Cooper Flagg

[tsherkin]

Seems like a tweener, not a true wing.

is there such a thing as a tweener anymore?

everyone's the same

I know what people mean when saying tweener, but in my cannon, tweener is always negative, because tweener is someone who is stuck between positions, but can't play any position well. Some sort of Hybrid is probably a better term to describe Flagg, since as I say, tweener is by definition a bust, at least thats how I see the term.

But yes, in todays world, where Tatum is second biggest guy on court, or a ''power forward'', and he is probably bigger and more powerish than average Power forward nowadays, there is really no such thing as ''a good tweener''. All these forwards are tweeners, or rather ''versatile''.

I guess the point is that there no longer really exists the environment where a 6'7 PF is a problem against most teams. You see centers near that size, and unless you're playing the Nuggets or another squad with a legit 5 who can hurt you, that's just the state of affairs. Nellie Ball has become the norm. Until teams get themselves some bigs, as we've seen still works.

The trick is to find a niche and role which works, and that's quite possible as long as we break away from the very, very archaic position labels and the roles they imply, you know?

[12footrim]

Watching the exhibition game. He look a bit smaller than expected. Not really super impactful defensively in the bit I’ve seen.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

I wrote about this months ago after a CBS poll of 100 coaches voted him the best player in college basketball by a landslide. He received nine times as many votes as Johni Broome, and nearly every outlet has placed him as the top one or two players in college basketball since. In my opinion, this is ridiculous.

https://theresourcenexus.com/flagg-tops-coaches-poll/

This has nothing to do with his long-term NBA potential, but anyone expecting a 205-lb, 17-year-old post tweener who averaged 16 PPG and 7.5 RPG, 3.8APG in high school to dominate the current COVID-era, super-senior version of college basketball—where most players are 23, and are staying longer thanks to NIL, and all the top mid major talent is consolidated in the Power 5—needs to reassess. Top freshmen in this era have underperformed, as KenPom data shows; there has been about a 77% reduction in high-impact Fr, and the last truly impactful top 10 player Miller, was 20 years old, not 17.

While people may argue he was on a great high school team, he didn’t even outscore or outrebound a player like D. Queen. If you are the "best HS prospect since LeBron" what you can't be expected outscore and rebound your teammate? Now, he’s expected to roll into college basketball and dominate? Do we really think if you put last years Johni Broome, on that same Montverde team, would have only averaged 16 PPG, 7.5 RPG, and 2.7 BPG on a 62% TS against high schoolers when he did more than that in the SEC? For perspective, the last seven National POY averaged 22.2 PPG, 10.7 RPG, 1.7 APG, with a 36.83 PER and 0.646 TS%. Good luck with Flagg doing that.

Here’s a look at highly ranked Montverde SF/PFs since NIL has consolidated top talent.



You only have to go back a couple of years to see another #1 player from Montverde who averaged 16.5 PPG, 5.0 RPG, and 3.5 APG before playing under Scheyer at Duke that was overrated. The success rate for players in this position has been spotty at best. Even Scottie Barnes Montverde guy, who came before NIL, posted only 10.3 PPG, 4.0 RPG, and 4.1 APG in college and even that was in a year with no crowds and players missing games etc. This is a stronger more consolidated talent version of CBB than ever.

[Biff]

Watching the exhibition game. He look a bit smaller than expected. Not really super impactful defensively in the bit I’ve seen.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

I wrote about this months ago after a CBS poll of 100 coaches voted him the best player in college basketball by a landslide. He received nine times as many votes as Johni Broome, and nearly every outlet has placed him as the top one or two players in college basketball since. In my opinion, this is ridiculous.

https://theresourcenexus.com/flagg-tops-coaches-poll/

This has nothing to do with his long-term NBA potential, but anyone expecting a 205-lb, 17-year-old post tweener who averaged 16 PPG and 7.5 RPG, 3.8APG in high school to dominate the current COVID-era, super-senior version of college basketball—where most players are 23, and are staying longer thanks to NIL, and all the top mid major talent is consolidated in the Power 5—needs to reassess. Top freshmen in this era have underperformed, as KenPom data shows; there has been about a 77% reduction in high-impact Fr, and the last truly impactful top 10 player Miller, was 20 years old, not 17.

