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2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation

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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#341 » by lilfishi22 » Wed Oct 30, 2024 5:26 am

Qwigglez wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:Denver is in real trouble.....29/18/16 from Jokic and a last second shot from him to force over time against the Nets. They even got good games from Murray and Westbrook


Yup. I think Denver has peaked. They don't have any kind of upward trajectory given their group of guys. Obviously, they go as far as Jokic takes them, but Murray hasn't looked very good to start the season, more like a fringe third option and they don't have the role players they used to.

Yeah MPJ seemed to have peaked. He was good last season and was healthy but Denver's strength, side from Jokic/Murray, were their supporting cast. Now that supporting cast what it once was and MPJ has not really improving beyond just a good role player/starter. Westbrook doesn't help and he'll probably be a scapegoat once again but the signing never made sense to me
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#342 » by They_Them_Hatin » Wed Oct 30, 2024 5:40 am

Made a thread about a center for cheap. Now I’m intrigued by Duop Reath. I remember he had a few decent games when the Blazers were tanking. I really think he can do well in Bud’s system.
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#343 » by sunsbg » Wed Oct 30, 2024 6:25 am

Nuggets have no depth. Mavs still ahead of MIN. A team with Gobert as 2nd best/most paid player is not winning anything. Such an overrated player. Got clowned in the playoffs by Mavs players dunking on him and hitting 3s in his face. Now watching on TV replay of their game and Gafford has scored 8 of Mavs first 13 pts. I trust Nurk more than this stiff. DPOY lol. Losing 0:4 to MIN is embarrassing despite being a dysfunctional team last year.

Gobert got blocked and then ball stolen on same possession lol. Edwards looks incredible though.
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#344 » by garrick » Wed Oct 30, 2024 7:17 am

They_Them_Hatin wrote:Made a thread about a center for cheap. Now I’m intrigued by Duop Reath. I remember he had a few decent games when the Blazers were tanking. I really think he can do well in Bud’s system.

I like him.

He can stretch the floor and rebound a little bit but he's not the best defensive center and despite his listed 245 lbs weight seems to get easily backed down in the post.

Unfortunately due to the 2nd apron rules it's going to be very hard to match the salaries dollar for dollar so we can't really trade for him.
https://www.spotrac.com/nba/phoenix-suns/cap/_/year/2024
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#345 » by AtheJ415 » Wed Oct 30, 2024 9:58 am

We should trade Nurkic for Ayton
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#346 » by Saberestar » Wed Oct 30, 2024 10:58 am

AtheJ415 wrote:We should trade Nurkic for Ayton

Not happening lol.
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#347 » by sunsbg » Wed Oct 30, 2024 11:12 am

Saberestar wrote:
AtheJ415 wrote:We should trade Nurkic for Ayton

Not happening lol.


Shame, motivated Ayton puts this team in the finals again. Just need to motivate him somehow. Is he up for a new contract ? :lol:
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#348 » by sasquatchBob » Wed Oct 30, 2024 1:25 pm

sunsbg wrote:
Saberestar wrote:
AtheJ415 wrote:We should trade Nurkic for Ayton

Not happening lol.


Shame, motivated Ayton puts this team in the finals again. Just need to motivate him somehow. Is he up for a new contract ? :lol:


We should kidnap his family and tell him he gets them back if he plays up to par
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#349 » by Fo-Real » Wed Oct 30, 2024 2:51 pm

sunsbg wrote:KD's been undisputed Suns best player so far. He shouldn't be playing 40 mpg though.

Between the other two stars I'd say Beal's been 2A with Book 2B. Beal playmakes better and has better D numbers, so I give him the nod despite the talk of moving him to the bench. Based on his play for team USA Booker has more to give than just score(23ppg right now).

Our 3 and D players RO and RD have exactly the same ppg at 7.8.


