PG: Knicks vs Celtics: Season opener!

[KnixinSix]

i think giannis might be available by next summer. and i would have rather waited on him than doing this. and maybe you don't get him. or maybe something else comes up or not. but you could still pivot if you had all your picks. and maybe even you take a slight step back this year. but if i could have put brunson and giannis together i would feel we had a better chance at winning it all and that's what it's all about. i kind of feel like up until this summer leon was pretty cautious in all his dealings and this summer he just went yolo for whatever reason. too many picks for mikal, no problem we're going for it. a trade for a somewhat maligned risky star in kat with a super expensive contract, let's do it. i wonder if all of this was part of the promises made to jalen to take less money. otherwise i'm not sure what changed.

I absolutely think Brunson taking a paycut was tied to the Knicks making moves or financial commitments (be it through resigning Randle or trading for KAT, not to mention trading for Bridges).

I think the idea of taking a step back in the short term for bigger long-term gains is interesting but it brings uncertainty and in this context I think it's likely Brunson takes the full max.

I do think KAT was a day-one Leon target, along with Booker, who's simply unavailable at this stage.

I really think the most problematic issue is that we no longer have our picks because we traded them for Mikal. I don't see swapping Randle and Divo for KAT as a major risk - the looming Randle extension was an even bigger risk and who else was going to trade value for Randle?

For me in an ideal world we'd have done the KAT trade with Randle, Bogdanovic and 1-2 firsts thrown in the deal. And we'd kept Divo and most of our picks trove. It would have been a compromise, but one that would've potentially allowed us to meet our objective (entering contention) while retaining the flexibility to pivot if necessary.

I mean truthfully I think the roster as presently constituted is still pretty loaded. They are just learning how to play together right now.

[Capn'O]

The only thing I’m panicking about is Mikal. Someone is gonna have to talk me down from the ledge. We sent 5 firsts. Even if he was a good 3 and D role player that’s insane but if he puts us over the top, ok fine. But he’s defense looks pretty sus and his shot is scary. Is he better than Donte? What are we doing here? Help

he is better than Donte because he should have the ability to impact POA defense which Donte did not. But last night certainly didn't prove that.

If he can't play D like in Phoenix it's an issue.

[mpharris36]

I'm not making the Mikal trade in that circumstance and the picks are still in play.

I'm not diving too deep as it's possible CLE doesn't even want a trade with us.

So Brunson/OG/Allen? Thats the core you are suggesting, just want to know where the starting point is. Yes we would maintain our picks in that scenario but I'm not sure that makes us better.

Arrive at

Brunson
Divo
OG
Randle
Allen

And our picks go out in the Allen trade. Maybe to a 3rd team with Mitch.


It's such a bummer to have lost iHart. That was so huge.

ok got it so Mitch salary and then the picks for Allen.

In that scenario are you committing to Randle long term as the go to #2 option? With his contract looming it would be very risky IMO. For one year that probably would have matched a lot of what we produced last year but I thin it would have a very limited upside.

[robillionaire]

i think giannis might be available by next summer. and i would have rather waited on him than doing this. and maybe you don't get him. or maybe something else comes up or not. but you could still pivot if you had all your picks. and maybe even you take a slight step back this year. but if i could have put brunson and giannis together i would feel we had a better chance at winning it all and that's what it's all about. i kind of feel like up until this summer leon was pretty cautious in all his dealings and this summer he just went yolo for whatever reason. too many picks for mikal, no problem we're going for it. a trade for a somewhat maligned risky star in kat with a super expensive contract, let's do it. i wonder if all of this was part of the promises made to jalen to take less money. otherwise i'm not sure what changed.

This should’ve been the play. Giannis said if they don’t win a chip he thinks they’re gonna trade him. Waiting for Giannis would’ve been worth it.

I think Leon was pressured to go all in on KAT at the very least. Marc stein said Rosas pushed for the deal more than anyone.

they wouldn’t have traded us Giannis for Donte and Randle

the main reason he’s off the table is because we send all those picks for Mikal

Even if we did the towns trade we could have traded towns and all those picks for Giannis

[sol537]

The only thing I’m panicking about is Mikal. Someone is gonna have to talk me down from the ledge. We sent 5 firsts. Even if he was a good 3 and D role player that’s insane but if he puts us over the top, ok fine. But he’s defense looks pretty sus and his shot is scary. Is he better than Donte? What are we doing here? Help

he is better than Donte because he should have the ability to impact POA defense which Donte did not. But last night certainly didn't prove that.

