PG: Cavs vs. Knicks: Only 8FGA for KAT?

[Chanel Bomber]

another way to get our four best players as many shots as possible is run plays for whoever is on the court with the second unit and not let freaking Cam Payne shoot every time.

They're gonna have to cut him. He's one of the lowest basketball IQ players in the league. You're not gonna coach basketball intelligence into him. To borrow guan0's words he's unserious. Cut him.

Or, hear me out, bring in BRODIE and get this party LIT

Let's gooooooo

Save us Brodie

[NoDopeOnSundays]

another way to get our four best players as many shots as possible is run plays for whoever is on the court with the second unit and not let freaking Cam Payne shoot every time.

They're gonna have to cut him. He's one of the lowest basketball IQ players in the league. You're not gonna coach basketball intelligence into him. To borrow guan0's words he's unserious. Cut him.

Or, hear me out, bring in BRODIE and get this party LIT

This is essentially you and ChaHell before posting on here, then you go 2-12 and he goes 7-25.

[GettinitDone]

Read on Twitter

[Guano]

that is 100% not true, homie

Idk, maybe I'm naive. I've been accused of worse. But I have a hard time believing anyone that frequents here wants the team to lose. Even with their agendas. If someone takes a lil joy in being proven right when Kat plays like sht it doesn't mean they are glad the knicks lost it means they're feeling themselves for being right. Idk I try to give people the benefit of positive intent. And I also enjoy the diversity of takes that happen here. Rather ignore those I disagree with than have them silenced.

I think its similar to the randle hate. People went in on him all the time. But it was accepted her cause the consensus was he was a losing player. So an outlier here is kat is a loser. And those that think that way are labeled haters. Sure it's not always brought up in the most flavorful way. But the point is similar.

My initial response to the kat move was fairly negative. And while I still am not sold on it. And ultimately think we're capped below a championship level team. I'll root for the teams success and hope I'm wrong. Sham and wingo are dusty and deserve to see a championship.

The notion that people who login daily to an obscure site called Realgm Knicks want the Knicks to fail is ridiculous.

That's an argument people use to moralize the discussion, putting themselves in the right and the other in the wrong from a moral standpoint. Therefore there's nothing the other can say - however rational or constructive - that is valid. Because their intentions are wrong anyways. It's really a dishonest way of interacting with others, and it mirrors the way people "discuss" politics these days.

Tbh, i find the it admirable. I think we are all passionate and ultimately want the same thing. The knicks to win. I just can't help it that I'm always right and some around here can't keep up.

[Capn'O]

Josh should be put in the Randle role. Hey Josh you rebound, keep it, push and drive into the paint. You get the paint touch and spray or you finish. If Brunson brings the ball up you play on the same side as him and set the pick for him to get to the middle and then pop out for the stampede catch. If Brunson kicks out to the opposite side then set a pindown for Brunson to zipper up back to the top.

You just keep your defender engaged in motion.

The challenge there is that he doesn't command the same sort of defensive attention in that role. Randle gets at least full attention and a hedger. Often double. It could be an option (same same Mikal) but we can't spam it like we did with Randle.

Make Josh move constantly and you will be good. Make Josh stand and you are in trouble.

I'm buying what you're selling here. It's a slightly different argument (Randle could operate from stationary) but I'm buying.

[Guano]

They're gonna have to cut him. He's one of the lowest basketball IQ players in the league. You're not gonna coach basketball intelligence into him. To borrow guan0's words he's unserious. Cut him.

Or, hear me out, bring in BRODIE and get this party LIT

This is essentially you and ChaHell before posting on here, then you go 2-12 and he goes 7-25.

I kinda hate this cause I know I'm cam in this situation. Chanel is definitely putting up more volume than me.

[Chanel Bomber]

They're gonna have to cut him. He's one of the lowest basketball IQ players in the league. You're not gonna coach basketball intelligence into him. To borrow guan0's words he's unserious. Cut him.