While people may argue he was on a great high school team, he didn’t even outscore or outrebound a player like D. Queen. If you are the "best HS prospect since LeBron" what you can't be expected outscore and rebound your teammate? Now, he’s expected to roll into college basketball and dominate? Do we really think if you put last years Johni Broome, on that same Montverde team, would have only averaged 16 PPG, 7.5 RPG, and 2.7 BPG on a 62% TS against high schoolers when he did more than that in the SEC? For perspective, the last seven National POY averaged 22.2 PPG, 10.7 RPG, 1.7 APG, with a 36.83 PER and 0.646 TS%. Good luck with Flagg doing that.

Here’s a look at highly ranked Montverde SF/PFs since NIL has consolidated top talent.



You only have to go back a couple of years to see another #1 player from Montverde who averaged 16.5 PPG, 5.0 RPG, and 3.5 APG before playing under Scheyer at Duke that was overrated. The success rate for players in this position has been spotty at best. Even Scottie Barnes Montverde guy, who came before NIL, posted only 10.3 PPG, 4.0 RPG, and 4.1 APG in college and even that was in a year with no crowds and players missing games etc. This is a stronger more consolidated talent version of CBB than ever.

I think a lot of what they're basing it on is how well he played this summer vs team USA. He wasn't dominant but he looked like he belonged on the court with those guys. Would Broome?

[sikma42]

Watching the exhibition game. He look a bit smaller than expected. Not really super impactful defensively in the bit I’ve seen.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

I wrote about this months ago after a CBS poll of 100 coaches voted him the best player in college basketball by a landslide. He received nine times as many votes as Johni Broome, and nearly every outlet has placed him as the top one or two players in college basketball since. In my opinion, this is ridiculous.

https://theresourcenexus.com/flagg-tops-coaches-poll/

This has nothing to do with his long-term NBA potential, but anyone expecting a 205-lb, 17-year-old post tweener who averaged 16 PPG and 7.5 RPG, 3.8APG in high school to dominate the current COVID-era, super-senior version of college basketball—where most players are 23, and are staying longer thanks to NIL, and all the top mid major talent is consolidated in the Power 5—needs to reassess. Top freshmen in this era have underperformed, as KenPom data shows; there has been about a 77% reduction in high-impact Fr, and the last truly impactful top 10 player Miller, was 20 years old, not 17.

While people may argue he was on a great high school team, he didn’t even outscore or outrebound a player like D. Queen. If you are the "best HS prospect since LeBron" what you can't be expected outscore and rebound your teammate? Now, he’s expected to roll into college basketball and dominate? Do we really think if you put last years Johni Broome, on that same Montverde team, would have only averaged 16 PPG, 7.5 RPG, and 2.7 BPG on a 62% TS against high schoolers when he did more than that in the SEC? For perspective, the last seven National POY averaged 22.2 PPG, 10.7 RPG, 1.7 APG, with a 36.83 PER and 0.646 TS%. Good luck with Flagg doing that.

Here’s a look at highly ranked Montverde SF/PFs since NIL has consolidated top talent.



You only have to go back a couple of years to see another #1 player from Montverde who averaged 16.5 PPG, 5.0 RPG, and 3.5 APG before playing under Scheyer at Duke that was overrated. The success rate for players in this position has been spotty at best. Even Scottie Barnes Montverde guy, who came before NIL, posted only 10.3 PPG, 4.0 RPG, and 4.1 APG in college and even that was in a year with no crowds and players missing games etc. This is a stronger more consolidated talent version of CBB than ever.

I think a lot of what they're basing it on is how well he played this summer vs team USA. He wasn't dominant but he looked like he belonged on the court with those guys. Would Broome?

That’s the thing tho, there are a lot of 17 years that would look fine on that court. Pretty sure I remember Cade Cunningham looking good.

I know guys like 17 year old JR Smith and several others would look good.

With that said, I think he is a great talent. He is only 17, but based on the hype…maybe I was expected a bit too much.


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[The-Power]

That’s the thing tho, there are a lot of 17 years that would look fine on that court. Pretty sure I remember Cade Cunningham looking good.

You mean almost 22 year old two-year NBA vet Cade Cunningham who played on the Select Team last year?

[12footrim]

Watching the exhibition game. He look a bit smaller than expected. Not really super impactful defensively in the bit I’ve seen.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

I wrote about this months ago after a CBS poll of 100 coaches voted him the best player in college basketball by a landslide. He received nine times as many votes as Johni Broome, and nearly every outlet has placed him as the top one or two players in college basketball since. In my opinion, this is ridiculous.

https://theresourcenexus.com/flagg-tops-coaches-poll/

This has nothing to do with his long-term NBA potential, but anyone expecting a 205-lb, 17-year-old post tweener who averaged 16 PPG and 7.5 RPG, 3.8APG in high school to dominate the current COVID-era, super-senior version of college basketball—where most players are 23, and are staying longer thanks to NIL, and all the top mid major talent is consolidated in the Power 5—needs to reassess. Top freshmen in this era have underperformed, as KenPom data shows; there has been about a 77% reduction in high-impact Fr, and the last truly impactful top 10 player Miller, was 20 years old, not 17.

