Welcome to Boston, Jaden Springer!

[celtxman]

It should be against the law that Springer is on an NBA team while Lonnie Walker isn’t. (Yeah yeah I know. Dead horse. I get it.)

Thing is, there's no law against signing Walker. There are a few teams that could make him an offer. Might be best for him to make some money in Madrid and try to come back next season. I hope he gets another shot with the Celtics. For now, that dead horse has sailed...

Yeah I’m just in an extreme win-now mode and it would be nice if we had another vet off the bench who could come in and fill it up. Decent injury insurance as well. Ah well.

It feels like "what am I missing here?" We have every reason to trust Brad but other than possibly thinking Walsh's time is critical we could have kept everyone , Walker includedand kicked the can at least to the trade deadline.

Playin

[ParticleMan]

I suspect Brad wants to see how the competition plays out. we have a surplus of sign-able developmental wings, Springer, Walker, and Scrubb. hard to say who will emerge atm. Springer is the best defender but also has zero feel for the game and no offensive confidence. Walker is a non-defending inefficient volume shooter with questionable upside. Scrubb might be the best of them if he's back fully healthy, but we'll have to wait and see a couple of months at least.

we already have 1 roster spot devoted to this in springer. do we really need to devote another and lose all roster flexibility? what if some new guy blows up in Maine, or anywhere in the G-league and Brad can pounce? or we have some injury and we have to fill another need?

i'm just not sure LWIV moves the needle. he would be great if we had infinite roster spots and infinite money. but otherwise the flexibility is probably worth more than Lonnie at this stage in the season.

[Hal14]

I suspect Brad wants to see how the competition plays out. we have a surplus of sign-able developmental wings, Springer, Walker, and Scrubb. hard to say who will emerge atm.

We don't have Walker. We waived him and then he declined when we offered him a roster spot on our g league team..

[31to6]

I think Walsh's wingspan, wiry strength, and quick-twitch athleticism make whatever interest I was trying to develop in Springer a moot point. Jordan has the inside track to developmental wing -- defense, hustle, and corner 3 division.

Jaden doesn't have the build or the game to give him a path to make an impact here. He looks like a decent college cornerback trying to play the wrong sport.

[31to6]

I suspect Brad wants to see how the competition plays out. we have a surplus of sign-able developmental wings, Springer, Walker, and Scrubb. hard to say who will emerge atm.

We don't have Walker. We waived him and then he declined when we offered him a roster spot on our g league team..

We all have Lonnie Walker right here (touches your heart, touches your chest)

[Homerclease]

I suspect Brad wants to see how the competition plays out. we have a surplus of sign-able developmental wings, Springer, Walker, and Scrubb. hard to say who will emerge atm.

We don't have Walker. We waived him and then he declined when we offered him a roster spot on our g league team..

So you’re saying that if the Celtics called up Walkers agent and offered him a deal they’d say no?

[Hal14]

I think Walsh's wingspan, wiry strength, and quick-twitch athleticism make whatever interest I was trying to develop in Springer a moot point. Jordan has the inside track to developmental wing -- defense, hustle, and corner 3 division.

In all seriousness, we already had Walsh on the team when Brad traded for Springer. So clearly, he felt like there was room on the team for both. Probably because they play different positions - Walsh is more of a 4 who can maybe play some 3. Springer is more of a 2 who can maybe play some 3.

Or perhaps he just figured, why not acquire both of them, knowing that odds are probably only 1 of them pans out and you can just trade the other one later (or just not resign them in free agency).

Jaden doesn't have the build or the game to give him a path to make an impact here. He looks like a decent college cornerback trying to play the wrong sport.

It's funny, Dalen Terry is a similar player but the discourse is so much different (more positive) around him.

You could take this tweet, put Springer's name instead of Terry and it would work the same..you could also easily find a clip of Springer making a similar play to the one Terry makes here:

Read on Twitter

The discourse around Springer is also different outside of this forum:


Also, what's wrong with Jaden's build? He's very well built, sturdy, strong. He's got more of an NBA body than Walsh has - and more athletic.

[ParticleMan]

I suspect Brad wants to see how the competition plays out. we have a surplus of sign-able developmental wings, Springer, Walker, and Scrubb. hard to say who will emerge atm.