If he can't play D like in Phoenix it's an issue.

Mikal is going to be great for us. 2-way stud. Dude is a winner with lots of dog in him. Give it time.

[mpharris36]

The only thing I’m panicking about is Mikal. Someone is gonna have to talk me down from the ledge. We sent 5 firsts. Even if he was a good 3 and D role player that’s insane but if he puts us over the top, ok fine. But he’s defense looks pretty sus and his shot is scary. Is he better than Donte? What are we doing here? Help

he is better than Donte because he should have the ability to impact POA defense which Donte did not. But last night certainly didn't prove that.

If he can't play D like in Phoenix it's an issue.

correct or at a somewhat comparable level...that is ultimately the value. Wings are so valuable...especially two way wings in the playoffs because teams just go smaller and smaller with more spacing.

There are too many times down the stretch of games a Gobert level player or Allen level player gets taken out because the PF just ends up playing center in those situations because of small ball and spacing.

[KnixinSix]

We don't know whatever player is going to demand a trade or what other team is going to underperform wanting to blow it up.

I tend to think the kat/randle trade is fine considering the contracts/roster. But that mikal trade put us all in on a nice role player. One that even you think needs to average 26ppg which seems like an absurd lofty goal for him.

Mikal doesn't need to average 26ppg, he needs the aggression back that led to that. Playing passive like he did in the first half isn't the guy, the guy in the second half that actually looked to score is what we need from him.

I think more so than the offense we need him to be a two way player. He was getting smoked last night.

The offense was nice to see in the 2nd half it made me feel much better about his shooting going forward.

But he was brought in to be our POA defender...he will be on haliburton on friday...we need him to be super disruptive on defense.

I really feel Brunson and KAT can carry most of the offensive load with spurts for Mikal as a 3rd option...but we can't be throwing out defensive performances like last night from him and OG. THey need to be our core defensively.

And that's the most encouraging thing maybe of all. We all know that Bridges and OG are studs defensively. So it's either :

a) They are still adjusting to the system's complexities and will be fine once they acclimate.

-or-

b) This system will quickly prove to be a terrible fit and essentially stunts their defensive abilities.

If the latter proves to be the case it will be squarely on Thibs to adjust.

[robillionaire]

he is better than Donte because he should have the ability to impact POA defense which Donte did not. But last night certainly didn't prove that.

If he can't play D like in Phoenix it's an issue.

Mikal is going to be great for us. 2-way stud. Dude is a winner with lots of dog in him. Give it time.

Yeah I really hope so and I will give it time

[Capn'O]

So Brunson/OG/Allen? Thats the core you are suggesting, just want to know where the starting point is. Yes we would maintain our picks in that scenario but I'm not sure that makes us better.

Arrive at

Brunson
Divo
OG
Randle
Allen

And our picks go out in the Allen trade. Maybe to a 3rd team with Mitch.


It's such a bummer to have lost iHart. That was so huge.

ok got it so Mitch salary and then the picks for Allen.

In that scenario are you committing to Randle long term as the go to #2 option? With his contract looming it would be very risky IMO. For one year that probably would have matched a lot of what we produced last year but I thin it would have a very limited upside.

Sure but the upside is you get a true Thibs big where we're kind of at a loss now. Conceded, there are risks here, as there were with the direction we went, and we don't even know if CLE will play ball so, again, it's not one where I want to go too deep down the rabbit hole of regret.

[mpharris36]

Mikal doesn't need to average 26ppg, he needs the aggression back that led to that. Playing passive like he did in the first half isn't the guy, the guy in the second half that actually looked to score is what we need from him.

I think more so than the offense we need him to be a two way player. He was getting smoked last night.

The offense was nice to see in the 2nd half it made me feel much better about his shooting going forward.

But he was brought in to be our POA defender...he will be on haliburton on friday...we need him to be super disruptive on defense.