While people may argue he was on a great high school team, he didn’t even outscore or outrebound a player like D. Queen. If you are the "best HS prospect since LeBron" what you can't be expected outscore and rebound your teammate? Now, he’s expected to roll into college basketball and dominate? Do we really think if you put last years Johni Broome, on that same Montverde team, would have only averaged 16 PPG, 7.5 RPG, and 2.7 BPG on a 62% TS against high schoolers when he did more than that in the SEC? For perspective, the last seven National POY averaged 22.2 PPG, 10.7 RPG, 1.7 APG, with a 36.83 PER and 0.646 TS%. Good luck with Flagg doing that.

Here’s a look at highly ranked Montverde SF/PFs since NIL has consolidated top talent.



You only have to go back a couple of years to see another #1 player from Montverde who averaged 16.5 PPG, 5.0 RPG, and 3.5 APG before playing under Scheyer at Duke that was overrated. The success rate for players in this position has been spotty at best. Even Scottie Barnes Montverde guy, who came before NIL, posted only 10.3 PPG, 4.0 RPG, and 4.1 APG in college and even that was in a year with no crowds and players missing games etc. This is a stronger more consolidated talent version of CBB than ever.

I think a lot of what they're basing it on is how well he played this summer vs team USA. He wasn't dominant but he looked like he belonged on the court with those guys. Would Broome?

A summer scrimmage with no crowd where NBA players are getting back from vacation going 75% on the first day trying not to get hurt? I watched it, looked like Flagg was playing it like it was the super bowl and the NBA players were going through the motions. All he did was get a hustle put back and a couple of 3 pointers. He's not even a good 3 point shooter in High school. He made about 1 a game on the shorter HS line at 38%. Since high school he was bad in the McDonalds All American game a game they play no defense.

This preseason he has played 3 games now. The only team he did anything against was 17-14 last year in D2, 180th best D2 team on Massey and then lost their coach. He literally got half his points, all his blocks half his assist etc vs the 600th best team in basketball last year on Massey.

Flagg has played 65 preseason minutes now and these are his percentages on 37 shots, 10 three's and 12 FT's

Shooting Percentages

True Shooting Percentage (TS%): 52.0%
Field Goal Percentage (FG%): 45.9%
3-Point Percentage (3P%): 30.0%
Free Throw Percentage (FT%): 58.0%

If you take out the D2 team out it's

9-21, 1-5 from three, 3-5 from the line. That’s a 47.4% true shooting with a small rate of getting to the FT line in 41 minutes vs intra-squad Duke where his team was destroyed by 19 points in 20 minutes of action, and Arizona State who is likely one of the worst P5 teams. He has 0 steals, 0 blocks in 41 minutes vs the D1 players.

I've watched the last two games exhibitions games at Duke too I said it 3 months ago, he might not be the best freshman on his own team.

[sikma42]

That’s the thing tho, there are a lot of 17 years that would look fine on that court. Pretty sure I remember Cade Cunningham looking good.

You mean almost 22 year old two-year NBA vet Cade Cunningham who played on the Select Team last year?

My bad, I'm getting old I totally forgot the ages. I just think its not crazy for a 17 year old to hand in that scenario, especially if we are talking top #1 pick talent. KAT looked good playing against Team USA for DR. I'm sure there are quite a few guys in this draft class that could perform in this environment.

[165bows]

When's his first game?!?

[The-Power]

That’s the thing tho, there are a lot of 17 years that would look fine on that court. Pretty sure I remember Cade Cunningham looking good.

You mean almost 22 year old two-year NBA vet Cade Cunningham who played on the Select Team last year?

My bad, I'm getting old I totally forgot the ages. I just think its not crazy for a 17 year old to hand in that scenario, especially if we are talking top #1 pick talent. KAT looked good playing against Team USA for DR. I'm sure there are quite a few guys in this draft class that could perform in this environment.

I think you're dramatically overrating the abilities of HS players if you think there are ‘quite a few’ in this draft, or any draft, that can hang with higher-tier NBA players in a competitive environment. Not sure if KAT was as impressive but even if he was, KAT was among the very best draft prospects over the last decade. That's certainly not an argument supporting your claim.

[Ayt]

does he have wing lateral quickness though?