We don't have Walker. We waived him and then he declined when we offered him a roster spot on our g league team..

sure but he's signable. all we have to do is offer the vet min.

[Hal14]

I suspect Brad wants to see how the competition plays out. we have a surplus of sign-able developmental wings, Springer, Walker, and Scrubb. hard to say who will emerge atm.

We don't have Walker. We waived him and then he declined when we offered him a roster spot on our g league team..

sure but he's signable. all we have to do is offer the vet min.

1) That's true about all 50+ free agents. All of them could be signed, not just by Boston but by any of the 30 teams in the NBA.

We "have" Walker as much as the Bulls, Knicks, Hawks or any of the other teams in the league "have" him.

2) Before the season started 2 weeks ago, our front office chose to waive Walker instead of signing him

[Dogen]

I suspect Brad wants to see how the competition plays out. we have a surplus of sign-able developmental wings, Springer, Walker, and Scrubb. hard to say who will emerge atm. Springer is the best defender but also has zero feel for the game and no offensive confidence. Walker is a non-defending inefficient volume shooter with questionable upside. Scrubb might be the best of them if he's back fully healthy, but we'll have to wait and see a couple of months at least.

we already have 1 roster spot devoted to this in springer. do we really need to devote another and lose all roster flexibility? what if some new guy blows up in Maine, or anywhere in the G-league and Brad can pounce? or we have some injury and we have to fill another need?

i'm just not sure LWIV moves the needle. he would be great if we had infinite roster spots and infinite money. but otherwise the flexibility is probably worth more than Lonnie at this stage in the season.

Thanks for invoking the name Scrubb, Man of Particles. Jay may be the dark horse contender here. He, like Walker, has that feel-good story vibe, maybe more so. Jay was great for summer/G league a couple years ago, and he said he's about 80-90% back a couple months ago, if memory serves.

Scrubb could give that Walker energy with his microwave shooting, he has more experience with the team, and his defense may be a little better too. Hard to say unless he can get on the floor, but he could be an alternate for Walker to fill a spot if a trade occurs.

Springer seems to be infected with "Not Lonnie Walker Syndrome". His stock is so low right now, and the little playing time has not done anything to dissuade that opinion for most.

As there will be options at the trade deadline, including Scrubb fitting in somehow. Until then, I'm happy to see how things develop with Springer.

I'm not buying the current narrative about him. I've seen what he's done in 2022 and 2023 and there needs to be an explanation as to why he's apparently fallen off so much. Don't be fooled! It's mainly a confidence issue.

My theory is this: there is something about Joe Mazzulla that **** so thoroughly with talented young player's heads. If they can stick through the mind games and make it past the Mazzulla litmus test, they have a chance with the team.

That's the answer. It's Psycho Joe. If Jaden sticks with it, he'll eventually get his Pritchard moment. But not until he completes Mazzulla boot camp.

At some point, Jaden will have some signature moment where he like, rips the ball out of Embiid's hands and pushes the ball up the floor. Everyone will suddenly be all, "OMG love this guy!" We're seeing some signs with Walsh already. Springer just needs to be patient and keep proving himself to coach, and his turn will come.

[31to6]

I think Walsh's wingspan, wiry strength, and quick-twitch athleticism make whatever interest I was trying to develop in Springer a moot point. Jordan has the inside track to developmental wing -- defense, hustle, and corner 3 division.

In all seriousness, we already had Walsh on the team when Brad traded for Springer. So clearly, he felt like there was room on the team for both. Probably because they play different positions - Walsh is more of a 4 who can maybe play some 3. Springer is more of a 2 who can maybe play some 3.

Or perhaps he just figured, why not acquire both of them, knowing that odds are probably only 1 of them pans out and you can just trade the other one later (or just not resign them in free agency).

Jaden doesn't have the build or the game to give him a path to make an impact here. He looks like a decent college cornerback trying to play the wrong sport.

It's funny, Dalen Terry is a similar player but the discourse is so much different (more positive) around him.

You could take this tweet, put Springer's name instead of Terry and it would work the same..you could also easily find a clip of Springer making a similar play to the one Terry makes here:

Read on Twitter

The discourse around Springer is also different outside of this forum:


Also, what's wrong with Jaden's build? He's very well built, sturdy, strong. He's got more of an NBA body than Walsh has - and more athletic.