Beal's defense has been low key EXCELLENT!! If It wasn't for that DEFENSIVE MONSTER rook DUNN ( :lol: ), stealing the defensive spotlight, Brad should get some notice. He is sacrificing his body doing it and may not make it the whole season healthy because of it but he is committed and seems to have bought in!
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#350 » by Fo-Real » Wed Oct 30, 2024 2:53 pm

sasquatchBob wrote:
sunsbg wrote:
Saberestar wrote:Not happening lol.


Shame, motivated Ayton puts this team in the finals again. Just need to motivate him somehow. Is he up for a new contract ? :lol:


We should kidnap his family and tell him he gets them back if he plays up to par


He would let them down!! :lol:
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#351 » by dremill24 » Wed Oct 30, 2024 4:34 pm

garrick wrote:
They_Them_Hatin wrote:Made a thread about a center for cheap. Now I’m intrigued by Duop Reath. I remember he had a few decent games when the Blazers were tanking. I really think he can do well in Bud’s system.

I like him.

He can stretch the floor and rebound a little bit but he's not the best defensive center and despite his listed 245 lbs weight seems to get easily backed down in the post.

Unfortunately due to the 2nd apron rules it's going to be very hard to match the salaries dollar for dollar so we can't really trade for him.
https://www.spotrac.com/nba/phoenix-suns/cap/_/year/2024


Suns dont necessarily have to match dollar for dollar unless they're trading with another second apron team. Portland, for example, isnt going to want to take on a bunch of extra money since they're close to the tax but they can take a bit extra back in deals if needed.
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#352 » by bwgood77 » Wed Oct 30, 2024 4:44 pm

Mr Puddles wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:S.S.S.S.S.S (Small Sample Size Stats to Start the Season)

Touches per game:
Booker: 57.5 (73.4 last season)
KD: 72.3 (71.0)
Beal: 53.3 (66.3)
Nurk: 49.8 (55.5)
Dunn: 17.0
Jones: 69.5

Massive drop in Book touches. But overall trend is most touches seems to be decreasing across the board and going to the PG's. KD is still largely consistent though.

Average sec per touch:
Booker: 3.82s (5.04s)
KD: 3.56s (3.47s)
Beal: 3.55s (4.22s)
Nurk: 1.73s (1.83s)
Dunn: 1.53s (na)
Jones: 4.47s (na)

Similar trends as above. Summary: ball isn't as sticky as last season

Average dribble per touch:
Booker: 3.10 (4.40)
KD: 2.28 (2.41)
Beal: 3.12 (3.79)
Nurk: 0.79 (0.75)
Dunn: 0.51 (fewest on the team)
Jones: 4.30 (na)

All good trends. Most players are taking less dribbles with each possession which means the ball is either going up quicker or it's moving to another player sooner.

Pts per touch:
Booker: .400 (.369)
KD: .401 (.378)
Beal: .338 (.272)
Nurk: .176 (.197)
Dunn: .456
Jones: 0.144

Interesting thing here so far is despite the ball being in the hands of our players less, less dribbles are taken and overall players are touching the ball less, they are leading to more scoring.

Post ups:
KD: 1.8 (2.9)
Nurk: 3.0 (2.7)

Biggest thing here seems to be the fewer post touches for KD. While they were effective, I felt like they massively slowed town the pace of the game.


Not playing booker as a PG is probably the key reason for the drop in touches.

Also Dunn's high points per touch and low dribbles per touch meets the eye test in terms of him finding the open spots.


I feel like KD's seconds per touch and dribbles are all (or most) related to iso, but most of Beal's are bringing the ball up, or driving and dishing, while Book brings it up on occasion too, but he iso's too (though not as much as KD).
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#353 » by ChuckS » Wed Oct 30, 2024 4:45 pm

lilfishi22 wrote:S.S.S.S.S.S (Small Sample Size Stats to Start the Season)

Touches per game:
Booker: 57.5 (73.4 last season)
KD: 72.3 (71.0)
Beal: 53.3 (66.3)
Nurk: 49.8 (55.5)
Dunn: 17.0
Jones: 69.5

Massive drop in Book touches. But overall trend is most touches seems to be decreasing across the board and going to the PG's. KD is still largely consistent though.

