Pre-season

[PDXKnight]

Clingan!

[Village Idiot]

Toumani, Avdija and Clingan make a real tough defensive trio. They were the reason IMO the game was over so early.

Indeed. This staring five of Simons, Avdija, Camara, Grant and Clingan is really versatile and likeable.

[PDXKnight]

Toumani, Avdija and Clingan make a real tough defensive trio. They were the reason IMO the game was over so early.

Indeed. This staring five of Simons, Avdija, Camara, Grant and Clingan is really versatile and likeable.

Indeed. But I fear it'll win too many games

[dckingsfan]

Toumani, Avdija and Clingan make a real tough defensive trio. They were the reason IMO the game was over so early.

Funny how when you get one player that commits to the defensive end it changes the culture. When you get two or three... well then.

Question: do you think that Billups will commit to the defensive end of the court?

Guess: He will play Scoot, Sharpe and Simons together (I guess this is a duh). Ayton will get lots of run vs. Clingan (I guess this is a duh also). Grant will get the most minutes at forward (sans an injury). That will make for a pretty awful defensive team.

So don't worry, we should still be good for the 2025 tankathon.

[zzaj]

Toumani, Avdija and Clingan make a real tough defensive trio. They were the reason IMO the game was over so early.

Funny how when you get one player that commits to the defensive end it changes the culture. When you get two or three... well then.

Question: do you think that Billups will commit to the defensive end of the court?

Guess: He will play Scoot, Sharpe and Simons together (I guess this is a duh). Ayton will get lots of run vs. Clingan (I guess this is a duh also). Grant will get the most minutes at forward (sans an injury). That will make for a pretty awful defensive team.

So don't worry, we should still be good for the 2025 tankathon.

Personally, I haven't actually had too much of an issue with Billups' defensive stuff...does it over commit? Yeah. But with a young team, I'd rather that then the opposite--too passive.

With Deni, Camara, Rupert, Murray, and Clingan all providing pretty good to very good defense you can squint and start to see the makings of a team identity (gasp). In games where the refs call a tight game the Blazers are going to get blown out, however.

Offensively is where I see Billups' challenge. Part of that is the Blazers will likely be the worst shooting team in the NBA again, and of course the team is still very young overall. But the Xs and Os are pretty brutal with Chauncey. At least in preseason it looks like Deni is going to be a godsend for Scoot...providing a relief valve for ball handling and covering up some of his deficiencies.

[Walton1one]

This is why POR should trade Simons\Grant sooner rather than later, the younger guys, the actual “core” players are good enough to play now

Scoot - Sharpe - Camara - Avdija - Clingan

That line up is going to win some games, don’t need Simons\Grant to push this team to more meaningless wins that screw up their chances in 2025 draft

As much as I like these players, I am not sure ANY of them are the franchise player (top 30 type player) that this team needs. Can’t win meaningfully (aka playoff contender) without one. I think all of them could be the backbone of a playoff team, but they need their Alpha, and that is not on this roster right now.

So trade the rest of the vets, stockpile young players \picks to either draft such a player or trade for one, but winning meaningless games b/c of those vets is counterproductive to the bigger picture.

Ayton is fine for now b/c Clingan isn’t ready physically yet for more than 20min or so s game

Williams needs to play a few games so they can offload him for something at/before the trade deadline

Same with Thybulle, though I doubt he is worth much

The rest of the players (Murray\Rupert\Walker\Reath\Banton) are inconsequential, just taking up space and preventing POR from using their roster\cap space to acquire draft capital from teams looking to shed salary\roster spots, just stupid and short sighted by Cronin

Also, that young starting 5 is much more fun to watch

[dckingsfan]

This is why POR should trade Simons\Grant\Williams sooner rather than later, the younger guys, the actual “core” players are good enough to play now.

Agreed and adding Williams. But.... I think that this is easier said than done in this current trade market.

Maybe at the trade deadline or in-season due to injuries to a team that is trying to stay competitive. I also worry about the contracts we will need to take back. Ayton and Williams would be off the books after next season.

I also think many fans will be disappointed to see that the trades only yield SRPs or highly protected FRPs that end up as SRPs.

Hence why I think we will see Scoot, Sharpe and Simons together in the backcourt, lots of Grant and Ayton.

