Scottie isn't going to be a #1 option superstar in this league

[Vampirate]

I should say, you have no idea how hard it is to find a #1 option superstar, period.

Lowry wasn't it, Derozan wasn't it, Bosh wasn't it, Siakam wasn't it.

We've had a few seasons of Vince and 1 season of Kawhi, that's pretty much it.

[REJECTEDBYCLARK]

I don't know what game you guys watched tonight but he hasn't beat the allegations at all. For fs sake he was passing to Jakob to bail him out on the perimeter, and lobbing passes to the rim in late shot clock scenario instead of creating a shot.

I see him more in an AK47 role with a similar projection prior to injury (I think AK47 made the all-star game in his 3-4th year then started dealing with injury issues in the years after)

Scottie's a better scorer than AK47 and has a larger offensive skillset, but relative to the rest of the league, they were at about the same level (both ~30th in scoring)

In terms of scoring output makes sense but AK got his points in such a different manner. It's a shame because when you talk about HC offense Scottie is clearly best at using his size and touch to score over players closer to hoop but they were dead set on molding him to be a scoring wing and it's obvious he doesn't have the lateral agility or bag to be great in that role (although he is somewhat adequate).

I mentioned years ago that once this decision is made he will develop tendencies that will be hard to just rewire if they decide "nope, it's not working". His approach to isolation scoring in the HC needs to change fast if he wants to be a good scoring option but the reality is that he is fine there and strong enough in other areas of production to still make him a great nba player albeit inconsistent and capable of being exploited for now. It's almost not fair to expect him to be a great wing scorer in the HC because it's just not what he does.

[M3tro]

The 2025 draft has to get us a player that is at minimum a Scottie-level player.

It doesn't matter if he's not a true first option, he's good enough to build with and add to.

[DKB333]

No worries Mogbo got us. All kidding aside I LOVE what I have seen from him so far.

[TheGeneral99]

I should say, you have no idea how hard it is to find a #1 option superstar, period.

Lowry wasn't it, Derozan wasn't it, Bosh wasn't it, Siakam wasn't it.

We've had a few seasons of Vince and 1 season of Kawhi, that's pretty much it.

I think Lowry is criminally underrated. During his prime here every advanced stat pointed him at being a superstar level impact player...he was top 10 every year in Real Plus Minus and Win Shares between 2016 and 2020. Lowry basically had Chris Paul level impact, but both Lowry and Paul were not good #1 options in the playoffs due to their size.

I think it's more of finding a top 5 player...Vince was never a top 5 player. Kawhi was only legitimate MVP level/top 5 player we've ever had.

[Pointgod]

Scottie Pippen Barnes

[Hero]

I'm surprised this poll is so close.

Look at Scotty's level of play and then look at the level of play of Curry, LeBron, Jokic, Kawhi etc. How is it even in the same ballpark?

[Phezmo123]

I'm surprised this poll is so close.

Look at Scotty's level of play and then look at the level of play of Curry, LeBron, Jokic, Kawhi etc. How is it even in the same ballpark?

What if he becomes Giannis level

[manjusaka]

Things he showed in the past two games, and what he had in the past, I believe he’s working on scorning, particularly midrange. It’s far from being a finished product. We never know will he ever be there, but he’s working on it.

[Raps in 4]

I'm surprised this poll is so close.

Look at Scotty's level of play and then look at the level of play of Curry, LeBron, Jokic, Kawhi etc. How is it even in the same ballpark?

Look at Tatum, who just won a title.

He can go off some nights. Other nights his shot is off. And yet other nights he'd rather defer to Brown. Yet he's still a championship-calibre first option and top-10 player.

Scottie doesn't need to be an all-time great to be a successful first option.

[Vampirate]

I'm surprised this poll is so close.

Look at Scotty's level of play and then look at the level of play of Curry, LeBron, Jokic, Kawhi etc. How is it even in the same ballpark?

Look at Tatum, who just won a title.

He can go off some times. Other nights his shot is off. And yet other nights he'd rather defer to Brown. Yet he's still a championship-calibre first option and top-10 player.

Scottie doesn't need to be an all-time great to be a successful first option.

1 step at a time though, first things first he needs to get to the point where he's a back up All Star in the All Star game or better. Not an injury reserve.

Once he hits 2nd All NBA annually in the consideration (1st is probably very difficult to crack) then we can have the Tatum discussions.

[Senbonzakura]

My point with this thread isn’t to say Scottie sucks. It’s to say that this team still could massively benefit from tanking for a superstar since we don’t have one.

[Raps in 4]

My point with this thread isn’t to say Scottie sucks. It’s to say that this team still could massively benefit from tanking for a superstar since we don’t have one.

We would absolutely benefit from a high draft pick, but that pick isn't guaranteed to be a #1 option either. The 2022 draft was great, but none of the guys to come out of it are #1 options. Granted, getting another #2 option to pair with Scottie would also be very welcomed.

I'd argue the odds of Scottie becoming a #1 option are still higher than finding that player in the draft. I'm not saying we shouldn't try, though. We absolutely should, and we should have started two seasons ago.

[Tripod]

Scottie can be our Lowry....2nd most important guy on a championship team regardless how many points he gets a night.

And so far, with still lots of flaws, has shown he can be a 20 point guy with no go to move. And that's why people should relax. Sometimes these things take time. Lowry was not GROAT Lowry for quite some time.

And just remember how much turnover we have had the last 1.5 years. Hell we just played vs Nurse and only 3 current Raps played under Nurse. We are far from a finished team and product....just like Barnes.

People just need to not freak out or over exaggerate over bad games...or great ones. He is going to have both and lots in the middle.

[ishoy123]

I'm surprised this poll is so close.

Look at Scotty's level of play and then look at the level of play of Curry, LeBron, Jokic, Kawhi etc. How is it even in the same ballpark?

