PG: Raptors choke away big lead. Scottie injured.

[JB7]

I don't quite get the "natural basketball play" explanation on Jokic's foul on Scottie. Are they trying to suggest that it needs to be intentional for it to be a foul? Because if so, that's just not true. That only matters whether or not it should have been a flagrant. It's still clearly a common foul.

There are tons of plays every game where a player is trying to make a "natural basketball play" on the ball that result in fouls. Every reach in or over the back or loose ball foul is basically this.

I don't even know that what Jokic did could be described as a natural basketball play. He is clearly trying to clear space with his left arm, because he is using his right arm to go after the ball, and it is going in the opposite direction of his left arm, when you watch the replay from above.

I imagine there was a bit of frustration from Jokic on that play, the way the Raps were hounding him for rebounds all game. I'm sure Jokic is plenty frustrated with how their season has been going, and losing to the Raps, and potentially going down 0-3, would add to that frustration.

I'm not saying he intentionally tried to hurt Scottie, and with the comments from Jokic after the game praising Scottie's play, I imagine he felt a lot of remorse for what ultimately happened.

[Scase]

I don't quite get the "natural basketball play" explanation on Jokic's foul on Scottie. Are they trying to suggest that it needs to be intentional for it to be a foul? Because if so, that's just not true. That only matters whether or not it should have been a flagrant. It's still clearly a common foul.

There are tons of plays every game where a player is trying to make a "natural basketball play" on the ball that result in fouls. Every reach in or over the back or loose ball foul is basically this.

If you occupy the space that is reasonably attributed to another player, the player swinging the arm isn't responsible for a foul. Accidents happen, stop looking so deep into it.

[aminiaturebuddha]

I don't quite get the "natural basketball play" explanation on Jokic's foul on Scottie. Are they trying to suggest that it needs to be intentional for it to be a foul? Because if so, that's just not true. That only matters whether or not it should have been a flagrant. It's still clearly a common foul.

There are tons of plays every game where a player is trying to make a "natural basketball play" on the ball that result in fouls. Every reach in or over the back or loose ball foul is basically this.

If you occupy the space that is reasonably attributed to another player, the player swinging the arm isn't responsible for a foul. Accidents happen, stop looking so deep into it.

I think you're actually the one looking too deep into this. It's pretty simple. Scottie was in his own space, not Jokic's. Jokic took a step back and swung his arm back. I don't think it was intentional or anything, of course it's just an accident, but definitely should have been a foul.

[Shakril]

I don't quite get the "natural basketball play" explanation on Jokic's foul on Scottie. Are they trying to suggest that it needs to be intentional for it to be a foul? Because if so, that's just not true. That only matters whether or not it should have been a flagrant. It's still clearly a common foul.

There are tons of plays every game where a player is trying to make a "natural basketball play" on the ball that result in fouls. Every reach in or over the back or loose ball foul is basically this.

If you occupy the space that is reasonably attributed to another player, the player swinging the arm isn't responsible for a foul. Accidents happen, stop looking so deep into it.

I think you're actually the one looking too deep into this. It's pretty simple. Scottie was in his own space, not Jokic's. Jokic took a step back and swung his arm back. I don't think it was intentional or anything, of course it's just an accident, but definitely should have been a foul.

I second that. It definitly was not a dirty play, just an unfortunate one. That non-call was the issue here.

[Scase]

I don't quite get the "natural basketball play" explanation on Jokic's foul on Scottie. Are they trying to suggest that it needs to be intentional for it to be a foul? Because if so, that's just not true. That only matters whether or not it should have been a flagrant. It's still clearly a common foul.

There are tons of plays every game where a player is trying to make a "natural basketball play" on the ball that result in fouls. Every reach in or over the back or loose ball foul is basically this.

If you occupy the space that is reasonably attributed to another player, the player swinging the arm isn't responsible for a foul. Accidents happen, stop looking so deep into it.

I think you're actually the one looking too deep into this. It's pretty simple. Scottie was in his own space, not Jokic's. Jokic took a step back and swung his arm back. I don't think it was intentional or anything, of course it's just an accident, but definitely should have been a foul.

All 3 of them were occupying the same space. Scottie jumped forward for a rebound, Jokic and Jak jumped back because that's where the ball was going.

The real foul was Jokic on Jak before Scottie got hit.

[JB7]

Read on Twitter

From this angle, it looks pretty clear that Jokic was trying to clear out Scottie, while battling Yak for the rebound, because his left arm is going in the opposite direction of his right arm, that is going for the ball.

That left forearm needed to go out with decent force, if it caused Scottie to suffer a concussion. Scottie didn't jump into Jokic's forearm.

[aminiaturebuddha]

If you occupy the space that is reasonably attributed to another player, the player swinging the arm isn't responsible for a foul. Accidents happen, stop looking so deep into it.

I think you're actually the one looking too deep into this. It's pretty simple. Scottie was in his own space, not Jokic's. Jokic took a step back and swung his arm back. I don't think it was intentional or anything, of course it's just an accident, but definitely should have been a foul.

All 3 of them were occupying the same space. Scottie jumped forward for a rebound, Jokic and Jak jumped back because that's where the ball was going.

The real foul was Jokic on Jak before Scottie got hit.

I'm not sure how you can say all three were occupying the same space when Scottie's leg is barely in that picture. In the video he doesn't come into Jokic's space at all, unless you consider the extension of his arm to be "his space".

