says he is worth the max. Him regressing to a non-max-worthy player would be a colossal fall off. I don't think we're appreciating how good he is given how young he is.

HE IS 23 going 24.
This is not young young in NBA, he should be entering his prime soon.

That is extremely young. I mean, obviously not 19 or anything. But he just turned 23.

Most NBA primes are from 26-31. The only facet people are worried about is his three.

Yeah, he is 23, this is not extremely young in professional sports come on.
KD at 23 - nba finals, 2 times 1st team nba
Lebron at 23 - nba finals, 3 times all nba
Luka at 23 - 3 times all nba
Giannis at 23 - all nba, all defense
Tatum - all nba
Ant - all nba
Jokic - a slow starter, second round pick, in his fourth season was 1st team all nba.

All of those players were/are considered stars by the time they were 23-24.
There is a path for Franz to be more than elite level role player, but lets not pretend that he is ahead of the curve and there is plenty of time for him to step on it.

Rainwater · Post #85 » by **Rainwater** » Mon Oct 21, 2024 2:14 pm

byeganyo wrote:
SOUL wrote:
byeganyo wrote:
HE IS 23 going 24.
This is not young young in NBA, he should be entering his prime soon.

That is extremely young. I mean, obviously not 19 or anything. But he just turned 23.

Most NBA primes are from 26-31. The only facet people are worried about is his three.

Yeah, he is 23, this is not extremely young in professional sports come on.
KD at 23 - nba finals, 2 times 1st team nba
Lebron at 23 - nba finals, 3 times all nba
Luka at 23 - 3 times all nba
Giannis at 23 - all nba, all defense
Tatum - all nba
Ant - all nba
Jokic - a slow starter, second round pick, in his fourth season was 1st team all nba.

All of those players were/are considered stars by the time they were 23-24.
There is a path for Franz to be more than elite level role player, but lets not pretend that he is ahead of the curve and there is plenty of time for him to step on it.

To be fair the guys you listed are not the avg NBA players, those are generational talents. Joker, James, Durant, and Giannis are arguably top 20, top 25 all time.

And in terms of actually peak numbers and winning titles, Soul is correct 25-31 are prime years. Even as a guy who has doubts about Franz as a lead guy, he has plenty of time to prove me and others wrong.

three3d · Post #86 » by **three3d** » Mon Oct 21, 2024 2:25 pm

I’ll be watching closely Wednesday night to see how Franz and Paolo play together. At some point it has got to stop being Paolo or Franz and become Paolo AND Franz. If that doesn’t happen then we could raise the question of,” Is Franz holding Paolo back?” because he would be holding Paolo back from being his best. If they can’t figure out how to play complementary basketball with each other Franz has to be traded.

Post #87 » by **Knightro** » Mon Oct 21, 2024 3:33 pm

I'm not worried about Franz and neither is the organization.

ORLMagicGirl15 · Post #88 » by **ORLMagicGirl15** » Mon Oct 21, 2024 3:57 pm

three3d wrote:I’ll be watching closely Wednesday night to see how Franz and Paolo play together. At some point it has got to stop being Paolo or Franz and become Paolo AND Franz. If that doesn’t happen then we could raise the question of,” Is Franz holding Paolo back?” because he would be holding Paolo back from being his best. If they can’t figure out how to play complementary basketball with each other Franz has to be traded.

What is this? They have played well together.

ORLMagicGirl15 · Post #89 » by **ORLMagicGirl15** » Mon Oct 21, 2024 3:58 pm

byeganyo wrote:
SOUL wrote:
byeganyo wrote:
HE IS 23 going 24.
This is not young young in NBA, he should be entering his prime soon.

That is extremely young. I mean, obviously not 19 or anything. But he just turned 23.

Most NBA primes are from 26-31. The only facet people are worried about is his three.

Yeah, he is 23, this is not extremely young in professional sports come on.
KD at 23 - nba finals, 2 times 1st team nba
Lebron at 23 - nba finals, 3 times all nba
Luka at 23 - 3 times all nba
Giannis at 23 - all nba, all defense
Tatum - all nba
Ant - all nba
Jokic - a slow starter, second round pick, in his fourth season was 1st team all nba.

All of those players were/are considered stars by the time they were 23-24.
There is a path for Franz to be more than elite level role player, but lets not pretend that he is ahead of the curve and there is plenty of time for him to step on it.

