OT: USA 2024 Elections Thread Part # 2 (November 5th is Election Day!)

[RHODEY]

I don't understand how this is even a choice, but shockingly, nearly 40% of the country seems to really like Trump. I'm embarrassed for my country.

I wouldn't say 40% of this country "really likes Trump". It's probably less than that.

But I guess 46% of the country rather have him over Kamala, who can be viewed as unlikable like Hillary Clinton. But even she managed to rack up 3 million more votes than Donald.

So really, all the fear is in the Electoral College, and this is the only reason this is even "close". I can say without a doubt, that Kamala will get more votes than Trump. I'm betting it could be by a wider margin than 2016, but not as much as 2020.

Just analyzing the electoral map, Trump just looks favored though.

I've never understood Kamala's unpopularity. I understood Hillary's.

I put my hope in the belief that the polls have been wrong before. The so called "Red Wave" of 2022 was more of a red trickle. The polls showed republican, but the result was very different.

Maybe 2022 isn't a good model for 2024, but that's what I'm hoping for.

Bill Maher's 2 cents:

Watch on YouTube

[Pointgod]

We can’t go to war against Iran without congressional authorization, right?

The Muslim countries in the region are now pulling together. Their people are outraged and it’s beginning to boil over. They are getting financial and military support from China and Russia. BRICS is getting stronger while Turkey is considering leaving NATO. The cards are being dealt and our hand isn’t looking so good. We’re going to get into another protracted war in the Middle East.

USA will still win, imho. But it will come at a great cost, even for the US. These ME countries, sadly, are used to losing lives in the hundred thousands and millions. And the west deems all those lives as disposable.

America can't stomach thousands of lives, so I'm not sure what their end game here is. If Afghanistan took 20 years + 2 trillion dollars, I don't think a war with Iran will be any better.

Hell, we won't even be able to stomach 5 bucks a gallon for gas. And that's being generous if we go to war with Iran.

The U.S. will never put troops on the ground in Iran. I don't think that the American people will stomach that. That's a suicide mission. Remember the lessons of Vietnam. The VC lost 1.5 million and we "only" lost about 55,000. Many years after that war, Robert McNamara (Sec. of State) met with the lead general of the VC and they spoke. He told McNamara that the U.S. never understood that they were fighting for their land and would've fought to the last man. So, I think we'll get our ass kicked just like we have in all other wars we've fought over the last couple of decades.

There’s a very higher chance of a war with Iran with Trump at the helm than there is with Harris. And what makes you think Trump wouldn’t send troops or use nukes on Iran? I don’t think you understand the danger of someone with zero impulse control, surrounded by other people with zero impulse country with the biggest military arsenal in the world. At that points there’s literally nothing Congress could do to stop a dictator.

There was the U.S. had a path to deescalations with the Iran deal because of Obama and you guys voted in Trump who ripped it up. This is part of what has led to where things are now.

[MrDollarBills]

I don't think we get anywhere by insulting each other because ultimately i think the people who are pissed off over Israel are rightfully angry over this and they aren't coming from a place of bad faith. Biden let Bibi cross multiple red lines to the detriment of not only thousands of innocent lives abroad, but his actions have now put our democracy in jeopardy because it is now damaging to the Harris campaign. Joe has f*cked Harris over royally here and by extension all of the sane Americans who aren't part of the MAGA death cult.

That being said, while there is no direct connection, you are correct: the people willing to basically vote for Trump by way of voting for Putin Stooge Stein are basically not only falling prey to Putin's long game, but Bibi's as well.

This is election interference at its finest. Russia and Israel would love nothing more than Americans to sit at home or vote 3rd party to propel Trump back into the White House.

-Palestinians will really be wiped out. There will be no chance for the violence to stop once Trump is elected. It will happen so fast you will not even have time to question your own actions.

-US leaves NATO, Trump gives Putin the green light and support to crush Ukraine and set his sights on his next targets in Europe.