Average sec per touch:
Booker: 3.82s (5.04s)
KD: 3.56s (3.47s)
Beal: 3.55s (4.22s)
Nurk: 1.73s (1.83s)
Dunn: 1.53s (na)
Jones: 4.47s (na)

Similar trends as above. Summary: ball isn't as sticky as last season

Average dribble per touch:
Booker: 3.10 (4.40)
KD: 2.28 (2.41)
Beal: 3.12 (3.79)
Nurk: 0.79 (0.75)
Dunn: 0.51 (fewest on the team)
Jones: 4.30 (na)

All good trends. Most players are taking less dribbles with each possession which means the ball is either going up quicker or it's moving to another player sooner.

Pts per touch:
Booker: .400 (.369)
KD: .401 (.378)
Beal: .338 (.272)
Nurk: .176 (.197)
Dunn: .456
Jones: 0.144

Interesting thing here so far is despite the ball being in the hands of our players less, less dribbles are taken and overall players are touching the ball less, they are leading to more scoring.

Post ups:
KD: 1.8 (2.9)
Nurk: 3.0 (2.7)

Biggest thing here seems to be the fewer post touches for KD. While they were effective, I felt like they massively slowed town the pace of the game.


Great post. I was about to address another, expressing minor concern about KD isos, My research left Beal out because of his limited time last year in a new system. I didn't post it because I feel like too much of a KD acolyte sometimes. I also think his ISO's are less harmful, if at all, than believed by some, and his post ups to be too few to worry about. They most come (IMO) in the flow of the offense, and usually when we are in need, and Coach and every player knows who should be getting the ball. Your post more definitively shows that to be KD and Booker. I believe that this year Beal will be another prime option. I just would like to add one more general measure to what you provided.

KD and Book were tied for sixth in the league for per game scoring last year. But they were respectively 30th and 23d in usage. Needless to say that not many that are their equal are that low. They were 33d and 24th in % of field goals attempted, and 20th and 33d for percent of field goals made. Because of the small sample size, I left Booker out for this year. His current numbers do not reflect what I know will be his production by year's end. But KD is currently 7th in scoring while being 40th in usage, 45th in % of FG attempts, and 34th in % of field goals made.

I see this as the Suns getting more points from their superstars with less ball dominance. I cannot understand anyone thinking they could actually be hurting the offense. I like good team balance or I might even think they should shoot more. I still do sometimes, though.
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#354 » by bwgood77 » Wed Oct 30, 2024 4:51 pm

lilfishi22 wrote:Denver is in real trouble.....29/18/16 from Jokic and a last second shot from him to force over time against the Nets. They even got good games from Murray and Westbrook


I wouldn't be terribly concerned if I was them or other good teams with slow starts. It's so early. In 2006-7, we started 1-5 and then had winning streaks of 15 and 17 and before you know it, we were 36-8 and ended up with the 2nd best record in the league.

The same year, the Mavs started 0-4 and then had winning streaks of 12, 13, 8, 17 and 9 and before you know it, they were 61-11 and ended with the best record in the NBA.

I think Denver is a little worse, having lost KCP, but they still have their core. I'm not sure Dallas is much worse, but I imagine them losing DJJ hurts defensively in the long run. But Lively is still developing and they have a nice C rotation, and a lot of guys who can shoot. And are solid rebounding with the Cs, Luka and PJ.

I do think Denver finishes 5th or so but I won't be surprised if they make the 2nd round again like last year.
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#355 » by bwgood77 » Wed Oct 30, 2024 4:55 pm

sunsbg wrote:KD's been undisputed Suns best player so far. He shouldn't be playing 40 mpg though.