But whatever, it doesn't really matter now. Scottie is now out for at least three weeks and it just really sucks that we still won't get a chance to actually see the BBQ+Dick+Poeltl lineup. The rebuilding process would be much more enjoyable if we actually got to see these guys build together.

[binjumper]

I was scared thinking we'd win. Beating Philly sucked. We need these tight games where we play hard but lose. Let's go Lottery!

You want us to go 0-82 this season?

That's improbable, but the point of season is to grow and the record is meaningless. This team won't make the playoffs. They rather try out players in situations and lose a game to gain in development. Why not add a high-end talent in this years deep draft.

[Dalek]

I think people see the funny little horse videos and think Jokic is a great guy. But he is also the guy who cheap-shotted Markieff Morris who got whiplash and lost more than four months to recovery.

Joker got a single game suspension for that. Now he took out Scottie who is out at least a month from a head shot which the NBA is normally strict about.

The NBA is just not applying rules in a fair way that protects players.

[Scase]

I think people see the funny little horse videos and think Jokic is a great guy. But he is also the guy who cheap-shotted Markieff Morris who got whiplash and lost more than four months to recovery.

Joker got a single game suspension for that. Now he took out Scottie who is out at least a month from a head shot which the NBA is normally strict about.

The NBA is just not applying rules in a fair way that protects players.

Eh the rules being applied are definitely based on intent though. Jokic made no attempt to conceal that push, he clearly didn't have the same intent with the elbow. He was rebounding during a live ball, not shoving someone at centre court after a whistle.

Apples and oranges. I can understand people thinking he should've at least been called for a foul, but a suspension is a bit much.

I think you're actually the one looking too deep into this. It's pretty simple. Scottie was in his own space, not Jokic's. Jokic took a step back and swung his arm back. I don't think it was intentional or anything, of course it's just an accident, but definitely should have been a foul.

All 3 of them were occupying the same space. Scottie jumped forward for a rebound, Jokic and Jak jumped back because that's where the ball was going.

The real foul was Jokic on Jak before Scottie got hit.

I'm not sure how you can say all three were occupying the same space when Scottie's leg is barely in that picture. In the video he doesn't come into Jokic's space at all, unless you consider the extension of his arm to be "his space".

But whatever, it doesn't really matter now. Scottie is now out for at least three weeks and it just really sucks that we still won't get a chance to actually see the BBQ+Dick+Poeltl lineup. The rebuilding process would be much more enjoyable if we actually got to see these guys build together.

I wasn't suggesting they occupied the same space in that picture man, I literally said the foul was Jokic on Jak, and then showed an image.

Here, them occupying the same space before the elbow.



It's a basketball game, this stuff happens.

[Mattatron]

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From this angle, it looks pretty clear that Jokic was trying to clear out Scottie, while battling Yak for the rebound, because his left arm is going in the opposite direction of his right arm, that is going for the ball.

That left forearm needed to go out with decent force, if it caused Scottie to suffer a concussion. Scottie didn't jump into Jokic's forearm.

Jokic is clearly not looking for a classical rebound, it's a tip out to pass the ball out of the zone. It's definitely not a intentional foul.

[canada_dry]

I think if you watch enough NBA around the league you’ll notice a lot of coaching mistakes if you put the microscope on folks.

That said, Darko has struggled with game management, but I actually think he’s done mostly well at that this year. He called timeouts at the right time yesterday. Same against Minnesota and Philly. Threw out some crazy lineups that actually worked in all three of those games. He’s done his job in three of our four games. The players need to do theirs (namely take care of the ball and hit FTs).

We aren’t even having this conversation if three of our players don’t go 1/2 at the line in the dying moments of regulation last night.

I mean yeah you can say we wouldn't have this conversation if some free throws were made...

But then we'd circle back around to Darko not having his best free throw shooter in the game in that situation.

Kinda underlines what we're talking about here.

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What are some of the other attention to details you think Darko is lacking?

So much. Sure you can say the timing of his timeouts have improved. Theyve improved from him being comatose on the sidelines to at least he calls em here and there. The rotations are still crazy. He put lineups out there that had people thinking it was obvious tanking moves. The team has a problem with being prepared, often times starting slow and find themselves trying to fight back. Big issue last year and has already happened a couple times here to start this season.

And beyond that...he kinda doesn't know the rules? The other day he called a timeout to challenge a non call? And the refs had to let him know hey, you can't challenge non calls. You're the head coach, You should know these details already. How many years into coaching challenges are we in now? Its not a novel concept anymore.

That was reminiscent of last year with the demar situation against the bulls when he was trying to run up the score innthe in season tournament...except it was the last game or 2md last game and we were effectively eliminated already and it actually wasnt helpful at all.

Just a bad look.

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[aminiaturebuddha]

I wasn't suggesting they occupied the same space in that picture man, I literally said the foul was Jokic on Jak, and then showed an image.

Here, them occupying the same space before the elbow.



It's a basketball game, this stuff happens.

They aren't occupying the same space in that photo either. Scottie is clearly beside Jokic, it's just his arms that are in contact with Scottie. I'm not sure why you're so dead set on this "same space" defence.

And yeah, exactly, this stuff happens. It was a missed call. That's it. That's all anyone was saying. Of course it happens all the time.