2024 WNBA Awards Discussion Thread

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Re: 2024 WNBA Awards Discussion Thread 

Post#181 » by Colbinii » Mon Oct 21, 2024 2:08 pm

Player of the Year is clearly the Referees closely followed by Phee, no?
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Re: 2024 WNBA Awards Discussion Thread 

Post#182 » by Doctor MJ » Tue Oct 22, 2024 4:51 am

I've now posted the Voting thread. PM as needed, and let's get into some discussion!

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Re: 2024 WNBA Awards Discussion Thread 

Post#183 » by Doctor MJ » Tue Oct 22, 2024 4:59 am

Quoting b-r's WNBA 2024 Award voting page, as well as the WNBA's official press release for COY & EOY which allows them to say in their own words what they want to say about their weird process for EOY, and give the official results (which aren't on b-r).

I find this info useful in helping me get my thought process started for the less glamorous awards.
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Re: 2024 WNBA Awards Discussion Thread 

Post#184 » by MrDollarBills » Tue Oct 22, 2024 11:25 am

Colbinii wrote:Player of the Year is clearly the Referees closely followed by Phee, no?


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Re: 2024 WNBA Awards Discussion Thread 

Post#185 » by cupcakesnake » Tue Oct 22, 2024 1:15 pm

For me, Phee did enough in the playoffs to leapfrog A'ja.

I had these 2 closer together all season, but felt A'ja separated herself late in the season with the bonkers scoring and the Aces finally winning a ton of games. But with Phee stepping up and becoming the clear cut MVP of the playoffs, while A'ja failed to maintain her regular season pace, I feel comfortable with 2024 being the year of Phee.
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Re: 2024 WNBA Awards Discussion Thread 

Post#186 » by TheWitcher » Tue Oct 22, 2024 3:05 pm

Offensive Player of the Year (OPOY)
Napheesa Collier

As every great legend across every genre of sports does, they raise their level of play when the stakes are at their highest. Even after an MVP-esque regular season, Phee decided to play even better in the playoffs. As if having a 56% TS on 20 PPG isn't impressive enough in the WNBA, she decided to post up 24 PPG on 61% TS. Being 6'1 and having the best defenders on her at all times, and teams literally triple teaming her so she doesn't even catch the ball. I mean most possessions she's getting the Shaq treatment but without the free-throws. :lol:

Defensive Player of the Year (DPOY)
Napheesa Collier

I heard a crazy stat during one of the playoff games (don't quote me on this) that Phee towards the 2nd round of the playoffs had created the most jump balls of any WNBA player in playoffs league history. She's 6'1, but is an amazing shot blocker with quick hands. She constantly disrupts plays for other teams. Shows not only her level of talent, but her bball IQ.

Rookie of the Year (ROY)
Caitlin Clark

Trailblazer, a 1 of 1.

Broke all kinds of assist records as a rookie, set the league on fire with the attention she commands. An absolute sniper with a crazy competitive edge. Very lucky to be around to watch the start of the Caitlin Clark era. There's a lot I want to write about Caitlin that makes her so special even beyond basketball. Her cadence, the way she carries herself, her maturity and intelligence are all traits that are far beyond her young age. I don't know if many would have handled the circus of attention that came with her with so much grace and dignity as young Caitlin Clark did. She's a very inspiring human for not just young ladies, but people of all walks of life.

Sixth Woman of the Year (6WOY)
Maryna Mabrey

This woman is a firecracker. She is tough as nails..... Dangerous perimeter player, as a new fan I was flabbergasted to learn that the Sun were able to just pick her up without giving anything up. That team was dangerously close to making a WNBA finals appearance, they were already giving me early 00's Pistons vibes, and Mabrey just made them so much more dangerous.

Coach of the Year (COY)
Christie Sides

I think she deserves credit for grabbing the bull by the horns and trusting Caitlin Clark. She handled the media circus through the season fairly well. She had a lot of pressure on her, and a lot of the CC "fans" that would've called for her head immediately if the team did not exceed expectations the way it did. I have a couple coaches off the top of my head that I think would've flubbed due to either over-coaching, or just not handling the media well.
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Re: 2024 WNBA Awards Discussion Thread 

Post#187 » by cupcakesnake » Tue Oct 22, 2024 9:39 pm

Ballot consideration for Offensive Player of the Year:
A'ja, Napheesa, Sabrina, Stewie, CC