I do think that Simons (as you have it) should be the first to be moved. Ayton second. The reason is we don't want those two to get ridiculous contracts moving forward.

[Walton1one]

I'd like to add this (rant) here, since this is the pre-season thread, and now that we are starting to see how the 2024 draft class has performed in summer league\pre-season, how absolutely idiotic it was for POR to trade their 2nd round pick away for cash. and yes, it clearly pissed me off and yet not one media member has questioned Joe on it, pathetic.

Right off the bat, selling 2nd round picks for cash (twice!) is a hallmark of a Mickey Mouse run organization, that cares more about money than improving the team on the court. The fact that MUTLIPLE playoff-contending teams saw the value of drafting players in the 2nd round should be damming enough. That POR apparently, justifies not utilizing those picks b\c they have Banton\Reath or Taze Moore (25) & Justin Minaya (25) on 2-way contracts, would be laughable if it wasn't so depressing.

OKC, only favored to win the NBA title next year, yet they thought Ajay Mitchell could help them, weird, what a dumb franchise. He took a 2-way, but we were told players would not do that!

MIA, took Pelle Larsson (also signed Keshad Johnson as a 2-way), of course what does MIA know about developing players, am I right?

SA, another poorly run franchise, took Harrison Ingram (2-way) & traded for Juan Nunez, as a draft & stash, I mean why would POR do that, they don't need more talent, isn't that what Joe said?

NYK, another playoff contender, they took (3!) 2nd round players, traded for Kolek (from POR, surely he would not have been useful on this team anyway), McCullar & Hukporti (to reiterate POR mouthpieces, players wouldn't accept 2-way deals, uh-huh, sure, (13) 2nd rounders are on 2-way's and (3) are overseas stashes)

PHX, another playoff team, took Ighodaro, whom POR traded away b\c you know cash is more valuable

I could go on & on... but this is just another symptom of a poorly run franchise, sloppily managed, with apparently zero vision or knowledge of how to build a successful roster (here is a hint, look what OKC & SA have done).

So yeah fill those 2-way contracts with players like Moore\Minaya that have no business on an NBA roster, they are just 2-way's right, who cares? OKC\SA\MIA, they seem to care, but not POR. nope.

Let's prioritize keeping bench scrubs like Banton & Reath or hold onto veterans that have no business on this team like Thybulle, because we don't need more young players\potential talent anyway, right?

and before some go, Reath can play! Ask yourself where Reath is on the depth chart of this roster if Williams is healthy? We all know the answer, 4th string, yeah, 4th string centers are not worth a lot, most other fans don't even think he is worth a 2nd round pick. The fact that he played and showed a little while POR had tank mode engaged and was losing by 60, doesn't mean he is a rotation-level player on a good team.

and Banton, please, note above and multiply by a factor of 10, jacking up shots while your team is getting obliterated and setting NBA records for futility in 3pt shooting (0-15) does not make you an intriguing player. BOS liked him so much they offloaded him for a fake 2nd round pick that will never convey, a chucker masquerading as a PG\point forward, but ask yourselves this, if he was cut tomorrow, would ANY playoff team pick him up and use him in their rotation? Of course not.

This team refuses to offload vets when they know they should\need to

They keep fringe level NBA players on the back end of their roster, instead of utlizing those roster spots\cap space to maximize future capital (ie draft picks, just look what CHA & SA have done this year, 2 teams BTW better than POR is)

and continue to completely mismanage their 2-way contracts by using them on 25/26yr old non-NBA level players instead of younger players with MORE potential who just need more seasoning\development time. Is that what Moore\Minaya need, just a few more years so they can be ready at 28-29? Seriously...

Rant over, just entirely frustrated with the mgmt of POR, sad to see as a lifelong POR fan. Can't pick a lane, embracing mediocrity and totally mismanaging their roster and war chest. Now I feel better

[m0ng0]

God you people are insufferable, Scoot can't beat out a sad sh*rty sg masquerading as a pg.

[Walton1one]

Then why even draft him? Maybe they should just let Simons lead us to the promised land, lol.

What is Insufferable is embracing mediocrity instead of trying to win championships.