1. I think Walsh and Springer are both 'wings' -- maybe Jaden is more of a pure '2' and Walsh more of a 3/2, but at 6'7" 205lbs I don't think he's a '4'! BBallref tracking has Jordan's 112 career regular season minutes so far categorized as 20% 2, 60% 3, and 20% 4.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/walshjo01.html
For comparison, Jaden 609 career RS minutes = 36% 1, 55% 2, 10% 3
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/sprinja01.html

So "Walsh is more of a 4 who can maybe play some 3" is, for now, demonstrably false.

2. Walsh has developed to the point he's getting some consideration for 'fill-in' rotation minutes; Springer hasn't. So the way Stevens + Co played their cards here could totally be what you suggested -- and sensible. I'm not saying it was a mistake to acquire Springer, just that I think he's very unlikely to have a future here going forward.

3. Springer is shorter and stubbier than Walsh, which is why I much prefer Walsh's build and athleticism for the wing defender role. Walsh has a 7'2" wingspan compared to Jaden's 6'7.5". Walsh can get off the ground and slither and stretch -- Jaden moves more like a block. A strong block, but I'd say he has a nice strong frame for most levels of basketball short of the NBA, especially on a competitor designed to try to switch almost everything. Walsh looks like a candidate to do that -- especially if he can eventually add a few more pounds of muscle.

4. I don't know who Dalen Terry is and will not Google it, because I was just stating my preference for Walsh over Springer, which is a thing I'm entitled to do on a message board, and sure there's like a 1-in-20 or heck 1-in-10 chance I'm wrong, and if so I'll own it.

[Hal14]

Springer seems to be infected with "Not Lonnie Walker Syndrome". His stock is so low right now, and the little playing time has not done anything to dissuade that opinion for most.

As there will be options at the trade deadline, including Scrubb fitting in somehow. Until then, I'm happy to see how things develop with Springer.

I'm not buying the current narrative about him. I've seen what he's done in 2022 and 2023 and there needs to be an explanation as to why he's apparently fallen off so much. Don't be fooled! It's mainly a confidence issue.

My theory is this: there is something about Joe Mazzulla that **** so thoroughly with talented young player's heads. If they can stick through the mind games and make it past the Mazzulla litmus test, they have a chance with the team.

That's the answer. It's Psycho Joe. If Jaden sticks with it, he'll eventually get his Pritchard moment. But not until he completes Mazzulla boot camp.

At some point, Jaden will have some signature moment where he like, rips the ball out of Embiid's hands and pushes the ball up the floor. Everyone will suddenly be all, "OMG love this guy!" We're seeing some signs with Walsh already. Springer just needs to be patient and keep proving himself to coach, and his turn will come.

You might have a valid point and I applaud you for bringing a fresh perspective to the springer/lonnie discussion because it's getting to the point where so many of us (myself included, maybe) are beating a dead horse, regurgitating the same stuff over and over

If we think about it:
-Springer was a 5 star recruit, coming out of HS at IMG Academy (where other NBA players like Keyonte George, Jett Howard, Jarace Walker, Moussa Diabate, etc. played) so of course played for a different coach there
-He was excellent in college, playing at Tennessee for Rick Barnes (who coached Kevin Durant, Grant Williams, Lamarcus Aldridge, Dalton Knecht, Tristan Thompson, DJ Augustin and many others when they were in college)
-He was buried on the bench (and in G league) when Doc Rivers coached Philly
-He started to turn the corner and contribute in meaningful mins during Nick Nurse's 1st season coaching Philly
-He was awesome in summer league 2024 for the celtics summer league team, which was coached by DJ Macleay
-He has yet to crack the rotation while coached by Mazzulla

So he has been really good under most of the coaches he's played for. So perhaps you're on to something. Maybe Springer will never work out here but maybe it'll just take some more time for him to get on Mazzulla's good size.

It does seem like Mazzulla has a strong preference for playing vets and playing guys who have more experience with the team and have more time getting used to the Celtics systems, schemes..