I think there's a lot of different ways you can go here.
- Napheesa is the only one in this elite offensive tier to really power through the playoffs. Her scoring game was extremely consistent and resilient this year, against everything the defense threw at her. She doesn't have elite playmaking chops, but her scoring pressure was the exact right fit for Minnesota's beautiful-game-style offense as the pressure point that allowed everyone to operate as a spacer and/or attacker.
- A'ja just had arguably the best offensive season of all-time. She stayed pretty good in the playoffs. She is the biggest source of rim pressure in the league and she also has the league's best counter with the pull up. Completely unstoppable.
- CC and Sabrina were the best synergies of scoring gravity and playmaking. CC was the absolute engine of an offense that spent the second half of the season as the best in the league. Sabrina did the night-to-night heavy lifting in New York offense. They played off her.
- Stewie is Stewie. A walking problem for defenses. This wasn't her best offensive season, and I think she made defense her priority (rightly so). She carries so much passive value with her shooting threat and her driving ability at that size. Very solid playmaker.
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Re: 2024 WNBA Awards Discussion Thread 

Post#188 » by cupcakesnake » Wed Oct 23, 2024 6:11 pm

TheWitcher wrote:
Sixth Woman of the Year (6WOY)
Maryna Mabrey

This woman is a firecracker. She is tough as nails..... Dangerous perimeter player, as a new fan I was flabbergasted to learn that the Sun were able to just pick her up without giving anything up. That team was dangerously close to making a WNBA finals appearance, they were already giving me early 00's Pistons vibes, and Mabrey just made them so much more dangerous.


I also want to vote Mabrey, but I see a strong case against considering she spent most of the year as a starter in Chicago. 27 starts this year. She was so freaking good as a bench player for Conneticut. It's rare to see a 6th man transform a team's offense like she did in the playoffs.

Coach of the Year (COY)
Christie Sides

I think she deserves credit for grabbing the bull by the horns and trusting Caitlin Clark. She handled the media circus through the season fairly well. She had a lot of pressure on her, and a lot of the CC "fans" that would've called for her head immediately if the team did not exceed expectations the way it did. I have a couple coaches off the top of my head that I think would've flubbed due to either over-coaching, or just not handling the media well.


No disagreements on Christie Sides, I think that's a good explanation of how she met and overcame the challenges of her job.
My only disagree is any coach having anything on Cheryl Reeve this season. Team of cast offs coached to absolute perfect basketball nirvana. I can get behind other coach's narratives but have a hard time putting any of them even in the conversation with Reeve.
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Re: 2024 WNBA Awards Discussion Thread 

Post#189 » by Doctor MJ » Wed Oct 23, 2024 6:41 pm

cupcakesnake wrote:
TheWitcher wrote:
Sixth Woman of the Year (6WOY)
Maryna Mabrey

This woman is a firecracker. She is tough as nails..... Dangerous perimeter player, as a new fan I was flabbergasted to learn that the Sun were able to just pick her up without giving anything up. That team was dangerously close to making a WNBA finals appearance, they were already giving me early 00's Pistons vibes, and Mabrey just made them so much more dangerous.


I also want to vote Mabrey, but I see a strong case against considering she spent most of the year as a starter in Chicago. 27 starts this year. She was so freaking good as a bench player for Conneticut. It's rare to see a 6th man transform a team's offense like she did in the playoffs.


So, correct me if I'm wrong on this y'all, but I don't believe Mabrey qualifies based on the traditional rule that you have to not-start more than you start.

Yes, in Connecticut she was used as a 6th woman, but that wasn't the bulk of the season.
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Re: 2024 WNBA Awards Discussion Thread 

Post#190 » by cupcakesnake » Wed Oct 23, 2024 6:47 pm

Doctor MJ wrote:
cupcakesnake wrote:
TheWitcher wrote:
Sixth Woman of the Year (6WOY)
Maryna Mabrey

This woman is a firecracker. She is tough as nails..... Dangerous perimeter player, as a new fan I was flabbergasted to learn that the Sun were able to just pick her up without giving anything up. That team was dangerously close to making a WNBA finals appearance, they were already giving me early 00's Pistons vibes, and Mabrey just made them so much more dangerous.


I also want to vote Mabrey, but I see a strong case against considering she spent most of the year as a starter in Chicago. 27 starts this year. She was so freaking good as a bench player for Conneticut. It's rare to see a 6th man transform a team's offense like she did in the playoffs.


