PG: Cavs vs. Knicks: Only 8FGA for KAT?

[Context]

I'm gonna compare this team to the 2010 Miami Heat. I asked my friend and colleague Mr. GPT and they were 9-8 after 17 games. Biggest weakness was their offense and they were mediocre on defense. Sound familiar? Talk to me in January.

I'm down! Talk to me in January too!

[Clyde_Style]

I'm gonna compare this team to the 2010 Miami Heat. I asked my friend and colleague Mr. GPT and they were 9-8 after 17 games. Biggest weakness was their offense and they were mediocre on defense. Sound familiar? Talk to me in January.

Easiest decision in a long time will be reading less threads for the first 90 days of the season. I don't have the time I used to, especially to read early epitaphs of the team by people who change their stance on the team game by game. We have incredible talent and it will just take time to gel.

[prophet_of_rage]

The challenge there is that he doesn't command the same sort of defensive attention in that role. Randle gets at least full attention and a hedger. Often double. It could be an option (same same Mikal) but we can't spam it like we did with Randle.

Make Josh move constantly and you will be good. Make Josh stand and you are in trouble.

I'm buying what you're selling here. It's a slightly different argument (Randle could operate from stationary) but I'm buying.

It's because I only talk basketball not fandom.

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[prophet_of_rage]

We are dead last in threes attempted per game with 28.3

Last season without Randle we attempted 36.2, how is it possible they built a roster to take threes and we're dead last.

We built a roster with more catch and shoot three point shooters. We removed a create your own three guy in DiVo and we removed a gravity guy in Randle who caused people to double for the mismatch.

Now we have one guy who gets in the paint off the dribble and you can play him straight up because he's short. So stay home and now it's actually harder to generate 3s. You need guys who can create threes off the dribble if you're going to play Thibs-ball. He should probably go back and watch more GSW offence to see how relocation, cutting and off-ball screening works.

KAT in post ups doesn't work like a Randle drive because there is less chance of a foul and it is more difficult to get the ball into him.

It's tough to even run pindowns because opponents just switch them because everybody is the same size and ballhandling.

Damn, once Divo got traded he became this mythical shot creator and once Bridges became a Knick he's this mega stiff who doesn't create. Interesting.

You're watching it in real time. Phx Mikal Bridges wasn't some stepback three shooter. DDV always was.

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[Dave_R]

As I've said many times, KAT must post-up more and DEMAND the ball. The Knicks will go as far as KAT's post-up game takes them (they'll need it in the playoffs).

[KOA]

I would like to see KAT out there more when Brunson isnt on the court and being the focal point of offense (i.e. no Cam Payne!)

[F N 11]

I would like to see KAT out there more when Brunson isnt on the court and being the focal point of offense (i.e. no Cam Payne!)

Yup enough of this team stuff. Gotta force the star players let the team play off them.

[Iron Mantis]

Board has been eerily peaceful the past 24 hours.

Folks just respectfully discussing differing basketball opinions after a loss.

I can get used to this.

[Iron Mantis]

As I've said many times, KAT must post-up more and DEMAND the ball. The Knicks will go as far as KAT's post-up game takes them (they'll need it in the playoffs).

Thibs is most definitely going to adjust and get action going for KAT. You will see.

Thibs is not an offensive genius....but he's smart, and without question he wants to win.

He also knows if he loses this gig, it's likely the end of his head coaching career.

[TKKnicks1]

How about we keep KAT in the game when Brunson goes to the bench and bring in Kolek instead of Payne. See what a real floor general can do in the PnR with KAT. IMO a Kolek/KAT combo top of the key could be unstoppable.

Save this post cuz I see it happening sooner than later. Payne gonna chuck his way out of the lineup very soon.

[B8RcDeMktfxC]

How about we keep KAT in the game when Brunson goes to the bench and bring in Kolek instead of Payne. See what a real floor general can do in the PnR with KAT. IMO a Kolek/KAT combo top of the key could be unstoppable.

