PG: Cavs vs. Knicks: Only 8FGA for KAT?

[stuporman]

This came down to a handful of possessions, a few missed or made shots is the difference, is this context lost on some people? Even as the Knicks were leading in the game you could see how out of sorts they were, hardly 'peaking' in chemistry, so crunch time execution against one of the best defenses wasn't all there.

One team is a core that has been playing together for years the other team been playing together for weeks. Literally 4 players on the roster this opening game that were on it last opening game, a trade transforming the starting unit days before camp opens, while also adding in another to that unit from an earlier off season trade.

It seems most of the rational members grasp this and it's only the agenda driven or emotional who seem to be struggling with this simple concept or just want to use the forum as trauma dump trolling venue. I guess that is fine...every circus needs a few clowns.

[NiceLikeChrist]

feels like Thibs just has no idea how to use Kat and make no mistake about it, he benched Kat twice this game in favor of huk. it wasn't to get Kat a breather, he didn't like how Kat was defending and preferred a traditional big.

For Kat to have an impact he has to be producing on offense. it should not be very complicated either. stop the freelancing and install set plays in the offense. unfortunately we've seen Thibs offense for years so i'm not holding my breath.

just pay attention to any out of bounds or after timeout plays and the success rates. we don't run actual plays.

I feel like I read/saw before that when thibs coached minny that was the time when kat posted up the most in his career. it's continuing again here in 2024. feel like half the time kat touches the ball he's in the post

thibs needs serious work on his offensive schemes and gameplans but I fear that may be asking too much from him. I can't believe we extended him. JJ redick would have us 3-0

[BKlutch]

I don't like this offense much, we're the last year's Suns of the East... in halfcourt, there's 1 pass and then it's this possession your turn, next possession my turn, next possession his turn, between JB, KAT, Mikal, sometimes OG. They just make 1 pass to one of the 3 and it's dribble dribble dribble and shoot/ layup. The only guys really moving the ball are Deuce, Hart basically the rest of the guys but that's only because they don't have the offensive skills or green light JB, KAT, and Mikal have.

The ball movement sucks, only 1 pass + iso, too much dribbling. Right now we're slightly above mid cuz Mikal, JB and KAT are very good/ great scorers, but when they don't light it up, we're not exactly stopping anyone defensively, opposing 4s and 5s just go straight at KAT, and the wing stop has worked below expectations so far... I think we'd be #5 or #4 seed at best if nothing changes.

This is where we dearly miss Divo imo, his shot creation, off ball movement inside and outside the 3 pt create tons of opportunities for himself and his teammates (including JB), his energy, his vocal leadership, are all missed.

---

Btw, I can't go for anyone being a player's fan at the expense of the Knicks. Melo if you wanna root for Randle so bad why not go to Wolves board, or go to Blazers board to root for Ayton? Why you root for all these 2nd tier All Star, INEFFICIENT high volume scorers Randle, Ayton, Melo, Olympic Tatum anyway, who's your 1? and Marbury??

I grieve the loss of Divo, but I don't **** on KAT, I have to root for the guy that's on this team.

I'm sure that given a little time, Mikal and KAT will be able to pass and contribute to the offense more seamlessly. It's a whole new team out there now, not just one player trying to fit in. They also need to try different plays and styles early in the season to see what synergies develop among this group.

[FrozenEnvelope]

Some morning thoughts.

Tough loss at home against a good team that's been together for awhile. Had a nice lead but went cold in that 3rd and 4th and Cavs got in transition and made shots. Garland had a big game and Brunson had an usual poor game where he was missing shot he usually makes and also turned the ball over and took some forced shots. It happens and he will bounce back.

Gotta get KAT going. Cannot have games where Payne takes more shots than him. KAT needs to be more assertive and aggressive.

We also need to take more 3s as a team.

Hukporti's motor is really good. I was so heated when they called that foul on his dunk.

We have a lot of work to do at both ends. It's gonna take some time so expect a .500 record the first 15-20 games.

[BKlutch]

This team kind of sucks. Not that into it. Knicks managed to take a good team and make it mediocre. Maybe next year, after yet another trade.

You of all people should have said we can't make another trade for 17 years.

[robillionaire]

Not loving what I see so far but it’s a new team and it’s only been 3 games. It’s taken about 20 to round into form every year, no different this year with a new team. Confident they will start to iron out the bugs in time

[Capn'O]

the irony of the trades is that we might need a different coach in here to best utilize this new roster…. go figure

This is a very real possibility. I think he has the season. We just extended him. But the fact that our offense hasn't moved towards a motion/perimeter offense with the new personnel is concerning. Both of their bigs were able to roam around all night yesterday.

As NoDope is saying, KAT should be taking 6+ threes per game.

[stuporman]

Get a grip it’s game three …Randle was smooth brained loser whose lack of. defense was only dwarfed by his inability to play in big games….

Randle was a loser
Carmelo was a loser


You don’t win with me first players

Brunson is me first.

