Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 8

[TheGeneral99]

Scottie has the skillset and mindset of what you hope to see from your star player/ player that gets the most touches. He's a magnet, creates easy shots for orhers & has the size & explosiveness required to do so (Lebron mold). That's why I was never a big fan of Bosh as franchise player. He was miscast as a 1st option, but the truth was he was purely a scorer & a bir of a black hole in the 1st option role. It stagnated the rest of the team & it was too easy to defend.

Scottie's development is a little backwards compared to most young franchise players. Most of them are scorers that need to learn how to become facilitators. Scottie is a facilitator that needs to learn how to become a scorer.

Not a bad thing. In some.ways it might be easier to develop a player in this mold. I am looking forward to watcing him this season.

I agree mostly but to be fair to Bosh he was incredibly efficient offensively and we had one of the best offensive teams year after year with him.

The issue was that Colangelo surrounded him with horrible defensive players - guys like Calderon, Bargnani and Turkoglu were just awful defensively.

Our best year was in 2007 when Bosh had solid defensive players like Ford, Parker and Garbo...but sadly Ford and Garbo suffered career ending injuries during that year.

I would have loved with watch prime Lowry and prime Bosh together...would have been an insanely lethal duo.

[Reeko]

Scottie has the skillset and mindset of what you hope to see from your star player/ player that gets the most touches. He's a magnet, creates easy shots for orhers & has the size & explosiveness required to do so (Lebron mold). That's why I was never a big fan of Bosh as franchise player. He was miscast as a 1st option, but the truth was he was purely a scorer & a bir of a black hole in the 1st option role. It stagnated the rest of the team & it was too easy to defend.

Scottie's development is a little backwards compared to most young franchise players. Most of them are scorers that need to learn how to become facilitators. Scottie is a facilitator that needs to learn how to become a scorer.

Not a bad thing. In some.ways it might be easier to develop a player in this mold. I am looking forward to watcing him this season.

I agree mostly but to be fair to Bosh he was incredibly efficient offensively and we had one of the best offensive teams year after year with him.

The issue was that Colangelo surrounded him with horrible defensive players - guys like Calderon, Bargnani and Turkoglu were just awful defensively.

Our best year was in 2007 when Bosh had solid defensive players like Ford, Parker and Garbo...but sadly Ford and Garbo suffered career ending injuries during that year.

I would have loved with watch prime Lowry and prime Bosh together...would have been an insanely lethal duo.

Yeah, but still he was a major ball stopper and took forever to process what he was going to do once he had the ball, which 9 times out of 10 was shoot it. So yeah, as first option he was definitely flawed and he didn't know how to make his teammates better. He is hands down one of the best 3rd options of all time though.

[Badonkadonk]

Love watching technical vids about Scottie, rare that I see a worthwhile one from a non-Raps media guy but this one was excellent (and pretty accessible). It primarily shows how Scottie attacks various coverages, mostly stemming from PnR actions, and he slows down the action so you can really see the decision making come to life. Great stuff.

Watch on YouTube

[MEDIC]

Scottie has the skillset and mindset of what you hope to see from your star player/ player that gets the most touches. He's a magnet, creates easy shots for orhers & has the size & explosiveness required to do so (Lebron mold). That's why I was never a big fan of Bosh as franchise player. He was miscast as a 1st option, but the truth was he was purely a scorer & a bir of a black hole in the 1st option role. It stagnated the rest of the team & it was too easy to defend.

Scottie's development is a little backwards compared to most young franchise players. Most of them are scorers that need to learn how to become facilitators. Scottie is a facilitator that needs to learn how to become a scorer.

Not a bad thing. In some.ways it might be easier to develop a player in this mold. I am looking forward to watcing him this season.

I agree mostly but to be fair to Bosh he was incredibly efficient offensively and we had one of the best offensive teams year after year with him.

The issue was that Colangelo surrounded him with horrible defensive players - guys like Calderon, Bargnani and Turkoglu were just awful defensively.

Our best year was in 2007 when Bosh had solid defensive players like Ford, Parker and Garbo...but sadly Ford and Garbo suffered career ending injuries during that year.

I would have loved with watch prime Lowry and prime Bosh together...would have been an insanely lethal duo.

Yeah, but still he was a major ball stopper and took forever to process what he was going to do once he had the ball, which 9 times out of 10 was shoot it. So yeah, as first option he was definitely flawed and he didn't know how to make his teammates better. He is hands down one of the best 3rd options of all time though.