Again, you guys have every right to be upset. But what you're really doing is throwing gasoline on an already out of control fire and it's going to burn everything down.

Think this through. I'm literally begging you guys. Think this through. Do you really think its in your best interest to help Donald Trump? If you do, i fear you may be underestimating just how serious this situation is for the entire world.

Do you seriously want to aid Bibi? Nevermind Trump. Do you really want to give Bibi exactly what he wants?

The thing is... This could all be outdone by not funding a genocide. Jill Stein shouldn't even be a problem. She's literally campaigning on not funding a genocide. That's it.

If you ask me, this is a layup if you are the Democratic Party.

I don't think labeling the troubled voters Putin puppets is the answer. It's not Putin's puppets or Kremlin posting TikToks of demolished homes and mocking dead children in Palestine or Lebanon. It's.... the IDF with USA's full support.

If we really have to point that finger at anybody for falling into Putin's or Bibi's trap, you can only point it at the current administration.

I did not label any voters "Putin puppets". I literally said in my previous post that insulting people who are on the fence or are upset with Biden isn't good either. We're on the same side here.

Also, I am blaming the current administration, i am pissed as hell at Biden because he has basically helped Trump by letting Bibi spit in his face with impunity.

I just am trying to say to people who are thinking about sitting home or voting 3rd party in a non swing state that they're not helping anyone but Trump, Bibi, and Putin with their stance. This is the honest to God's truth.

If Trump is sworn in next year, I assure you: Bibi's next move will be a complete extermination of all Palestinian men, women and children, with Trump's approval. And it will not take months. It will be days.

[Stannis]

Look, the U.S.'s foreign policy is in BIG trouble right now and neither candidate is going to help, not while AIPAC and the military complex is running sht.

I’m struggling with it. It ain’t easy, brother

Yall think somebody within the US leaked the Israel details to Iran?

Seems like some people within know that a war with Iran is a terrible idea.

[MrDollarBills]

Read on Twitter

Not what I expected to see tonight

Felt like these guys hang out after hours as in they have an abiding professional respect between highly paid windbag broadcasters and that SAS is basically an anyone but Trump Republican. IDGAF though. It's SAS who is not much more than a Hoover vacuum with a fashion budget

This made me want to never vote again

Well, depending on how next month goes, you may not have to worry any more if Donald "I wish my generals were like Hitler's" Trump wins.

[MrDollarBills]

Imagine voting for someone endorsed by the KKK lol

I had to look this up. Jesus christ.

Putin has won. I'm voting Harris tomorrow and preparing myself mentally for the worst because I don't think the views expressed on here regarding Stein are in a vacuum.

[MrDollarBills]

Very well said when it comes to voting and not voting.

Read on Twitter

She's literally saying what we are saying but it's clear that people do not give a damn about who will be hurt by a 2nd and permanent Trump/Vance presidency as long as they get their pound of flesh. This seriously sucks

[Pointgod]

She wants the war to end. She has said as much. Biden policy is tying to get the cease fire talks going as we speak. Trump does not want anything to stop. Those are your options. Where is the disconnect for you? If you vote to help her win you can then have a seat at the table. If he wins you have a seat at the TV screen to watch Bibi continue with no one to stop him.

Are you forgetting the turmoil Trump will cause in the country you live in? Or the consequences for the Ukraine? I have seen you talk about leaving the country if Trump wins. That's your other option. Seems like a weird choice to me but, it's your right. I just wish you could make it make sense to me because, I don't get it.

Both are criminals, Trump and Harris/Biden. The UN, ICC, and many, many humanitarian organizations all agree and so do I. But what do we do?

Wanting Harris and her puppeteers is akin to bringing in the second coming of a Biden administration-type foreign policy? You want Trump who is as John Gotti as they come, to represent you on the international stage? The one that tried to flip the Constitution on it's head?