Sent from my SM-S9080 using RealGM mobile app

Yes, he takes the blame on himself first, he holds himself accountable first, he criticizes himself first. That's what you mean, right?

[NoDopeOnSundays]

the irony of the trades is that we might need a different coach in here to best utilize this new roster…. go figure

This is a very real possibility. I think he has the season. We just extended him. But the fact that our offense hasn't moved towards a motion/perimeter offense with the new personnel is concerning. Both of their bigs were able to roam around all night yesterday.

As NoDope is saying, KAT should be taking 6+ threes per game.

That man had KAT and Hart on the weak side together while Mikal is posting up

Who does that?

[stuporman]

It's only 3 games family...you havent seen "this team" yet. They need games to develop..

Looks like I'll start watching around game 30 then.

Will you only start posting around game 30, too?

[Chanel Bomber]

Brunson is absolutely a me-first player.

He only gets a pass because he's good at it. Which is fair.

But he will have to adjust his game a bit to get the most out of his partnership with KAT, which would increase our odds of winning games.

Giannis didn't want to make sacrifices with Dame and their partnership has (so far) failed as a result. Kobe made sure to trust and empower Gasol in the post and it made both of them better.

So there is a Brunson question there. Taking responsibility is great but he was groomed to know how to handle the NBA media. We will need to see it in the games. I'm cautiously optimistic he'll make the necessary adjustments.

Yeah before when it was him and Randle it was more you take a turn I take a turn because both players thrive in isolation.

KAT needs Brunson to work off him. He should come into every game getting his guys involved and that will just make the game easier for him down the stretch when he can take over.

This chemistry thing is not an overrated thing. It is very real.

People are going to freak out game in and game out because they only look at the snapshots (often because of the desire to see their team winning in that moment) but not the whole picture.

This tapestry is not finished by a longshot.

If it fails it may be more an indictment on the coaching than the talent. There are so many ways a team with this much talent can be successful.

But it requires players learning how to play with each other, what each other's best roles are and the coaches to establish a system that puts these players in best positions to utilize their skill sets.

It might be a combination of things too . Where KAT is sometimes at the 4 or the 5 depending on matchups. Last night was a time to create open 3s and we barely shot any. We have great 3 point shooters on this team. Until Proven otherwise Thibs is a stud coach when he can run his preferred system of drop coverage and close out on the 3. He may be forced get used to trying things he doesn't like to run as much for the betterment of the team.

In any event they are finding their way right now. Like I said before that historically talented Miami heat team when they assembled in 2010 they started barely over .500 in their first 17 games. People were screaming they were a failure and fire Spoelstra Lol.

Yes it's too early to panic. They are still very much in the experimental phase. Testing out plays, while the players get accustomed to playing together. The coaching staff needs a sample size they currently don't have to make adjustments.

One thing I've noticed with Thibs - and it's not uncommon among basketball coaches - is sometimes he gets attached to an idea and he only pulls the plug after it has demonstrably failed, when the data is undeniable, even as you could see it yielding unsatisfying results much earlier.

This time he will need to show willingness to adapt outside of his comfort zone. I think he has really grown as a coach over the last couple of seasons, especially in the playoffs, but this season will really test him with iHart gone and Mitch injured. I think it's obvious the Knicks will need to employ a more diverse set of defensive schemes with this new personnel. In the immediate term, the offense has to find KAT more.

[stuporman]

Can we all just agree Sims sucks?

[NoDopeOnSundays]

Another one, in addition to the gifs, look where Hart is and look where Mobley is

Read on Twitter

The Celtics had Horford on Hart, the Cavs put Mobley on him, you can hide your big on him if they're mobile. The Celtics will absolutely put Kristaps on him if he's reluctant to shoot and not respected.


The entire 4th quarter till he left the game they were not guarding him.

[DOT]

Another one, in addition to the gifs, look where Hart is and look where Mobley is

Read on Twitter

The Celtics had Horford on Hart, the Cavs put Mobley on him, you can hide your big on him if they're mobile. The Celtics will absolutely put Kristaps on him if he's reluctant to shoot and not respected

We're basically getting the worst of both worlds

We have the size of a modern team but the playstyle of a mid-00s offense

I guarantee if Hart is pulled from the starting lineup, it'll be for Precious or Hukporti and we'll go back to the 2-big system Thibs loves.

[prophet_of_rage]

We are dead last in threes attempted per game with 28.3

Last season without Randle we attempted 36.2, how is it possible they built a roster to take threes and we're dead last.

We built a roster with more catch and shoot three point shooters. We removed a create your own three guy in DiVo and we removed a gravity guy in Randle who caused people to double for the mismatch.

Now we have one guy who gets in the paint off the dribble and you can play him straight up because he's short. So stay home and now it's actually harder to generate 3s. You need guys who can create threes off the dribble if you're going to play Thibs-ball. He should probably go back and watch more GSW offence to see how relocation, cutting and off-ball screening works.

