PG - Good news, we suck!

[OzmanTheWizard]

I’m glad that this team is probably going to suck, so I’m not worried about getting an antenna to watch them.


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[chitownsports4ever]

This thread is hilarious you knew what some would post before you even opened it.

We out shot them from two, out rebounded them offensively and defensively , out ft'ed em , and out shot them in the paint but of course if you give the home team 30 points off turnovers you are more often than not gonna lose.

[madvillian]

This thread is hilarious you knew what some would post before you even opened it.

We out shot them from two, out rebounded them offensively and defensively , out ft'ed em , and out shot them in the paint but of course if you give the home team 30 points off turnovers you are more often than not gonna lose.

21 TO and 10-34 from deep. Yikes. There's a lot of analysis about how we got those numbers however. I don't think a single player had what I'd consider a "winning" game other than maybe Smith. Some guys put up some decent numbers but as a whole it was a losing effort. There will be many more losing efforts this season, the defense is like worst case bad imo. Doug correctly called out Giddey as a box score guy only and my fears about him were realized as well. He's Tomas Santorsky 2.0 until proven otherwise. I could go on and on but already summed up most my thoughts I guess.

[chitownsports4ever]

This thread is hilarious you knew what some would post before you even opened it.

We out shot them from two, out rebounded them offensively and defensively , out ft'ed em , and out shot them in the paint but of course if you give the home team 30 points off turnovers you are more often than not gonna lose.

21 TO and 10-34 from deep. Yikes. There's a lot of analysis about how we got those numbers however. I don't think a single player had what I'd consider a "winning" game other than maybe Smith. Some guys put up some decent numbers but as a whole it was a losing effort. There will be many more losing efforts this season, the defense is like worst case bad imo. Doug correctly called out Giddey as a box score guy only and my fears about him were realized as well. He's Tomas Santorsky 2.0 until proven otherwise. I could go on and on but already summed up most my thoughts I guess.

What about Smiths game was "winning " more so than anyone else ?

I was asking for the past 2 months who was gonna guard Ingram so Im not surprised about what happens when we purposely continue to surrender size advantages for no reason .

But even with all that take care of the ball and they win the game as we gave up a 15-5 run based entirely off turnovers and dumb heat checks.

We lost the 3rd quarter 36-25 because that run and thats the difference between winning and losing

[CROBulls]

Always knew we sucked. 0-5 start is on menu, boys. We gonna eat good. Too bad we have terrible leadership in front office. This guys can make salmonela out of expiring eggs.

[madvillian]

This thread is hilarious you knew what some would post before you even opened it.

We out shot them from two, out rebounded them offensively and defensively , out ft'ed em , and out shot them in the paint but of course if you give the home team 30 points off turnovers you are more often than not gonna lose.

21 TO and 10-34 from deep. Yikes. There's a lot of analysis about how we got those numbers however. I don't think a single player had what I'd consider a "winning" game other than maybe Smith. Some guys put up some decent numbers but as a whole it was a losing effort. There will be many more losing efforts this season, the defense is like worst case bad imo. Doug correctly called out Giddey as a box score guy only and my fears about him were realized as well. He's Tomas Santorsky 2.0 until proven otherwise. I could go on and on but already summed up most my thoughts I guess.

What about Smiths game was "winning " more so than anyone else ?

I was asking for the past 2 months who was gonna guard Ingram so Im not surprised about what happens when we purposely continue to surrender size advantages for no reason .

But even with all that take care of the ball and they win the game as we gave up a 15-5 run based entirely off turnovers and dumb heat checks.

We lost the 3rd quarter 36-25 because that run and thats the difference between winning and losing

Uh, he had a +2 in his minutes, had 15 points on 8 shots, defended the paint a bit and in general looked like a real NBA center in 2024 that doesn't need to "get his touches" he gets his touches on rebounds and putbacks and otherwise gets out of the way on offense and plays solid defense.

We haven't had a center like that since young Noah. Gafford was a bit but he was still really raw when he was here.

[DropStep]

I prioritize the long game, so I would hope to suffer horribly through the following script for this season, which after 1 game we're on course for: we take 8-10 weeks figuring out how our new pieces fit, Zach and Vuc get full meals every night, we grumble about how young players aren't getting enough minutes and the THTs get too many minutes, Giddey doesn't quite find his role, our defense is (clearly) atrocious, our offense plays faster with more 3's but doesn't work efficiently enough, and we flounder into Christmas as one of the three or so worst teams in the league. Then, rehabilitated Vuc and Zach are traded, the roster is streamlined and roles get defined, Giddey and Buzelis and Smith and even Lonzo get more to eat, we flounder for a few weeks as people who will stay here start getting real minutes playing together, we see occasional flashes, the defense improves due to time together and better defensive players on the floor, and we finish the season with a surprising last 4 weeks but still land the fifth worst record, with good draft odds and encouraging signs for the future.