Look, the U.S.'s foreign policy is in BIG trouble right now and neither candidate is going to help, not while AIPAC and the military complex is running sht.

Nothing you say here has anything to do with what I am asking. You assume things not entered into evidence. I state facts based on the current situation.

The US foreign policy is not set by Kamala right now. You think allowing Israel to be wiped off the map is an option? That's what the entire region wants. Genocide in the other direction. So abandon them for what reason exactly? How is that not the same thing people are upset about happening to the Palestinians? Oh...it is. Oops.

The issue is Bibi overstepping the lines. He is the problem. Trump will not stop him. He openly supports him. Kamala and Biden want a cease fire. Big difference. Ignoring facts doesn't make the issue go away. Not downplaying the atrocities but, Jews are dying too. Or does that not matter?

The biggest part of this mind numbing stance is, if Trump gets elected he not only helps Bibi finish the job, he destroys this country along the way. What does that do for anyone? It is a spiteful approach that begs to question the allegiance of anyone who takes it.

Logic over emotion. No one has done anything to validate that position at all. Cut off nose to spite face. Ridiculous.

I think this post really hits at the problem with the people who say they’re pro Palestian, punishing Harris or Biden in no way helps the Palestians and only helps Trump/Netanyahu. No one can explain to me what happens day one of the Trump Presidency that will be better for Palestians.

Also I wish more people on the left would acknowledge that by asking the U.S. that abandoning Israel could lead to genocide of Israel or back Israel into a corner where they lash out in an even worse way and only Russia or China would be holding them back. There are a lot of enemies of Israel that would consider this a green light and believe me a lot of countries in the Middle East don’t want that.

[HarthorneWingo]

USA will still win, imho. But it will come at a great cost, even for the US. These ME countries, sadly, are used to losing lives in the hundred thousands and millions. And the west deems all those lives as disposable.

America can't stomach thousands of lives, so I'm not sure what their end game here is. If Afghanistan took 20 years + 2 trillion dollars, I don't think a war with Iran will be any better.

Hell, we won't even be able to stomach 5 bucks a gallon for gas. And that's being generous if we go to war with Iran.

The U.S. will never put troops on the ground in Iran. I don't think that the American people will stomach that. That's a suicide mission. Remember the lessons of Vietnam. The VC lost 1.5 million and we "only" lost about 55,000. Many years after that war, Robert McNamara (Sec. of State) met with the lead general of the VC and they spoke. He told McNamara that the U.S. never understood that they were fighting for their land and would've fought to the last man. So, I think we'll get our ass kicked just like we have in all other wars we've fought over the last couple of decades.

There’s a very higher chance of a war with Iran with Trump at the helm than there is with Harris. And what makes you think Trump wouldn’t send troops or use nukes on Iran? I don’t think you understand the danger of someone with zero impulse control, surrounded by other people with zero impulse country with the biggest military arsenal in the world. At that points there’s literally nothing Congress could do to stop a dictator.

There was the U.S. had a path to deescalations with the Iran deal because of Obama and you guys voted in Trump who ripped it up. This is part of what has led to where things are now.

Trust me, I do understand all of the issues involved.

Why can’t Harris - or Walz, for that matter - just simply publicly distance themselves from Biden on Israel?

I’m going wait this out to the end.

[DOT]

Imagine voting for someone endorsed by the KKK lol

I had to look this up. Jesus christ.

Putin has won. I'm voting Harris tomorrow and preparing myself mentally for the worst because I don't think the views expressed on here regarding Stein are in a vacuum.

Not just her, I'm including Trump in that list, he was endorsed by them the last 2 elections

I can say I've never voted for someone endorsed by the KKK. Trump and Stein voters cannot say the same.

[stuporman]

I don't see the option for the meteor...

That would take care of everything, the country, the NY football teams, the Knicks, this forum...in one huge fireball.

I guess that would be 'other', huh.