KAT in post ups doesn't work like a Randle drive because there is less chance of a foul and it is more difficult to get the ball into him.

It's tough to even run pindowns because opponents just switch them because everybody is the same size and ballhandling.

[Context]

This chemistry thing is not an overrated thing. It is very real.

People are going to freak out game in and game out because they only look at the snapshots (often because of the desire to see their team winning in that moment) but not the whole picture.

This tapestry is not finished by a longshot.

If it fails it may be more an indictment on the coaching than the talent. There are so many ways a team with this much talent can be successful.

But it requires players learning how to play with each other, what each other's best roles are and the coaches to establish a system that puts these players in best positions to utilize their skill sets.

It might be a combination of things too . Where KAT is sometimes at the 4 or the 5 depending on matchups. Last night was a time to create open 3s and we barely shot any. We have great 3 point shooters on this team. Until Proven otherwise Thibs is a stud coach when he can run his preferred system of drop coverage and close out on the 3. He may be forced get used to trying things he doesn't like to run as much for the betterment of the team.

In any event they are finding their way right now. Like I said before that historically talented Miami heat team when they assembled in 2010 they started barely over .500 in their first 17 games. People were screaming they were a failure and fire Spoelstra Lol.

Love this!

[Chanel Bomber]

Another one, in addition to the gifs, look where Hart is and look where Mobley is

Read on Twitter

The Celtics had Horford on Hart, the Cavs put Mobley on him, you can hide your big on him if they're mobile. The Celtics will absolutely put Kristaps on him if he's reluctant to shoot and not respected.


The entire 4th quarter till he left the game they were not guarding him.

Again, I love Josh Hart, but these clips are pretty damning.

The NBA's evolving fast, and while you can get away with some weaknesses against the more traditional coaches, the more forward-thinking ones will punish you mercilessly for them.

I still believe Hart brings winning intangibles to the table, but we may reach the point where Hart can exclusively play bench minutes or as the screener against elite competition.

It's starting to feel like a Marcus Smart situation. I hope it doesn't prove to be true, but I'm open to that being a possibility.

[3toheadmelo]

Melo still got people on the outside that will crash out for him, watch yourself in the woods

Watch on YouTube

;pp=ygUYZ3VjY2kgbWFuZSBmaXJzdCBkYXkgb3V0

The Sly jackal has evolved into his final form, the snake, much more fitting.

Watch on YouTube

;pp=ygUYZ3VjY2kgbWFuZSBmaXJzdCBkYXkgb3V0

[NoDopeOnSundays]

We are dead last in threes attempted per game with 28.3

Last season without Randle we attempted 36.2, how is it possible they built a roster to take threes and we're dead last.

We built a roster with more catch and shoot three point shooters. We removed a create your own three guy in DiVo and we removed a gravity guy in Randle who caused people to double for the mismatch.

Now we have one guy who gets in the paint off the dribble and you can play him straight up because he's short. So stay home and now it's actually harder to generate 3s. You need guys who can create threes off the dribble if you're going to play Thibs-ball. He should probably go back and watch more GSW offence to see how relocation, cutting and off-ball screening works.

KAT in post ups doesn't work like a Randle drive because there is less chance of a foul and it is more difficult to get the ball into him.

It's tough to even run pindowns because opponents just switch them because everybody is the same size and ballhandling.

We're taking less threes right now than we did when Randle was out, Donte took 9.8 threes as a starter. The guys we brought in should offset the loss of Donte, because we went from having a C that doesn't shoot to having one that does. Mikal took 7.2 threes last year down to 4.7, KAT took 5.3 last year and down to 2.0 with us and OG took 6.0 last year with the Raptors now 4.0 with us. These guys are taking low volume threes because of coaching, almost all of them are either at a career low in PER 36 threes attempted or top 3 lowest, so it's not just the pace.

There was no Randle gravity from Jan to May, and we're taking 8 less per game. We're not seeing any high post passing which is what Tom allowed Ihart to do and helped bolster our offense, KAT can do that with the added threat of the three yet we've seen none of that.

[Tomato Sauce]

Get a grip it’s game three …Randle was smooth brained loser whose lack of. defense was only dwarfed by his inability to play in big games….

Randle was a loser
Carmelo was a loser


You don’t win with me first players

Brunson is me first.

Sent from my SM-S9080 using RealGM mobile app

Yes, he takes the blame on himself first, he holds himself accountable first, he criticizes himself first. That's what you mean, right?

No he means that Brunsons main concern is scoring points and cares more about scoring then he does winning or being a good pg.

Either Thibs needs to sub Brunson early in the first so he can sub him back in with the bench unit so he can do his thing, or Brunson needs to adapt to the team around him and play more of a facilitating type of role.

The more Kat gets involved, the more space and easier shots Brunson has for himself.

Also dude is missing a lot of shots around the rim. He’s gotta finish those if you’re going to drive to the lane contested.