Scottie isn't going to be a #1 option superstar in this league

[HangTime]

What are you guys seeing out there?

This is what I'm seeing.

With the all injuries, Darko is dialing up the difficultly level to 12/10.

Little to no spacing, Scottie facilitating more to see who can play later on, when we're more healthy.

Also the more he facilitate now, the easier it'll be later on in the season, because the defence will have to play him for both the pass and scoring option, when we have spacers like Quickley, RJ, Kelly, Ja'kobe.

This actually rally good for him, no matter how bad it may look.

[PushDaRock]

We all know he likely isn't but we don't really have anything to lose in letting him try to be and show us whether he is or isn't.

[JL2002]

We all know he likely isn't but we don't really have anything to lose in letting him try to be and show us whether he is or isn't.

Agreed. Out of the 2021 draft, outside of the top 3, Scottie is definitely the best player with superstar potential available. Out of who we are able to get via draft, trades and free agent, Scottie is the best chance we have. If Giannis can be who he is today, I don't see why Scottie can't be at Giannis level at some point. He has already shown tremendous improvement in his 3 point shot as compared to Pascal who still struggles.

Despite saying all that, if an 'elite scorer' is what you determined to be the "#1 option Superstar in this league", then I can tell you he most likely won't be that. We are a really poor man's Dallas Maverick at this point.

[TravisScott55]

Once RJ and Quick are back the spacing will be better, and Scottie will be better.

[sbsat]

Scottie is no a great shooter or iso scorer op seems like he had a good point here. But i stil think he will be most critical part of offense because of everything else he does

[MEDIC]

I should say, you have no idea how hard it is to find a #1 option superstar, period.

Lowry wasn't it, Derozan wasn't it, Bosh wasn't it, Siakam wasn't it.

We've had a few seasons of Vince and 1 season of Kawhi, that's pretty much it.

I think Lowry is criminally underrated. During his prime here every advanced stat pointed him at being a superstar level impact player...he was top 10 every year in Real Plus Minus and Win Shares between 2016 and 2020. Lowry basically had Chris Paul level impact, but both Lowry and Paul were not good #1 options in the playoffs due to their size.

I think it's more of finding a top 5 player...Vince was never a top 5 player. Kawhi was only legitimate MVP level/top 5 player we've ever had.

Lowry checked all of the boxes for legit franchise player. The only thing he lacked was size.

With his Bball IQ, Work Ethic, Offensive Skill level, competitive fire & defensive capability, he was the closest thing we had to franchise player (aside from Kawhi).

You put Lowry's mind in VC's body & you have a top 10 NBA player of all time.

[sidsid]

The definition most have for this seems to be a guy that takes every shot or top 20 all timer. I don't see Scottie being the latter and the former - for example, Lillard - doesn't sniff **** unless they have talent that's better than them around them. AD and Paul George are superstars, and they won't sniff the top 20.

Jokic could have 4 MVPs by now and is a level above Dirk, who himself won an MVP. This an insane scorer from anywhere against anyone and the thought is still that he "needs a star guard" to finish games. That's not really the case. What any superstar or team needs is a lot of high end talent to contend (the Nuggets may not have enough anymore). KG wasn't going to win anything with his second best player being Sprewell.

But the thing about guys like Jokic and KG is that they stir the drink. These are elite playmakers. We have a 6'8 guy who can bring the ball up the floor with Lowry level playmaking with a spot a 3, can live in the nail/elbow area doing the same thing, while being a poor man's Giannis as a roaming 4 defender who can play the 5 when going small.

We've found the easiest type of franchise player to build around. He's going to need multiple elite level players to play with, which is why we shouldn't have traded for Jak in the Wemby draft and are better off tanking this year by trading Jak as well to get that talent.

[Tacoma]

We all know he likely isn't but we don't really have anything to lose in letting him try to be and show us whether he is or isn't.