So, correct me if I'm wrong on this y'all, but I don't believe Mabrey qualifies based on the traditional rule that you have to not-start more than you start.

Yes, in Connecticut she was used as a 6th woman, but that wasn't the bulk of the season.


I had the same thought, but Mabrey did get actual votes. The W might not have that rule in place.
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Re: 2024 WNBA Awards Discussion Thread 

Post#191 » by Doctor MJ » Wed Oct 23, 2024 8:46 pm

cupcakesnake wrote:
Doctor MJ wrote:
cupcakesnake wrote:
I also want to vote Mabrey, but I see a strong case against considering she spent most of the year as a starter in Chicago. 27 starts this year. She was so freaking good as a bench player for Conneticut. It's rare to see a 6th man transform a team's offense like she did in the playoffs.


So, correct me if I'm wrong on this y'all, but I don't believe Mabrey qualifies based on the traditional rule that you have to not-start more than you start.

Yes, in Connecticut she was used as a 6th woman, but that wasn't the bulk of the season.


I had the same thought, but Mabrey did get actual votes. The W might not have that rule in place.


Ah, yeah, it's weird.

If you look at the official press release, you see both:

1. Them specifying "To be eligible for the award, a player had to play more games as a reserve than as a starter"
and
2. Mabrey being listed as getting 2 votes from voters who clearly weren't paying attention to the rules.

I would imagine that this is a situation where because those 2 votes for Mabrey didn't matter, they let the votes count. This is unwise imho because it makes things more confusing, but for us it's irrelevant:

Our rule is based on item (1) above, with the only clarification coming that if a player ends up with more bench games than starter games adding up both the regular and post season, they're eligible for this award even if they weren't eligible just based on the regular season.

I'm not aware of any situation where this has ended up being a big deal for the PC Board's NBA awards, but it almost was this year in the case of Al Horford who:

1. What always intended to be the Celtics' 6th man and
2. Was better than any 6th man in the league but
3. Couldn't actually take that role often enough because Porzingis spent so much time being injured.

Truly if memory serves, going into the finals we didn't know if Horford would be eligible, only that if he was, he'd get most of our votes. He wasn't so he didn't.
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Re: 2024 WNBA Awards Discussion Thread 

Post#192 » by TheWitcher » Wed Oct 23, 2024 9:50 pm

cupcakesnake wrote:
No disagreements on Christie Sides, I think that's a good explanation of how she met and overcame the challenges of her job.
My only disagree is any coach having anything on Cheryl Reeve this season. Team of cast offs coached to absolute perfect basketball nirvana. I can get behind other coach's narratives but have a hard time putting any of them even in the conversation with Reeve.


I agree with you, my hesitance with Reeve was that I attribute a lot of that success to the amazing chemistry those women have with each other. They know their roles, they enjoy each other as human beings. That kind of thing in professional sports to me is some lightning in a bottle type of scenario. One could make an argument she played a big role in that, but to me Christie was met with an unprecedented challenge that nobody could really give her “advice” on. It was either perform or die, and she performed.
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Re: 2024 WNBA Awards Discussion Thread 

Post#193 » by Green Chile » Wed Oct 23, 2024 10:25 pm

Mabrey's former teammate, Chennedy, was looking like a perfect 6WOY candidate early until the Sky had no choice but to put her in the starting lineup.
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Re: 2024 WNBA Awards Discussion Thread 

Post#194 » by Doctor MJ » Thu Oct 24, 2024 12:38 am

Some thoughts on the awards for the not-quite-best players.

ROY

Not sure if there's much need for discussion here. While ROY debates can get extremely complicated, I'd expect that for most (myself included), what Clark was demonstrating toward the end of the season made her a lock for the #1 spot.

On Angel Reese: I do think she deserved consideration for the #1 spot early in the year and we shouldn't undersell what she accomplished as a rookie. She really does appear to be the greatest rebounder the W's ever seen which is crazy. Further, while I understand the argument that coach Spoon shouldn't have been feeding such an inept shooter, there's no denying that the team did way better with Angel on the court than without.

And yet, I think Leonie Fiebich's emergence in the playoffs should make us seriously consider putting her over Reese. If the Liberty don't have Leonie, I think the Lynx are champions right now.

