Top 15 Centers (Embiid and Jokic)

[FlyingArrow]

From the 2023 top 100 project, these were the top 15 centers:

KAJ
Russell
Hakeem
Wilt
Shaq
Mikan
DRobinson
Moses Malone
Jokic (#26)
Ewing
Dwight Howard
Embiid
Alonzo Mourning
Willis Reed
Dikembe Mutombo

(Tim Duncan and Anthony Davis are not included here. I've counted them as PF.)

I hadn't looked the centers rankings until now, but a few things surprised me. My tiers:

Tier 1 (in the GOAT debate):
KAJ, Russell, Wilt

Tier 2:
Hakeem, Jokic, Shaq

Tier 3:
Mikan, DRobinson, Moses, Ewing, Embiid

Tier 4:
Dwight, Zo, Willis Reed, Dikembe, and probably 5 or 6 others.

I went to start this thread because I was thinking, "Is Embiid a top 10 all-time center?" I think he has a case, but he'd be battling for that last slot in the top 10. Then, looking at the Top 100 rankings I was really surprised at how low Jokic was. I was wondering if he might crack the top 10 overall, and he's barely in the top 10 for centers on that list.

[AEnigma]

You were wondering whether Jokic, who has appeared in six postseasons, won one title, and played 24 thousand minutes combined, would crack the top ten?

[FlyingArrow]

You were wondering whether Jokic, who has appeared in six postseasons, won one title, and played 24 thousand minutes combined, would crack the top ten?

Yes. The guy with 3 MVPs, potentially the best passer of all time, and the all-time leader in several advanced metrics (PER, Box Plus-Minus, WS48). Not saying he's a shoo-in, but #10 seems closer to right than #26. I have him ahead of Mikan, DRob, and Moses.

[AEnigma]

There is more to basketball than what three box score number generators on basketball-reference say, two of which are around twenty years old now. To be clear though, after this 2024 season, he is 27th in combined VORP (cutting off every pre-1974 season) and 60th in combined win shares. Looks like listing him #26 after his 2023 season was extremely generous if anything.

And Moses has three MVPs too. Mikan would likely have three or four as well if the award had been around for his entire basketball career.

[trelos6]

Career value

Kareem
Russell
Shaq
Hakeem
Duncan (if you want to call him a C)
Wilt
D Robinson
Mikan

JOKIC (8 or 9th depending on Duncan)

Moses
Dwight
Ewing
Artis

EMBIID (just inside top 15)
Wallace
Mutombo

[mikejames23]

RealGM got in a mood and ranked him at #55 all time. He regularly posts up GOAT numbers, but his playoff runs have some suspect in them.

On center lists he's worse than AD or Dwight, but not by a lot. He's better than Willis Reed, Pau Gasol, Ben Wallace or Deke. He's not in Moses or Ewing's league.

Jokic vs Embiid matchups were fun to watch but Jokic clearly surpassed him.

[70sFan]

From the 2023 top 100 project, these were the top 15 centers:

KAJ
Russell
Hakeem
Wilt
Shaq
Mikan
DRobinson
Moses Malone
Jokic (#26)
Ewing
Dwight Howard
Embiid
Alonzo Mourning
Willis Reed
Dikembe Mutombo

(Tim Duncan and Anthony Davis are not included here. I've counted them as PF.)

I hadn't looked the centers rankings until now, but a few things surprised me. My tiers:

Tier 1 (in the GOAT debate):
KAJ, Russell, Wilt

Tier 2:
Hakeem, Jokic, Shaq

Tier 3:
Mikan, DRobinson, Moses, Ewing, Embiid

Tier 4:
Dwight, Zo, Willis Reed, Dikembe, and probably 5 or 6 others.

I went to start this thread because I was thinking, "Is Embiid a top 10 all-time center?" I think he has a case, but he'd be battling for that last slot in the top 10. Then, looking at the Top 100 rankings I was really surprised at how low Jokic was. I was wondering if he might crack the top 10 overall, and he's barely in the top 10 for centers on that list.

You missed Artis Gilmore, who was ranked ahead of Dwight.

Also - no, Embiid doesn't have much of a case for top 10 if you rank them based on career value.

[Special_Puppy]

You were wondering whether Jokic, who has appeared in six postseasons, won one title, and played 24 thousand minutes combined, would crack the top ten?

Yeah. Being ranked 10th all time means having a more valuable career than Curry or Kobe which clearly isn't the case for Jokic as of now

[mikejames23]

Almost 35 PPG and 33 PPG the prior seasons, his scoring ability should be analyzed. It's def. top tier scoring amongst GOATs.