Are we being serious right now?

ibraheim718 · Post #90 » by **ibraheim718** » Mon Oct 21, 2024 4:01 pm

It'll be extremely disappointing if he plays through another summer with the german national team.

Post #91 » by **Knightro** » Mon Oct 21, 2024 4:07 pm

ibraheim718 wrote:It'll be extremely disappointing if he plays through another summer with the german national team.

That's not going to stop happening whether we like it or not.

I'd bet playing for Germany is even more important to him than anything to do with the Magic.

ibraheim718 · Post #92 » by **ibraheim718** » Mon Oct 21, 2024 4:35 pm

Knightro wrote:
ibraheim718 wrote:It'll be extremely disappointing if he plays through another summer with the german national team.

That's not going to stop happening whether we like it or not.

I'd bet playing for Germany is even more important to him than anything to do with the Magic.

If true that would be concerning because the Magic vis a vis the fans are paying him a huge salary for what he does for Orlando not the German national team.

three3d · Post #93 » by **three3d** » Mon Oct 21, 2024 4:35 pm

Knightro wrote:I'm not worried about Franz and neither is the organization.

That might be why this organization has 0 NBA Titles going into its 36th season and why every time we have a Star player they seek a trade out of Orlando. Just saying

Post #94 » by **Def Swami** » Mon Oct 21, 2024 4:35 pm

Knightro wrote:I'm not worried about Franz and neither is the organization.

This is where I land as well

three3d · Post #95 » by **three3d** » Mon Oct 21, 2024 4:38 pm

ORLMagicGirl15 wrote:
three3d wrote:I’ll be watching closely Wednesday night to see how Franz and Paolo play together. At some point it has got to stop being Paolo or Franz and become Paolo AND Franz. If that doesn’t happen then we could raise the question of,” Is Franz holding Paolo back?” because he would be holding Paolo back from being his best. If they can’t figure out how to play complementary basketball with each other Franz has to be traded.

What is this? They have played well together.

Playing individually well at separate times throughout the season isn’t the same thing as playing off each other well together nightly though out the season…. That sounds a little confusing but hopefully you get what I’m trying to say.

three3d · Post #96 » by **three3d** » Mon Oct 21, 2024 4:39 pm

Def Swami wrote:
Knightro wrote:I'm not worried about Franz and neither is the organization.

This is where I land as well

Franz has disappeared in his last two big time games. That’s something to worry about.

Post #97 » by **eyriq** » Mon Oct 21, 2024 4:43 pm

three3d wrote:
Def Swami wrote:
Knightro wrote:I'm not worried about Franz and neither is the organization.

This is where I land as well

Franz has disappeared in his last two big time games. That’s something to worry about.

No, it isn't

thelead · Post #98 » by **thelead** » Mon Oct 21, 2024 4:48 pm

Over/under 33% from deep this year?

There is no way to know what the answer is but ya’ll would be lying if you say that you’re confident in the over.

I have little faith with him hitting open threes right now and to just dismiss that in 2024 is crazy for a max player.

I hope he figures it out but the Olympics shooting performance did not inspire any confidence.

VFX · Post #99 » by **VFX** » Mon Oct 21, 2024 5:29 pm

thelead wrote:Over/under 33% from deep this year?

There is no way to know what the answer is but ya’ll would be lying if you say that you’re confident in the over.

I have little faith with him hitting open threes right now and to just dismiss that in 2024 is crazy for a max player.

I hope he figures it out but the Olympics shooting performance did not inspire any confidence.

He looked like a timid rookie in preseason afraid to shoot the ball. Who knows.

three3d · Post #100 » by **three3d** » Mon Oct 21, 2024 5:29 pm

2020-21 Season ( Covid shortened) we went 21-51 and averaged as a team 104 points per game

2021-22: Franz’s rookie season 22-60 and team average of 104.2 points per game.

~Things didn’t take off for us till we drafted Paolo~

2022-23: Paolo’s rookie season 34-48 team average of 111.4 points per game & Paolo Rookie Of The Year Award

2023-24: team record 47-35 team scoring average 110.5 points per game.

Franz’s rookie impact was helping us land the #1 Draft Pick the following season.

I think this shows Paolo’s gravitational force on the floor has really helped Franz, but Franz as of right now has some pretty glaring weaknesses ( SHOOTING) that are going to limit him becoming a 1A or 1B player. What happens IF we put someone next to Paolo that can be that #2 option at all three levels?