Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions

[Ron Swanson]

It's a pretty big problem when you can't play two thirds of your entire frontcourt rotation together on the floor,

I do buy the Brook/Bobby metrics though. They pass the eye test. Those two guys ironically are working better together on the court than when you add Giannis in there.

Sure, but playing those two together is still extremely matchup dependent. This all goes back to the offseason discussion around the question of "what happens when BOTH Brook and Bobby can't stay on the floor?" I'd argue that was the case at certain points Monday night against Boston. We kinda default to the theoretical Prince at PF small-ball lineup, which may work fine, but that question hasn't been adequately answered yet because Doc hasn't budged from these jumbo lineups as his constant go-to. They just aren't going to work against a team like Boston in 2024. They need to try something different.

[msiris]

It's a pretty big problem when you can't play two thirds of your entire frontcourt rotation together on the floor,

I do buy the Brook/Bobby metrics though. They pass the eye test. Those two guys ironically are working better together on the court than when you add Giannis in there.

Sure, but playing those two together is still extremely matchup dependent. This all goes back to the offseason discussion around the question of "what happens when BOTH Brook and Bobby can't stay on the floor?" I'd argue that was the case at certain points Monday night against Boston. We kinda default to the theoretical Prince at PF small-ball lineup, which may work fine, but that question hasn't been adequately answered yet because Doc hasn't budged from these jumbo lineups as his constant go-to. They just aren't going to work against a team like Boston in 2024. They need to try something different.

The problem is Doc is a dinosaur who is suck in the past. The game has passed him awhile ago.

[Brewhoopfan]

I do buy the Brook/Bobby metrics though. They pass the eye test. Those two guys ironically are working better together on the court than when you add Giannis in there.

Sure, but playing those two together is still extremely matchup dependent. This all goes back to the offseason discussion around the question of "what happens when BOTH Brook and Bobby can't stay on the floor?" I'd argue that was the case at certain points Monday night against Boston. We kinda default to the theoretical Prince at PF small-ball lineup, which may work fine, but that question hasn't been adequately answered yet because Doc hasn't budged from these jumbo lineups as his constant go-to. They just aren't going to work against a team like Boston in 2024. They need to try something different.

The problem is Doc is a dinosaur who is suck in the past. The game has passed him awhile ago.

Agree, but it's also Doc putting his best players on the floor. It's just not working. Doc can't fix the fact that the Bucks have two Jeremy Giambis, but no Billy Beane. Although, I'm not sure Doc recognizes the problem either.

[pifhluk23]

If the goal was truly a championship this year, Giannis should not have played for Greece.

[jute2003]

Doc needs to earn his paycheck and convince Giannis to adapt.

2/3s of Khris, Brook, and Portis need to be traded a year ago.

This is the only way.

[fansinceforever]

Trade wise, I'd still try to target Houston. Tons of young talent and they can't pay everyone. Maybe they'd be interested in a proven veteran scorer.

Bobby for Jabari Smith Jr
Or
Bobby for Tate/Eason

[ANTETOKOUNBROS]

I am having a day and after losing to the Celtics in expected fashion yesterday. I will take this opportunity to beat a dead horse as a Bucks fan since early 90s.

I am still livid *we gave up picks/draft capital* in addition to Jrue to get Dame. Jrue on his own was more than enough.

The piss poor asset management casts a long shadow, and now we live in the reality that is dawning on us years later that we would age horribly without any avenues for young talent infusion. Stuck in the nightmare of too good to bottom out but too flawed to be legitimate contenders all while sporting one of the highest payrolls and on the second tax apron. Nightmare because we can't bring in proper talent to complement our generational talent, Giannis who is entering his final prime years. What awful timing to be tapped out. What a painful time to be tapped out.

It all started with letting Jabari walk for nothing when he was worth something. It was at that moment I knew I could not trust Horst to manage our assets well to build something sustainable. Instead, he did what the Cavs GM did before LeBron joined the Heatles, built a fake contender full of spaceparts, old, flawed, over the hill types. It seems like those Cavs, we will not be able to do what's needed until Giannis leaves and we can properly construct a modern NBA roster again. Yes we won our chip, but that does not give us the excuse to be piss poor with our asset management and talent development.

I stopped reading when u said jrue and dame should have been valued equally...

I get being caught up in the moment but thats a brain dead take. Jrue was fresh off of getting absolutely abused by Jimmy Butler in the playoffs and there were rumors he didnt want to play much longer. Dame was fresh off a career season where he looked absolutely insane offensively.

To add: Giannis put severe pressure on the team to make a big splash move and there was fear he wouldn't extend. Not a single bucks fan gave a **** about jrue when we found out Dame was coming. Do you remember the sea of people that showed up when he got to Milwaukee for the first time?

So with that said... Yes, I wish it had been Khris. That would have always made more sense basketball wise and we would have likely saved some draft capital as Khris has always been more valuable.