Agreed. Out of the 2021 draft, outside of the top 3, Scottie is definitely the best player with superstar potential available. Out of who we are able to get via draft, trades and free agent, Scottie is the best chance we have. If Giannis can be who he is today, I don't see why Scottie can't be at Giannis level at some point. He has already shown tremendous improvement in his 3 point shot as compared to Pascal who still struggles.

Despite saying all that, if an 'elite scorer' is what you determined to be the "#1 option Superstar in this league", then I can tell you he most likely won't be that. We are a really poor man's Dallas Maverick at this point.

Giannis led MIL in scoring and was #1 option and #2 in NBA in points per game last season. If you don't see why Scottie can't be at Giannis level at some point, then why can't he be #1 option at some point?

The answer is Scottie isn't Giannis and it's a poor comparison. Giannis is much taller (4-inch), able to play bully ball because of his strength but he also has much superior lateral movement and explosive power easily to get around defenders. Barnes pretty well plays only bully ball to try to go through you because he isn't close to being as physically gifted to get by you.

Giannis has a determined scorer's mentality with an aggressive "'I'm going to the basket now so get the f**k out of my way" demeanor that you don't (and likely never will) find in Barnes who mostly looks to pass first.

Still, with his skill-set, Scottie could someday become a top 15-20 player but he and Giannis are both mentally and physically very different and I don't see Barnes reaching close to Giannis' Top 5 level at any point because of these differences.

[XTC]

I don't know why this coaching staff is so insistent on playing Barnes with Poeltl. These stats are from last season.

PER36 Barnes with Poeltl
19.4/8.3/6.4

PER36 Barnes without Poeltl
21.3/8.6/6.2

I'm not saying Barnes has been good, but they're not doing him any favors by playing him with Poeltl. They take up the exact same spots on the court. Barnes plays better the closer he is to the basket. The further you take him away, the worst he becomes.

[mtcan]

I don't know why this coaching staff is so insistent on playing Barnes with Poeltl. These stats are from last season.

PER36 Barnes with Poeltl
19.4/8.3/6.4

PER36 Barnes without Poeltl
21.3/8.6/6.2

I'm not saying Barnes has been good, but they're not doing him any favors by playing him with Poeltl. They take up the exact same spots on the court. Barnes plays better the closer he is to the basket. The further you take him away, the worst he becomes.

He had a much easier time getting his points against Philly who outside of Drummond doesn't have a dominant rim protector.

He had trouble against Cleveland's frontcourt. He was avoiding Gobert for much of the first 3 quarters as well. Against Philly he was taking the ball to the basket with ease.

His shooting needs to improve.

[Colbinii]

We all know Barnes isn't going to be a superstar #1 option. It doesn't mean he won't be a very good player but the idea that he will somehow completely transform into a Top 10-15 player in the NBA isn't realistic.

[ItsDanger]

I don't know why this coaching staff is so insistent on playing Barnes with Poeltl. These stats are from last season.

PER36 Barnes with Poeltl
19.4/8.3/6.4

PER36 Barnes without Poeltl
21.3/8.6/6.2

I'm not saying Barnes has been good, but they're not doing him any favors by playing him with Poeltl. They take up the exact same spots on the court. Barnes plays better the closer he is to the basket. The further you take him away, the worst he becomes.

Not a dramatic difference to draw any conclusions from.

[adubmac]

I should say, you have no idea how hard it is to find a #1 option superstar, period.

Lowry wasn't it, Derozan wasn't it, Bosh wasn't it, Siakam wasn't it.

We've had a few seasons of Vince and 1 season of Kawhi, that's pretty much it.

I think Lowry is criminally underrated. During his prime here every advanced stat pointed him at being a superstar level impact player...he was top 10 every year in Real Plus Minus and Win Shares between 2016 and 2020. Lowry basically had Chris Paul level impact, but both Lowry and Paul were not good #1 options in the playoffs due to their size.

I think it's more of finding a top 5 player...Vince was never a top 5 player. Kawhi was only legitimate MVP level/top 5 player we've ever had.

Lowry checked all of the boxes for legit franchise player. The only thing he lacked was size.