I must’ve missed the play in/playoff/championships that Simons has led this team too, Clearly he is worth starting though right? I mean he’s taking us places. After all, he was a total stud when he was 20, unlike Scoot..,,

[m0ng0]

Yeah 22/5/3 is terrible for a pg playing sg

[BlazersBroncos]

Yeah 22/5/3 is terrible for a pg playing sg

Numbers dont tell the whole story.

Would you want to build around Tyler Herro? Jordan Clarkson?

Thats who Simons is.

[zzaj]

I will say this...

If the Blazers roll out a starting lineup of:

Ant
Camara
Deni
Grant
Ayton

...and I expect they will...this is borderline the kind of lineup that will mask some of Ant's shortcomings. 1, he's paired with a very good defender with size in the backcourt. 2, he has a good secondary facilitator to take pressure off of ballhandling duties. I read somewhere that Ant faced more possessions of double teams than any other player last year...and I can see why. Get the ball out of his hands and who is going to score?

EDIT: all that to be said. I think the Blazers are waiting a bit longer to see what they have with Scoot...I expect Simons goes nowhere until they know. Grant is the player I expect to be traded now, with Deni on the team. That allows Camara to play SF and assuming Sharpe comes back, the SG will be filled by him. As for Timelord...impossible to say. He's got to be healthy for anything to happen.

And Walton1, I agree with you about the second round picks. That makes no sense to me either. Especially this last year.

I disagree somewhat on Reath and Banton, though. Reath does one thing decently well as a Center and that's shoot 3s. That's a pretty rare thing for 3rd/4th string centers. Blazers need all the shooting and spacing they can manage.

Banton is certainly a chucker, but he's a willing passer and he pressures the rim in a way that is useful on this roster. I view him as a 6'8" 24 year old Jamal Crawford-lite. Totally fine to keep around on a tanking team. Now do I wish the Blazers would have had drafted a Jaylen Wells, or a Cam Christie, or a Harrison Ingram in that role, instead of selling that second rounder? 10000.1%.

[Wizenheimer]

God you people are insufferable, .

put the mirror down

[Walton1one]

Yeah 22/5/3 is terrible for a pg playing sg

Has Simons led this team to ANYTHING? Seriously?

These are empty stats, big deal he put up 22\5\3 LY on a terrible 21-win team.

Simons played 46 games LY, 22 of those games they lost by DOUBLE digits (10pts+), including some doozies:

lost by 29/36/62!!/23/24/37/22

They won 11 of the games he played in, a stellar 24% win %. I wonder what that averages out to in an 82 game season? (would you look at that 20 wins)

What greatness is he leading POR to exactly? He isn't a 20/21/22yr old kid either BTW

Hey, you know Dalano Banton averaged 17\5\4 LY, maybe they should give him a $30mil contract?

Do you know what Simons averaged when HE was 20yrs old (the age Scoot is THIS year)? 3.8ppg.

He averaged 8.3ppg when he was 21 & 7.8ppg when he was 22. They should have traded him after that horrendous 2nd year, when he played 21min/game and averaged a paltry 8.3ppg on 39.9% FG% (33% from 3pt), what a bust.

Of note, when Simons exploded in his 4th year he averaged 29.5min\game, imagine that, playing a young player heavy minutes gave him the chance to improve. What a concept!

Too bad Scoot won't see minutes like that this year, stuck behind Simons as a b\u PG

[dckingsfan]

I will say this...

If the Blazers roll out a starting lineup of:

Ant
Camara
Deni
Grant
Ayton

...and I expect they will...this is borderline the kind of lineup that will mask some of Ant's shortcomings. 1, he's paired with a very good defender with size in the backcourt. 2, he has a good secondary facilitator to take pressure off of ballhandling duties. I read somewhere that Ant faced more possessions of double teams than any other player last year...and I can see why. Get the ball out of his hands and who is going to score?

EDIT: all that to be said. I think the Blazers are waiting a bit longer to see what they have with Scoot...I expect Simons goes nowhere until they know. Grant is the player I expect to be traded now, with Deni on the team. That allows Camara to play SF and assuming Sharpe comes back, the SG will be filled by him. As for Timelord...impossible to say. He's got to be healthy for anything to happen.

And Walton1, I agree with you about the second round picks. That makes no sense to me either. Especially this last year.

I disagree somewhat on Reath and Banton, though. Reath does one thing decently well as a Center and that's shoot 3s. That's a pretty rare thing for 3rd/4th string centers. Blazers need all the shooting and spacing they can manage.