Keep in mind, out of everyone on our 15 man roster, Springer is the 2nd youngest player. And while Walsh is younger than Springer, Walsh has more experience with the team (Walsh has 1 full season under his belt w/ BOS, 2 full summer leagues, 2 full training camps, it's been 16.5 months since the team acquired him compared to Springer who has 0 full seasons under his belt with BOS, 0 full summer leagues - only played in 1 SL game, 1 full training camp and just 8.5 months since he was acquired by the team)

[Hal14]

1. I think Walsh and Springer are both 'wings' -- maybe Jaden is more of a pure '2' and Walsh more of a 3/2, but at 6'7" 205lbs I don't think he's a '4'! BBallref tracking has Jordan's 112 career regular season minutes so far categorized as 20% 2, 60% 3, and 20% 4.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/walshjo01.html
For comparison, Jaden 609 career RS minutes = 36% 1, 55% 2, 10% 3
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/sprinja01.html

So "Walsh is more of a 4 who can maybe play some 3" is, for now, demonstrably false.

This is 2024, the era of positionless basketball so it's a bit silly to make such a big deal about positions and do all of that research on basketball reference.

But you looked those basketball reference numbers up and I'd say the fact that Springer has played that many mins at the 1 and Walsh has played that many mins at the 4 does tell me that there's not a ton of overlap between them from a positional standpoint.

Also, if we form our options moreso by watching the game and less on what basketball reference says, I think anyone watching the game the other night vs the Bucks would tell you that Walsh was basically playing the exact role that Brissett played last season. What position did Brissett play last season? Pretty much exclusively at the 4 and even played some mins in the playoff series vs Indy as a small ball 5 (i don't care what basketball reference says, that's what my eyes tell me from watching).

Basketball reference data aside, what I see with my eyes is that Walsh has the quickness of a SF/PF, not a 2...he's a very good rebounder, and he's got (as you pointed out) a 7'2" wingspan..he's limited in terms of shooting and ball handling...he plays tough, physical, more effective near the basket, less effective out on the perimeter. Sure sounds like a PF who can maybe play some 3 to me.

Meanwhile, some of the guys I compare Springer to are like Bruce Brown, Gary Payton II and Deanthony Melton. If you think that those 3 guys are same position as Oshae Brisett, then I don't know what to tell you.

But again, it's 2024, the era of (somewhat) positionless basketball so it's silly to make too big a deal out of positions.

Bottom line is Brad traded for Springer even though we already had Walsh so it seems pretty clear to me that he saw value in having both on the team which was my main point..that we can have both, instead of debating which of them is better.

I don't know who Dalen Terry is and will not Google it, because I was just stating my preference for Walsh over Springer, which is a thing I'm entitled to do on a message board, and sure there's like a 1-in-20 or heck 1-in-10 chance I'm wrong, and if so I'll own it.

You're obviously entitled to that opinion. Although it's not really necessary to explain that opinion with such detail, since I'm not even debating that Springer is better. I simply said, why not both?

[31to6]

1. I think Walsh and Springer are both 'wings' -- maybe Jaden is more of a pure '2' and Walsh more of a 3/2, but at 6'7" 205lbs I don't think he's a '4'! BBallref tracking has Jordan's 112 career regular season minutes so far categorized as 20% 2, 60% 3, and 20% 4.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/walshjo01.html
For comparison, Jaden 609 career RS minutes = 36% 1, 55% 2, 10% 3
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/sprinja01.html

So "Walsh is more of a 4 who can maybe play some 3" is, for now, demonstrably false.

This is 2024, the era of positionless basketball so it's a bit silly to make such a big deal about positions and do all of that research on basketball reference.

But you looked those basketball reference numbers up and I'd say the fact that Springer has played that many mins at the 1 and Walsh has played that many mins at the 4 does tell me that there's not a ton of overlap between them from a positional standpoint.

Also, if we form our options moreso by watching the game and less on what basketball reference says, I think anyone watching the game the other night vs the Bucks would tell you that Walsh was basically playing the exact role that Brissett played last season. What position did Brissett play last season? Pretty much exclusively at the 4 and even played some mins in the playoff series vs Indy as a small ball 5 (i don't care what basketball reference says, that's what my eyes tell me from watching).

Basketball reference data aside, what I see with my eyes is that Walsh has the quickness of a SF/PF, not a 2...he's a very good rebounder, and he's got (as you pointed out) a 7'2" wingspan..he's limited in terms of shooting and ball handling...he plays tough, physical, more effective near the basket, less effective out on the perimeter. Sure sounds like a PF who can maybe play some 3 to me.