Yup. That's why he excelled in Miami. He was in the role that he always should have been. Complimentary scorer to a legit first option.

Watching him hold the ball for so long, waiting for him to make his iso move was not fun to watch. He had great numbers but that type of offense was never going to translate to legit playoff success. I also found that we relied so heavily on him for iso scoring that his effort on defense got worse as the years went by. I actually like Bosh's game in the early years better than iso Bosh. It was much more balanced.

[Reeko]

I agree mostly but to be fair to Bosh he was incredibly efficient offensively and we had one of the best offensive teams year after year with him.

The issue was that Colangelo surrounded him with horrible defensive players - guys like Calderon, Bargnani and Turkoglu were just awful defensively.

Our best year was in 2007 when Bosh had solid defensive players like Ford, Parker and Garbo...but sadly Ford and Garbo suffered career ending injuries during that year.

I would have loved with watch prime Lowry and prime Bosh together...would have been an insanely lethal duo.

Yeah, but still he was a major ball stopper and took forever to process what he was going to do once he had the ball, which 9 times out of 10 was shoot it. So yeah, as first option he was definitely flawed and he didn't know how to make his teammates better. He is hands down one of the best 3rd options of all time though.

Yup. That's why he excelled in Miami. He was in the role that he always should have been. Complimentary scorer to a legit first option.

Watching him hold the ball for so long, waiting for him to make his iso move was not fun to watch. He had great numbers but that type of offense was never going to translate to legit playoff success. I also found that we relied so heavily on him for iso scoring that his effort on defense got worse as the years went by. I actually like Bosh's game in the early years better than iso Bosh. It was much more balanced.

Him and Siakam are similar in that respect. I much preferred 2nd or 3rd option Pascal that provided elite defense (or close to), than 1st option Pascal that struggled to slide his feet to stay in front of his man and instead used his hands to play defense.

[MessiahUjiri]

Scottie has the skillset and mindset of what you hope to see from your star player/ player that gets the most touches. He's a magnet, creates easy shots for orhers & has the size & explosiveness required to do so (Lebron mold). That's why I was never a big fan of Bosh as franchise player. He was miscast as a 1st option, but the truth was he was purely a scorer & a bir of a black hole in the 1st option role. It stagnated the rest of the team & it was too easy to defend.

Scottie's development is a little backwards compared to most young franchise players. Most of them are scorers that need to learn how to become facilitators. Scottie is a facilitator that needs to learn how to become a scorer.

Not a bad thing. In some.ways it might be easier to develop a player in this mold. I am looking forward to watcing him this season.

I agree mostly but to be fair to Bosh he was incredibly efficient offensively and we had one of the best offensive teams year after year with him.

The issue was that Colangelo surrounded him with horrible defensive players - guys like Calderon, Bargnani and Turkoglu were just awful defensively.

Our best year was in 2007 when Bosh had solid defensive players like Ford, Parker and Garbo...but sadly Ford and Garbo suffered career ending injuries during that year.

I would have loved with watch prime Lowry and prime Bosh together...would have been an insanely lethal duo.

Yeah, but still he was a major ball stopper and took forever to process what he was going to do once he had the ball, which 9 times out of 10 was shoot it. So yeah, as first option he was definitely flawed and he didn't know how to make his teammates better. He is hands down one of the best 3rd options of all time though.

Everyone with half a scouting brain could see that Bosh was a fake franchise player. Remember that one season where Mike James averaged 20ppg on the Raps? Bosh was like the franchise player equivalent of that.


Colangelo was a short sighted GM who was more of a salesman than a scout.


You can clearly see that Scottie is a couple of levels above Bosh, and Masai is similarly above Colangelo.

Scottie is clearly the most talented prospect we’ve had since Vince Carter. If he pans out, he will be perennial All NBA.

[Indeed]

Yeah, but still he was a major ball stopper and took forever to process what he was going to do once he had the ball, which 9 times out of 10 was shoot it. So yeah, as first option he was definitely flawed and he didn't know how to make his teammates better. He is hands down one of the best 3rd options of all time though.

Yup. That's why he excelled in Miami. He was in the role that he always should have been. Complimentary scorer to a legit first option.

Watching him hold the ball for so long, waiting for him to make his iso move was not fun to watch. He had great numbers but that type of offense was never going to translate to legit playoff success. I also found that we relied so heavily on him for iso scoring that his effort on defense got worse as the years went by. I actually like Bosh's game in the early years better than iso Bosh. It was much more balanced.

