PG: Cavs vs. Knicks: Only 8FGA for KAT?

[whocares1]

Another one, in addition to the gifs, look where Hart is and look where Mobley is

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The Celtics had Horford on Hart, the Cavs put Mobley on him, you can hide your big on him if they're mobile. The Celtics will absolutely put Kristaps on him if he's reluctant to shoot and not respected

We're basically getting the worst of both worlds

We have the size of a modern team but the playstyle of a mid-00s offense

I guarantee if Hart is pulled from the starting lineup, it'll be for Precious or Hukporti and we'll go back to the 2-big system Thibs loves.

Except it’s not quite the same as prior systems because Towns can shoot 3s and Precious seems like he’s more willing to them fly or at least attempt to score on offense. There’s no complete 0 on offense in that lineup. Precious isn’t a good shooter but Hart can barely shoot and passes up open looks himself so would we be losing that much by swapping him with Precious? It also adds some rebounding and could help keep towns out of foul trouble. They may have to give this a shot at some point. Hart can still be a spark off the bench and close games if he’s hot

Josh Hart has 36 points and 23 rebounds in the last two games. He’s not a complete zero on offense. Ofc there are teams sagging off him, that’s why having different lineups and schemes are important. There’s not a single team in the NBA besides maybe Boston that doesn’t have a weakness offensively.

[mpharris36]

We're basically getting the worst of both worlds

We have the size of a modern team but the playstyle of a mid-00s offense

I guarantee if Hart is pulled from the starting lineup, it'll be for Precious or Hukporti and we'll go back to the 2-big system Thibs loves.

Except it’s not quite the same as prior systems because Towns can shoot 3s and Precious seems like he’s more willing to them fly or at least attempt to score on offense. There’s no complete 0 on offense in that lineup. Precious isn’t a good shooter but Hart can barely shoot and passes up open looks himself so would we be losing that much by swapping him with Precious? It also adds some rebounding and could help keep towns out of foul trouble. They may have to give this a shot at some point. Hart can still be a spark off the bench and close games if he’s hot

Josh Hart has 36 points and 23 rebounds in the last two games. He’s not a complete zero on offense. Ofc there are teams sagging off him, that’s why having different lineups and schemes are important. There’s not a single team in the NBA besides maybe Boston that doesn’t have a weakness offensively.

yeah you can have a good offense without 5 out (we are just doing it with a guard/wing player and not a center not really spacing the floor)...the team really just needs to share the ball better. I think they are so use to just getting a shot up and relying on offensive rebounds to save them. Its going to get some getting use to playing alongside a big that can shoot.

So many times they didn't just swing the ball or look his way. Or Brunson breaks down the defense and has eyes on him and forces a tough floater. Like we have good enough talent now to hunt great shots not just good shots.

[mpharris36]

New team, new talent, people feeling each other out. Gotta give Thibs time to coach, but I do agree that the onus is on him to make this work.

him and then brunson (who did show accountability post game). Can't just be tunnel vision to score. Needs to be a a true playmaker and get guys involved...especially early.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

We're basically getting the worst of both worlds

We have the size of a modern team but the playstyle of a mid-00s offense

I guarantee if Hart is pulled from the starting lineup, it'll be for Precious or Hukporti and we'll go back to the 2-big system Thibs loves.

Except it’s not quite the same as prior systems because Towns can shoot 3s and Precious seems like he’s more willing to them fly or at least attempt to score on offense. There’s no complete 0 on offense in that lineup. Precious isn’t a good shooter but Hart can barely shoot and passes up open looks himself so would we be losing that much by swapping him with Precious? It also adds some rebounding and could help keep towns out of foul trouble. They may have to give this a shot at some point. Hart can still be a spark off the bench and close games if he’s hot

Josh Hart has 36 points and 23 rebounds in the last two games. He’s not a complete zero on offense. Ofc there are teams sagging off him, that’s why having different lineups and schemes are important. There’s not a single team in the NBA besides maybe Boston that doesn’t have a weakness offensively.

I don't expect a flawless team, however Josh's weaknesses on offense allows for teams to negate what should be our strength. If you have the right roster you can put a smaller player on KAT and a big on Josh and take away what should be a mismatch with a back line shot blocker who is helping off the poor shooter. This is why the Rockets went ultra small when they had Westbrook, because teams would put their C on him, so they decided that having him and Capella on the floor was basically two centers as far as the defense was concerned so they removed the big entirely. The way the Celtics and Cavs defended him is how he would be guarded if we made it to the ECF because whoever is across from us will have a good coach.