[HarthorneWingo]

She wants the war to end. She has said as much. Biden policy is tying to get the cease fire talks going as we speak. Trump does not want anything to stop. Those are your options. Where is the disconnect for you? If you vote to help her win you can then have a seat at the table. If he wins you have a seat at the TV screen to watch Bibi continue with no one to stop him.

Are you forgetting the turmoil Trump will cause in the country you live in? Or the consequences for the Ukraine? I have seen you talk about leaving the country if Trump wins. That's your other option. Seems like a weird choice to me but, it's your right. I just wish you could make it make sense to me because, I don't get it.

Both are criminals, Trump and Harris/Biden. The UN, ICC, and many, many humanitarian organizations all agree and so do I. But what do we do?

Wanting Harris and her puppeteers is akin to bringing in the second coming of a Biden administration-type foreign policy? You want Trump who is as John Gotti as they come, to represent you on the international stage? The one that tried to flip the Constitution on it's head?

Look, the U.S.'s foreign policy is in BIG trouble right now and neither candidate is going to help, not while AIPAC and the military complex is running sht.

Nothing you say here has anything to do with what I am asking. You assume things not entered into evidence. I state facts based on the current situation.

The US foreign policy is not set by Kamala right now. You think allowing Israel to be wiped off the map is an option? That's what the entire region wants. Genocide in the other direction. So abandon them for what reason exactly? How is that not the same thing people are upset about happening to the Palestinians? Oh...it is. Oops.

The issue is Bibi overstepping the lines. He is the problem. Trump will not stop him. He openly supports him. Kamala and Biden want a cease fire. Big difference. Ignoring facts doesn't make the issue go away. Not downplaying the atrocities but, Jews are dying too. Or does that not matter?

The biggest part of this mind numbing stance is, if Trump gets elected he not only helps Bibi finish the job, he destroys this country along the way. What does that do for anyone? It is a spiteful approach that begs to question the allegiance of anyone who takes it.

Logic over emotion. No one has done anything to validate that position at all. Cut off nose to spite face. Ridiculous.

Fact: Harris has been asked about the issue many times. Her canned response mimics Biden's position, to wit, (1) Israel has a right to defend itself, (2) we need a ceasefire, (3) aid needs to get to the Palestinians, and (4) we need a two-state solution. That's it. So, yeah, she's put her position on record.

[HarthorneWingo]

Look, the U.S.'s foreign policy is in BIG trouble right now and neither candidate is going to help, not while AIPAC and the military complex is running sht.

I’m struggling with it. It ain’t easy, brother

Yall think somebody within the US leaked the Israel details to Iran?

Seems like some people within know that a war with Iran is a terrible idea.

Of course. Another high level State Department resigned under protest because of this Administration's Israel/Palestine policy.

[HarthorneWingo]

I wouldn't say 40% of this country "really likes Trump". It's probably less than that.

But I guess 46% of the country rather have him over Kamala, who can be viewed as unlikable like Hillary Clinton. But even she managed to rack up 3 million more votes than Donald.

So really, all the fear is in the Electoral College, and this is the only reason this is even "close". I can say without a doubt, that Kamala will get more votes than Trump. I'm betting it could be by a wider margin than 2016, but not as much as 2020.

Just analyzing the electoral map, Trump just looks favored though.

I've never understood Kamala's unpopularity. I understood Hillary's.

I put my hope in the belief that the polls have been wrong before. The so called "Red Wave" of 2022 was more of a red trickle. The polls showed republican, but the result was very different.

Maybe 2022 isn't a good model for 2024, but that's what I'm hoping for.

Bill Maher's 2 cents:

Watch on YouTube

Fck creepy ass Bill Maher. ZioNazi.

[MrDollarBills]

Imagine voting for someone endorsed by the KKK lol

I had to look this up. Jesus christ.

Putin has won. I'm voting Harris tomorrow and preparing myself mentally for the worst because I don't think the views expressed on here regarding Stein are in a vacuum.