The good news is... We can still trade Khris now if we want defensive help and draft capital. Do we have the balls? Idk

What gap Dame created on defense made losing Jrue not worth it. Remember all the reactionary decisions that occurred after Heat loss. Key point, reactionary. We were clearly buyers. We overpaid like usual and we are now older, slower, capped out and the ceiling is only getting lower.

[Ron Swanson]

We weren't winning another title with Jrue as the 2nd/3rd guy. I can't believe people have let themselves get brainwashed by the Ringer idiots and guys like Kendrick Perkins on that one. Look at Phoenix and look at Cleveland. Two teams with flawed defensive personnel that their two new coaches (one that we fired and another that we should have hired) have humming right now because they're not schematic dinosaurs and dudes who are "just there to manage personalities".

[PintSizedBox10]

It'll take a miracle to win a title under Doc.

[msiris]

We weren't winning another title with Jrue as the 2nd/3rd guy. I can't believe people have let themselves get brainwashed by the Ringer idiots and guys like Kendrick Perkins on that one. Look at Phoenix and look at Cleveland. Two teams with flawed defensive personnel that their two new coaches (one that we fired and another that we should have hired) have humming right now because they're not schematic dinosaurs and dudes who are "just there to manage personalities".

Thats why Jrue is fine in Boston He Is like the 3A or B or C guy. They are deep. People forget that he was not that good in the playoffs for us.

[Prez]

Jrue was an abomination offensively for back to back postseasons and in his last one in particular, also got his jaw broken on defense by Jimmy. Frankly even in the title run, his offense was stupidly streaky and we only withstood that streakiness because Khris was healthy enough to be a late game closer for us and Giannis went supernova in the finals. We were absolutely 1000% never going to come close to a title with Jrue still as a top 3 guy on the team. The clowns in the media can look at him being a supercharged role player on Boston and try to make us out to look like idiots for trading him, but the reality is trading for Dame was 100% the right move and I'd do it again all day.

The problem was always A) epically blundering on the coaching replacement for Bud when Atkinson/Nurse were right there, and B) the rest of the roster not being deep/versatile enough and Pat/Bobby in particular being turbo washed as impact guys (not that Bobby was ever really *that* impactful).

Seeing how physically fit Dame looks, and being confident that Giannis will get his **** together, I still feel good about the very top end of the roster. To me it just comes to what version of Khris we get, and are we able to shed Bobby for a backup big/forward that actually helps you win games.

[DingleJerry]

Jrue was an abomination offensively for back to back postseasons and in his last one in particular, also got his jaw broken on defense by Jimmy. Frankly even in the title run, his offense was stupidly streaky and we only withstood that streakiness because Khris was healthy enough to be a late game closer for us and Giannis went supernova in the finals. We were absolutely 1000% never going to come close to a title with Jrue still as a top 3 guy on the team. The clowns in the media can look at him being a supercharged role player on Boston and try to make us out to look like idiots for trading him, but the reality is trading for Dame was 100% the right move and I'd do it again all day.

The problem was always A) epically blundering on the coaching replacement for Bud when Atkinson/Nurse were right there, and B) the rest of the roster not being deep/versatile enough and Pat/Bobby in particular being turbo washed as impact guys (not that Bobby was ever really *that* impactful).

Seeing how physically fit Dame looks, and being confident that Giannis will get his **** together, I still feel good about the very top end of the roster. To me it just comes to what version of Khris we get, and are we able to shed Bobby for a backup big/forward that actually helps you win games.

Yup. And to the last paragraph I'd add the 'eye of the tiger' kind of has to come back. You can't just not care like you have the last 2-3 years with a 'eh whatever regular season doesn't matter'. Frankly I think that starts with Giannis. I'd give him a lot of credit for the great culture for that like 5 year stretch, his relentless effort on both sides had to trickle down. Now, his lack of effort, nonchalantness, joking about everything, also has to trickle down. And to be fair, its tough to maintain that for this long mentally, along with the physical toll its taken. So its tough to blame him too much, but it does matter as to why its been a crap environment for a while now

[Ron Swanson]

Honestly, if you can get a real 1st round pick out of Bobby before the deadline (not like, Top-20 protected then turns into 2nd's), I'd even take some junk salary back as long as they can give me 10-15 regular season minutes a night. Like, Memphis has all their picks for the foreseeable future, so when they realize the Edey experiment isn't gonna work and they just want someone more durable to play next to JJJ, would they offer up Brandon Clarke or John Konchar plus a future Top-5 protected 1st? At some point you have to start replenishing the asset cabinet, and I'd argue it'd be just as important to have an additional 1st to trade this offseason.

[Frank Nova]

Dame, Brook and Beauchamp to Houston.

Fred Vanvleet, Amen Thompson, Jabari Smith and Tari Eason to Milwaukee

Total pipe dream trade but saves almost 9m in cap, brings a total injection of youth, defense and shooting.

I’m not in the trade Dame camp but I think this trade makes the team better so I’d strongly consider it.