Now, good to point out that (a) Fiebich wouldn't have made the Sky into champs, so it ain't exactly an apples-to-apples comparison, and (b) Fiebich is 3 years older (24 vs 21), and also (c) she's not anything like a "rookie professional" because she's been playing pro ball in Europe, but a couple things:

1st, I'm not aware of the WNBA giving any indication that someone like Fiebich should be ineligible for the award, so while I think it's fine to be less impressed with Fiebich because of her age and experience, I believe we should all be at least considering her.

2nd, I think there's a critical question to ask as we consider giving a player advantage in ROY because they are younger:

Do we actually think that younger player is likely to be able to do what the older player just showed they can do?

What we saw from Fiebich (imho as always) was the work of someone demonstrating that they knew how to play as an all-around star - with all the well-rounded skills that entails - but could also thrive adjusting her game to be a take-nothing-off-the-table role player when playing with mega-talented teammates.

Do we really think something like that is in the cards for Reese? I'm skeptical, but I'll be really happy if others disagree so long as they think on it and elaborate on what they're seeing.

Of course with Reese if she can become a much better shooter, that changes everything, so if you think this is likely, that's going to shape your thoughts her. I'm not that hopeful on her being able to do this though.

MIP

To set context, here was the ordering in the official WNBA voting:

1. Dijonai Carrington (Con)
2. Dearica Hamby (LA)
3. Bridget Carleton (Min)
4. Chennedy Carter (Chi)
5. Jordan Horston (Sea)
(tie) Sabrina Ionescu (NY)
(tie) Alanna Smith (Min)

On Carrington: Statistically what we're mostly talking about here is that she more than doubled her minutes from last season (MPG increased from 17.2 to 29.6). Doesn't mean she didn't improve, but she definitely feels like someone who got a promotion in prominence to mostly keep doing what she was already doing. This doesn't necessarily affect the strength of her candidacy depending on your criteria, but definitely an important thing to bear in mind for an award like this.

On Hamby, two separate things on my mind:

1st, I'm realizing I have to shift how I think about this award compared to what I do in the NBA. For the NBA, my general rule is that previous all-stars shouldn't be considered for MIP because historically that's been something of an unwritten rule, and I believe the impulse behind it is understandable. Accolades like this exist for the buzz they hope to generate, and so attaching a less prestigious award to a more prestigious one is avoided.

But the problem in the W is that less teams make that the bar for making all-star with respect to how much of a standout your compared to your league, is lower. And so a policy that insists on the letter of the NBA's unwritten rule would very much change the tier of player you want to shine a brighter light on, and if the community of the WNBA would rather not do that, it makes sense and I feel like I just need to adapt.

Hence, even though Hamby was already a 2-time all-star, I'm not using that to throw out her candidacy for my personal ballot.

2nd, so, as folks may know, I do tend to look at +/- stats and while that certainly includes the fancy stuff, I also like the raw data because I think there's some meaning there for us fans.

So I enjoy looking at the raw leader in raw +/- for the season (which I'll talk about when it's relevant) and then, because it's so easy to just flip the list, here are the worst performers of the season:

1. Dearica Hamby (LA) -275
2. Arike Ogunbowale (Dal) -249
3. Rickea Jackson (LA) -242
4. Dana Evans (Chi) -237
5. Jacy Shelden (Dal) -235

Now look, I'm not saying this implies that these were the worst 5 players in the league this past year - we'd expect the worst players to not play enough to rack up a highly negative number.

But what I would say in these situations is that it's challenging to argue that you added significant value when the team was so ineffective when you were on the court.

On Carleton: HUGE emergence as an elite volume 3-point shooter which was absolutely critical to the Lynx coming out of nowhere to nearly win it all. There's probably some team-jelling going on here that's more than just about her individual improvement, but seems like she's clearly a worthy choice.

On Carter: Would be a strong candidate for a "Comeback Player of the Year", but I'm not sure she's improved that much from earlier in her career so much as she finally found a new home that let her do her thing.

Note that the other 3 vote-getters below each only got one vote.

On Horston: I'm honestly not sure what the case for her is exactly.
On Sabrina: Okay c'mon now, she's been All-W twice before this year. Too elite for this award imho.
On Smith: Seems like the big jump happened before the 2023 season and MIP voters saw it then.

If there are others folks want to champion - particularly possibly based on the playoffs, I hope they do! It's easy to miss a candidate in this category.