Josh has to be a willing shooter on good volume, he cannot pass up shots just to brick other wide open shots or dribble in on them. Our coach may not be creative enough to get him in spots where we use him like Draymond, that is a high volume three point shooting team with 2 non shooters in their lineup. Teams know how to defend poor shooters who hang out in the corner, they just don't guard them.

[jvsimonetti0514]

Big helping off hart is an issue but I don’t think that’s why we lost. He took the most 3’s out of the starters and hit 40% of them. Looks like we were down 2 when he checked out of the game at the 4 minute mark and the Cavs lead ballooned after that. Still think it’s worth kicking out to him to either attack a close out or him to kick to someone above the break.

We had a 78.6 ORTG in the 4th quarter with Josh on the floor, almost every big defensive play Mobley made in the 4th was because he helped off Josh. They were basically running a soft double at Mikal all 4th quarter, he tried to post up Garland but Mobley came over and Bridges rushed his pickup once he saw him for a turnover.

Another play he just left Hart and got the block on Jalen who blew by LeVert.

Not disputing that there’s issues with people helping off of hart but we scored 3 baskets in the last 30 seconds probably explain some of the difference in offensive ratings. If you exclude those baskets, we only put up 7 points in about 3 1/2 without him on the floor. Plus Hart had the best +\- of all the players that got big minutes in the 4th and had the best defensive rating too. Maybe it would have happened anyways with him on the floor but I don’t think the execution got a whole lot better without him and the Cavs were able to put the game out of reach pretty much the minute he left.

[robillionaire]

We're basically getting the worst of both worlds

We have the size of a modern team but the playstyle of a mid-00s offense

I guarantee if Hart is pulled from the starting lineup, it'll be for Precious or Hukporti and we'll go back to the 2-big system Thibs loves.

Except it’s not quite the same as prior systems because Towns can shoot 3s and Precious seems like he’s more willing to them fly or at least attempt to score on offense. There’s no complete 0 on offense in that lineup. Precious isn’t a good shooter but Hart can barely shoot and passes up open looks himself so would we be losing that much by swapping him with Precious? It also adds some rebounding and could help keep towns out of foul trouble. They may have to give this a shot at some point. Hart can still be a spark off the bench and close games if he’s hot

Josh Hart has 36 points and 23 rebounds in the last two games. He’s not a complete zero on offense. Ofc there are teams sagging off him, that’s why having different lineups and schemes are important. There’s not a single team in the NBA besides maybe Boston that doesn’t have a weakness offensively.

I didn’t mean Hart was a complete zero on offense(although he is often left wide open) but some of the bigs who used to start here in the biglineups to which DOT is referring are. So I was saying how Towns/Precious wouldn’t be the same as those

[NoDopeOnSundays]

Big helping off hart is an issue but I don’t think that’s why we lost. He took the most 3’s out of the starters and hit 40% of them. Looks like we were down 2 when he checked out of the game at the 4 minute mark and the Cavs lead ballooned after that. Still think it’s worth kicking out to him to either attack a close out or him to kick to someone above the break.

We had a 78.6 ORTG in the 4th quarter with Josh on the floor, almost every big defensive play Mobley made in the 4th was because he helped off Josh. They were basically running a soft double at Mikal all 4th quarter, he tried to post up Garland but Mobley came over and Bridges rushed his pickup once he saw him for a turnover.

Another play he just left Hart and got the block on Jalen who blew by LeVert.

Not disputing that there’s issues with people helping off of hart but we scored 3 baskets in the last 30 seconds probably explain some of the difference in offensive ratings. If you exclude those baskets, we only put up 7 points in about 3 1/2 without him on the floor. Plus Hart had the best +\- of all the players that got big minutes in the 4th and had the best defensive rating too. Maybe it would have happened anyways with him on the floor but I don’t think the execution got a whole lot better without him and the Cavs were able to put the game out of reach pretty much the minute he left.

Hart was -44.5 net rating in the 4th, only Mikal was worse because he was trying to guard Garland. He was the biggest issue on offense in the 4th, I posted these gifs earlier.









And the Huk dunk that was wiped off was because Mobley helped off Hart in the corner. These 3 possessions alone, look at the score, look at what Mobley's doing then consider he was doing that all throughout the time Hart was on the court in the 4th. It completely disrupted our offense, our defense gave up 110pts to a team that was averaging 128ppg before playing us, it gave us a chance to win, but our offense was crippled. The game was already over when he left the game, we were out of sync and they found their sea legs.

