Scottie isn't going to be a #1 option superstar in this league

[Indeed]

Scottie will forever be limited by the fact that he's neither a talented shot creator/scorer nor is he super athletic. His ball handling has not improved, his footwork has not improved, and he doesn't have that wiggle or fast-twitch explosiveness to do anything off the dribble from the perimeter. I was getting optimistic though during the preseason, watching Scottie developing a midrange pull-up game, which would open things up for him tremendously. However, that appeared pretty much absent in the home opener. I wish Scottie would play more in the post, as opposed to initiating from the perimeter. What is the point of doing that same old, double through-the-legs dribble that has virtually no effect on the defender, then trying to bully drive his way into the paint, where he inevitably gets cut off 8-10 feet from the hoop, just to then start backing down his man?? Why not just fight for position in the post without wasting all that time doing nothing nothing by iso dribbling? I hate to say it, but Scottie is basically post-Hawks Boris Diaw if the Suns and Bobcats pretended that he was a future superstar and decided to run the offence through him lol.

He was already playing in the post the last game, and a few isolation against Mobley were not a good one, or see the double with a pass out that missed / reset.

We will definitely need Nash if he is Diaw.

[Indeed]

Those are two different things.
Worth of contract vs market price.

And no, not every rookie is getting a max contract. I don't think Cade Cunningham is getting the same near max contract.

Cade signed a max extension lmao. People complaining about Scotties contract are clueless. He might not end up a bargain like some superstars do but he is 100% worth the max in today's environment

To me, this is even worse than lamenting whether Barnes is #1 option or not. Like I said in earlier post, this is about Masai Ujiri and how he wasted time and didn't set this team up for success in terms of getting another top tier talent, which this team desperately needs to contend again, AND/OR decent depth, which he should've gotten at minimum. Everything else is secondary at most and besides the point.

Sounds like you prefer to trade Barnes for Durrant, maybe that wasn't a bad idea back then.

[kalel123]

Those are two different things.
Worth of contract vs market price.

And no, not every rookie is getting a max contract. I don't think Cade Cunningham is getting the same near max contract.

He is. Not keeping up with news cycle?

And last I checked, you are worth what they are willing to pay you. aka market value. I don't even know what the heck "worth of the contract" means as it's just a thought inside your head that is out of touch with reality IMO. If you are at the level of other guys getting similar money, then you are worth that contract. Scottie Barnes is.

So we give up on Powell, Lowry, VanVleet, Siakam and Anunoby is wrong? They were at their market value, and some how we treat someone with less potential better.

Come again? You wanna learn to write in proper English first? Keep up with news, join the current times in 2024, and pull your head out of whatever deep end you plunged yourself into while you are at it and maybe we can start talking about your problems because clearly, you got lots of it.

[Indeed]

He is. Not keeping up with news cycle?

And last I checked, you are worth what they are willing to pay you. aka market value. I don't even know what the heck "worth of the contract" means as it's just a thought inside your head that is out of touch with reality IMO. If you are at the level of other guys getting similar money, then you are worth that contract. Scottie Barnes is.

So we give up on Powell, Lowry, VanVleet, Siakam and Anunoby is wrong? They were at their market value, and some how we treat someone with less potential better.

Come again? You wanna learn to write in proper English first? Keep up with news, join the current times in 2024, and pull your head out of whatever deep end you plunged yourself into while you are at it and maybe we can start talking about your problems because clearly, you got lots of it.

I don't have a lot of problem, but I think this thread is important, rather than someone who claims to be in 2024 and don't want to discuss this

[nikster]

well, among recent champions and Finals MVPs...Kawhi, Giannis and Joker all did.

Jokic literally won MVP of his pro league before coming to the NBA. Kawhi led his college team in scoring (4ppg more than 2nd on his team).

Fair enough...though if Jokic was such hot stuff coming into the league why was he only drafted 47th?

I guess I was thinking more about how it took all of them anywhere from 5-8 years before they became legit NBA first options. don't think most people would have thought they were capable of it after their 3rd season....my point is people evolve...scottie's efficiency was better than one of those guys and not that much less than the other two in their 3rd years. as always i dispute everybody's confident predictions about the future...nobody really knows...everything is a calculated guess at best...scottie has as much chance to become a future finals MVP as anyone under the age of 25...

Didn't say he was hot stuff, just that he had previous experience as a number 1 option. He dropped for numerous reasons, out of shape, European league etc...

Tho I agree it's too early to rule Scottie out as a number 1 it's incredibly rare to develop that kind of skill set

[Pointgod]

Warned you man about this.

Lol it’s been one game. I don’t buy the Scottie is Giannis hype but it’s been one game my guy.