6WOY

Here I always tend to focus on the players who qualify (primarily not a starter) while playing the most minutes on the best teams, though sometimes things get weird...and it got weird for the W this season, as you'll see below:

NY - Fiebich, Thornton
Min - Hiedeman, Dorka
Con - Mabrey (ineligible), Burton
LV - Clark, Hayes
Sea - Horston, Russell
Ind - Hull, Samuelson

First weirdness is the Sun's top 6th woman not being eligible.

Second weirdness? Tiffany Hayes won the award despite being only the 2nd most used bench player on her own team behind Alysha Clark who only got a single vote. Part of what's going on here is surly Hayes' bucket-getting...but I wonder if part of what's going on here is that voters essentially saw Clark as one of the Aces' main 5 even if she came off the bench, and so didn't really feel like she "fit" the archetype of 6WOY like Hayes did.

I'll say Leonie Fiebich is the clear cut stand out to me in the wake of the playoffs...but depending on your personal philosophy, it might actually hurt her case. If you only credit "Sixths" with what they do in games where they come off the bench, then Leonie the Playoff Star(ter) is irrelevant. I respect that viewpoint, and I don't want to give the award to someone who potentially wasn't actually that good as a bench player, but when you gradually earn a starting spot over a living legend which made it hard for you to really get all-star recognition despite clearly demonstrating that level over the course of things, I can't help but want to honor you.

Finally, I'd be remiss if I didn't mention the Mystics' Shatori Walker-Kimbrough because she came in 3rd in the voting behind Hayes & Fiebich...but I can't really make a case for her.
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Re: 2024 WNBA Awards Discussion Thread 

Post#195 » by Doctor MJ » Thu Oct 24, 2024 5:30 am

Okay, on the masterminds off-the court, COY & EOY:

I have to combine them to some degree because Cheryl Reeve is a coach-GM still in this day and age where that's considered a recipe for disaster, she just won both the official COY & official EOY, and, well, I doubt I'll end up voting against her in either award.

Let me start in my analysis here: I'm as impressed with her coaching performance over the Maya Moore dynasty as I think most were. The dynasty on the whole was not pace and not space...but relied the whole time on Moore, who was an extreme motor athlete (which lends itself to pace), and about the space?

Here's the 3-point leaderboard for the Lynx during Moore's 8 year career:

1. Maya Moore 530
2. Seimone Augustus 158
3. Candice Wiggins 107
4. Renee Montgovery 79
5. Lindsay Whalen 68

If you're keeping tabs there, that means Moore's total dwarfs the combined total of her 4 closest teammates, despite entering the WNBA 7 years after Seven Seconds or Less hit the NBA in Phoenix.

I think people tend to want to believe that if you won a title - and especially if you won a lot of titles - that what you were doing was the right strategic call, but rationally we know this isn't true, and so I'll just say it:

I think the Lynx could have been considerably more dominant than they already were if they just looked to surround Moore with pace & space players. Reeve's failing to do that in the 2010s doesn't put her behind her WNBA coaching peers, so in that sense it wasn't a competitive disadvantage, but I think the strategy was there for her to jump on board with and she didn't do it.

And then she continued to never really leave the old-school basketball mindset until Sylvia Fowles retired in 2022.

But oh man, look at her team now in 2024!

The only players who were on the team in both 2023 & 2024:

Napheesa Collier (acq. 2019)
Bridget Carleton (2019)
Kayla McBride (2021)
Diamond Miller (2023)
Dorka Juhasz (2023)

Reeve jettisoned most of her roster between last year and this, and the result was a +10.1 SRS improvement with an absolutely beautiful form of basketball that - while not an outlier - is at least shooting considerably more 3's than before.

And let's note that this all worked astonishingly well building around Collier, who really doesn't play like anyone else in the league. Reeve's was bold as hell based on a specific vision to build around someone unusual, and damn if she didn't seem to nail both the strategy, the personnel, and the actual coaching-up of the team to enable that chemistry.

I honestly think this might be the most impressive year in Reeve's career, and I think it really cements her as the WNBA's coaching GOAT.

Okay, moving on to talk about other team's coaches & execs:

Champion New York has coach Sandy Brondello and exec Jonathan Kolb. Kolb won EOY in 2023 for possibly the greatest off-season season since the Houston Comets accidentally acquired an overwhelming superteam in 1997, and the big new addition to the club this year (Fiebich) was acquired during that 2023 season too. This then to say that while Kolb is sitting pretty right now, it's hard for me to get excited about him as an EOY candidate for just this season.