Save this post cuz I see it happening sooner than later. Payne gonna chuck his way out of the lineup very soon.

I think Payne was clearly a mistake. But insurance. Hard to tell how to play that differently before except by keeping even more cards close to the chest.

[spree2kawhi]

Board has been eerily peaceful the past 24 hours.

Folks just respectfully discussing differing basketball opinions after a loss.

I can get used to this.

That is only until Randle plays well enough - possibly as we speak - and someone rubs it into everybody’s face.

[spree2kawhi]

How about we keep KAT in the game when Brunson goes to the bench and bring in Kolek instead of Payne. See what a real floor general can do in the PnR with KAT. IMO a Kolek/KAT combo top of the key could be unstoppable.

Save this post cuz I see it happening sooner than later. Payne gonna chuck his way out of the lineup very soon.

I think Payne was clearly a mistake. But insurance. Hard to tell how to play that differently before except by keeping even more cards close to the chest.

I think he’s been good overall…

[NoDopeOnSundays]

Idk, maybe I'm naive. I've been accused of worse. But I have a hard time believing anyone that frequents here wants the team to lose. Even with their agendas. If someone takes a lil joy in being proven right when Kat plays like sht it doesn't mean they are glad the knicks lost it means they're feeling themselves for being right. Idk I try to give people the benefit of positive intent. And I also enjoy the diversity of takes that happen here. Rather ignore those I disagree with than have them silenced.

I think its similar to the randle hate. People went in on him all the time. But it was accepted her cause the consensus was he was a losing player. So an outlier here is kat is a loser. And those that think that way are labeled haters. Sure it's not always brought up in the most flavorful way. But the point is similar.

My initial response to the kat move was fairly negative. And while I still am not sold on it. And ultimately think we're capped below a championship level team. I'll root for the teams success and hope I'm wrong. Sham and wingo are dusty and deserve to see a championship.

Nah, sham would genuinely like to see us struggle so he can say we need Mitch, he got to the point where he actually said he wanted him traded because we didn't appreciate him If we had Mitch right now he'd still be posting and taking shots at KAT during the games like he did with Ihart, despite Ihart helping us when Mitch was out. The schtick got old cause anytime he tries it now people just remind him that Mitch can't stay healthy, so the complaints don't really make sense, like get ya mans some more calcium in his diet. sham took his ball and went home cause he couldn't freely just hate on a player, while propping up another player that isn't healthy.

I will say I think you and I are similar, in that in the end, we don't care. I don't take anything seriously, I supported RJ and Obi, but now that they're not Knicks I just don't care. I'm not a fan of player type of person, I grew up and had no posters on my wall and never had any jerseys. If someone insults me on here, I'll shoot back because that's just how it goes on the internet, but almost everything I post has some level of satire or joke in it to keep things light.

lol. I can just see Mitch getting traded to some terrible team like the wiz and sham going their rooting. That's more of what he deserves. let's aside. He just has a brand he likes and this roster doesn't seem to fit it. But he has stuck around through too many years of sht to have his loyalty questioned. The man tried to see the upside in Alonzo Trier for gawds sake.

And I'm with you I probably don't take this serious enough - But that's a problem I have in all areas of my life. I also rarely root for players. Though there are some I enjoy more than others. I also don't take the time to learn the details of the games like you and some others around here do. I'm definitely a "that boy is nice" type fan. So I do enjoy when you and others break it down. I'm just unwilling to put in that type of work.

sham will be slandered in full, if he ever comes back I'll have people in here thinking he was arrested as part of the Diddy case and that's why he was gone. This isn't so much about the truth, as it is dragging sham's awful name. Some say you should never kick a man when he's down, and they're right, you jump on their chest with both feet and put them in a rear naked choke. sham giving up his fandom after they traded for a center, because the center he stans is injured, what a close to his chapter on here if that's it.