We can't pull that off without a whole lot of losing now, so honestly I'm kind of ok with this box score. I would of course like to see better signs from Buz and Giddey, but I can wait on that, it's game 1.

[Chi town]

1. Pels probably top 3 hustle team with Alvarado Missi Herb Jones

2. We have Missininstead of Vuc we win that game.

3. Most of the TOs were self inflicted.

4. Lonzo is only going to get better. No way we can sustain playing 5 guards. Log jam.

[umfan83]

I really just dont understand the point of this team and their direction as a franchise. Can anyone explain to me what they are trying to do right now? I don't understand the Giddey trade at all. The Thunder have up to 5 first round picks this year in a draft everyone is saying will be super deep and AC was probably our best trade asset. I understand that FRPs are no guarantees, but we bought low on Giddey and he's an RFA. How does he help us come closer to being a championship team? I get they were in a rough spot with Pat but I don't see how a $90m extension for him helps us come closer to being a championship team. Zo is a nice story but how does playing him, even if he is potentially the best PG on the roster, get us closer to being a championship team especially with his injury history and impending FA status? I can understand maybe slowly working Matas into the rotation as he's still a bit raw, but how does playing guys like THT over him help us in the long term?

I dont understand if we're tanking, or trying to win. Some decisions suggest the former, some suggest the latter. All in all it leads to your typical Bulls team that isn't good enough for the playoffs but isn't bad enough to be a threat for a top pick...and in this case we will have no picks in a deep draft if we aren't bad enough. It seems like no one involved in the organization even cares about this...I can't even watch the damn games on TV. None of this makes sense to me. Make it make sense!!!

[madvillian]

I really just dont understand the point of this team and their direction as a franchise. Can anyone explain to me what they are trying to do right now? I don't understand the Giddey trade at all. The Thunder have up to 5 first round picks this year in a draft everyone is saying will be super deep and AC was probably our best trade asset. I understand that FRPs are no guarantees, but we bought low on Giddey and he's an RFA. How does he help us come closer to being a championship team? I get they were in a rough spot with Pat but I don't see how a $90m extension for him helps us come closer to being a championship team. Zo is a nice story but how does playing him, even if he is potentially the best PG on the roster, get us closer to being a championship team especially with his injury history and impending FA status? I can understand maybe slowly working Matas into the rotation as he's still a bit raw, but how does playing guys like THT over him help us in the long term?

I dont understand if we're tanking, or trying to win. Some decisions suggest the former, some suggest the latter. All in all it leads to your typical Bulls team that isn't good enough for the playoffs but isn't bad enough to be a threat for a top pick...and in this case we will have no picks in a deep draft if we aren't bad enough. It seems like no one involved in the organization even cares about this...I can't even watch the damn games on TV. None of this makes sense to me. Make it make sense!!!

We have a billion guards, like one wing, and about 1.5 centers. Such a stupidly built roster and I just hope they made it with the intention of a tank but you know I'm not sure about that.

[Bulliever2020]

I really just dont understand the point of this team and their direction as a franchise. Can anyone explain to me what they are trying to do right now? I don't understand the Giddey trade at all. The Thunder have up to 5 first round picks this year in a draft everyone is saying will be super deep and AC was probably our best trade asset. I understand that FRPs are no guarantees, but we bought low on Giddey and he's an RFA. How does he help us come closer to being a championship team? I get they were in a rough spot with Pat but I don't see how a $90m extension for him helps us come closer to being a championship team. Zo is a nice story but how does playing him, even if he is potentially the best PG on the roster, get us closer to being a championship team especially with his injury history and impending FA status? I can understand maybe slowly working Matas into the rotation as he's still a bit raw, but how does playing guys like THT over him help us in the long term?

I dont understand if we're tanking, or trying to win. Some decisions suggest the former, some suggest the latter. All in all it leads to your typical Bulls team that isn't good enough for the playoffs but isn't bad enough to be a threat for a top pick...and in this case we will have no picks in a deep draft if we aren't bad enough. It seems like no one involved in the organization even cares about this...I can't even watch the damn games on TV. None of this makes sense to me. Make it make sense!!!

It's pretty simple. This organization doesn't care about championships and just wants butts in seats. There was even a Bulls FO employee that basically admitted that fact last season. A halfway competitive team is all they need in Chicago to maintain that #1 in attendance figure. Until that or ownership changes, mediocrity will be completely acceptable. Man that was depressing to type out.

[FriedRise]

1. Pels probably top 3 hustle team with Alvarado Missi Herb Jones

Bro, you're missing at least 5 more hustle players they have on their team

Spoiler:

[Dan Z]

What do you think is the best case scenario for this team? Do they make it to the playoffs? First round exit?