[mdenny]

This is a needless toxic BS that is missing the point entirely. The point isn't whether Scottie Barnes is a #1 option or not. It's that this team needs at least one more guy that is at or above his level and they need to complement each other. They also need more quality depth obviously. Until that happens, this team will continue to fail whether Barnes is a #1 option or super role player or whatever TF idiots label him. That's the crux of the crossroad this team is at and Ujiri hasn't set it up to succeed, which is why I'm not very optimistic with this core's chances. That's where the focus needs to lie.

The point is probably his worth of the upcoming contract.
Usually you need a dominance force on one end with at least being average on the other end to justify the max contact.

Plenty of guys at his level gets the rookie max in this day and age. Just look at this draft class alone. You are behind the times if you think he's overpaid there. If you think that's just whack, just lament the times we live in. It's the contract that comes after that where these guys will start to be differentiated. If he's still at this level when his rookie max contract is up and he still gets the max somehow, then yeah, there's a cause to get mad if you are the fan of that team that pays out the contract.

Agreed. Whatever one thinks about scotty....there is nothing unreasonable about his contract. There are multiple other rookie extensions that are far more questionable than scotty's. That's just the reality of the NBA now.

[Scase]

I don't understand how anyone who actually watches NBA basketball outside of the Raptors could think Barnes could be a #1 guy.

The threshold for superstardom is ridiculously high and he doesn't have the skill or physical dominance to ever get near those top tier guys. It's been clear for a while.

Anyone living in reality knows that the likelihood of him being a #1 option superstar is pretty low. Is it possible? Sure, but I wouldn't bet my house on it.

Doesn't mean this needs to be rehashed after 1 bad game lol. Just as brilliant as someone bumping this thread after that preseason celtics game where Scottie put up a near 30pt triple double, yet that didn't happen.

[Indeed]

The point is probably his worth of the upcoming contract.
Usually you need a dominance force on one end with at least being average on the other end to justify the max contact.

Plenty of guys at his level gets the rookie max in this day and age. Just look at this draft class alone. You are behind the times if you think he's overpaid there. If you think that's just whack, just lament the times we live in. It's the contract that comes after that where these guys will start to be differentiated. If he's still at this level when his rookie max contract is up and he still gets the max somehow, then yeah, there's a cause to get mad if you are the fan of that team that pays out the contract.

Agreed. Whatever one thinks about scotty....there is nothing unreasonable about his contract. There are multiple other rookie extensions that are far more questionable than scotty's. That's just the reality of the NBA now.

And they will also face this same question, are they worth the near max or going to be a #1 option superstar in this league.

I don't see why this is not a good topic. There are also LaVine, Ben Simmons.

[bluerap23]

People think you need to be the #1 option on offence to be a top 10 NBA player? There are guys on the All-Time top 75 that were not #1 scorers. Not saying Scottie ascends to that height, only that you can absolutely be the best player on a great team without being the #1 scoring option. Now if we can pair him with an elite scorer, than we in good shape.

Who are the recent examples of top 10 NBA players who were not #1 options? Maybe AD, who is multiple levels above Barnes as a defensive player?

What is your definition of recent? Why does it have to be recent?

AD was a number 1 option before LA.

[kalel123]

Plenty of guys at his level gets the rookie max in this day and age. Just look at this draft class alone. You are behind the times if you think he's overpaid there. If you think that's just whack, just lament the times we live in. It's the contract that comes after that where these guys will start to be differentiated. If he's still at this level when his rookie max contract is up and he still gets the max somehow, then yeah, there's a cause to get mad if you are the fan of that team that pays out the contract.

Agreed. Whatever one thinks about scotty....there is nothing unreasonable about his contract. There are multiple other rookie extensions that are far more questionable than scotty's. That's just the reality of the NBA now.

And they will also face this same question, are they worth the near max or going to be a #1 option superstar in this league.

I don't see why this is not a good topic. There are also LaVine, Ben Simmons.

What a stupid stupid comparison. Doesn't even compute. Probably don't even realize what is wrong.

[Indeed]

Agreed. Whatever one thinks about scotty....there is nothing unreasonable about his contract. There are multiple other rookie extensions that are far more questionable than scotty's. That's just the reality of the NBA now.

And they will also face this same question, are they worth the near max or going to be a #1 option superstar in this league.

I don't see why this is not a good topic. There are also LaVine, Ben Simmons.

What a stupid stupid comparison. Doesn't even compute. Probably don't even realize what is wrong.

What a stupid stupid comment. Doesn't even have a point.

[Raps in 4]

Scottie haters in shambles after tonight.

[hype_2004]

One bad opening game and these fools pass judgement, he's a no.1 option and will have the most usage on the team whether you morons like it or not.

[TheAlchemist23]

I don't know what game you guys watched tonight but he hasn't beat the allegations at all. For fs sake he was passing to Jakob to bail him out on the perimeter, and lobbing passes to the rim in late shot clock scenario instead of creating a shot.