Seems like a tweener, not a true wing.

I don't see this as a concern, when he'll even be able to even play center. He is heavier than Chet, and likely an even better rim protector (or going to be). I think similarly to KG he will play as a PF/C.

There is a 0% chance he's a better rim protector than a long armed freak with outstanding instincts like Chet. I think you are dreaming there, dude.

[LoveMyRaps]

He's a Raptor.

[LoveMyRaps]

When's his first game?!?

November 4th 7pm EST

[FrodoBaggins]

I wrote about this months ago after a CBS poll of 100 coaches voted him the best player in college basketball by a landslide. He received nine times as many votes as Johni Broome, and nearly every outlet has placed him as the top one or two players in college basketball since. In my opinion, this is ridiculous.

https://theresourcenexus.com/flagg-tops-coaches-poll/

This has nothing to do with his long-term NBA potential, but anyone expecting a 205-lb, 17-year-old post tweener who averaged 16 PPG and 7.5 RPG, 3.8APG in high school to dominate the current COVID-era, super-senior version of college basketball—where most players are 23, and are staying longer thanks to NIL, and all the top mid major talent is consolidated in the Power 5—needs to reassess. Top freshmen in this era have underperformed, as KenPom data shows; there has been about a 77% reduction in high-impact Fr, and the last truly impactful top 10 player Miller, was 20 years old, not 17.

While people may argue he was on a great high school team, he didn’t even outscore or outrebound a player like D. Queen. If you are the "best HS prospect since LeBron" what you can't be expected outscore and rebound your teammate? Now, he’s expected to roll into college basketball and dominate? Do we really think if you put last years Johni Broome, on that same Montverde team, would have only averaged 16 PPG, 7.5 RPG, and 2.7 BPG on a 62% TS against high schoolers when he did more than that in the SEC? For perspective, the last seven National POY averaged 22.2 PPG, 10.7 RPG, 1.7 APG, with a 36.83 PER and 0.646 TS%. Good luck with Flagg doing that.

Here’s a look at highly ranked Montverde SF/PFs since NIL has consolidated top talent.



You only have to go back a couple of years to see another #1 player from Montverde who averaged 16.5 PPG, 5.0 RPG, and 3.5 APG before playing under Scheyer at Duke that was overrated. The success rate for players in this position has been spotty at best. Even Scottie Barnes Montverde guy, who came before NIL, posted only 10.3 PPG, 4.0 RPG, and 4.1 APG in college and even that was in a year with no crowds and players missing games etc. This is a stronger more consolidated talent version of CBB than ever.

I think a lot of what they're basing it on is how well he played this summer vs team USA. He wasn't dominant but he looked like he belonged on the court with those guys. Would Broome?

A summer scrimmage with no crowd where NBA players are getting back from vacation going 75% on the first day trying not to get hurt? I watched it, looked like Flagg was playing it like it was the super bowl and the NBA players were going through the motions. All he did was get a hustle put back and a couple of 3 pointers. He's not even a good 3 point shooter in High school. He made about 1 a game on the shorter HS line at 38%. Since high school he was bad in the McDonalds All American game a game they play no defense.

This preseason he has played 3 games now. The only team he did anything against was 17-14 last year in D2, 180th best D2 team on Massey and then lost their coach. He literally got half his points, all his blocks half his assist etc vs the 600th best team in basketball last year on Massey.

Flagg has played 65 preseason minutes now and these are his percentages on 37 shots, 10 three's and 12 FT's

Shooting Percentages

True Shooting Percentage (TS%): 52.0%
Field Goal Percentage (FG%): 45.9%
3-Point Percentage (3P%): 30.0%
Free Throw Percentage (FT%): 58.0%

If you take out the D2 team out it's

9-21, 1-5 from three, 3-5 from the line. That’s a 47.4% true shooting with a small rate of getting to the FT line in 41 minutes vs intra-squad Duke where his team was destroyed by 19 points in 20 minutes of action, and Arizona State who is likely one of the worst P5 teams. He has 0 steals, 0 blocks in 41 minutes vs the D1 players.

I've watched the last two games exhibitions games at Duke too I said it 3 months ago, he might not be the best freshman on his own team.