Or, hear me out, bring in BRODIE and get this party LIT

This is essentially you and ChaHell before posting on here, then you go 2-12 and he goes 7-25.

You finally see the vision

[Capn'O]

I might have to put a prohibition on acquiring any players named Cam. Even Cam Johnson, unfortunately.

[Guano]

that is 100% not true, homie

Idk, maybe I'm naive. I've been accused of worse. But I have a hard time believing anyone that frequents here wants the team to lose. Even with their agendas. If someone takes a lil joy in being proven right when Kat plays like sht it doesn't mean they are glad the knicks lost it means they're feeling themselves for being right. Idk I try to give people the benefit of positive intent. And I also enjoy the diversity of takes that happen here. Rather ignore those I disagree with than have them silenced.

I think its similar to the randle hate. People went in on him all the time. But it was accepted her cause the consensus was he was a losing player. So an outlier here is kat is a loser. And those that think that way are labeled haters. Sure it's not always brought up in the most flavorful way. But the point is similar.

My initial response to the kat move was fairly negative. And while I still am not sold on it. And ultimately think we're capped below a championship level team. I'll root for the teams success and hope I'm wrong. Sham and wingo are dusty and deserve to see a championship.

Nah, sham would genuinely like to see us struggle so he can say we need Mitch, he got to the point where he actually said he wanted him traded because we didn't appreciate him If we had Mitch right now he'd still be posting and taking shots at KAT during the games like he did with Ihart, despite Ihart helping us when Mitch was out. The schtick got old cause anytime he tries it now people just remind him that Mitch can't stay healthy, so the complaints don't really make sense, like get ya mans some more calcium in his diet. sham took his ball and went home cause he couldn't freely just hate on a player, while propping up another player that isn't healthy.

I will say I think you and I are similar, in that in the end, we don't care. I don't take anything seriously, I supported RJ and Obi, but now that they're not Knicks I just don't care. I'm not a fan of player type of person, I grew up and had no posters on my wall and never had any jerseys. If someone insults me on here, I'll shoot back because that's just how it goes on the internet, but almost everything I post has some level of satire or joke in it to keep things light.

lol. I can just see Mitch getting traded to some terrible team like the wiz and sham going their rooting. That's more of what he deserves. let's aside. He just has a brand he likes and this roster doesn't seem to fit it. But he has stuck around through too many years of sht to have his loyalty questioned. The man tried to see the upside in Alonzo Trier for gawds sake.

And I'm with you I probably don't take this serious enough - But that's a problem I have in all areas of my life. I also rarely root for players. Though there are some I enjoy more than others. I also don't take the time to learn the details of the games like you and some others around here do. I'm definitely a "that boy is nice" type fan. So I do enjoy when you and others break it down. I'm just unwilling to put in that type of work.

[Capn'O]

Sham just likes seeing opposing players get hit with metal bats. He was super happy last year and even secretly liked iHart as a player, which you could tell because all of a sudden his argument was "yeah, he's good, but he's gonna leave."

[thebuzzardman]

Donte was a really high volume 3 point shooter and he just let it rip

Hart isn't high volume. And Mikal isn't high volume. And neither is OG.

So unless Brunson or KAT takes a bunch I don't think we will be up there.

But its up to Thibs to scheme stuff for KAT and Brunson and the teammates to look for him. So many times I think they are automatically conditioned not to find a big spacing the floor. They just assume they can't shoot. Gotta swing it to KAT if bigs are in drop coverage.

OG isn't high volume however, he was averaging 6 per game the 4 seasons before he was traded here, he gets here and now he's taking 4 per game. Mikal averaged 7.2 threes per game last year, that's down to 4.7 this year, KAT is down to his second lowest attempts per game.

Dontes shooting should be replaced by group shooting and the fact the C spot went from taking none to what should be 5-7 per game. This is absolutely a scheme and coaching issue, the Bulls are firing up threes like their lives depend on it and we have better shooters than them.

I think what we miss from losing Donte is the movement off the ball and how quickly he could relocate and get himself open. Our starting lineup is heavier and more predictable on the weak side.