What about Brondello? Does someone really deserve COY for being the coach of the champion when that champion has by far the most talent among all contenders? Well, some at least. The team is clearly better than it was a year ago when I think it was correctly diagnosed as a bunch of individual talents who hadn't really figured out how to adapt together when pushed out of their comfort zone. And while I'll give a ton of credit to Stewie & co on the floor for this, a coach can ruin those efforts if she's trying to make things work the wrong way.

People have been critical of Brondello's tendency to not challenge calls and not call timeouts often enough, and I can't say I think they're wrong - she's got some of that Phil Jackson - Steve Kerr thing where she doesn't seem worried about absolutely maxing out the performance in one particular game, which really doesn't age well when everything comes down to one overtime.

On the other hand, the way she made adjustments with the rise of players like Fiebich & Sabally, seemed masterful. Maybe it's luck, but I'm reluctant to assume it's all luck.

For the Connecticut Sun, the acquisition of Marbrey was absolutely huge, and makes Darius Taylor a serious contender for EOY. As for coach Stephanie White, honestly I just continue to be impressed that the Sun keep being as competitive as they are when they have such a player with a clear weakness - AT, shooting - at the fulcrum. I feel like they've been punching above their weight ever since Jonquel left, and while part of that is inherent fit, that is also when White come to Connecticut.

The next team by performance is the Aces, but honestly it doesn't seem like a year at all to celebrate their off-court performance when everything - including morale - seemed to take a real step backward.

Seattle's interesting because it didn't really feel like a successful year to me, but by all reasonable standards it was. They acquired 2 big names (Nneka & Skylar), and saw their SRS improve by 9.0 to earn a highly winning record. And so I feel like coach Noelle Quinn and exec Talia Rhea deserve some accolade consideration here, even if I can't help but think that this was a team for whom success really means at least winning a playoff series.

For the Indiana Fever, I don't mind coach Christie Sides and exec Lin Dunn getting praise for the positive patience they seem to be exuding as Clark figures out the W, and they figure out what works best with Clark at this level. But I also don't think I'd be utterly dying to hire either Sides or Dunn based on their 2024 performance. They've earned the right to keep their leadership positions, but it feels early to let either take a victory lap.
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Re: 2024 WNBA Awards Discussion Thread 

Post#196 » by MrDollarBills » Thu Oct 24, 2024 4:47 pm

I don't have a vote, but I think it's kinda weird that Mabrey is up for 6th person when she was a starter for a playoff team? That would be like saying Leo Fiebich should be eligible.

To my voting friends, I cannot send you bribes to vote for Liberty players, but you will have my eternal admiration if you do :)
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Re: 2024 WNBA Awards Discussion Thread 

Post#197 » by Doctor MJ » Thu Oct 24, 2024 5:41 pm

MrDollarBills wrote:I don't have a vote, but I think it's kinda weird that Mabrey is up for 6th person when she was a starter for a playoff team? That would be like saying Leo Fiebich should be eligible.

To my voting friends, I cannot send you bribes to vote for Liberty players, but you will have my eternal admiration if you do :)


To be clear:

I'm still looking for people who want to vote, and I hope you join us MDB! This is a project for this whole board!
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Re: 2024 WNBA Awards Discussion Thread 

Post#198 » by MrDollarBills » Thu Oct 24, 2024 7:44 pm

Doctor MJ wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:I don't have a vote, but I think it's kinda weird that Mabrey is up for 6th person when she was a starter for a playoff team? That would be like saying Leo Fiebich should be eligible.

To my voting friends, I cannot send you bribes to vote for Liberty players, but you will have my eternal admiration if you do :)


To be clear:

I'm still looking for people who want to vote, and I hope you join us MDB! This is a project for this whole board!


I kinda want to sit this one out and see how the rest of the board votes.

Plus I am on a super bias Liberty high right now. My vote will not be objective :lol:

Next year for sure
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C: J. Valanciunas/C. Castleton
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SG: T. Hardaway Jr./C. Williams
PG: C. Payne/J. Springer
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Re: 2024 WNBA Awards Discussion Thread 

Post#199 » by Doctor MJ » Fri Oct 25, 2024 5:27 am

So, I don't think people need to do as much research, in some ways, for the candidates for POY/OPOY/DPOY, because these are the players dominating the league, and so we can't help but pay attention to them all season long.

