PG Celtics - Bucks Fade

[fansinceforever]

If Bud were a better coach, we would have best the Raptors in the ECF in 2019

And the Cs in 22

You mean when we took them to 7 without Middleton?

[LISTEN2JAZZ]

I think people need to remember we have a non zero chance to win the championship even if other teams are definitely better. Giannis and Dame are absolutely good enough that we can imagine them getting hot in the playoffs, with or without Middleton.

I don’t agree with this mentality that you have to be a legit dynasty or blow it up with nothing in between. Being a lock for the playoffs and having that superstar that gives you a 10% chance to go get to the finals is enough reason to stop with the “trade Giannis” nonsense.

[chonestown]

Team looked old and it was startling seeing Enthusiasm Jackson's live body vibrating alongside his well-trod bredren, but game came down to 3 point shooting more or less, a tale as old as a Georgia sunset.

[BuckFan25226]

If Bud were a better coach, we would have best the Raptors in the ECF in 2019

How was Bud supposed to overcome Giannis clanking free throws(17 of 36 on free throws from Game 3 to Game 6) and Eric Bledsoe turning into a G League bench player??


The Raptors were better. That was prime Kawhi.


We lost the series in game 3 when we went ice cold down the stretch and gave the game away. Bud wasn't the problem.

[Ron Swanson]

We all got a huge reminder tonight of why Bobby was essentially benched in the 2022 playoff series, and why Doc actually has a deserved moniker (unlike a previous coach) of being an inflexible coach who "doesn't make adjustments".

I'd feel better about this effort if we didn't just lose to the Bulls and Nets. Sad.

I like the Doc critiques obviously.

On the Bobby thing, I just can’t go there. The guy has been a massive bargain on the contracts he had. He’s an great instant offense guy off the bench, who can be a minutes eater if there is an injury. He’s worth every penny we pay him. As you said, it’s just up to the coach to find the right spots for him, and for the GM to acquire an athletic defensive big who we can situationally sub-in.

Yes, I don't put much if any of this on Bobby himself. He's been a great Buck throughout his tenure here. Durable, reliable, and a guy that can get you 20/10 on any given night when Giannis needs to sit one out. He's just physically not capable of holding up defensively against most top-tier contenders these days. And the offense/tunnel vision has only gotten worse.

Bud was a coach who always knew where you could hide Bobby, when to yank him in certain matchups, and got him to really buy into being a floor-spacer that opened up the paint for Giannis (don't think it's a coincidence his 3PT attempt rate has cratered these last two seasons). Unshackled from a smart, innovative coach, he's too much of a black hole offensive player who loves his inefficient post-ups and mid-range shots. I'm not diminishing his value to us as a regular season minutes-eater, but I am saying it's probably time to move on. Last night was winnable if we actually went small-ball.

[RogerMurdock]

loves his inefficient post-ups and mid-range shots

It's weird. Whenever Bobby and Khris take mid-rangers, I always expect the ball to go through the hoop. I'm honestly shocked whenever they miss, their mid-range games are so good. (please don't prove me wrong with stats - let me have this worldview)

[Thunder Muscle]

Giannis is the franchise. He's put the team and city on the map. And been loyal to the point of taking less lucrative contracts to stay here. I don't entertain trades for him, unless he determines he wants to move on. He's our Dirk and would like him to retire a Buck.

Now, the other guys on the roster....the coach...the GM......trade/fire away.

And that's a fine viewpoint to have, but there is not a combination of moves you can make with our roster and assets that builds a contender around current Giannis. It literally is not remotely possible right now.

I agree. There is not a combination of moves you can make with our roster and assets that builds a contender around Giannis.

I also agree with PP that Giannis is the franchise that put the team and city on the map and has been loyal. You cant trade him unless he determines he wants to move on.

So, we will not trade Giannis and we will not be contenders in near future. That is what it is. People just need to relax and remember those Redd-Mo years. We still have Giannis and Dame and we will make playoffs. Maybe even win in first round. Hell, we would kill for that in years before Giannis

Kind of agree with this. Pre 2019-ish just wanted to get out of 1st round and then see how things play out. It does feel like we’re back here and it could be alot worse. And honestly its probably best to milk this out as long as possible as a NBA rebuild in MKE likely won’t be kind as we found out 2005-2014 decade.

I agree, cannot trade Giannis unless he requests out. He certainly did not have to comeback here and has. I think if he wants to stay, need to honor that. He is the franchise.

Lillard is probably our best trade asset, but certainly won’t get same value we gave up. Do you just ride it out? Or try to make a sneaky good deal to get draft picks and maybe an un-developed good young player? Probably ride it out for the season. I just don’t love our depth and guys like Lopez just aren’t reliable weapons anymore…or even Middleton b/c he is out so much.

