Kuminga and moody extensions

wco81 · Post #121 » by **wco81** » Tue Oct 22, 2024 6:34 pm

Would you pay what Franz's extension to Franz or JK?

Orlando seems to really believe in their roster. They got a lot of very athletic, high lotto picks, who's had some good games.

But they still haven't shown that they could be a good enough offense to get past the first round.

I wouldn't pay either of them 5-years $224 million.

WarriorGM · Post #122 » by **WarriorGM** » Tue Oct 22, 2024 6:46 pm

Was Kuminga offered 30M per year? If he didn't take it that does sound wild. I thought he was being given the Moody treatment and in that case I would have totally understood Kuminga's desire to hold out for a better deal.

Onus · Post #123 » by **Onus** » Tue Oct 22, 2024 7:14 pm

wco81 wrote:Would you pay what Franz's extension to Franz or JK?

Orlando seems to really believe in their roster. They got a lot of very athletic, high lotto picks, who's had some good games.

But they still haven't shown that they could be a good enough offense to get past the first round.

I wouldn't pay either of them 5-years $224 million.

TBH I wouldn't have given anyone from this draft class a max. Especially since we're basically in a hard capped league. Depth is going to be so important for the regular season.

Old Head · Post #124 » by **Old Head** » Wed Oct 23, 2024 5:27 pm

Franz definitely worth more than JK now. His BB IQ is the biggest difference. JK, unless he shows differently this year, maybe mid to high 30s at the most

EvanZ · Post #125 » by **EvanZ** » Wed Oct 23, 2024 5:54 pm

WarriorGM wrote:Was Kuminga offered 30M per year? If he didn't take it that does sound wild. I thought he was being given the Moody treatment and in that case I would have totally understood Kuminga's desire to hold out for a better deal.

I highly doubt they offered Kuminga the Moody deal lol

CDM_Stats · Post #126 » by **CDM_Stats** » Wed Oct 23, 2024 5:58 pm

Old Head wrote:Franz definitely worth more than JK now. His BB IQ is the biggest difference. JK, unless he shows differently this year, maybe mid to high 30s at the most

Of course... Franz had an awful shooting season last year and was still a very good player. His floor is still a very solid player, and still has upside in terms of creating more, shooting better, and rebounding better (though I wouldnt bet on that part)

Frankly they shouldn't be comped at all.. Franz was paid because of his lack of theoretical downside. JK wasn't paid because of his theoretical downside. If Franz hits his prior average for 3s, .357%, in tracking he'd go from being a top 50 player last year to a top 30 player. That's very realistic upside, along with his steadily improving defense and playmaking

WarriorGM · Post #127 » by **WarriorGM** » Wed Oct 23, 2024 6:01 pm

EvanZ wrote:
WarriorGM wrote:Was Kuminga offered 30M per year? If he didn't take it that does sound wild. I thought he was being given the Moody treatment and in that case I would have totally understood Kuminga's desire to hold out for a better deal.

I highly doubt they offered Kuminga the Moody deal lol

Frankly I don't really understand why Kuminga is being treated that much differently. I kind of get it that Kuminga's upside is considered higher, but from what they've actually done so far I don't see why Kuminga would deserve more than double the offer Moody is receiving aside from hype. Kuminga remains a higher risk higher reward proposition.

CDM_Stats · Post #128 » by **CDM_Stats** » Wed Oct 23, 2024 6:07 pm

WarriorGM wrote:
EvanZ wrote:
WarriorGM wrote:Was Kuminga offered 30M per year? If he didn't take it that does sound wild. I thought he was being given the Moody treatment and in that case I would have totally understood Kuminga's desire to hold out for a better deal.

I highly doubt they offered Kuminga the Moody deal lol

Frankly I don't really understand why Kuminga is being treated that much differently. I kind of get it that Kuminga's upside is considered higher, but from what they've actually done so far I don't see why Kuminga would deserve more than double the offer Moody is receiving aside from hype.

It's a good question.. I'd say opportunity cost, but the thing is that its extremely rare that players who are good secondary scorers (without being good playmakers on top of it) ever get to elite efficiency or run a team, so that takes him out of being a #1 option. Guys who are mostly below average at defense consistently tend to stay closer to that, with most exceptions to that rule being guys in their late 20s who do so out of necessity. Which leaves the 3rd option, probably the most likely one, secondary/tertiary scorer. A secondary scorer could be worth what JK wants, if the efficiency level is good AND it helps out the team dynamic - for example, an elite shooter creates more spacing for drives, or an elite driver creates more spacing for shooters. Problem with JK is his vision is mostly downhill at this point - which is a great starting point - but he would need for his drives to result in perimeter kickouts more often. A tertiary scorer probably doesnt need that as much, but is also not worth near a max contract because of it

Its a tough line to walk, but as agents know very well - only takes one desperate team to make a deal. And there's always a GM on the hotseat or some franchise trying to claw its way out of being terrible.. think the Knicks thought anyone would pay David Lee a near max contract? Welp, some franchise trying to claw its way out of being terrible did..

wco81 · Post #129 » by **wco81** » Wed Oct 23, 2024 6:27 pm

Windhorst saying the two sides didn't come close numbers-wise to signing JK to an extension before the deadline.

vvoland · Post #130 » by **vvoland** » Wed Oct 23, 2024 6:31 pm

wco81 wrote:Windhorst saying the two sides didn't come close numbers-wise to signing JK to an extension before the deadline.