Between the other two stars I'd say Beal's been 2A with Book 2B. Beal playmakes better and has better D numbers, so I give him the nod despite the talk of moving him to the bench. Based on his play for team USA Booker has more to give than just score(23ppg right now).

Our 3 and D players RO and RD have exactly the same ppg at 7.8.


I thought Book would be a little more energetic on D, and would be one of our better defenders. I also was surprised Beal was on LeBron and figured Booker would be since he's bigger and did what he did in the olympics. But Beal did really well on him and was really active on D, and is averaging 1.7 stl and 1 block a game. I know it's a small sample size, but like Book for his first 6 or 7 years, Beal has never been that good of a defender, but it seems he's really bought in on that end. And Beal has a bad 3pt shooting night the other night, but started so well from 3 in the first two games that he's still over 42% overall. He's definitely being more aggressive on both sides of the ball.
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#356 » by ImNotMcDiSwear » Wed Oct 30, 2024 5:22 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
sunsbg wrote:KD's been undisputed Suns best player so far. He shouldn't be playing 40 mpg though.

Between the other two stars I'd say Beal's been 2A with Book 2B. Beal playmakes better and has better D numbers, so I give him the nod despite the talk of moving him to the bench. Based on his play for team USA Booker has more to give than just score(23ppg right now).

Our 3 and D players RO and RD have exactly the same ppg at 7.8.


I thought Book would be a little more energetic on D, and would be one of our better defenders. I also was surprised Beal was on LeBron and figured Booker would be since he's bigger and did what he did in the olympics. But Beal did really well on him and was really active on D, and is averaging 1.7 stl and 1 block a game. I know it's a small sample size, but like Book for his first 6 or 7 years, Beal has never been that good of a defender, but it seems he's really bought in on that end. And Beal has a bad 3pt shooting night the other night, but started so well from 3 in the first two games that he's still over 42% overall. He's definitely being more aggressive on both sides of the ball.


I think the coaching staff has decided not to make Book go all out on defense during the regular season (or at least, until later in the RS), partly because of all the additional work he did this summer. Hard defense means sacrificing your body, taking hits. We know he's got a higher gear, but it's a long season.

Beal, OTOH, didn't play this summer, so they're challenging him to see what he can do on that end. At least, I think that's what we're doing. Like you, I've been impressed so far.
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#357 » by bwgood77 » Wed Oct 30, 2024 5:47 pm

ImNotMcDiSwear wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
sunsbg wrote:KD's been undisputed Suns best player so far. He shouldn't be playing 40 mpg though.

Between the other two stars I'd say Beal's been 2A with Book 2B. Beal playmakes better and has better D numbers, so I give him the nod despite the talk of moving him to the bench. Based on his play for team USA Booker has more to give than just score(23ppg right now).

Our 3 and D players RO and RD have exactly the same ppg at 7.8.


I thought Book would be a little more energetic on D, and would be one of our better defenders. I also was surprised Beal was on LeBron and figured Booker would be since he's bigger and did what he did in the olympics. But Beal did really well on him and was really active on D, and is averaging 1.7 stl and 1 block a game. I know it's a small sample size, but like Book for his first 6 or 7 years, Beal has never been that good of a defender, but it seems he's really bought in on that end. And Beal has a bad 3pt shooting night the other night, but started so well from 3 in the first two games that he's still over 42% overall. He's definitely being more aggressive on both sides of the ball.


I think the coaching staff has decided not to make Book go all out on defense during the regular season (or at least, until later in the RS), partly because of all the additional work he did this summer. Hard defense means sacrificing your body, taking hits. We know he's got a higher gear, but it's a long season.

Beal, OTOH, didn't play this summer, so they're challenging him to see what he can do on that end. At least, I think that's what we're doing. Like you, I've been impressed so far.