[MikeIsGood]

Honestly, if you can get a real 1st round pick out of Bobby before the deadline (not like, Top-20 protected then turns into 2nd's), I'd even take some junk salary back as long as they can give me 10-15 regular season minutes a night. Like, Memphis has all their picks for the foreseeable future, so when they realize the Edey experiment isn't gonna work and they just want someone more durable to play next to JJJ, would they offer up Brandon Clarke or John Konchar plus a future Top-5 protected 1st? At some point you have to start replenishing the asset cabinet, and I'd argue it'd be just as important to have an additional 1st to trade this offseason.

The problem with getting picks is - with our track record recently, what the **** are we going to do with them?

That doesn't mean I'm against it, but it makes picks a lot less exciting.

[ReginaldDwight]

Honestly, if you can get a real 1st round pick out of Bobby before the deadline (not like, Top-20 protected then turns into 2nd's), I'd even take some junk salary back as long as they can give me 10-15 regular season minutes a night. Like, Memphis has all their picks for the foreseeable future, so when they realize the Edey experiment isn't gonna work and they just want someone more durable to play next to JJJ, would they offer up Brandon Clarke or John Konchar plus a future Top-5 protected 1st? At some point you have to start replenishing the asset cabinet, and I'd argue it'd be just as important to have an additional 1st to trade this offseason.

The problem with getting picks is - with our track record recently, what the **** are we going to do with them?

That doesn't mean I'm against it, but it makes picks a lot less exciting.

I dont trust Horst with draft picks, dude clearly doesn't know what NBA talent is coming out.

[GrandAdmiralDan]

Jrue was an abomination offensively for back to back postseasons and in his last one in particular, also got his jaw broken on defense by Jimmy. Frankly even in the title run, his offense was stupidly streaky and we only withstood that streakiness because Khris was healthy enough to be a late game closer for us and Giannis went supernova in the finals. We were absolutely 1000% never going to come close to a title with Jrue still as a top 3 guy on the team. The clowns in the media can look at him being a supercharged role player on Boston and try to make us out to look like idiots for trading him, but the reality is trading for Dame was 100% the right move and I'd do it again all day.

The problem was always A) epically blundering on the coaching replacement for Bud when Atkinson/Nurse were right there, and B) the rest of the roster not being deep/versatile enough and Pat/Bobby in particular being turbo washed as impact guys (not that Bobby was ever really *that* impactful).

Seeing how physically fit Dame looks, and being confident that Giannis will get his **** together, I still feel good about the very top end of the roster. To me it just comes to what version of Khris we get, and are we able to shed Bobby for a backup big/forward that actually helps you win games.

I absolutely agree with all of this.

I loved Jrue Holiday, and always will, for his role in helping us win a championship.

It wasn't going to happen again. And I get so fed up hearing Bucks fans and media members say things like "we should have never traded Jrue"

Of course, these same media members, prior to that trade, had all been laughing at and dismissive of the notion that the Bucks had enough assets to trade for Dame and pair him with Giannis. We were told it was an absolute pipe dream. Somehow, Jrue Holiday's trade value when he was on the Bucks was scoffed at, but then magically the media changed their mind when Boston acquired him.

Infuriating.

Giannis needs to focus on playing more like DPOY Giannis. The effort and execution by Giannis on the defensive end has been embarrassing, and he sets the tone for this team. That's the biggest thing that needs to happen for the ship to be righted.

I would also move on from Bobby Portis. We need a more reliable defender in that role way more than the inconsistent and sporadic positives we get from Bobby.

[ANTETOKOUNBROS]

If we were going to trade Jrue, we definitely sold low adding in assets for Dame. That's what bothers me. We panic bought. Like everything else starting with firing of Bud when his brother passed. Panic, reaction, find old no bodies as a bandaid. Another season of Wesley Mathews? Jae Crowder? Why not? Let Donte walk etc. I am shocked Ersan is not back on the roster.

[ReasonablySober]

If we were going to trade Jrue, we definitely sold low adding in assets for Dame. That's what bothers me. We panic bought. Like everything else starting with firing of Bud when his brother passed. Panic, reaction, find old no bodies as a bandaid. Another season of Wesley Mathews? Jae Crowder? Why not? Let Donte walk etc. I am shocked Ersan is not back on the roster.

We did not sell low. We got Damian Lillard. There wasn't a single person who thought the Bucks gave up too much in that deal. If anything everyone was asking how the Bucks managed to pull it off.

[stillgotgame]

I do buy the Brook/Bobby metrics though. They pass the eye test. Those two guys ironically are working better together on the court than when you add Giannis in there.

Sure, but playing those two together is still extremely matchup dependent. This all goes back to the offseason discussion around the question of "what happens when BOTH Brook and Bobby can't stay on the floor?" I'd argue that was the case at certain points Monday night against Boston. We kinda default to the theoretical Prince at PF small-ball lineup, which may work fine, but that question hasn't been adequately answered yet because Doc hasn't budged from these jumbo lineups as his constant go-to. They just aren't going to work against a team like Boston in 2024. They need to try something different.

The problem is Doc is a dinosaur who is suck in the past. The game has passed him awhile ago.

This.
Prince is a PF, same way Crowder was last year. Giannis is a center.
Doc is clueless, making us even slower on defense.