Banton is certainly a chucker, but he's a willing passer and he pressures the rim in a way that is useful on this roster. I view him as a 6'8" 24 year old Jamal Crawford-lite. Totally fine to keep around on a tanking team. Now do I wish the Blazers would have had drafted a Jaylen Wells, or a Cam Christie, or a Harrison Ingram in that role, instead of selling that second rounder? 10000.1%.

Great post. But I don't see that lineup happening all that often. I think that Camera's minutes get replaced by Henderson/Sharp?

Also, I think Grant has been in play but teams don't want that contract? And certainly, if they take on said contract they don't want to give up trade assets unless they are moving bad contracts back to us?

[zzaj]

I will say this...

If the Blazers roll out a starting lineup of:

Ant
Camara
Deni
Grant
Ayton

...and I expect they will...this is borderline the kind of lineup that will mask some of Ant's shortcomings. 1, he's paired with a very good defender with size in the backcourt. 2, he has a good secondary facilitator to take pressure off of ballhandling duties. I read somewhere that Ant faced more possessions of double teams than any other player last year...and I can see why. Get the ball out of his hands and who is going to score?

EDIT: all that to be said. I think the Blazers are waiting a bit longer to see what they have with Scoot...I expect Simons goes nowhere until they know. Grant is the player I expect to be traded now, with Deni on the team. That allows Camara to play SF and assuming Sharpe comes back, the SG will be filled by him. As for Timelord...impossible to say. He's got to be healthy for anything to happen.

And Walton1, I agree with you about the second round picks. That makes no sense to me either. Especially this last year.

I disagree somewhat on Reath and Banton, though. Reath does one thing decently well as a Center and that's shoot 3s. That's a pretty rare thing for 3rd/4th string centers. Blazers need all the shooting and spacing they can manage.

Banton is certainly a chucker, but he's a willing passer and he pressures the rim in a way that is useful on this roster. I view him as a 6'8" 24 year old Jamal Crawford-lite. Totally fine to keep around on a tanking team. Now do I wish the Blazers would have had drafted a Jaylen Wells, or a Cam Christie, or a Harrison Ingram in that role, instead of selling that second rounder? 10000.1%.

Also, I think Grant has been in play but teams don't want that contract? And certainly, if they take on said contract they don't want to give up trade assets unless they are moving bad contracts back to us?

Well the Blazers saw the value of that lineup in the preseason games vs. Utah and Sac...with Clingan subbed in for the Utah game. Now, granted--preseason...

Sharpe being healthy definitely changes things for Camara, but Sharpe hasn't really shown an ability to stay healthy (fingers crossed on that), and shoulder labrums are not a good injury for NBA players. They can be nagging...

At the least I think Camara has shown he can handle backup SG/SF minutes. Matisse probably just found himself without a job. Camara is the better on-ball defender and offers more size and length at the position.

All that being said, I still expect the first 25 games or so to be pretty brutal for the Blazers. Maybe 3 or 4 wins is what I'm predicting.
Great post. But I don't see that lineup happening all that often. I think that Camera's minutes get replaced by Henderson/Sharp?

[dckingsfan]

I will say this...

If the Blazers roll out a starting lineup of:

Ant
Camara
Deni
Grant
Ayton

...and I expect they will...this is borderline the kind of lineup that will mask some of Ant's shortcomings. 1, he's paired with a very good defender with size in the backcourt. 2, he has a good secondary facilitator to take pressure off of ballhandling duties. I read somewhere that Ant faced more possessions of double teams than any other player last year...and I can see why. Get the ball out of his hands and who is going to score?

EDIT: all that to be said. I think the Blazers are waiting a bit longer to see what they have with Scoot...I expect Simons goes nowhere until they know. Grant is the player I expect to be traded now, with Deni on the team. That allows Camara to play SF and assuming Sharpe comes back, the SG will be filled by him. As for Timelord...impossible to say. He's got to be healthy for anything to happen.

And Walton1, I agree with you about the second round picks. That makes no sense to me either. Especially this last year.

I disagree somewhat on Reath and Banton, though. Reath does one thing decently well as a Center and that's shoot 3s. That's a pretty rare thing for 3rd/4th string centers. Blazers need all the shooting and spacing they can manage.