Him and Siakam are similar in that respect. I much preferred 2nd or 3rd option Pascal that provided elite defense (or close to), than 1st option Pascal that struggled to slide his feet to stay in front of his man and instead used his hands to play defense.

We never got a good 1st option. He accepted the role being 2nd or 3rd, but clearly we cannot win games without his isolation, since none from our team can provide that scoring.

[Ell Curry]

The thing that gives me hope is I remember teams like Portland post-Aldridge and a player like Scottie getting triple doubles and being the 2nd/3rd scoring options would have made them a legit contender. Obviously we don't have a Dame Lillard, but it's probably more likely you find that scoring guard outside the top 3 picks than a difference maker at the frontcourt spots. Just seems like more Mitchell/Haliburton/Booker types go in the 2nd half of the lottery than quality frontcourt guys (only Bam Adebayo really comes to mind, I'd say Jokic and Gobert and Draymond were so low percentage as later picks they're almost not worth discussing), and we look like a 2nd half of the lottery team this coming season.

But yeah, Scottie's shooting looks like it's improving, and when he's at the 4 you should have 3 ballhandlers out there along with the PG and a wing, the requisite 4 shooters (the minimum these days, and I'm assuming we don't magically find a stretch 5), and 2 good rebounders (assuming the center is the other one). He's just a really structurally/mathematically solid player to build around, it's just that we need an elite wing to appear out of the blue like Kawhi did to pair with him, or at least a Middleton/Bane/(prime) Beal/Jaylen Brown type of fringe all-star to get into 45+ win, let's start making aggressive moves territory.

[HiJiNX]

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[mihaic]

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I thought Scottie is a SF at the moment, perhaps even pf at times.

[TDots97]

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I thought Scottie is a SF at the moment, perhaps even pf at times.

It's from last year where he spent a good chunk of the season at SG.

[mdenny]

What's the over/under on scottie Barnes having a better career than Fred Can Vleet?

Season 3 fred broke an nba playoff record shooting 3s against the Bucks. Then he played Steph Curry:
https://youtu.be/OAglmni89Xs?si=WTaXetOoHGmP8ej4

If you don't think season 4 Scotty can take the raptors to the play-in....then whatever you think of Scotty wasn't real to begin with.

[Scase]

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I thought Scottie is a SF at the moment, perhaps even pf at times.

It's from last year where he spent a good chunk of the season at SG.

According to cleaning the glass his minutes were split 0%/17%/45%/35%/3% across the 1/2/3/4/5 positions, calling him a guard is inaccurate in every sense. Even BBref which is way less accurate has it as 0%/31%/33%/33%/2%.

He is pretty objectively a forward. Putting him up against guards that he is on average 3" taller than is undermining his performance IMO.

For clarity if they properly put him in with the forwards group, he'd be 6th just behind Precious.

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[dTox]

What's the over/under on scottie Barnes having a better career than Fred Can Vleet?

Season 3 fred broke an nba playoff record shooting 3s against the Bucks. Then he played Steph Curry:
https://youtu.be/OAglmni89Xs?si=WTaXetOoHGmP8ej4

If you don't think season 4 Scotty can take the raptors to the play-in....then whatever you think of Scotty wasn't real to begin with.

Kobe, Steph, and many other hall of famers failed to make playoffs during their PRIME at one point or another. Scottie is in year 4, he has more than enough time to prove himself.

[Spates]

What's the over/under on scottie Barnes having a better career than Fred Can Vleet?

Season 3 fred broke an nba playoff record shooting 3s against the Bucks. Then he played Steph Curry:
https://youtu.be/OAglmni89Xs?si=WTaXetOoHGmP8ej4

If you don't think season 4 Scotty can take the raptors to the play-in....then whatever you think of Scotty wasn't real to begin with.

Scottie will surpass him in all-star selections this season

[KP730]

What's the over/under on scottie Barnes having a better career than Fred Can Vleet?

Season 3 fred broke an nba playoff record shooting 3s against the Bucks. Then he played Steph Curry:
https://youtu.be/OAglmni89Xs?si=WTaXetOoHGmP8ej4

If you don't think season 4 Scotty can take the raptors to the play-in....then whatever you think of Scotty wasn't real to begin with.

…is this an actual question?

talking as if age plays NO factor in any of this

Freddie at age 22 = undrafted rookie mostly playing in the g league, scoring 2 points off the bench on 35% fg, barely getting nba minutes

Scottie at age 22 = playing in his 1st NBA All Star game - something Freddie couldn’t accomplish until he was 28. How much more will Scottie have accomplished by the time he is 28?