Let's say they end up being a surprise. Does that mean Giddey puts up stats closer to what he did in 2022-23? Patrick Williams becomes a decent starter? Ayo and Coby build off of what they did last year? Lonzo is healthy and back to be his old self? Vuc shoots better from three? Zach still gets traded? Matas shows some potential? Jalen Smith is a good rotation player?

I know that's a lot of questions, but if that happens isn't this just more of the same? Meaning another low playoff seed at best. No real contender. Giddey has a solid year and he's signed to a big contract. The pick goes to San Antonio. Next year Ayo and Coby are on the last years of their deals. Vucevic too. The bright spot would be Matas.

[MrSparkle]

What do you think is the best case scenario for this team? Do they make it to the playoffs? First round exit?

Let's say they end up being a surprise. Does that mean Giddey puts up stats closer to what he did in 2022-23? Patrick Williams becomes a decent starter? Ayo and Coby build off of what they did last year? Lonzo is healthy and back to be his old self? Vuc shoots better from three? Zach still gets traded? Matas shows some potential? Jalen Smith is a good rotation player?

I know that's a lot of questions, but if that happens isn't this just more of the same? Meaning another low playoff seed at best. No real contender. Giddey has a solid year and he's signed to a big contract. The pick goes to San Antonio. Next year Ayo and Coby are on the last years of their deals. Vucevic too. The bright spot would be Matas.

Pretty much. This team is 5 trades away from rebuilding, let alone contending.

[Infinity2152]

Most of these problems we're nitpicking about are illusions. the Bulls biggest problem is lack of high end talent. If Giannis or Embid or Lebron or Luka is on this team, a TON of these problems go away. If two guys the caliber of say Tatum and Brown are on this team, way different picture. The best teams in the NBA are MILES over the salary cap, and we act like Lavine's salary is what's holding us back. We're complaining about Lauri, so what if we still had him? Celtics have a team with 5 players around Lauri's level or better. That team with Ball, Lavine, Derozan, Vucevic with Coby, Ayo and Pat Will plus some vets off the bench had potential to be a top 5 team without a top 5 player. The young guys were too young and we needed to hit with the Williams pick. Pat was a #4 pick, best case, we could have gotten ROY, 18 and 9, defensive beast, all around killer and we got passive Pat as a starter. What if Coby was then who he is now? Without Ball's injury, and a better Pat Will, I think we were far closer to being a GREAT team than it looks like now.

We have like 8 good-very good players, grab the next available by trade top 5-10 player, and trade some of these mid value guys for shots at high draft picks. That means Coby, Ayo, Pat, Vuc, Carter, Craig, as the team stands now, I'd keep Ball, Lavine, Giddey, Matas because you won't get fair value for them now, everybody else is trade bait.

Giddey is STILL not being allowed to play to his best skills, for those hating on him. He's not primary ballhandler a lot, and playing with at least one other PG most of the game. We trade one or two of those guards for wings or a PF then instead of say Coby, Zach, Giddey, Williams you have Giddey, Lavine, Williams, PF. Second lineup is much bigger, Giddey and Zach primary playmakers, hopefully mostly Giddey and his skillset is maximized. Defense overall should be far better too, and he's matched up against 6'2 guys instead of 6'7 guys. Trying to think of an equal trade value young PF for Coby or Ayo, y'all help me out. PJ Washington? Miles Bridges? Cam Johnson?

[drosestruts]

What do you think is the best case scenario for this team? Do they make it to the playoffs? First round exit?

Let's say they end up being a surprise. Does that mean Giddey puts up stats closer to what he did in 2022-23? Patrick Williams becomes a decent starter? Ayo and Coby build off of what they did last year? Lonzo is healthy and back to be his old self? Vuc shoots better from three? Zach still gets traded? Matas shows some potential? Jalen Smith is a good rotation player?

I know that's a lot of questions, but if that happens isn't this just more of the same? Meaning another low playoff seed at best. No real contender. Giddey has a solid year and he's signed to a big contract. The pick goes to San Antonio. Next year Ayo and Coby are on the last years of their deals. Vucevic too. The bright spot would be Matas.

No one jumps from bad to contender.

If the Bulls do everything you said above - especially make the playoffs and trade Zach during the season than the season has to be viewed as a success. You've now made the playoffs with a young core - you continue adding to that core, hope they keep developing, and that additional pieces you add can contribute to winning to.

It is not more of the same.

When we achieved this before we did so on the backs of veterans like DeMar, Vuc, Caruso, Beverley, etc. - all guys 30+

If we achieved the same things this year with a group of guys all 26 and younger - you have to look at that as completely different.