I really feel Brunson and KAT can carry most of the offensive load with spurts for Mikal as a 3rd option...but we can't be throwing out defensive performances like last night from him and OG. THey need to be our core defensively.

And that's the most encouraging thing maybe of all. We all know that Bridges and OG are studs defensively. So it's either :

a) They are still adjusting to the system's complexities and will be fine once they acclimate.

-or-

b) This system will quickly prove to be a terrible fit and essentially stunts their defensive abilities.

If the latter proves to be the case it will be squarely on Thibs to adjust.

yes thibs needs to make this work as well. Enough of the drop coverage with KAT...that is not his game you can't treat him like Ihart and Mitch.

I would much rather have KAT switch on tatum and make him make a somewhat contested shot over him then letting tatum get a clean look off a screen.

[mpharris36]

Arrive at

Brunson
Divo
OG
Randle
Allen

And our picks go out in the Allen trade. Maybe to a 3rd team with Mitch.


It's such a bummer to have lost iHart. That was so huge.

ok got it so Mitch salary and then the picks for Allen.

In that scenario are you committing to Randle long term as the go to #2 option? With his contract looming it would be very risky IMO. For one year that probably would have matched a lot of what we produced last year but I thin it would have a very limited upside.

Sure but the upside is you get a true Thibs big where we're kind of at a loss now. Conceded, there are risks here, as there were with the direction we went, and we don't even know if CLE will play ball so, again, it's not one where I want to go too deep down the rabbit hole of regret.

fair...I will just say if thibs is a great coach he should be able to adjust to his personnel. He may prefer a drop coverage big but we currently don't have that. We have a more switchable team and we didn't use that at all vs BOS...

[Context]

Like everyone is saying, give it some time. You guys have 2 new starters, and building chemistry takes time. Celtics were in a similar boat last year - big trade in the offseason, followed by another big trade during training camp. And the Celtics looked horrible during the season opener last year if you want to look it up.

Thank you and appreciate you sharing
Ya'll come off the ledge yet?

[3toheadmelo]

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Were talking alot about how jHart can't shoot when the issue last night wasn't the offense. When the defense was the problem. And particularly the 2 new additions - kat and mikal.

It’s not surprising to me cause I been saying for months how ass both them dudes are on defense. It’s going to take a miracle for them to get fixed.

[mpharris36]

Like everyone is saying, give it some time. You guys have 2 new starters, and building chemistry takes time. Celtics were in a similar boat last year - big trade in the offseason, followed by another big trade during training camp. And the Celtics looked horrible during the season opener last year if you want to look it up.

Thank you and appreciate you sharing
Ya'll come off the ledge yet?

this man was trolling so he could eventually call the knicks trash...don't buy that sh*t

[stuporman]

Under Thibs the Knicks have been around .500 until the new year every season so I'm not sure why this season would be any different and especially with the changes it will likely be the same.

[3toheadmelo]

If the Knicks are still terrible after 15 games, we should consider blowing up the team and tank for Cooper Flagg/Ace Bailey

[mpharris36]

If the Knicks are still terrible after 15 games, we should consider blowing up the team and tank for Cooper Flagg/Ace Bailey

this is a troll post right? We don't have our 1st round pick

[Knicksfan1992]

Meh... Watching those clips only maybe 2-3 of those are directly KAT's fault. A lot of twitter people just don't really watch ball or know enough about defense and help rules. Actually, moreso they are confirmation biased in their conclusions rather than process or decision-making oriented in what they conclude.

[TheGreenArrow]

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=W09F6FrMDfp5_y1gKYgF1g

Everybody’s talking about mikal & kats Defense but we may actually have a Jalen Brunson Problem!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We can’t hide him on anyone on the Celtics!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Context]

Like everyone is saying, give it some time. You guys have 2 new starters, and building chemistry takes time. Celtics were in a similar boat last year - big trade in the offseason, followed by another big trade during training camp. And the Celtics looked horrible during the season opener last year if you want to look it up.

Thank you and appreciate you sharing
Ya'll come off the ledge yet?

this man was trolling so he could eventually call the knicks trash...don't buy that sh*t

oh really now?!