Those are generational players who you expect to win dynasties with.

With the right supporting cast and a bit of luck, you can win a ring with a "normal" superstar (ie 04 Pistons).

[Hero]

I'm surprised this poll is so close.

Look at Scotty's level of play and then look at the level of play of Curry, LeBron, Jokic, Kawhi etc. How is it even in the same ballpark?

Those are generational players who you expect to win dynasties with.

With the right supporting cast and a bit of luck, you can win a ring with a "normal" superstar (ie 04 Pistons).

So the one example we have of a team winning a championship with someone the level of Scottie is 20 years ago.
How is this a winning formula? I understand if the goal is just to tread water for now.

[Raps in 4]

I'm surprised this poll is so close.

Look at Scotty's level of play and then look at the level of play of Curry, LeBron, Jokic, Kawhi etc. How is it even in the same ballpark?

Those are generational players who you expect to win dynasties with.

With the right supporting cast and a bit of luck, you can win a ring with a "normal" superstar (ie 04 Pistons).

So the one example we have of a team winning a championship with someone the level of Scottie is 20 years ago.
How is this a winning formula? I understand if the goal is just to tread water for now.

The Celtics last year are another example. Tatum is better than Scottie, obviously, but that's certainly a level Scottie might be able to reach one day. Tatum is nowhere close to a generational talent. A healthy Knicks team could have challenged for a title last year too, and their best player is **** Jalen Brunson. The NBA has way more parity today than at any point previously in its history.

Luka was easily the best player in the finals last year and the Mavericks got smoked by a balanced Celtics roster.

[CPT]

We're going to see if "the new NBA" is as superstar driven as it has been in the past. The last 10-15 years have been dominated by Lebron and Curry, but the last 5 have seen more parity.

Lebron is an outlier, top 5 of all-time at absolute worst, so he was probably going to rack up some championships regardless. IMO the fact that he didn't get more says more about the generation than it does about him, but that's a different discussion.

Curry has somehow managed 4 championships of his own and gotten into top 10-15 all-time discussions himself. The question is, did Golden State win 4 titles because Curry is a top 10-15 all-time player, or is he considered top 10-15 all-time because he won 4 titles? It's definitely a combination of both, but I would lean towards the latter. 15 years ago putting Curry in discussions with Lebron, Kobe, and Duncan would have seemed insane.

Flash forward to present day, and nobody looks ready to be the next guy to take that leap. People barely see Tatum as one of the best players in the league right now, but if the Celtics rattle off 2-3 championships in the next 5 years, he'll probably get a "his turn" MVP and be put in those discussions.

Alternatively, the Celtics could be the next team that is heavily favoured to repeat and just... doesn't.

The whole point of this is to say that there will be a changing of the guard soon. Yeah, Scottie doesn't compare to the superstars of the last generation, because they've had entire careers to build their resumes. Can he be in the mix with the next generation of superstars? I'd probably still lean towards no, but it's possible. It will depend on what the Raptors and those other teams put around them.

Or Wemby could just go on a run and none of this will matter lol.

[Ell Curry]

I would say the answer is yes it's possible, but very unlikely.

You'd likely need at least 4 (East-Level, or 3 West Level) all-stars like the Pistons had or Celtics have now (arguably 5 when KP is healthy) to win one. Heat got to a finals with just Bam and Butler somehow.

So I guess the bare minimum I would buy a team being a legit contender with prime Scottie Barnes as the best player would be something like this, using current NBA players and their levels, and including a theoretical 2027-2029 version of Quickley because I think he's the likeliest player we have to be in a starting 5 if we ever have a contender.

C - Jarrett Allen
PF - Scottie Barnes
SF - Mikal Bridges
SG - Jalen Williams
PG - Quickley

Bench an above average one and a great coach.

That sort of team looks underwhelming, but only Quickley is not a strong defender (and I think he's not outright terrible which a lot of PGs are), there are 4 3pt shooters, rim protection, a roll threat and 3 decent passers if Quickley gets there. 3-4 East fringe level all-stars (assuming Quickley gets there, Bridges fell short in Brooklyn but that team was a mess and if you include his post-trade third of a season there he overall played at that sort of level there). Definitely not as good as the current Celtics, but that's as probably a better team than current Minnesota.

So, if we build a top 5 defensive team with basically a 1-B on the wing (Jalen Williams in this scenario) then yeah, puncher's chance as long as there isn't some great team around and we get a few cracks at it, we'd have a shot.

I really do believe in Barnes, but we're gonna need to get a dominant defensive center (or a quality stretch 5, even rarer) and a bunch of solid offensive talent on the perimeter, an elite bench and a really good coach if he's the #1. The path will be narrow. In some ways Houston might be a better test of this question than us. They have a lot of young talent but probably not a single guy they wouldn't trade for Barnes.

And for example, if you add theoretical prime Barnes to the current Kings instead of Demar, they look pretty interesting, right? Sabonis-Barnes-Murray-Huerter-Monk-Fox is a strong 6, maybe just a Huerter upgrade away on the wing from a really tough playoff out. They were a 46 and 48 win team with Harrison Barnes in that spot. Prime Scottie should be worth an extra 6-7 wins over Harrison, and then you're a 55 win team and basically a contender by definition, just need some wild shooting series or Fox heater or an injury or some ice cold shooting from a better team to win a series you probably shouldn't and get to the finals and be at least competitive there.

[G_Misconduct]

I should say, you have no idea how hard it is to find a #1 option superstar, period.

Lowry wasn't it, Derozan wasn't it, Bosh wasn't it, Siakam wasn't it.

We've had a few seasons of Vince and 1 season of Kawhi, that's pretty much it.

Nailed it, this is exactly it. True #1 options are so much more than play making all stars