Not just her, I'm including Trump in that list, he was endorsed by them the last 2 elections

I can say I've never voted for someone endorsed by the KKK. Trump and Stein voters cannot say the same.

Right. Like that should be a loud warning alarm.

On another note, we now have the 2nd major newspaper in as many days whose owners refused to let their editorial staff endorse Harris (LA Times, now Bezo's WaPo).

You have to question why rich men and violent authoritarians from around the globe are doing everything that they can to get Trump elected.

[MrDollarBills]

I've never understood Kamala's unpopularity. I understood Hillary's.

I put my hope in the belief that the polls have been wrong before. The so called "Red Wave" of 2022 was more of a red trickle. The polls showed republican, but the result was very different.

Maybe 2022 isn't a good model for 2024, but that's what I'm hoping for.

Bill Maher's 2 cents:

Watch on YouTube

Fck creepy ass Bill Maher. ZioNazi.

F*ck Bill Maher.

[MrDollarBills]

Both are criminals, Trump and Harris/Biden. The UN, ICC, and many, many humanitarian organizations all agree and so do I. But what do we do?

Wanting Harris and her puppeteers is akin to bringing in the second coming of a Biden administration-type foreign policy? You want Trump who is as John Gotti as they come, to represent you on the international stage? The one that tried to flip the Constitution on it's head?

Look, the U.S.'s foreign policy is in BIG trouble right now and neither candidate is going to help, not while AIPAC and the military complex is running sht.

Nothing you say here has anything to do with what I am asking. You assume things not entered into evidence. I state facts based on the current situation.

The US foreign policy is not set by Kamala right now. You think allowing Israel to be wiped off the map is an option? That's what the entire region wants. Genocide in the other direction. So abandon them for what reason exactly? How is that not the same thing people are upset about happening to the Palestinians? Oh...it is. Oops.

The issue is Bibi overstepping the lines. He is the problem. Trump will not stop him. He openly supports him. Kamala and Biden want a cease fire. Big difference. Ignoring facts doesn't make the issue go away. Not downplaying the atrocities but, Jews are dying too. Or does that not matter?

The biggest part of this mind numbing stance is, if Trump gets elected he not only helps Bibi finish the job, he destroys this country along the way. What does that do for anyone? It is a spiteful approach that begs to question the allegiance of anyone who takes it.

Logic over emotion. No one has done anything to validate that position at all. Cut off nose to spite face. Ridiculous.

I think this post really hits at the problem with the people who say they’re pro Palestian, punishing Harris or Biden in no way helps the Palestians and only helps Trump/Netanyahu. No one can explain to me what happens day one of the Trump Presidency that will be better for Palestians.

Also I wish more people on the left would acknowledge that by asking the U.S. that abandoning Israel could lead to genocide of Israel or back Israel into a corner where they lash out in an even worse way and only Russia or China would be holding them back. There are a lot of enemies of Israel that would consider this a green light and believe me a lot of countries in the Middle East don’t want that.

This is a highly complicated issue that has spanned decades. Biden does not get a pass here for his decision making and letting Bibi treat him like a bitch, but this stuff isn't so cut and dry and there are consequences for each action or inaction.

The issue is, it seems like people are more concerned with punishing Harris than they are about what actually will happen to the Palestinians if Trump gets back into power, nevermind the blatant disregard for Americans here at home, who will suffer the consequences of a 2nd Trump Presidency.

The point has been raised multiple times in this thread, and unless I missed something, no one who is taking this position of not voting for Harris/sitting out/voting for 3rd party candidates, all which are actions that directly benefit Trump and Bibi, is acknowledging it, and now I'm starting to question why.

Is this really about saving the Palestinians from being completely wiped out, or is this more about punishing Kamala because she hasn't thrown Joe Biden under the bus? Because any action that benefits Trump and Bibi will be ensuring that the Palestinians are as good as dead.

I don't get it.