[TheGreenArrow]

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Kat has to be better defensively!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[djsunyc]

New team, new talent, people feeling each other out. Gotta give Thibs time to coach, but I do agree that the onus is on him to make this work.

if it doesn't work out, the coach is always the first fall guy.

the kat trade changed the identity of the team. i think it's even more pronounced that the team needs a healthy mitchell robinson to regain some of last year's identity in terms of defense, catching lobs above the rim and crashing the o-boards.

long season and who knows how it plays out.

[prophet_of_rage]

Except it’s not quite the same as prior systems because Towns can shoot 3s and Precious seems like he’s more willing to them fly or at least attempt to score on offense. There’s no complete 0 on offense in that lineup. Precious isn’t a good shooter but Hart can barely shoot and passes up open looks himself so would we be losing that much by swapping him with Precious? It also adds some rebounding and could help keep towns out of foul trouble. They may have to give this a shot at some point. Hart can still be a spark off the bench and close games if he’s hot

Josh Hart has 36 points and 23 rebounds in the last two games. He’s not a complete zero on offense. Ofc there are teams sagging off him, that’s why having different lineups and schemes are important. There’s not a single team in the NBA besides maybe Boston that doesn’t have a weakness offensively.

I don't expect a flawless team, however Josh's weaknesses on offense allows for teams to negate what should be our strength. If you have the right roster you can put a smaller player on KAT and a big on Josh and take away what should be a mismatch with a back line shot blocker who is helping off the poor shooter. This is why the Rockets went ultra small when they had Westbrook, because teams would put their C on him, so they decided that having him and Capella on the floor was basically two centers as far as the defense was concerned so they removed the big entirely. The way the Celtics and Cavs defended him is how he would be guarded if we made it to the ECF because whoever is across from us will have a good coach.

Josh has to be a willing shooter on good volume, he cannot pass up shots just to brick other wide open shots or dribble in on them. Our coach may not be creative enough to get him in spots where we use him like Draymond, that is a high volume three point shooting team with 2 non shooters in their lineup. Teams know how to defend poor shooters who hang out in the corner, they just don't guard them.

Josh should be put in the Randle role. Hey Josh you rebound, keep it, push and drive into the paint. You get the paint touch and spray or you finish. If Brunson brings the ball up you play on the same side as him and set the pick for him to get to the middle and then pop out for the stampede catch. If Brunson kicks out to the opposite side then set a pindown for Brunson to zipper up back to the top.

You just keep your defender engaged in motion.

[j4remi]

They went away from it because the Cavs started to abandon Hart in the corner. Mobley started helping off him and blowing up plays because they don't view Hart as much of a threat.




Look at where Mobley is, and because we have KAT in the dunkers spot for some unknown reason Allen can cover KAT and Hart if the ball is swung there while Mobley can relocate back to KAT. The spacing there and floor balance is just gross. KAT should be top of the three point line which would give Mikal more room, why the **** would you post up your guard with your C on the opposite block when he can shoot threes

I'll throw Towns a bone on this one. I think he's anticipating the pass to Hart and pre-setting a screen for the pass. But the passing window is super tight because Levert is pretty far off Brunson. OG mighta been able to engage Levert by setting a screen for Brunson, but that's I'm reaching on top of reaching at this point.

I categorize this is an example where chemistry will build. They can reset that spacing or react to that kinda hard double-team in a bunch of ways. They'll figure out the actions that work in the film room, and hopefully these become open looks from three.

[j4remi]

Watching KAT get scored on for like 5 mins in the 3rd wasn't fun. He's fast enough and strong enough to handle Mobley and yet Mobley just scored on him at will. Was very odd to watch him let Mobley get position 1 dribble away from the basket, get an entry pass, and turn and score. It was like he didn't know how to defend a post player.

Yeah, he just didn't seem engaged enough for portions of the game. Cleveland beat New York inside-out, not vice versa. Mobley got cooking and then Garland got a lot of open looks as a result of the Knicks compensating.

I'd have liked to see Hukporti paired with KAT rather than one or the other.

[Capn'O]

Josh Hart has 36 points and 23 rebounds in the last two games. He’s not a complete zero on offense. Ofc there are teams sagging off him, that’s why having different lineups and schemes are important. There’s not a single team in the NBA besides maybe Boston that doesn’t have a weakness offensively.