[Scase]

What's the over/under on scottie Barnes having a better career than Fred Can Vleet?

Season 3 fred broke an nba playoff record shooting 3s against the Bucks. Then he played Steph Curry:
https://youtu.be/OAglmni89Xs?si=WTaXetOoHGmP8ej4

If you don't think season 4 Scotty can take the raptors to the play-in....then whatever you think of Scotty wasn't real to begin with.

…is this an actual question?

talking as if age plays NO factor in any of this

Freddie at age 22 = undrafted rookie mostly playing in the g league, scoring 2 points off the bench on 35% fg, barely getting nba minutes

Scottie at age 22 = playing in his 1st NBA All Star game - something Freddie couldn’t accomplish until he was 28. How much more will Scottie have accomplished by the time he is 28?

Season 3 FVV broke an nba...who cares he had a prime Kawhi leonard as the number one option, and KL as the starting guard. Scottie is the number one option.

What an absurd comparison to try and discredit a 22 year old lmao. This board is insane sometimes

[lolwut]

I agree mostly but to be fair to Bosh he was incredibly efficient offensively and we had one of the best offensive teams year after year with him.

The issue was that Colangelo surrounded him with horrible defensive players - guys like Calderon, Bargnani and Turkoglu were just awful defensively.

Our best year was in 2007 when Bosh had solid defensive players like Ford, Parker and Garbo...but sadly Ford and Garbo suffered career ending injuries during that year.

I would have loved with watch prime Lowry and prime Bosh together...would have been an insanely lethal duo.

Yeah, but still he was a major ball stopper and took forever to process what he was going to do once he had the ball, which 9 times out of 10 was shoot it. So yeah, as first option he was definitely flawed and he didn't know how to make his teammates better. He is hands down one of the best 3rd options of all time though.

Everyone with half a scouting brain could see that Bosh was a fake franchise player. Remember that one season where Mike James averaged 20ppg on the Raps? Bosh was like the franchise player equivalent of that.


Colangelo was a short sighted GM who was more of a salesman than a scout.


You can clearly see that Scottie is a couple of levels above Bosh, and Masai is similarly above Colangelo.

Scottie is clearly the most talented prospect we’ve had since Vince Carter. If he pans out, he will be perennial All NBA.

Bosh is definitely not a franchise player. He's a guy that can put up good counting stats on high volume, kind of like Zach Randolph or Julius Randle in that regard.

Too many people are looking at the Bosh era with rose tinted glasses.

[Tha Cynic]

What's the over/under on scottie Barnes having a better career than Fred Can Vleet?

Season 3 fred broke an nba playoff record shooting 3s against the Bucks. Then he played Steph Curry:
https://youtu.be/OAglmni89Xs?si=WTaXetOoHGmP8ej4

If you don't think season 4 Scotty can take the raptors to the play-in....then whatever you think of Scotty wasn't real to begin with.

…is this an actual question?

talking as if age plays NO factor in any of this

Freddie at age 22 = undrafted rookie mostly playing in the g league, scoring 2 points off the bench on 35% fg, barely getting nba minutes

Scottie at age 22 = playing in his 1st NBA All Star game - something Freddie couldn’t accomplish until he was 28. How much more will Scottie have accomplished by the time he is 28?

Season 3 FVV broke an nba...who cares he had a prime Kawhi leonard as the number one option, and KL as the starting guard. Scottie is the number one option.

What an absurd comparison to try and discredit a 22 year old lmao. This board is insane sometimes

Dude is just trolling lol. Always brings up Van Vleet who he knows was a bench player who was unplayable for a couple of the series and got hot in a couple of others. That's why you have role players on teams. They can win you a game or two as support players when when they get hot. Boucher could probably steal a game in a series with his hustle if some team took a chance at him. Heck, we have a guy in Bruce Brown who did that for Denver.

[OakleyDokely]

2021 draft class extensions:

1. Cunningham: 5/225
2. Green: 2/68 (3rd year player option for 37.9)
3. Mobley: 5/225
4. Barnes 5/225
5. Suggs: 4/125 (5th year team option for 24.3)
6. Giddey: No extension
7. Kuminga: No extension
8. Wagner: 5/225

Other notables:

14. Moody: 3/39
15. Kispert: 3/41 (4th year team option for 13.0)
16. Sengun: 4/143 (5th year player option for 42.1)
17. Murphy: 4/112
20. Johnson: 5/150