[MrDollarBills]

Both are criminals, Trump and Harris/Biden. The UN, ICC, and many, many humanitarian organizations all agree and so do I. But what do we do?

Wanting Harris and her puppeteers is akin to bringing in the second coming of a Biden administration-type foreign policy? You want Trump who is as John Gotti as they come, to represent you on the international stage? The one that tried to flip the Constitution on it's head?

Look, the U.S.'s foreign policy is in BIG trouble right now and neither candidate is going to help, not while AIPAC and the military complex is running sht.

Nothing you say here has anything to do with what I am asking. You assume things not entered into evidence. I state facts based on the current situation.

The US foreign policy is not set by Kamala right now. You think allowing Israel to be wiped off the map is an option? That's what the entire region wants. Genocide in the other direction. So abandon them for what reason exactly? How is that not the same thing people are upset about happening to the Palestinians? Oh...it is. Oops.

The issue is Bibi overstepping the lines. He is the problem. Trump will not stop him. He openly supports him. Kamala and Biden want a cease fire. Big difference. Ignoring facts doesn't make the issue go away. Not downplaying the atrocities but, Jews are dying too. Or does that not matter?

The biggest part of this mind numbing stance is, if Trump gets elected he not only helps Bibi finish the job, he destroys this country along the way. What does that do for anyone? It is a spiteful approach that begs to question the allegiance of anyone who takes it.

Logic over emotion. No one has done anything to validate that position at all. Cut off nose to spite face. Ridiculous.

Fact: Harris has been asked about the issue many times. Her canned response mimics Biden's position, to wit, (1) Israel has a right to defend itself, (2) we need a ceasefire, (3) aid needs to get to the Palestinians, and (4) we need a two-state solution. That's it. So, yeah, she's put her position on record.

Question: Are you truly okay with the alternative? Because you and I both know that Trump is not a rational actor and he will give Bibi the okay to wipe the Palestinians out for good, he's said as much.

If punishing Harris for calling for a cease fire and not publicly undercutting Joe is worth what will happen if Trump wins, I really don't know what else to say.

[stuporman]

Some might think they would be abstaining or protest voting because of some nuanced or moral stand and I cannot deny the position of doing so, it is justified in theory. Just be aware that the most vitriolic and cruel people won't have the same qualms about their power to select who they want and will do so enthusiastically.

So by choosing to not vote or weaken your vote by selecting someone who has no chance to win you are effectively handing them additional power to choose who decides the direction of this country for the next 50 years. So I hope your motivation for that decision comforts you in the resulting conditions everyone else will have to live in.

I also am disappointed with the cliche 'lesser of two evils' choice, recognizing that it still is evil but right now there is someone on the edge of regaining the power to use nuclear arms. Who had to be talked out of it twice when they last had the chance but this time will be surrounded by supportive sycophants with an opportunity to do it again.

"We've got them so why can't we use them" is the paraphrased reasoning by this individual. Last time it was supreme court judges but this time it can be much, much worse...'threat to democracy' still present yet put aside for a greater danger since on the edge of all out war in the middle east.

I wish I was joking, or that it was just empty rhetoric to motivate or irrational fearmongering, except it isn't. Both may be evil in many respects but one would unleash an evil that we may not recover from for a very long time. Joking aside, even the meteor would be a better option.

[Stannis]

Fact: Harris has been asked about the issue many times. Her canned response mimics Biden's position, to wit, (1) Israel has a right to defend itself, (2) we need a ceasefire, (3) aid needs to get to the Palestinians, and (4) we need a two-state solution. That's it. So, yeah, she's put her position on record.

Don't forget, they cancelled a Palestinian speaker for the DNC, who was going to endorse Kamala. Just odd, you do that to a Muslim, implying that you don't care about their vote. This is fine in all honestly. It's tough, but I get that you can't please everybody.

However, then you still expect Muslims to support you 100%, which is not ok. Especially while they are getting burned alive and all their lives are now viewed as disposable.