Banton is certainly a chucker, but he's a willing passer and he pressures the rim in a way that is useful on this roster. I view him as a 6'8" 24 year old Jamal Crawford-lite. Totally fine to keep around on a tanking team. Now do I wish the Blazers would have had drafted a Jaylen Wells, or a Cam Christie, or a Harrison Ingram in that role, instead of selling that second rounder? 10000.1%.

Great post. But I don't see that lineup happening all that often. I think that Camera's minutes get replaced by Henderson/Sharp?

Also, I think Grant has been in play but teams don't want that contract? And certainly, if they take on said contract they don't want to give up trade assets unless they are moving bad contracts back to us?

Well the Blazers saw the value of that lineup in the preseason games vs. Utah and Sac...with Clingan subbed in for the Utah game. Now, granted--preseason...

Sharpe being healthy definitely changes things for Camara, but Sharpe hasn't really shown an ability to stay healthy (fingers crossed on that), and shoulder labrums are not a good injury for NBA players. They can be nagging...

At the least I think Camara has shown he can handle backup SG/SF minutes. Matisse probably just found himself without a job. Camara is the better on-ball defender and offers more size and length at the position.

All that being said, I still expect the first 25 games or so to be pretty brutal for the Blazers. Maybe 3 or 4 wins is what I'm predicting.

Yeah, I think you nailed it on Camara - but this is Billups

So, I think you will see him more at the SF...

[Wizenheimer]

Great post. But I don't see that lineup happening all that often. I think that Camera's minutes get replaced by Henderson/Sharp?

Also, I think Grant has been in play but teams don't want that contract? And certainly, if they take on said contract they don't want to give up trade assets unless they are moving bad contracts back to us?

Well the Blazers saw the value of that lineup in the preseason games vs. Utah and Sac...with Clingan subbed in for the Utah game. Now, granted--preseason...

Sharpe being healthy definitely changes things for Camara, but Sharpe hasn't really shown an ability to stay healthy (fingers crossed on that), and shoulder labrums are not a good injury for NBA players. They can be nagging...

At the least I think Camara has shown he can handle backup SG/SF minutes. Matisse probably just found himself without a job. Camara is the better on-ball defender and offers more size and length at the position.

All that being said, I still expect the first 25 games or so to be pretty brutal for the Blazers. Maybe 3 or 4 wins is what I'm predicting.

Yeah, I think you nailed it on Camara - but this is Billups

So, I think you will see him more at the SF...

hard to say what Billups is going to do

Cronin refused to give Billups and extension and IIRC, that means the 5th year of the contract is not guaranteed. Billups may be in a 'what-do-I-have-to-lose' mode and willing to try all sorts of experiments

unfortunately I think the one bridge that needs to be crossed: Simons coming off the bench....is a bridge too far, even for Billups

[dckingsfan]

Well the Blazers saw the value of that lineup in the preseason games vs. Utah and Sac...with Clingan subbed in for the Utah game. Now, granted--preseason...

Sharpe being healthy definitely changes things for Camara, but Sharpe hasn't really shown an ability to stay healthy (fingers crossed on that), and shoulder labrums are not a good injury for NBA players. They can be nagging...

At the least I think Camara has shown he can handle backup SG/SF minutes. Matisse probably just found himself without a job. Camara is the better on-ball defender and offers more size and length at the position.

All that being said, I still expect the first 25 games or so to be pretty brutal for the Blazers. Maybe 3 or 4 wins is what I'm predicting.

Yeah, I think you nailed it on Camara - but this is Billups

So, I think you will see him more at the SF...

hard to say what Billups is going to do

Cronin refused to give Billups and extension and IIRC, that means the 5th year of the contract is not guaranteed. Billups may be in a 'what-do-I-have-to-lose' mode and willing to try all sorts of experiments

unfortunately I think the one bridge that needs to be crossed: Simons coming off the bench....is a bridge too far, even for Billups

I hadn't considered that.

I personally think that the bridge that needs to be crossed is just playing only one of Sharpe, Scoot or Simons at a time. Like you say, this is also probably a bridge to far.

If Billups was paying attention, he should have seen that playing 3 forwards was doing amazing things for the defense which was creating offense. But, Billups be Billups so...