PG Celtics - Bucks Fade

[ShootingtheJ]

He's a playoff assassin. Yeah, he usually coasts through the regular season, but he'll be there when it matters, knocking down 3s while locking dudes up. PGs struggle to get the ball up the floor against, including last year.

The only playoff series he appears to have any impact In was back in 2018 with Toronto. He's gotten minutes the last two years on depleted teams that were blown out in round one. The guy was a good role player journeyman back when he was 26 years old. He's 32 and washed now.

Massively inaccurate.

Is his series with Atlanta, he played 27 mpg, and the Hawks were 47 points /100 better with him on the floor. They absolutely rolled Miami when he played, but when he left the game the Trae/ Murray combo gave the series away. Defense matters, as does his lethal playoff 3 point shooting.

[MissKhriddleton]

Time to accept the fact that Giannis is a low IQ, coach killer who either refuses or cannot adapt his game in order to help the team win. Horst, Bud, Griff, Doc, Jrue, Dame, Kobe - it’s all irrelevant.

Thank god the stars aligned in 2021.

[ampd]

Can't help but wonder if Adrian Griffin, whose team failed the eye test but was 30-13, could have managed to go slightly under .500 the rest of the way.

[Matches Malone]

Can't help but wonder if Adrian Griffin, whose team failed the eye test but was 30-13, could have managed to go slightly under .500 the rest of the way.

It seemed like there was more than just x's and o's with Griffin that eventually led to his demise, but I often wonder what our team would have looked like if Horst never moved Allen/Jrue and moved on from Brook and put Giannis at center. That aggressive trapping defense he was trying to achieve could have worked if he had better fitting pieces.

[Thunder Muscle]

Can't help but wonder if Adrian Griffin, whose team failed the eye test but was 30-13, could have managed to go slightly under .500 the rest of the way.

At least he’ll always have the best win % in Bucks history and 30 years from now kids will wonder why he was ever fired.

[Ron Swanson]

The Griffin/Nurse gimmicky defense didn't even work in Toronto those last 3-years when they had the perfect personnel for it. It wouldn't have worked here just because of Jrue. The only referendum we have to entertain on the Griffin firing is whether we should have just rolled with Prunty the rest of the season. Sure, maybe from a PR perspective it would have been tough, but.....we then could have hired Atkinson this offseason instead of Cleveland. It could have been us...

[paulpressey25]

It seemed like there was more than just x's and o's with Griffin that eventually led to his demise, but I often wonder what our team would have looked like if Horst never moved Allen/Jrue and moved on from Brook and put Giannis at center. That aggressive trapping defense he was trying to achieve could have worked if he had better fitting pieces.

As I air grievances here over the past couple days, need to always remind myself that:

1) Giannis doesn't want to play center
2) Giannis wanted Bud out and Griff in
3) Presumably Giannis wanted Dame

And because we cater to what Giannis feels strongly about, Giannis feels like he's a big part of the organization and thus signs extensions and is generally happy here.

But now we're coming to that fork in the road, where the personnel and coaching aren't working. The question will be how much Giannis is willing to adapt to less usage. more center play and more Lillard. We could arguably deal Brook for a damn good player right now, if Giannis agreed to start at center.

[yannisk]

Time to accept the fact that Giannis is a low IQ, coach killer who either refuses or cannot adapt his game in order to help the team win. Horst, Bud, Griff, Doc, Jrue, Dame, Kobe - it’s all irrelevant.

Thank god the stars aligned in 2021.

The other way to look at it as that he won with Middleton as his number two a feat not managed by Magic, Bird, Lebron, Jordan, Kareem, Shaq etc

only Hakeem and Dirk won with less star power

[yannisk]

But now we're coming to that fork in the road, where the personnel and coaching aren't working. The question will be how much Giannis is willing to adapt to less usage. more center play and more Lillard. We could arguably deal Brook for a damn good player right now, if Giannis agreed to start at center.

I don't think Giannis can be a full time center he will get pushed around by the Zubac's and Vucevic of the league and will get completely annihilated by Embiid and Jokic. If you trade a Brook anyway you will need a big back or are you going to only have Giannis and Portis

[mattg]

We're currently a -12.6 net-rating team with Giannis on the court and a +14.8 when he's off the court. It almost defies logic lol.

It actually perfectly matches the eye test. Giannis is straight up awful right now. Everyone here should be in 100% agreement on that and anyone who isn't just is being disingenuous or are blinded by their love of Giannis. He's flat out **** terrible.

I've said this a bunch of times over the last few months and not a single poster has been able to provide me the answer yet. What is the dream lineup that works under the salary cap that you build around Giannis that contends right now? Just take players from whatever teams and put them together. I legitimately do not think you can create a contender around Giannis that is salary cap legal in today's NBA and it's entirely because Giannis isn't close to good enough to lead a team to winning basketball anymore because Giannis doesn't play winning basketball.

[ampd]

Can't help but wonder if Adrian Griffin, whose team failed the eye test but was 30-13, could have managed to go slightly under .500 the rest of the way.

It seemed like there was more than just x's and o's with Griffin that eventually led to his demise, but I often wonder what our team would have looked like if Horst never moved Allen/Jrue and moved on from Brook and put Giannis at center. That aggressive trapping defense he was trying to achieve could have worked if he had better fitting pieces.