Nevertheless, it's not an excuse for taking so few 3-pointers.

KAT should be attempting at least 5 or 6 per game.

MIkal relocates just as well as Donte. It's Thibs coaching, 100%

[thebuzzardman]

It's only 3 games family...you havent seen "this team" yet. They need games to develop..

Looks like I'll start watching around game 30 then.

Will you only start posting around game 30, too?

And miss out on 26 more game of irritating the f*ck out of people? No way!

[thebuzzardman]

We are dead last in threes attempted per game with 28.3

Last season without Randle we attempted 36.2, how is it possible they built a roster to take threes and we're dead last.

We built a roster with more catch and shoot three point shooters. We removed a create your own three guy in DiVo and we removed a gravity guy in Randle who caused people to double for the mismatch.

Now we have one guy who gets in the paint off the dribble and you can play him straight up because he's short. So stay home and now it's actually harder to generate 3s. You need guys who can create threes off the dribble if you're going to play Thibs-ball. He should probably go back and watch more GSW offence to see how relocation, cutting and off-ball screening works.

KAT in post ups doesn't work like a Randle drive because there is less chance of a foul and it is more difficult to get the ball into him.

It's tough to even run pindowns because opponents just switch them because everybody is the same size and ballhandling.

Damn, once Divo got traded he became this mythical shot creator and once Bridges became a Knick he's this mega stiff who doesn't create. Interesting.

[thebuzzardman]

Another one, in addition to the gifs, look where Hart is and look where Mobley is

Read on Twitter

The Celtics had Horford on Hart, the Cavs put Mobley on him, you can hide your big on him if they're mobile. The Celtics will absolutely put Kristaps on him if he's reluctant to shoot and not respected.


The entire 4th quarter till he left the game they were not guarding him.

Again, I love Josh Hart, but these clips are pretty damning.

The NBA's evolving fast, and while you can get away with some weaknesses against the more traditional coaches, the more forward-thinking ones will punish you mercilessly for them.

I still believe Hart brings winning intangibles to the table, but we may reach the point where Hart can exclusively play bench minutes or as the screener against elite competition.

It's starting to feel like a Marcus Smart situation. I hope it doesn't prove to be true, but I'm open to that being a possibility.

Hart should be coming off the bench.

If your team is starting Hart, your team isn't that good.

He's GREAT off the bench, in that he can back up 2, 3 and 4.

I'd bench him, start Deuce, and make Hart primarily OG's back up, since OG is the next least most effective offensive player in the starting lineup.

Sort of sucks that once Hart enters the rotation as a backup that shuffle between Deuce/Bridges/OG and Hart means Hart will play 30 minutes, so that's 30 minutes the Knicks will be 4 out instead of 5 out, but what can you do?

After that, the Knicks should ensure that Hart and whoever the backup C is should never play a single moment on the floor together, since none of the backup 5's can shoot from the three point line.

Doesn't matter if it's Sims (well, it really matters if it's Sims) or Huk or Precious or Mitch.
Because at that point, the Knicks max is 3 out, not 4, not 5.

Particularly if Thibs is still coach.
Maybe someone with an offensive brain could make it work, but that isn't Thibs.

[thebuzzardman]

I think we're still looking for a fifth crunch time player. One who can shoot from 3 and space the floor, and who also has the size to cover at least 2 positions. McBride could be that guy, but we need another option in my opinion.

We still have a few tradable assets:
- A recent first-round pick in 3Pac
- The Wizards pick
- Josh Hart's contract
- Mitch's contract
- McBride's bargain contract (which I think we should keep)

I like the idea of bringing in Bogdan Bogdanovic or Norman Powell, whether or not they'd start. They'd at least give us an additional option when our offense gets disrupted by smart defenses cheating off Hart.

Tre Murphy, come on down!!!!!!

[JayTWill]

Yeah before when it was him and Randle it was more you take a turn I take a turn because both players thrive in isolation.