Watching the exhibition game. He look a bit smaller than expected. Not really super impactful defensively in the bit I’ve seen.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

I wrote about this months ago after a CBS poll of 100 coaches voted him the best player in college basketball by a landslide. He received nine times as many votes as Johni Broome, and nearly every outlet has placed him as the top one or two players in college basketball since. In my opinion, this is ridiculous.

https://theresourcenexus.com/flagg-tops-coaches-poll/

This has nothing to do with his long-term NBA potential, but anyone expecting a 205-lb, 17-year-old post tweener who averaged 16 PPG and 7.5 RPG, 3.8APG in high school to dominate the current COVID-era, super-senior version of college basketball—where most players are 23, and are staying longer thanks to NIL, and all the top mid major talent is consolidated in the Power 5—needs to reassess. Top freshmen in this era have underperformed, as KenPom data shows; there has been about a 77% reduction in high-impact Fr, and the last truly impactful top 10 player Miller, was 20 years old, not 17.

While people may argue he was on a great high school team, he didn’t even outscore or outrebound a player like D. Queen. If you are the "best HS prospect since LeBron" what you can't be expected outscore and rebound your teammate? Now, he’s expected to roll into college basketball and dominate? Do we really think if you put last years Johni Broome, on that same Montverde team, would have only averaged 16 PPG, 7.5 RPG, and 2.7 BPG on a 62% TS against high schoolers when he did more than that in the SEC? For perspective, the last seven National POY averaged 22.2 PPG, 10.7 RPG, 1.7 APG, with a 36.83 PER and 0.646 TS%. Good luck with Flagg doing that.

Here’s a look at highly ranked Montverde SF/PFs since NIL has consolidated top talent.



You only have to go back a couple of years to see another #1 player from Montverde who averaged 16.5 PPG, 5.0 RPG, and 3.5 APG before playing under Scheyer at Duke that was overrated. The success rate for players in this position has been spotty at best. Even Scottie Barnes Montverde guy, who came before NIL, posted only 10.3 PPG, 4.0 RPG, and 4.1 APG in college and even that was in a year with no crowds and players missing games etc. This is a stronger more consolidated talent version of CBB than ever.

Interesting posts. Cooper was the 2024 Gatorade High School Player of the Year; Chet Holmgren and Gradey Dick won the award too in the NIL era. Both put up solid numbers as freshmen:

Dick: 14.1 ppg, 5.1 rpg, 1.7 apg, 1.4 spg, 0.3 bpg, 1.3 topg; 58.1% TS, 40.3% 3PT, 85.4% FT; +7.7 BPM
Holmgren: 14.1 ppg, 9.9 rpg, 1.9 apg, 0.8 spg, 3.7 bpg, 1.9 topg; 69.1% TS, 39.0% 3PT, 71.7% FT; +15.0 BPM

College NPOY? Unlikely. I do think Cooper has a pathway toward an elite freshman season. It'd have to be something like sophomore Ryan Dunn on defense and Tatum/Wiggins/Ingram on offense. Out-of-this-world defensive impact with good enough numbers as a primary shot creator. Numbers would probably look similar to his senior year in high school.

[Johnny Firpo]

Seems like a tweener, not a true wing.

I don't see this as a concern, when he'll even be able to even play center. He is heavier than Chet, and likely an even better rim protector (or going to be). I think similarly to KG he will play as a PF/C.

There is a 0% chance he's a better rim protector than a long armed freak with outstanding instincts like Chet. I think you are dreaming there, dude.

If his wingspan is indeed 7'3, I think it's not impossible, since he is more athletic/and has just as good instincts imo, but it's not that important. He'll have more of a body/frame to defend centers than Chet, that's more than likely, even if he is not an elite, but just a "good" shot blocker.

[Johnny Firpo]

I wrote about this months ago after a CBS poll of 100 coaches voted him the best player in college basketball by a landslide. He received nine times as many votes as Johni Broome, and nearly every outlet has placed him as the top one or two players in college basketball since. In my opinion, this is ridiculous.

https://theresourcenexus.com/flagg-tops-coaches-poll/

This has nothing to do with his long-term NBA potential, but anyone expecting a 205-lb, 17-year-old post tweener who averaged 16 PPG and 7.5 RPG, 3.8APG in high school to dominate the current COVID-era, super-senior version of college basketball—where most players are 23, and are staying longer thanks to NIL, and all the top mid major talent is consolidated in the Power 5—needs to reassess. Top freshmen in this era have underperformed, as KenPom data shows; there has been about a 77% reduction in high-impact Fr, and the last truly impactful top 10 player Miller, was 20 years old, not 17.