I don't think we should have kept Griffin; there were obviously locker room problems, and gimmicky defenses have a way of collapsing once the league takes a look at them and decides to do anything to scheme against them. At the same time I feel like almost any coach that wouldn't be immediately laughed out of an NBA locker room could coach this roster to a .500 finish and outside the home court playoff seeds. Doc has improved how this team looks, but we've been a lot worse on the scoreboard.

We can talk about whether Giannis would be better as a Center, but even given the constraint Giannis never plays anything but the 4, you still can't tell me this is a roster that should hover around .500 and struggle with bad teams.

That said I don't know where we go from here. There aren't really any assets to trade, we're out of picks for the foreseeable future, there are no young pieces, it would cost a fortune to fire Doc, and we can't keep our best 3 players on the court at the same time. We pretty much just have to hope things come together with what we've got and everyone gets healthy for the playoffs.

[DingleJerry]

He's 7'0 265 lbs of pure muscle. He can play center. Especially in the softest, least physical, least down low banging version of the NBA that there's ever been

[Ron Swanson]

We're currently a -12.6 net-rating team with Giannis on the court and a +14.8 when he's off the court. It almost defies logic lol.

It actually perfectly matches the eye test. Giannis is straight up awful right now. Everyone here should be in 100% agreement on that and anyone who isn't just is being disingenuous or are blinded by their love of Giannis. He's flat out **** terrible.

I've said this a bunch of times over the last few months and not a single poster has been able to provide me the answer yet. What is the dream lineup that works under the salary cap that you build around Giannis that contends right now? Just take players from whatever teams and put them together. I legitimately do not think you can create a contender around Giannis that is salary cap legal in today's NBA and it's entirely because Giannis isn't close to good enough to lead a team to winning basketball anymore because Giannis doesn't play winning basketball.

[mattg]

We're currently a -12.6 net-rating team with Giannis on the court and a +14.8 when he's off the court. It almost defies logic lol.

It actually perfectly matches the eye test. Giannis is straight up awful right now. Everyone here should be in 100% agreement on that and anyone who isn't just is being disingenuous or are blinded by their love of Giannis. He's flat out **** terrible.

I've said this a bunch of times over the last few months and not a single poster has been able to provide me the answer yet. What is the dream lineup that works under the salary cap that you build around Giannis that contends right now? Just take players from whatever teams and put them together. I legitimately do not think you can create a contender around Giannis that is salary cap legal in today's NBA and it's entirely because Giannis isn't close to good enough to lead a team to winning basketball anymore because Giannis doesn't play winning basketball.

Then suggest the lineup. I've been asking this question for months and every time someone posts a reaction like that they can't even suggest the other 4 players to start around Giannis.

[Ron Swanson]

Settle down dude. Pretty much everyone's acknowledging that Giannis has played like ass so far this season. He also didn't turn into Ben Simmons overnight.

[mattg]

Settle down dude. Pretty much everyone's acknowledging that Giannis has played like ass so far this season. He also didn't turn into Ben Simmons overnight.

You're missing the point, this isn't remotely new at all. Also haven't remotely compared him to Ben Simmons in any way, so that's just stupid.

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=2374445&p=113085248&hilit=lineup#p113084975
https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=2357992&p=111482593&hilit=lineup#p111482593

Been saying it since last year mid season and not a single person has even been able to post 1 theoretical contending lineup led by Giannis. So I will continue asking it until people pull their head out of the sand.

[emunney]

We're currently a -12.6 net-rating team with Giannis on the court and a +14.8 when he's off the court. It almost defies logic lol.

It actually perfectly matches the eye test. Giannis is straight up awful right now. Everyone here should be in 100% agreement on that and anyone who isn't just is being disingenuous or are blinded by their love of Giannis. He's flat out **** terrible.

I've said this a bunch of times over the last few months and not a single poster has been able to provide me the answer yet. What is the dream lineup that works under the salary cap that you build around Giannis that contends right now? Just take players from whatever teams and put them together. I legitimately do not think you can create a contender around Giannis that is salary cap legal in today's NBA and it's entirely because Giannis isn't close to good enough to lead a team to winning basketball anymore because Giannis doesn't play winning basketball.

DEBATE ME

[DingleJerry]

I think it would be very easy especially with the flexibility of the nba cap rules. Here's the easiest, swap him for Porzingis and salary filler like Horford.

[emunney]

I demand one of you guys do a bunch of work or else I will have to assume I am a genius

[emunney]

Settle down dude. Pretty much everyone's acknowledging that Giannis has played like ass so far this season. He also didn't turn into Ben Simmons overnight.

You're missing the point, this isn't remotely new at all. Also haven't remotely compared him to Ben Simmons in any way, so that's just stupid.

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=2374445&p=113085248&hilit=lineup#p113084975
https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=2357992&p=111482593&hilit=lineup#p111482593

Been saying it since last year mid season and not a single person has even been able to post 1 theoretical contending lineup led by Giannis. So I will continue asking it until people pull their head out of the sand.

Brook
Giannis
Khris
Trent
Dame

You're welcome.