[SirChurros]

Sorry, but basketball is a business and if you get a godfather offer for Giannis, you do it. Especially if the moves you’re making on the fringes aren’t doing anything but spinning the wheels.

[fansinceforever]

We'll get the godfather offer for Giannis. That's not the question.

The question is - will the owners recognize the writing on the wall and move Giannis despite his insane earning potential?

I hate the idea of trading Giannis but I don't see a way out of the mess we've created. We all knew it'd be very difficult for us once the core got old and we start to feel the effects of having no assets. The Giannis asset will also be diminished if he announces he wants out.

It's a tough position to be in.

[ABucksFan]

Is it okay to say Giannis is a problem right now....

[paulpressey25]

He's a playoff assassin. Yeah, he usually coasts through the regular season, but he'll be there when it matters, knocking down 3s while locking dudes up. PGs struggle to get the ball up the floor against, including last year.

The only playoff series he appears to have any impact In was back in 2018 with Toronto. He's gotten minutes the last two years on depleted teams that were blown out in round one. The guy was a good role player journeyman back when he was 26 years old. He's 32 and washed now.

[emunney]

Is it ok to say that if the Bucks had beaten the Celtics at home with the Celtics on the second half of a b2b, the Cs schedule would be central to all discussion of the game?

[emunney]

Sorry, but basketball is a business and if you get a godfather offer for Giannis, you do it. Especially if the moves you’re making on the fringes aren’t doing anything but spinning the wheels.

The Godfather offer for Giannis is like somebody who's arguably as good as Giannis plus something else really really good. Anything else you absolutely can refuse. You keep him until he doesn't want to be here, it really is as simple as that. I can't imagine how 'basketball is a business' justifies moving arguably the best player in the world *who loves our small city* for a collection of abstractions.

[JayMKE]

you trade everybody else before Giannis, simple as that

Jimmy Butler for Dame Lillard, who says no

[CannondaleF400]

Giannis turns 30 in December. The Thunder traded Russell Westbrook at age 30 and he had two really good years after that then fell off. I really hope Giannis can improve his outside game in the next couple years because I fear a Westbrook trajectory with too much reliance on athleticism. It would be really sad to see Giannis move to a different team and I hope he can age gracefully and stay with the Bucks.

[DingleJerry]

Giannis turns 30 in December. The Thunder traded Russell Westbrook at age 30 and he had two really good years after that then fell off. I really hope Giannis can improve his outside game in the next couple years because I fear a Westbrook trajectory with too much reliance on athleticism. It would be really sad to see Giannis move to a different team and I hope he can age gracefully and stay with the Bucks.

He needs to embrace being a big, not a wing. The loss of athleticism is minimized that way. In addition, probably easier to build an offense around him that way. While also increasing the athleticism on the floor since another big can go off.

[FrieAaron]

Reminder - despite major injuries, every team Bud wasn't "good enough" to beat (at what point is it OK to say the players should have been better?)
Ended up making or winning the NBA Finals. Last season was the first time that wasn't true since Jason Kidd.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

we went all in with the jrue trade and it paid off. now years later the entire core stays hurt...is on a serious decline even when they do play....and the coach is gone. were in cap hell with most of our own picks gone. blow it all up. every guy that can bring back youth, upside, picks, or even cap relief send em out. there isnt a guy in the core worth more to what our future needs then they would be somplace else. i dont see what the problem is except waiting around thinking this gets better with the same guys who arent that good anymore.

get a cheap developmental coach with some hardplaying dudes that can shoot and we can be solid again fast. dont forget we play in a league where a peyton pritchard can outplay a giannis any night of the week. the game has changed. stars arent what wins as much as shooting, depth, speed and matchup defense.

if giannis pleads to stay once hes sees this is the way then he stays til the end. if trading him does him a favor then it will us to. its not up to us its up to him once he gets the facts straight of what REALLY needs to happen.

but no more candy ass handling of this situation. no more players controling whats best for this team while they **** around in games when theyre not hurt on the sidelines. we do what teams do now while we can

[chonestown]

you trade everybody else before Giannis, simple as that

Jimmy Butler for Dame Lillard, who says no

The Bucks.

Big drop-off between Rollins and Lillard.imo

[JayMKE]

you trade everybody else before Giannis, simple as that

Jimmy Butler for Dame Lillard, who says no

The Bucks.

Big drop-off between Rollins and Lillard.imo

Defensively? Doubt. We'd just need a guy to be able to move the ball, defend, and hit 3s doesn't matter who. Would have another guy to put on the Jays.