While people may argue he was on a great high school team, he didn’t even outscore or outrebound a player like D. Queen. If you are the "best HS prospect since LeBron" what you can't be expected outscore and rebound your teammate? Now, he’s expected to roll into college basketball and dominate? Do we really think if you put last years Johni Broome, on that same Montverde team, would have only averaged 16 PPG, 7.5 RPG, and 2.7 BPG on a 62% TS against high schoolers when he did more than that in the SEC? For perspective, the last seven National POY averaged 22.2 PPG, 10.7 RPG, 1.7 APG, with a 36.83 PER and 0.646 TS%. Good luck with Flagg doing that.

Here’s a look at highly ranked Montverde SF/PFs since NIL has consolidated top talent.



You only have to go back a couple of years to see another #1 player from Montverde who averaged 16.5 PPG, 5.0 RPG, and 3.5 APG before playing under Scheyer at Duke that was overrated. The success rate for players in this position has been spotty at best. Even Scottie Barnes Montverde guy, who came before NIL, posted only 10.3 PPG, 4.0 RPG, and 4.1 APG in college and even that was in a year with no crowds and players missing games etc. This is a stronger more consolidated talent version of CBB than ever.

I think a lot of what they're basing it on is how well he played this summer vs team USA. He wasn't dominant but he looked like he belonged on the court with those guys. Would Broome?

A summer scrimmage with no crowd where NBA players are getting back from vacation going 75% on the first day trying not to get hurt? I watched it, looked like Flagg was playing it like it was the super bowl and the NBA players were going through the motions. All he did was get a hustle put back and a couple of 3 pointers. He's not even a good 3 point shooter in High school. He made about 1 a game on the shorter HS line at 38%. Since high school he was bad in the McDonalds All American game a game they play no defense.

This preseason he has played 3 games now. The only team he did anything against was 17-14 last year in D2, 180th best D2 team on Massey and then lost their coach. He literally got half his points, all his blocks half his assist etc vs the 600th best team in basketball last year on Massey.

Flagg has played 65 preseason minutes now and these are his percentages on 37 shots, 10 three's and 12 FT's

Shooting Percentages

True Shooting Percentage (TS%): 52.0%
Field Goal Percentage (FG%): 45.9%
3-Point Percentage (3P%): 30.0%
Free Throw Percentage (FT%): 58.0%

If you take out the D2 team out it's

9-21, 1-5 from three, 3-5 from the line. That’s a 47.4% true shooting with a small rate of getting to the FT line in 41 minutes vs intra-squad Duke where his team was destroyed by 19 points in 20 minutes of action, and Arizona State who is likely one of the worst P5 teams. He has 0 steals, 0 blocks in 41 minutes vs the D1 players.

I've watched the last two games exhibitions games at Duke too I said it 3 months ago, he might not be the best freshman on his own team.

You are basically saying he is a mediocre player, am I reading this right? What's your projection of him, in terms of player ranking, and production? Please give us an exact ranking range, stats and efficiency, so we can come back to it later. You seem to be extremely confident that he's not even gonna be good, never mind special.

[12footrim]

Interesting posts. Cooper was the 2024 Gatorade High School Player of the Year; Chet Holmgren and Gradey Dick won the award too in the NIL era. Both put up solid numbers as freshmen:

Dick: 14.1 ppg, 5.1 rpg, 1.7 apg, 1.4 spg, 0.3 bpg, 1.3 topg; 58.1% TS, 40.3% 3PT, 85.4% FT; +7.7 BPM
Holmgren: 14.1 ppg, 9.9 rpg, 1.9 apg, 0.8 spg, 3.7 bpg, 1.9 topg; 69.1% TS, 39.0% 3PT, 71.7% FT; +15.0 BPM

College NPOY? Unlikely. I do think Cooper has a pathway toward an elite freshman season. It'd have to be something like sophomore Ryan Dunn on defense and Tatum/Wiggins/Ingram on offense. Out-of-this-world defensive impact with good enough numbers as a primary shot creator. Numbers would probably look similar to his senior year in high school.

This is wrong, NIL in basketball did not come around until spring 2022 recruiting and for that next season. It also wasn't anywhere as crazy that first year as it's gotten to now. The mid majors still kept some of their quality players that year and got a few quality down transfers. The last two years the money is crazy the talent has been consolidated and kept players years after that would have been long gone like 24 year old Hunter Dickinson in CBB and it's showing and accumulated talent like that that would have been gone 2 years ago. Fr are struggling now more than ever. The landscape has changed greatly.

According to KenPom, only five of the top 100 players in offensive rating were true freshmen, compared to 14 in the 2018-19 and 2019-20 seasons. Last season, only two freshmen made the top 100. Playing time for freshmen has remained relatively stable since 2020, but in 2019, nine freshmen ranked in KenPom’s top 100 players for percentage of minutes played—this past season, only two have achieved that.