[REJECTEDBYCLARK]

I don't know what game you guys watched tonight but he hasn't beat the allegations at all. For fs sake he was passing to Jakob to bail him out on the perimeter, and lobbing passes to the rim in late shot clock scenario instead of creating a shot.

first off the 76ers fielded a crap roster and gave crap effort for 75% of the game

secondly, tony brothers and his crew called one of the most awkward games in recent memory blowing the whistle on everything and sending barnes to the line 13 times which rarely happens - a total of 99 free throws were awarded in regulation

thirdly the raptors, probably jama in particular, gameplanned big time for this game and got scottie to do what he probably should be doing more routinely which is pounding the rock and bullying people closer to the basket

the bottom line is scottie looked more like a banger 4 than a finesse 3 this game and that's why he looked good. he'll probably revert to doing his best impersonation of a skilled wing soon but if he doesn't maybe he could actually become a better overall scorer one day and apply himself to something he could get really good at.

whether that playstyle would cap his 3 ball volume and TS% and reduce his effectiveness in today's NBA i don't know, but the counterargument is that he could become better at drawing contact and getting to the line more and increasing his 2ptfg

just a weird game and shooting 6-23 from deep isn't going to help this team against a properly officiated game vs a decent team

[RoteSchroder]

I don't know what game you guys watched tonight but he hasn't beat the allegations at all. For fs sake he was passing to Jakob to bail him out on the perimeter, and lobbing passes to the rim in late shot clock scenario instead of creating a shot.

I see him more in an AK47 role with a similar projection prior to injury (I think AK47 made the all-star game in his 3-4th year then started dealing with injury issues in the years after)

Scottie's a better scorer than AK47 and has a larger offensive skillset, but relative to the rest of the league, they were at about the same level (both ~30th in scoring)

[Scase]

I don't know what game you guys watched tonight but he hasn't beat the allegations at all. For fs sake he was passing to Jakob to bail him out on the perimeter, and lobbing passes to the rim in late shot clock scenario instead of creating a shot.

I think this has become a thing due to the schemes we are running. Overall Jak is being put into the ball handler role way more than he should, and Scottie has been passing the ball a lot making the hockey assist. He hasn't looked passive, but it seems like he's trying to play the system. He's showed multiple times tonight what happens when he just goes to score, maybe Darko is trying something out, or maybe Scottie is just trying to get his teammates involved.

The ball is being put in Shead/Davions hands way more than it should be, not sure why.

[raptorforlife88]

I don't know what game you guys watched tonight but he hasn't beat the allegations at all. For fs sake he was passing to Jakob to bail him out on the perimeter, and lobbing passes to the rim in late shot clock scenario instead of creating a shot.

I think this has become a thing due to the schemes we are running. Overall Jak is being put into the ball handler role way more than he should, and Scottie has been passing the ball a lot making the hockey assist. He hasn't looked passive, but it seems like he's trying to play the system. He's showed multiple times tonight what happens when he just goes to score, maybe Darko is trying something out, or maybe Scottie is just trying to get his teammates involved.

The ball is being put in Shead/Davions hands way more than it should be, not sure why.

It was frustrating sometimes, but I think the majority of the time it did seem like he was making the right play with the looks the defense was giving him. Lots of hockey assists, lots of passes that led to free throws. It was a very casual 27 points.

I think what makes it look worse in this game is that he was playing with our deep bench guys, and not Quickley or Barrett, where you're not going to be questioning who he's giving it to. He's playing the same way regardless of who he's sharing the court with I think.

[Scase]

I don't know what game you guys watched tonight but he hasn't beat the allegations at all. For fs sake he was passing to Jakob to bail him out on the perimeter, and lobbing passes to the rim in late shot clock scenario instead of creating a shot.

I think this has become a thing due to the schemes we are running. Overall Jak is being put into the ball handler role way more than he should, and Scottie has been passing the ball a lot making the hockey assist. He hasn't looked passive, but it seems like he's trying to play the system. He's showed multiple times tonight what happens when he just goes to score, maybe Darko is trying something out, or maybe Scottie is just trying to get his teammates involved.

The ball is being put in Shead/Davions hands way more than it should be, not sure why.

It was frustrating sometimes, but I think the majority of the time it did seem like he was making the right play with the looks the defense was giving him. Lots of hockey assists, lots of passes that led to free throws. It was a very casual 27 points.

I think what makes it look worse in this game is that he was playing with our deep bench guys, and not Quickley or Barrett, where you're not going to be questioning who he's giving it to. He's playing the same way regardless of who he's sharing the court with I think.

Honestly, if the guys could finish their shots through contact, or could catch a god damn ball sometimes, he'd have had a 27/5/7 game, which no one in their right mind would complain about. Kid put up a ludicrously quiet 27 points, made damn near all the right plays, and people still bitch lol.