KAT needs Brunson to work off him. He should come into every game getting his guys involved and that will just make the game easier for him down the stretch when he can take over.

This chemistry thing is not an overrated thing. It is very real.

People are going to freak out game in and game out because they only look at the snapshots (often because of the desire to see their team winning in that moment) but not the whole picture.

This tapestry is not finished by a longshot.

If it fails it may be more an indictment on the coaching than the talent. There are so many ways a team with this much talent can be successful.

But it requires players learning how to play with each other, what each other's best roles are and the coaches to establish a system that puts these players in best positions to utilize their skill sets.

It might be a combination of things too . Where KAT is sometimes at the 4 or the 5 depending on matchups. Last night was a time to create open 3s and we barely shot any. We have great 3 point shooters on this team. Until Proven otherwise Thibs is a stud coach when he can run his preferred system of drop coverage and close out on the 3. He may be forced get used to trying things he doesn't like to run as much for the betterment of the team.

In any event they are finding their way right now. Like I said before that historically talented Miami heat team when they assembled in 2010 they started barely over .500 in their first 17 games. People were screaming they were a failure and fire Spoelstra Lol.

Yes it's too early to panic. They are still very much in the experimental phase. Testing out plays, while the players get accustomed to playing together. The coaching staff needs a sample size they currently don't have to make adjustments.

One thing I've noticed with Thibs - and it's not uncommon among basketball coaches - is sometimes he gets attached to an idea and he only pulls the plug after it has demonstrably failed, when the data is undeniable, even as you could see it yielding unsatisfying results much earlier.

This time he will need to show willingness to adapt outside of his comfort zone. I think he has really grown as a coach over the last couple of seasons, especially in the playoffs, but this season will really test him with iHart gone and Mitch injured. I think it's obvious the Knicks will need to employ a more diverse set of defensive schemes with this new personnel. In the immediate term, the offense has to find KAT more.

Just out of curiosity what growth have you seen from Thibs from the past couple seasons? I was a big Thibs guy early in his career but I haven't really noticed much change from the way his teams play since the Chicago days. I can't pretend that I am an X's and O's expert or that I know how he handles the team on a daily basis. Just wanted your thoughts.

[B8RcDeMktfxC]

Another one, in addition to the gifs, look where Hart is and look where Mobley is

Read on Twitter

The Celtics had Horford on Hart, the Cavs put Mobley on him, you can hide your big on him if they're mobile. The Celtics will absolutely put Kristaps on him if he's reluctant to shoot and not respected.


The entire 4th quarter till he left the game they were not guarding him.

Again, I love Josh Hart, but these clips are pretty damning.

The NBA's evolving fast, and while you can get away with some weaknesses against the more traditional coaches, the more forward-thinking ones will punish you mercilessly for them.

I still believe Hart brings winning intangibles to the table, but we may reach the point where Hart can exclusively play bench minutes or as the screener against elite competition.

It's starting to feel like a Marcus Smart situation. I hope it doesn't prove to be true, but I'm open to that being a possibility.

Hart should be coming off the bench.

If your team is starting Hart, your team isn't that good.

He's GREAT off the bench, in that he can back up 2, 3 and 4.

I'd bench him, start Deuce, and make Hart primarily OG's back up, since OG is the next least most effective offensive player in the starting lineup.

Sort of sucks that once Hart enters the rotation as a backup that shuffle between Deuce/Bridges/OG and Hart means Hart will play 30 minutes, so that's 30 minutes the Knicks will be 4 out instead of 5 out, but what can you do?

After that, the Knicks should ensure that Hart and whoever the backup C is should never play a single moment on the floor together, since none of the backup 5's can shoot from the three point line.

Doesn't matter if it's Sims (well, it really matters if it's Sims) or Huk or Precious or Mitch.
Because at that point, the Knicks max is 3 out, not 4, not 5.

Particularly if Thibs is still coach.
Maybe someone with an offensive brain could make it work, but that isn't Thibs.