[Dan Z]

Most of these problems we're nitpicking about are illusions. the Bulls biggest problem is lack of high end talent. If Giannis or Embid or Lebron or Luka is on this team, a TON of these problems go away. If two guys the caliber of say Tatum and Brown are on this team, way different picture. The best teams in the NBA are MILES over the salary cap, and we act like Lavine's salary is what's holding us back. We're complaining about Lauri, so what if we still had him? Celtics have a team with 5 players around Lauri's level or better. That team with Ball, Lavine, Derozan, Vucevic with Coby, Ayo and Pat Will plus some vets off the bench had potential to be a top 5 team without a top 5 player. The young guys were too young and we needed to hit with the Williams pick. Pat was a #4 pick, best case, we could have gotten ROY, 18 and 9, defensive beast, all around killer and we got passive Pat as a starter. What if Coby was then who he is now? Without Ball's injury, and a better Pat Will, I think we were far closer to being a GREAT team than it looks like now.

We have like 8 good-very good players, grab the next available by trade top 5-10 player, and trade some of these mid value guys for shots at high draft picks. That means Coby, Ayo, Pat, Vuc, as the team stands now, I'd keep Ball, Lavine, Giddey, Matas because you won't get fair value for them now, everybody else is trade bait.

Giddey is STILL not being allowed to play to his best skills, for those hating on him. He's not primary ballhandler a lot, and playing with at least one other PG most of the game. We trade one or two of those guards for wings or a PF then instead of say Coby, Zach, Giddey, Williams you have Giddey, Lavine, Williams, PF. Second lineup is much bigger, Giddey and Zach primary playmakers, hopefully mostly Giddey and his skillset is maximized. Defense overall should be far better too, and he's matched up against 6'2 guys instead of 6'7 guys. Trying to think of an equal trade value young PF for Coby or Ayo, y'all help me out. PJ Washington? Miles Bridges? Cam Johnson?

The Bulls would be much better with Lauri because he's an all-star level player (in his prime) with size who can shoot. Would he solve all the Bulls problems? No, but he'd definitely help.

As for your first paragraph I agree with you, which is why I think AKME should continue to search for a franchise player. It doesn't have to be a superstar, but should be someone young with all-star potential. A player you can build and grow with.

Right now who on the roster fits that mold? Nobody. Maybe Matas and I've said that before because he's new. That's it. It's also why I think they should do what they can to keep the 2025 pick and try go get said player.

Regarding the rest...I doubt PJ Washington is available and Miles Bridges I wouldn't want due to his off court issues. Cam Johnson...maybe. Good shooter, but not a great rebounder for the PF position. I'm not sure who the Bulls could realistically get for Coby or Ayo and ultimately I'm not sure if it matters because of what I said above (about not having a franchise player).

[chitowndish]

My antenna stopped getting a good signal halfway through the game so I missed the bad part. I agree though that this team is going to be a lot worse in the 4th because of DDR and Caruso I think that was a great point we will lose a lot more close games. Will be more frustrating games but good for our pick, I think what is frustrating is I'd rather see the young guys more if this is the case.

With rotations I feel like for better or worse this is always how Billy starts with a team he goes through a lot of strange rotations until he settles down on what he has rather than coming into the season with a solid game plan. He's like a coach that has to play himself into game shape. The worst thing I heard was that we had Coby and Zach running the team racking up TO's and weren't using Giddey/Lonzo to run the team which is a travesty we need to get Coby and Zach more off ball. Kind of the same thing with DDR though I don't know if Billy is willing to tell them they need to give up the ball but it needs to happen.

Overall from what I saw I think it will be a pretty fun team if we start actually using the PG's we have and then the interesting thing becomes that Lonzo kind of fits well with Giddey so you can run both of them and Lonzo actually helps you on D. I have been shocked how good he looks I don't want to put too much pressure on him time wise but I would check out some lineups with both of them out there. Like a Ayo Giddey Lonzo could be solid 1-3 and it would be cool to have two passers that can put pressure on a defense. I wouldn't overuse it but it could be an interesting lineup especially if Matas starts cutting to the basket and you can play him and Smith they should see lob city and be pretty solid on D.

[MrSparkle]

We have a starting lineup (and primary 5-man unit, unless Lonzo/Ayo become the new Caruso mini PF) that is easily the most defensively challenged squad in the league. You can dump Zach but if Lonzo or Ayo step in, you’re down your best 3P shooter and still short.

Besides that, which I think solidifies as a .500 ceiling team (in maximumly optimistic scenario), I do think we’re a Coby hot streak away from winning games. But I’ve been saying that since 2019- he seems like a very streaky guard.

The team can go on a roll, but it’ll be after some injuries happen and Billy’s rotation is forced upon him. And it’ll work, because there will be some defensive balance. Not the free cheese Giddey/Vuc, Zach/Coby help debacle.

[Chi town]

1. Pels probably top 3 hustle team with Alvarado Missi Herb Jones

Bro, you're missing at least 5 more hustle players they have on their team

Spoiler:

Truth.