No back tracking now. Flagg won the #1 player in CBB vote by a landslide and people talk about him as the best High school prospect since LeBron.I thought it was crazy months ago that he'd walk into college basketball and be the best player but that's was the hype that was debated here this summer.

[12footrim]

I think a lot of what they're basing it on is how well he played this summer vs team USA. He wasn't dominant but he looked like he belonged on the court with those guys. Would Broome?

A summer scrimmage with no crowd where NBA players are getting back from vacation going 75% on the first day trying not to get hurt? I watched it, looked like Flagg was playing it like it was the super bowl and the NBA players were going through the motions. All he did was get a hustle put back and a couple of 3 pointers. He's not even a good 3 point shooter in High school. He made about 1 a game on the shorter HS line at 38%. Since high school he was bad in the McDonalds All American game a game they play no defense.

This preseason he has played 3 games now. The only team he did anything against was 17-14 last year in D2, 180th best D2 team on Massey and then lost their coach. He literally got half his points, all his blocks half his assist etc vs the 600th best team in basketball last year on Massey.

Flagg has played 65 preseason minutes now and these are his percentages on 37 shots, 10 three's and 12 FT's

Shooting Percentages

True Shooting Percentage (TS%): 52.0%
Field Goal Percentage (FG%): 45.9%
3-Point Percentage (3P%): 30.0%
Free Throw Percentage (FT%): 58.0%

If you take out the D2 team out it's

9-21, 1-5 from three, 3-5 from the line. That’s a 47.4% true shooting with a small rate of getting to the FT line in 41 minutes vs intra-squad Duke where his team was destroyed by 19 points in 20 minutes of action, and Arizona State who is likely one of the worst P5 teams. He has 0 steals, 0 blocks in 41 minutes vs the D1 players.

I've watched the last two games exhibitions games at Duke too I said it 3 months ago, he might not be the best freshman on his own team.

You are basically saying he is a mediocre player, am I reading this right? What's your projection of him, in terms of player ranking, and production? Please give us an exact ranking range, stats and efficiency, so we can come back to it later. You seem to be extremely confident that he's not even gonna be good, never mind special.

Now you are just making stuff up, dumb framing at that. Even if I put Flagg at the 50th best player in college basketball this year that's till top 1 percentile in D1 and far from "mediocre". It's also a hell of a lot different than #1 or that statistical impact.

I have a 2,000-word article linked above that I wrote in August after our little debate on this same thread, with every thought I had about it months ago before I ever even saw him in a Duke uniform. I projected his stats down to his PER, True Shooting, Defensive Rating, SOS, etc etc in it and what that player rank would come up as in my model with those stats. All that information is there if you want to find it. Who the hell else has projected any of his stats when they ranked him as the best player in CBB?

That's not the point. Anyone thinking some 17-year-old, 200-lb PF was going to come in and dominate this version of college basketball as clearly the best player—like he's ranked by 100 coaches in a landslide, nearly every outlet, etc.—defies critical thinking or basic logic. It was obvious that guy was never going to get anywhere close to the kind of stats and impact that the typical national POYs in this era playing in the frontcourt as the last 7 have been when he didn't even put up numbers or efficiency anywhere close to that in high school.

[Johnny Firpo]

A summer scrimmage with no crowd where NBA players are getting back from vacation going 75% on the first day trying not to get hurt? I watched it, looked like Flagg was playing it like it was the super bowl and the NBA players were going through the motions. All he did was get a hustle put back and a couple of 3 pointers. He's not even a good 3 point shooter in High school. He made about 1 a game on the shorter HS line at 38%. Since high school he was bad in the McDonalds All American game a game they play no defense.

This preseason he has played 3 games now. The only team he did anything against was 17-14 last year in D2, 180th best D2 team on Massey and then lost their coach. He literally got half his points, all his blocks half his assist etc vs the 600th best team in basketball last year on Massey.

Flagg has played 65 preseason minutes now and these are his percentages on 37 shots, 10 three's and 12 FT's

Shooting Percentages

True Shooting Percentage (TS%): 52.0%
Field Goal Percentage (FG%): 45.9%
3-Point Percentage (3P%): 30.0%
Free Throw Percentage (FT%): 58.0%

If you take out the D2 team out it's

9-21, 1-5 from three, 3-5 from the line. That’s a 47.4% true shooting with a small rate of getting to the FT line in 41 minutes vs intra-squad Duke where his team was destroyed by 19 points in 20 minutes of action, and Arizona State who is likely one of the worst P5 teams. He has 0 steals, 0 blocks in 41 minutes vs the D1 players.