Start Hukporti for Hart. I'm not saying he should play "starters minutes", but that can let KAT start the 4 and hopefully get into the game without being baffled by having to play C out of the gate. Then sub Huk out for Josh or Deuce depending.

Also, please shoot Cam Payne out of a cannon and into the East River.

[B8RcDeMktfxC]

OG isn't high volume however, he was averaging 6 per game the 4 seasons before he was traded here, he gets here and now he's taking 4 per game. Mikal averaged 7.2 threes per game last year, that's down to 4.7 this year, KAT is down to his second lowest attempts per game.

Dontes shooting should be replaced by group shooting and the fact the C spot went from taking none to what should be 5-7 per game. This is absolutely a scheme and coaching issue, the Bulls are firing up threes like their lives depend on it and we have better shooters than them.

I think what we miss from losing Donte is the movement off the ball and how quickly he could relocate and get himself open. Our starting lineup is heavier and more predictable on the weak side.

Nevertheless, it's not an excuse for taking so few 3-pointers.

KAT should be attempting at least 5 or 6 per game.

MIkal relocates just as well as Donte. It's Thibs coaching, 100%

I hardly call moving from Brooklyn to Manhattan "relocating".

[TKKnicks1]

I'm gonna compare this team to the 2010 Miami Heat. I asked my friend and colleague Mr. GPT and they were 9-8 after 17 games. Biggest weakness was their offense and they were mediocre on defense. Sound familiar? Talk to me in January.

[Chanel Bomber]

This chemistry thing is not an overrated thing. It is very real.

People are going to freak out game in and game out because they only look at the snapshots (often because of the desire to see their team winning in that moment) but not the whole picture.

This tapestry is not finished by a longshot.

If it fails it may be more an indictment on the coaching than the talent. There are so many ways a team with this much talent can be successful.

But it requires players learning how to play with each other, what each other's best roles are and the coaches to establish a system that puts these players in best positions to utilize their skill sets.

It might be a combination of things too . Where KAT is sometimes at the 4 or the 5 depending on matchups. Last night was a time to create open 3s and we barely shot any. We have great 3 point shooters on this team. Until Proven otherwise Thibs is a stud coach when he can run his preferred system of drop coverage and close out on the 3. He may be forced get used to trying things he doesn't like to run as much for the betterment of the team.

In any event they are finding their way right now. Like I said before that historically talented Miami heat team when they assembled in 2010 they started barely over .500 in their first 17 games. People were screaming they were a failure and fire Spoelstra Lol.

Yes it's too early to panic. They are still very much in the experimental phase. Testing out plays, while the players get accustomed to playing together. The coaching staff needs a sample size they currently don't have to make adjustments.

One thing I've noticed with Thibs - and it's not uncommon among basketball coaches - is sometimes he gets attached to an idea and he only pulls the plug after it has demonstrably failed, when the data is undeniable, even as you could see it yielding unsatisfying results much earlier.

This time he will need to show willingness to adapt outside of his comfort zone. I think he has really grown as a coach over the last couple of seasons, especially in the playoffs, but this season will really test him with iHart gone and Mitch injured. I think it's obvious the Knicks will need to employ a more diverse set of defensive schemes with this new personnel. In the immediate term, the offense has to find KAT more.

Just out of curiosity what growth have you seen from Thibs from the past couple seasons? I was a big Thibs guy early in his career but I haven't really noticed much change from the way his teams play since the Chicago days. I can't pretend that I am an X's and O's expert or that I know how he handles the team on a daily basis. Just wanted your thoughts.

I used to think he would always be reluctant to have a 3-point-heavy offense, as none of his Chicago and Minnesota ever finished top half in 3s attempted. But the Knicks did in the last two seasons, which to me signaled a shift in his approach, one that embraced analytics more.

I also thought he was much quicker to make adjustments in the playoffs the past two seasons, a stark contrast to the series against the Hawks. I'm far from an Xs and Os guy myself as well, but how he early he used RJ and Hart as screeners in the Cleveland series is an example that comes to mind.