I will put forward some +/- data though, because I know I tend to note that data considerably more than most. I'll say up front that you don't have to care about it at all, and it is flawed, particularly when we're limited in the availability of more sophisticated metrics which help reduce the noise.

But I like it not because of what it definitively says about player value, but because it gives us questions to ask. Basically, if the data seems to say one thing, it worth trying to explain what that is.

Without further ado:

Raw +/- Leaderboard for the regular season (per b-r):

1. Jonquel Jones (NY) +317
2. Napheesa Collier (Min) +313
3. Breanna Stewart (NY) +299
4. Kayla McBride (Min) +298
5. Sabrina Ionescu (NY) +281

Placement of others who finished in the Top 10 of MVP voting:

Nneka Ogwumike (Sea) +228
Alyssa Thomas (Con) +194
A'ja Wilson (LV) +175
Caitlin Clark (Ind) -65
Kahleah Copper (Phx) -116
Arike Ogunbowale (Dal) -249

Leaderboard for regular & post season combined:

1. Jonquel Jones (NY) +376
2. Leonie Fiebich (NY) +373
3. Breanna Stewart (NY) +355
4. Sabrina Ionescu (NY) +353
5. Napheesa Collier (Min) +348

Regular Season On/Off data according to wnba.com, Big 3 Minute players:

Player Offensive Defensive Net:
(Liberty)
Stewie +8.9 +6.4 +2.4
Sabrina +10.6 +10.1 +0.4
Jonquel +7.1 +1.9 +5.2

(Lynx)
McBride +12.9 -5.4 +18.2
Napheesa +13.8 -6.9 +20.6
Carleton +8.2 -1.9 +10.1

(Sun)
Alyssa +2.7 +5.7 -3.1
Bonner +5.9 -2.8 +8.7
Carrington -5.5 +5.5 -11.0

(Aces)
A'ja -1.0 +3.1 -4.1
Plum +5.8 +0.7 +5.2
Young +0.5 +2.7 -2.3

(Storm)
Skylar +7.9 -5.0 +12.9
Loyd +6.9 -3.4 +10.2
Nneka +14.1 +1.7 +12.4

(Fever)
Clark +9.5 +3.5 +5.9
Mitchell +8.5 +4.9 +3.6
Boston +8.7 +1.7 +6.9

(Mercury)
Cloud +0.4 -1.1 +1.5
Copper +6.7 +11.4 -4.6
Sophie +4.5 -1.5 +6.0

(Dream)
Allisha +12.8 -0.3 13.0
Charles +13.6 -1.9 +15.5
Rhyne +10.1 -2.4 12.5

Top Regular Season On-Court Offensive Rating (min. 28 MPG, 30 GP):

1. Sabrina Ionescu (NY) 108.5
2. Breanna Stewart (NY)108.2
3. Jonquel Jones (NY) 107.8
4. Kelsey Plum (LV) 106.0
5. Napheesa Collier (Min) 105.5

Other Top 10 MVP vote getters:

A'ja Wilson (LV) 105.3
Nneka Ogwumike (Sea) 104.9
Caitlin Clark (Ind) 104.2
Arike Ogunbowale (Dal) 103.5
Alyssa Thomas (Con) 102.1
Kahleah Copper (Pho) 101.8

The same for On-Court Defensive Rating:

1. Napheesa Collier (Min) 92.2
2. DeWanna Bonner (Con) 92.5
3. Kayla McBride (Min) 92.5
4. Bridget Carleton (Min) 93.1
5. Tyasha Harris (Con) 93.7

And other Top 10 MVP:

Jonquel Jones (NY) 94.4
Alyssa Thomas (Con) 94.7
Breanna Stewart (NY) 95.6
Nneka Ogwumike (Sea) 96.6
Sabrina Ionescu (NY) 96.6
A'ja Wilson (LV) 99.0
Caitlin Clark (Ind) 106.6
Kahleah Copper (Phx) 107.1
Arike Ogunbowale (Dal) 111.6
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Re: 2024 WNBA Awards Discussion Thread 

Post#200 » by MrDollarBills » Fri Oct 25, 2024 10:28 am

Am I looking at these numbers for Phee correctly? If so she's far and away the best player in the league
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2025-2026 Indiana Pacers

C: J. Valanciunas/C. Castleton
PF: K. Kuzma/J. Robinson-Earl
SF: T. Evbuomwan/J. Howard
SG: T. Hardaway Jr./C. Williams
PG: C. Payne/J. Springer

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