I heard that podcast. No one every says what "not close" means and the difference between 30 and 35 per year over a 5 year deal is $25M. Is that a small, medium, or large gap?

EvanZ · Post #131 » by **EvanZ** » Wed Oct 23, 2024 7:38 pm

I think the least the Warriors would have offered Kuminga as to not offend him is something along the lines of the Trey Murphy deal.

Trey Murphy absolutely deserved that contract though.

Old Head · Post #132 » by **Old Head** » Wed Oct 23, 2024 10:12 pm

I like the show me approach & being a little cautious approach we are now taking. I'm also good with taking the similar approach to Klay & other teams, which is we start doing what is best for Team W going forward, not overspending unless we know for sure.

Crazy-Canuck · Post #133 » by **Crazy-Canuck** » Thu Oct 24, 2024 12:34 am

wco81 wrote:Windhorst saying the two sides didn't come close numbers-wise to signing JK to an extension before the deadline.

Slater reported 30M range, but sounded like a courtesy offer. Jk wants the max, so there was no negotiation to be had. This shouldn't be new, him wanting max money has been floating all off season.

Old Head · Post #134 » by **Old Head** » Thu Oct 24, 2024 12:59 am

As of now, no way he is a Max player. W's would be overpaying. I rather he prove himself, or we maybe match(if not too expensive)....if another team really wants to overpay - or setup sign & trade/picks

Old Head · Post #135 » by **Old Head** » Thu Oct 24, 2024 12:59 am

And I've been rooting for JK

Twinkie defense · Post #136 » by **Twinkie defense** » Fri Oct 25, 2024 8:49 pm

According to RealGM, Philly and Brooklyn are interested in Kuminga. IDK if there's a deal to be had with either of those teams without a third team getting involved :dontknow:

TB · Post #137 » by TB » Fri Oct 25, 2024 10:22 pm

Twinkie defense wrote:According to RealGM, Philly and Brooklyn are interested in Kuminga. IDK if there's a deal to be had with either of those teams without a third team getting involved

KJ Martin and picks from the Sixers (which was mentioned in the article) doesn't move me at all...

However, if the fit with Kuminga continues to be a bit off as the season progresses, I'd definitely be interested in Noah Clowney from the Nets (plus a pick or two)... Also, we are pretty light on actual PGs, so if we ran into any injury troubles, could add Denis coming our way while adding either GP2 or Loon heading to the Nets.

I'm a Kuminga fan, but Denis and Clowney could definitely fit a need if the 3/4 positions are being more productive with non-Kuminga guys on our roster.

whatisacenter · Post #138 » by **whatisacenter** » Fri Oct 25, 2024 10:33 pm

Twinkie defense wrote:According to RealGM, Philly and Brooklyn are interested in Kuminga. IDK if there's a deal to be had with either of those teams without a third team getting involved

This is the type of article that drives me crazy. A year from now some poster here will say the Warriors blew a chance of trading Kuminga to one of these teams and will site this story.

I heard Jake Fisher talk about this and it is more his opinion about who might be interested rather than serious talk about acquiring JK. The Nets will have a ton of salary cap room to sign a free agent after Ben Simmons' contract comes off the books which is what the bulk of this story is based on.

wco81 · Post #139 » by **wco81** » Fri Oct 25, 2024 10:39 pm

I thought Brooklyn was rebuilding, so why would they sign a big contract right now?

They got all those Knicks draft picks so it doesn't seem like they'd be in a hurry to give out a 9-figure contract.

Cam Thomas is going to be an RFA after the season so that's a more immediate decision for them, unless they look to move him before the trade deadline.

In any event, if they're going to trade JK, it would be with other players to consolidate because I don't know how long they can keep this 12-man rotation thing going.

CDM_Stats · Post #140 » by **CDM_Stats** » Sat Oct 26, 2024 5:49 am

Twinkie defense wrote:According to RealGM, Philly and Brooklyn are interested in Kuminga. IDK if there's a deal to be had with either of those teams without a third team getting involved

The window for trading him for value is closed... only trade him if he's a definite detriment to the team. And I mean with a dataset that goes through December, at least. This roster is different than last years.. frankly of the guys on a rookie contract, he's not the one I'm most worried about