I don't expect a flawless team, however Josh's weaknesses on offense allows for teams to negate what should be our strength. If you have the right roster you can put a smaller player on KAT and a big on Josh and take away what should be a mismatch with a back line shot blocker who is helping off the poor shooter. This is why the Rockets went ultra small when they had Westbrook, because teams would put their C on him, so they decided that having him and Capella on the floor was basically two centers as far as the defense was concerned so they removed the big entirely. The way the Celtics and Cavs defended him is how he would be guarded if we made it to the ECF because whoever is across from us will have a good coach.

Josh has to be a willing shooter on good volume, he cannot pass up shots just to brick other wide open shots or dribble in on them. Our coach may not be creative enough to get him in spots where we use him like Draymond, that is a high volume three point shooting team with 2 non shooters in their lineup. Teams know how to defend poor shooters who hang out in the corner, they just don't guard them.

Josh should be put in the Randle role. Hey Josh you rebound, keep it, push and drive into the paint. You get the paint touch and spray or you finish. If Brunson brings the ball up you play on the same side as him and set the pick for him to get to the middle and then pop out for the stampede catch. If Brunson kicks out to the opposite side then set a pindown for Brunson to zipper up back to the top.

You just keep your defender engaged in motion.

The challenge there is that he doesn't command the same sort of defensive attention in that role. Randle gets at least full attention and a hedger. Often double. It could be an option (same same Mikal) but we can't spam it like we did with Randle.

[HEZI]

Starting lineup really just needs a sniper at the 2. They are doing a great job attacking inside but do still need that extra floor spacer

Bench needs some work

[TheGreenArrow]

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Everybody Sees it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thibs needs to be better!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Reign23]

Just watched the game and this pisses me off.
We have so many options on the floor. Why do Brunson have to go slow-mo-one-on-one every single time when he has an off night like this?

[DaGawd]

Just watched the game and this pisses me off.
We have so many options on the floor. Why do Brunson have to go slow-mo-one-on-one every single time when he has an off night like this?

he’s definitely gonna have to learn to be more of a point guard especially in situations where his shot is off. we have options now

[3toheadmelo]

Here's part of the prpblem. When a poster expresses concerns or unhappiness about the team now they get attacked by the homer instead of debating basketball. This causes the poster to double dpwn and retaliate with celebratory posts when the homer fans who attacked the poster were wrong even for a moment.



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There’s a very few people here that are willing to debate with me versus the majority who are just attacking and trolling. I just find it funny how the people who spammed the threads with Randle hate for years think they’re some great people but if someone criticized KAT or the team you’re a bad guy.

This is why sham doesn’t post anymore. He said you can’t say anything bad about the team anymore or you’ll get attacked and labeled as a “hater”. It sucks to see this place being run with extreme homers now and no one is stopping them. I’m gonna lurk for now cause this place is a massive mess.

This is like Jordan retiring for baseball, the game still needs you.



sham is just fronting, he'll come back when Mitch is back and will do his passive aggressive hating like normal, his act is transparent. Just like he left when we didn't get Donovan.

Sorry fam but this has been going on for too long. Stans of Frank, RJ, Obi and now KAT would constantly attack us if anyone said a bad thing about those guys and no one does anything about it. It’s incredibly biased around here. So I’m just gonna lurk until I see some changes around here cause this board is in bad shape right now. Peace bredren.

[stuporman]

Hart does so much for this team positively that it's a shame his 3pt shooting makes him a liability at times. I have a hard time criticizing him because of how much he does, but dangit, he kills the spacing just like a rim running center does. Although, he's so important to rebounding, it's noticeable when he's off the floor.

I did see some mention Huk mins killed the Knicks but I can't help but notice of the time he was on the floor it was with Payne for almost all of it so, yea. His first match up against quality NBA level big men and it wasn't great but it wasn't terrible either, he looked ok, he can improve from this on.

It also appeared as if there was too much thinking on offense, like they were trying to figure out how to get everyone involved instead of just let the natural flow of ball movement find the open guy. That being said it could have found KAT more often because they need his shooting to open the floor.

The Cavs are one of the toughest to spread out because they have two 7 footers who defend the rim exceptionally well. Which means a team has to drag both of them out to the top of the arc to create that space. If one of their guys is in a corner, they can still get to the rim to protect because of their length.

[dakomish23]

Kenny Atkinson is a helluva coach. He always unlocks guys. You could see how different Mitchell and Garland are playing off each other plus the concerted effort to get Mobley more involved.