With his Bball IQ, Work Ethic, Offensive Skill level, competitive fire & defensive capability, he was the closest thing we had to franchise player (aside from Kawhi).

You put Lowry's mind in VC's body & you have a top 10 NBA player of all time.

Lowry was literally the first player in shot clock era with 9 straight playoff games shooting under 40%, while taking 10 or more shots. So much revisionist history gets romanticized about Lowry because of Kawhi's heroics.

[MEDIC]

I don't know why this coaching staff is so insistent on playing Barnes with Poeltl. These stats are from last season.

PER36 Barnes with Poeltl
19.4/8.3/6.4

PER36 Barnes without Poeltl
21.3/8.6/6.2

I'm not saying Barnes has been good, but they're not doing him any favors by playing him with Poeltl. They take up the exact same spots on the court. Barnes plays better the closer he is to the basket. The further you take him away, the worst he becomes.

He had a much easier time getting his points against Philly who outside of Drummond doesn't have a dominant rim protector.

He had trouble against Cleveland's frontcourt. He was avoiding Gobert for much of the first 3 quarters as well. Against Philly he was taking the ball to the basket with ease.

His shooting needs to improve.

Yeah, I was thinking ideally Scottie should be playing the 3 when we have matchups like that at the 4. Longer, athletic 4's with skill will be a problem for him. We just need a better option at the 4. Could try Boucher.....see how he does.

[MEDIC]

I think Lowry is criminally underrated. During his prime here every advanced stat pointed him at being a superstar level impact player...he was top 10 every year in Real Plus Minus and Win Shares between 2016 and 2020. Lowry basically had Chris Paul level impact, but both Lowry and Paul were not good #1 options in the playoffs due to their size.

I think it's more of finding a top 5 player...Vince was never a top 5 player. Kawhi was only legitimate MVP level/top 5 player we've ever had.

Lowry checked all of the boxes for legit franchise player. The only thing he lacked was size.

With his Bball IQ, Work Ethic, Offensive Skill level, competitive fire & defensive capability, he was the closest thing we had to franchise player (aside from Kawhi).

You put Lowry's mind in VC's body & you have a top 10 NBA player of all time.

Lowry was literally the first player in shot clock era with 9 straight playoff games shooting under 40%, while taking 10 or more shots. So much revisionist history gets romanticized about Lowry because of Kawhi's heroics.

Interesting. Yet we still won the championship. Good thing he is a great defender, Floor General & Leader.

I don't think your stat supports all that much.........other than my point that if he had more size, he would be a GOAT.

[HangTime]

At this point in the season, with all the injuries, it's not about Scottie being the dominant scorer, it's about figuring out who can play with him later on, when everyone is healthy.

Darko just increased the difficulty for Scottie's ability to score, with less spacing, which allows him work on his play making to non-shooters. Again you're trying to see if guy like Ochai, Davion, Shead, Mogbo become better shooters.

When guys start to return, you'll see how much easier it'll be for both his scoring and play making. Defences will have to play him for both more consistently, and since he sees as a passer, it'll make scoring easier for him.

It's pretty simple if you think about it.

[KrazyP]

There actually arent that many true "#1 option superstar" type players in this league.

Looking at the nba landscape over the next 5+ years, who do we have? Edwards, Jokic, SGA, Giannis, Tatum, Wemby, Luka....is there really anybody else that fits the bill who doesnt come with inherent flaws? You could very well tank hard for 5+ years and not land a guy in this tier. This is why its a bit of a mistake have a rebuild strategy soley focused on landing a "#1 guy" and then subsequently nitpicking your best player(s) for not being that guy.

When building the focus should just be on building a strong asset base of young players with good team chemistry and roster balance.

The Raps will get something nice in the upoming draft(s) and continue to build. No need to lose sleep over not having a superstar. I'd target a build like like the Magic. Banchero, Wagner, Suggs are a nice core that compliment each other well and will produce wins as they grow together.