Meanwhile, some of the guys I compare Springer to are like Bruce Brown, Gary Payton II and Deanthony Melton. If you think that those 3 guys are same position as Oshae Brisett, then I don't know what to tell you.

But again, it's 2024, the era of (somewhat) positionless basketball so it's silly to make too big a deal out of positions.

Bottom line is Brad traded for Springer even though we already had Walsh so it seems pretty clear to me that he saw value in having both on the team which was my main point..that we can have both, instead of debating which of them is better.

I don't know who Dalen Terry is and will not Google it, because I was just stating my preference for Walsh over Springer, which is a thing I'm entitled to do on a message board, and sure there's like a 1-in-20 or heck 1-in-10 chance I'm wrong, and if so I'll own it.

You're obviously entitled to that opinion. Although it's not really necessary to explain that opinion with such detail, since I'm not even debating that Springer is better. I simply said, why not both?

Hal:
"Walsh is more of a 4 who can maybe play some 3"

Also Hal:
"This is 2024, the era of positionless basketball so it's a bit silly to make such a big deal about positions and do all of that research on basketball reference."

Then Hal:
wall of text that I'm not reading

Hal, please don't bother responding to me. I almost always find it tiresome. I have enjoyed interacting with probably hundreds of members of this board over almost 20 years now, yet I hesitate to post my damn opinions now -- ESPECIALLY JADEN SPRINGER -- because I know it will trigger you and generate walls of text. And then YOU have the audacity to rag on me for doing "all of that research on basketball reference" whatever man, enjoy your eye test, and writing us tomes about Edy Tavares. Remember the "new Hal" who was going to be "more like Switzerland" or whatever? That was an interesting commitment, showed some self-awareness that I'd encourage you to continue to reflect on.

[31to6]

I know I run the risk of triggering Hal with this, but Jaden continues to not look very good at NBA basketball

me, two days ago

Hal: "why not both?"

[Fierce1]

It will be over soon.

Springer had his chance in training camp and preseason.

The 4m salary is just too big for a 13th man.

He won't be on the Celtics on or before trade deadline.

[Homerclease]

I know I run the risk of triggering Hal with this, but Jaden continues to not look very good at NBA basketball

me, two days ago

Hal: "why not both?"

The absolute worst, dude will gaslight anyone who doesn’t share the exact same opinion on a particular player and then turn around and write a masters thesis on Jaden Springer, Anton Watson, Lamar Stevens, Yam Madar, Moses Brown and countless other fringe guys that never amount to anything.

[shackles10]

It will be over soon.

Springer had his chance in training camp and preseason.

The 4m salary is just too big for a 13th man.

He won't be on the Celtics on or before trade deadline.

Not 100% sure on the last point, but yes to the first one, 100% to the 2nd point, and yes to the 3rd one as well. I think whether he's on the roster or not is how strongly the owners and Brad believe $4m is too much for 13th man. That also probably determines what they seek in return (another lotto ticket young player vs. a mid to low 2nd with no salary coming back)

[Fierce1]

It will be over soon.

Springer had his chance in training camp and preseason.

The 4m salary is just too big for a 13th man.

He won't be on the Celtics on or before trade deadline.

Not 100% sure on the last point, but yes to the first one, 100% to the 2nd point, and yes to the 3rd one as well. I think whether he's on the roster or not is how strongly the owners and Brad believe $4m is too much for 13th man. That also probably determines what they seek in return (another lotto ticket young player vs. a mid to low 2nd with no salary coming back)

Cs save 7m if Spring's contract is removed from payroll.

[shackles10]

It will be over soon.

Springer had his chance in training camp and preseason.

The 4m salary is just too big for a 13th man.

He won't be on the Celtics on or before trade deadline.

Not 100% sure on the last point, but yes to the first one, 100% to the 2nd point, and yes to the 3rd one as well. I think whether he's on the roster or not is how strongly the owners and Brad believe $4m is too much for 13th man. That also probably determines what they seek in return (another lotto ticket young player vs. a mid to low 2nd with no salary coming back)

Cs save 7m if Spring's contract is removed from payroll.

Right, so I think soon enough we'll see if it's about the $7M or if it's about what they're getting for $7M. Salary dump or another guy who is more worth the spending kinda thing... Who knows though I could be completely wrong and maybe Springer has naked pics of Wyc lounging in the grasses of Boston and he'll survive the season.