I learn the details because it makes my arguments iron clad and people get frustrated, especially since my tone comes across so serious yet I'll paint a vivid picture about them losing a slap boxing match naked in the street, it is the sheer ridiculousness that really annoys. We are very similar, you're more carefree, while I'm carefree and like to antagonize a bit.

[Capn'O]

How about we keep KAT in the game when Brunson goes to the bench and bring in Kolek instead of Payne. See what a real floor general can do in the PnR with KAT. IMO a Kolek/KAT combo top of the key could be unstoppable.

Save this post cuz I see it happening sooner than later. Payne gonna chuck his way out of the lineup very soon.

I think Payne was clearly a mistake. But insurance. Hard to tell how to play that differently before except by keeping even more cards close to the chest.

I mean, we even have...

Spoiler:

[KnixinSix]

Yes it's too early to panic. They are still very much in the experimental phase. Testing out plays, while the players get accustomed to playing together. The coaching staff needs a sample size they currently don't have to make adjustments.

One thing I've noticed with Thibs - and it's not uncommon among basketball coaches - is sometimes he gets attached to an idea and he only pulls the plug after it has demonstrably failed, when the data is undeniable, even as you could see it yielding unsatisfying results much earlier.

This time he will need to show willingness to adapt outside of his comfort zone. I think he has really grown as a coach over the last couple of seasons, especially in the playoffs, but this season will really test him with iHart gone and Mitch injured. I think it's obvious the Knicks will need to employ a more diverse set of defensive schemes with this new personnel. In the immediate term, the offense has to find KAT more.

Just out of curiosity what growth have you seen from Thibs from the past couple seasons? I was a big Thibs guy early in his career but I haven't really noticed much change from the way his teams play since the Chicago days. I can't pretend that I am an X's and O's expert or that I know how he handles the team on a daily basis. Just wanted your thoughts.

I used to think he would always be reluctant to have a 3-point-heavy offense, as none of his Chicago and Minnesota ever finished top half in 3s attempted. But the Knicks did in the last two seasons, which to me signaled a shift in his approach, one that embraced analytics more.

I also thought he was much quicker to make adjustments in the playoffs the past two seasons, a stark contrast to the series against the Hawks. I'm far from an Xs and Os guy myself as well, but how he early he used RJ and Hart as screeners in the Cleveland series is an example that comes to mind.

Yes I agree Thibs has shown signs of more flexibility which is encouraging.

[RHODEY]

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[thebuzzardman]

We built a roster with more catch and shoot three point shooters. We removed a create your own three guy in DiVo and we removed a gravity guy in Randle who caused people to double for the mismatch.

Now we have one guy who gets in the paint off the dribble and you can play him straight up because he's short. So stay home and now it's actually harder to generate 3s. You need guys who can create threes off the dribble if you're going to play Thibs-ball. He should probably go back and watch more GSW offence to see how relocation, cutting and off-ball screening works.

KAT in post ups doesn't work like a Randle drive because there is less chance of a foul and it is more difficult to get the ball into him.

It's tough to even run pindowns because opponents just switch them because everybody is the same size and ballhandling.

Damn, once Divo got traded he became this mythical shot creator and once Bridges became a Knick he's this mega stiff who doesn't create. Interesting.

You're watching it in real time. Phx Mikal Bridges wasn't some stepback three shooter. DDV always was.

Sent from my SM-S9080 using RealGM mobile app

I'll take Bridges 3 point shooting plus his ability to actually make mid range jumpers and layups, something Divo struggled with.

Of course, ideally, Mitch would have been in the trade instead of Divo, but he's always hurt so nobody wants Mitch.

[Hatrick Ewing]

Can't wait til he comes back. He had real games for us last year, and he's a NY guy who's playing on a great contract. I know we think highly of him, but we are really lucky to have him as our backup PF. Things are gonna look a lot more full when he and Robinson come back.

[Hatrick Ewing]

No reason we shouldn't have tbh.