As far as Barnes goes, the question should be can he be a key component of a high level team while making max money. I think the answer is yes.....the things he does well will actually have more impact as the players around him get better and more experienced. There are areas of his game right now that need to improve obviously, give him time.

[TakeYourHeart]

Scottie's biggest issue is he has nothing in his game to gain an advantage over a defender from the perimeter. No quick first step, no elite handles, no pullup 3 threat, bad at getting downhill off a screen, nothing. There's a whole lot of 0 advantages being created for himself and others when he has the ball there. Hitting open cutters is nice and all but when a locked in defense takes that stuff away the struggles become apparent. There's no such thing as playmaking if you can't create an advantage for yourself, he needs to add something to his game that bends the defense and then his passing can shine. Even Gradey, who is drawing hard closeouts and attacking them, is starting to do things that throws the whole defense into rotation.

Now there is something fairly obvious he could do, given his current skillset...mismatch hunting, backing down smaller players and playing out of the post instead of the perimeter. This is by far the best way for Scottie to shift the defense and create advantages, forcing the help/double teams to come. And I have a feeling the team knows this, but they're trying to see if he can develop another part of his game before resorting to this.

[anotherhomer]

Scottie's biggest issue is he has nothing in his game to gain an advantage over a defender from the perimeter. No quick first step, no elite handles, no pullup 3 threat, bad at getting downhill off a screen, nothing. There's a whole lot of 0 advantages being created for himself and others when he has the ball there. Hitting open cutters is nice and all but when a locked in defense takes that stuff away the struggles become apparent. There's no such thing as playmaking if you can't create an advantage for yourself, he needs to add something to his game that bends the defense and then his passing can shine. Even Gradey, who is drawing hard closeouts and attacking them, is starting to do things that throws the whole defense into rotation.

Now there is something fairly obvious he could do, given his current skillset...mismatch hunting, backing down smaller players and playing out of the post instead of the perimeter. This is by far the best way for Scottie to shift the defense and create advantages, forcing the help/double teams to come. And I have a feeling the team knows this, but they're trying to see if he can develop another part of his game before resorting to this.

i have to agree...the last three years, he's been relying on bully ball, but that isn't sustainable....you see that in the wolves game, he tries the mid range game, but later when it isn't working, he falls back to bully ball

I think all of us need to prepare for the fact he's more in the boris diaw, draymond green, aaron gordon type mode...that isn't bad though....a do-it all forward, except for isolating scoring

[Indeed]

Scottie's biggest issue is he has nothing in his game to gain an advantage over a defender from the perimeter. No quick first step, no elite handles, no pullup 3 threat, bad at getting downhill off a screen, nothing. There's a whole lot of 0 advantages being created for himself and others when he has the ball there. Hitting open cutters is nice and all but when a locked in defense takes that stuff away the struggles become apparent. There's no such thing as playmaking if you can't create an advantage for yourself, he needs to add something to his game that bends the defense and then his passing can shine. Even Gradey, who is drawing hard closeouts and attacking them, is starting to do things that throws the whole defense into rotation.

Now there is something fairly obvious he could do, given his current skillset...mismatch hunting, backing down smaller players and playing out of the post instead of the perimeter. This is by far the best way for Scottie to shift the defense and create advantages, forcing the help/double teams to come. And I have a feeling the team knows this, but they're trying to see if he can develop another part of his game before resorting to this.

Agree with you, but opposing teams aren't giving you that opportunity to get back down on.
In the 76ers game, he had a hard time against KJ Martin, who doesn't get back down. Barnes only got that opportunity against Maxey (not sure why Maxey needs to switch when neither Barnes nor Shead can make pull up 3, yet he opts for switching to Barnes). I am unsure I will see he got switch often.
In the Wolves game, Randle or Reid being the major defender, and I don't recall Barnes able to back down those guys. Against Gobert, he doesn't have to quickness, and Gobert just contest his mid-range shot without giving much space.

He definitely needs another part of his game to be more than just a glue guy.