I've watched the last two games exhibitions games at Duke too I said it 3 months ago, he might not be the best freshman on his own team.

You are basically saying he is a mediocre player, am I reading this right? What's your projection of him, in terms of player ranking, and production? Please give us an exact ranking range, stats and efficiency, so we can come back to it later. You seem to be extremely confident that he's not even gonna be good, never mind special.

Now you are just making stuff up, dumb framing at that. Even if I put Flagg at the 50th best player in college basketball this year that's till top 1 percentile in D1 and far from "mediocre". It's also a hell of a lot different than #1 or that statistical impact.

I have a 2,000-word article linked above that I wrote in August after our little debate on this same thread, with every thought I had about it months ago before I ever even saw him in a Duke uniform. I projected his stats down to his PER, True Shooting, Defensive Rating, SOS, etc etc in it and what that player rank would come up as in my model with those stats. All that information is there if you want to find it. Who the hell else has projected any of his stats when they ranked him as the best player in CBB?

That's not the point. Anyone thinking some 17-year-old, 200-lb PF was going to come in and dominate this version of college basketball as clearly the best player—like he's ranked by 100 coaches in a landslide, nearly every outlet, etc.—defies critical thinking or basic logic. It was obvious that guy was never going to get anywhere close to the kind of stats and impact that the typical national POYs in this era playing in the frontcourt as the last 7 have been when he didn't even put up numbers or efficiency anywhere close to that in high school.

The point is exactly that I don't think it defies critical thinking or basic logic at all. High school basketball from a statistical standpoint is an entirely useless barometer for college production, and I don't think any scout actually gives a damn about high school counting stats. Do you think they do? I happen to know some scouts and agents in Europe, and we happen to work in the recruiting business, and right now with our top female prospect, not a single coach asked for any youth league stats, they don't care, at all. She's gonna go D1. We don't have top talent with the guys, but we have some D2 level players, and not one coach have asked for league stats there either. They evaluate the talent on physical tools and skill development. Can you link that article you wrote? I would love see the projections.

[12footrim]

The point is exactly that I don't think it defies critical thinking or basic logic at all.

Yeah it does to think a 17 year old 205lb starting PF that wasn't even dominating his HS or blowing away his own teammates stats, is going to suddenly roll into college basketball this year and dominate the oldest best version of CBB in decades.

High school basketball from a statistical standpoint is an entirely useless barometer for college production, and I don't think any scout actually gives a damn about high school counting stats.

Compared to what? The same scouts that had another Montverde SF/PF in Whitehead who was a lot more well built at 220 to be successful on day one I might add, ranked #1 two years ago that went to Duke and has been a complete bust? I'm giving you the actual evidence, not some opinion that is wrong often. There are bust in the top 5 every year.

It's very poor results for college freshmen across the board in Kenpom data in this recent NIL era, but especially for the kind of SF/PF player type Montverde players the last few years. Also highly ranked ones that were complete duds year one.

Again the national consensus ranking from these experts

Do you think they do? I happen to know some scouts and agents in Europe, and we happen to work in the recruiting business, and right now with our top female prospect, not a single coach asked for any youth league stats, they don't care, at all. She's gonna go D1. We don't have top talent with the guys, but we have some D2 level players, and not one coach have asked for league stats there either. They evaluate the talent on physical tools and skill development. Can you link that article you wrote? I would love see the projections.

I don't give a crap about them or even what Flagg does 5 to 10 years from now in the NBA when he can actually grow facial hair. I'm talking about all the people I have interacted with, the national media outlets, commentators, and 100+ coaches that voted him the best player in college basketball THIS year. by a landslide. That's ridiculous IMO and what I've been saying on this thread since July.

[FrodoBaggins]

I don't see this as a concern, when he'll even be able to even play center. He is heavier than Chet, and likely an even better rim protector (or going to be). I think similarly to KG he will play as a PF/C.

There is a 0% chance he's a better rim protector than a long armed freak with outstanding instincts like Chet. I think you are dreaming there, dude.

If his wingspan is indeed 7'3, I think it's not impossible, since he is more athletic/and has just as good instincts imo, but it's not that important. He'll have more of a body/frame to defend centers than Chet, that's more than likely, even if he is not an elite, but just a "good" shot blocker.

Where is the 7'3" wingspan estimation from? I've seen him listed as 6'11.75" (NBADraft.net/J Kyle Mann) and 7'1" (Sports Illustrated).