I can't imagine that they are telling Book to not play hard on defense. However, I can imagine he (and KD) are tired with less time off and are both not as active on defense because their bodies haven't been rested enough. KD is probably playing too many minutes.
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#358 » by dremill24 » Wed Oct 30, 2024 7:44 pm

Spoiler:
bwgood77 wrote:
ImNotMcDiSwear wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
I thought Book would be a little more energetic on D, and would be one of our better defenders. I also was surprised Beal was on LeBron and figured Booker would be since he's bigger and did what he did in the olympics. But Beal did really well on him and was really active on D, and is averaging 1.7 stl and 1 block a game. I know it's a small sample size, but like Book for his first 6 or 7 years, Beal has never been that good of a defender, but it seems he's really bought in on that end. And Beal has a bad 3pt shooting night the other night, but started so well from 3 in the first two games that he's still over 42% overall. He's definitely being more aggressive on both sides of the ball.


I think the coaching staff has decided not to make Book go all out on defense during the regular season (or at least, until later in the RS), partly because of all the additional work he did this summer. Hard defense means sacrificing your body, taking hits. We know he's got a higher gear, but it's a long season.

Beal, OTOH, didn't play this summer, so they're challenging him to see what he can do on that end. At least, I think that's what we're doing. Like you, I've been impressed so far.


I can't imagine that they are telling Book to not play hard on defense. However, I can imagine he (and KD) are tired with less time off and are both not as active on defense because their bodies haven't been rested enough. KD is probably playing too many minutes.


Its just a tough part of the roster construction that there arent enough high level defenders that you want playing big minutes around KD/Book so unfortunately its more detrimental when they're not locked in defensively than it is for other star offensive players who have great defenders around them.
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#359 » by Saberestar » Wed Oct 30, 2024 7:48 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
ImNotMcDiSwear wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
I thought Book would be a little more energetic on D, and would be one of our better defenders. I also was surprised Beal was on LeBron and figured Booker would be since he's bigger and did what he did in the olympics. But Beal did really well on him and was really active on D, and is averaging 1.7 stl and 1 block a game. I know it's a small sample size, but like Book for his first 6 or 7 years, Beal has never been that good of a defender, but it seems he's really bought in on that end. And Beal has a bad 3pt shooting night the other night, but started so well from 3 in the first two games that he's still over 42% overall. He's definitely being more aggressive on both sides of the ball.


I think the coaching staff has decided not to make Book go all out on defense during the regular season (or at least, until later in the RS), partly because of all the additional work he did this summer. Hard defense means sacrificing your body, taking hits. We know he's got a higher gear, but it's a long season.

Beal, OTOH, didn't play this summer, so they're challenging him to see what he can do on that end. At least, I think that's what we're doing. Like you, I've been impressed so far.


I can't imagine that they are telling Book to not play hard on defense. However, I can imagine he (and KD) are tired with less time off and are both not as active on defense because their bodies haven't been rested enough. KD is probably playing too many minutes.

KD is active on defense and playing with tremendous effort.

1 steal and 1.8 blocks per game and his one-on-one defense and help defense have been great.
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#360 » by ChuckS » Wed Oct 30, 2024 9:55 pm

Saberestar wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
ImNotMcDiSwear wrote:
I think the coaching staff has decided not to make Book go all out on defense during the regular season (or at least, until later in the RS), partly because of all the additional work he did this summer. Hard defense means sacrificing your body, taking hits. We know he's got a higher gear, but it's a long season.

Beal, OTOH, didn't play this summer, so they're challenging him to see what he can do on that end. At least, I think that's what we're doing. Like you, I've been impressed so far.


I can't imagine that they are telling Book to not play hard on defense. However, I can imagine he (and KD) are tired with less time off and are both not as active on defense because their bodies haven't been rested enough. KD is probably playing too many minutes.

KD is active on defense and playing with tremendous effort.

1 steal and 1.8 blocks per game and his one-on-one defense and help defense have been great.


I think he won the Clippers game when Coach put him on Harden at the end He "only" had a high of 25 points, but Lue threw the best defense against him I've seen since the Celts put a man on Irving and "the rest" on him in the playoffs a few years ago.

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