The big man rotation

[Gant]

With Porzingis sidelined and Horford advanced in wisdom, the big man rotation is taking shape.

* Kornet is the #3 center. He's first off the bench and plays a seamless traditional role. Early in the season, when he's on the court the team has done very well extending leads.

* Tillman is next in the pecking order. But when he plays, it's almost always paired with another large person, making you think that Xavier Tillman is a (gasp) power forward.

* Queta is #5 in the rotation. Of note it does appear he IS just about in the rotation, a least more than Oshae Brissett was last year. When Hauser sat last night, it wasn't Walsh or Springer that filled those minutes, it was Queta. Effectively too.

Here's the current state of bigness: Porzingis is out. Horford is limited in playing time. Kornet plays next and fills in more than adequately. Queta spells both H and K, and gives the team a whole different feel. Tillman plays alongside any of the others.

The Celtics are so deep at center that they are capable of beating anyone playing their 3-5 big men. They're in great shape until Porzingis returns.

[playa-hater]

Not sure I like the double Bigs.. especially when it's Kornet and Tillman. as I said in the other thread I think Hauser cuts down the double Big lineup minutes some. But I agree Boston is set until KP comes back.

But I still think Kornet should start over Al. Al is a veteran and has taken Boston through some Key battles. But age catches up with everyone. That and Kornet offensively flows well with the starters. Especially cutting to the rim. Al just plants himself on the 3 point line and is now struggling to score in the paint even against much smaller players on switches and rolls to the rim.

Al will still have his moments, but I see much more consistency coming with Kornet and the starters.

Tillman seems like he can fill any role and his steadily knocking down threes is very encouraging.

Queta is a decent fill in. Think he is way more of a street fighter than a skilled Boxer when it comes to playing, but does bring the energy.

I actually think KP will only be needed for Elite teams and matchups.

Barring injury I don't think there is a need for a trade for a Bigman going forward.

[Dogen]

It will be interesting to see if the double big with Xman at PG takes shape. Early results indicate that Tillman can defend well at the perimeter, and if he's healthy after surgery may even be better. And his 3 ball looks good.

And Kornet apparently can shoot the three but hasn't really done so, acting more on pick and roll. He and Tillman can theoretically space the floor for cuts, but we haven't seen it in action.

I'd like to see a lineup with both, perhaps with one starter. Kornet/Tillman/Hauser/White/Pritchard? I don't recall ever seeing that lineup on the floor, but it's not bad at all. Good passing and shooting, maybe not the strongest defense but certainly playable.

[Celts17Pride]

It varies game to game. The Celtics are fortunate to have all five KP, Horford, Kornet, Tillman and Queta.

[playa-hater]

I think the Bigger questions are, can Either Kornet or Queta be our long-term solution when KP and Al leave?? Tillman can be Al's replacement (likely but not definitely)

Do you feel confident enough that Either Kornet or Queta can be a starting center for a championship level team? Or does Boston need to eventually upgrade at center to do win it all again??

[Parliament10]

With Porzingis sidelined and Horford advanced in wisdom, the big man rotation is taking shape.

* Kornet is the #3 center. He's first off the bench and plays a seamless traditional role. Early in the season, when he's on the court the team has done very well extending leads.

* Tillman is next in the pecking order. But when he plays, it's almost always paired with another large person, making you think that Xavier Tillman is a (gasp) power forward.

* Queta is #5 in the rotation. Of note it does appear he IS just about in the rotation, a least more than Oshae Brissett was last year. When Hauser sat last night, it wasn't Walsh or Springer that filled those minutes, it was Queta. Effectively too.

Here's the current state of bigness: Porzingis is out. Horford is limited in playing time. Kornet plays next and fills in more than adequately. Queta spells both H and K, and gives the team a whole different feel. Tillman plays alongside any of the others.

The Celtics are so deep at center that they are capable of beating anyone playing their 3-5 big men. They're in great shape until Porzingis returns.

I think that Tillman is more of a Power Forward. So that helps when he plays with another Big. He's also very versatile.
I believe that Xavier can be a Starting 4, but Not a Starting 5. He can replace the PF part of Horford's presence.

However, by the time Al finally retires, we do need someone else in the pipeline, so to speak, at the 5.
I think that the Biggest Question is: Who can fill-in for Porzingis, long-term?

We have Horford doing it now. But, what happens when both are not available?
Again, we need to be developing another Center.

Also, it could be possible to Start Kornet in the short-term, and perhaps Queta, in the longer-term.
Queta has a bit to go, in development, though.:

1. He has to reduce those Fouls.
2. Get the ball in the basket the first time. As opposed to having 3-4 Offensive Rebounds, on the same Play.
3. Maybe even get that occasional 3-Ball.

[Parliament10]

I think the Bigger questions are, can Either Kornet or Queta be our long-term solution when KP and Al leave?? Tillman can be Al's replacement (likely but not definitely)

Do you feel confident enough that Either Kornet or Queta can be a starting center for a championship level team? Or does Boston need to eventually upgrade at center to do win it all again??

As I said, in my previous post, Tillman can replace the Power Forward part, and much of the Versatility of Horford.
Queta may or may not, be able to be a Starting Center. He's got to Develop more, for that possibility.

Kornet can Start, for the time being.
But yes, we still need another Center.

[phincsfan]

With Porzingis sidelined and Horford advanced in wisdom, the big man rotation is taking shape.

* Kornet is the #3 center. He's first off the bench and plays a seamless traditional role. Early in the season, when he's on the court the team has done very well extending leads.

* Tillman is next in the pecking order. But when he plays, it's almost always paired with another large person, making you think that Xavier Tillman is a (gasp) power forward.

* Queta is #5 in the rotation. Of note it does appear he IS just about in the rotation, a least more than Oshae Brissett was last year. When Hauser sat last night, it wasn't Walsh or Springer that filled those minutes, it was Queta. Effectively too.

Here's the current state of bigness: Porzingis is out. Horford is limited in playing time. Kornet plays next and fills in more than adequately. Queta spells both H and K, and gives the team a whole different feel. Tillman plays alongside any of the others.

The Celtics are so deep at center that they are capable of beating anyone playing their 3-5 big men. They're in great shape until Porzingis returns.

I think that Tillman is more of a Power Forward. So that helps when he plays with another Big. He's also very versatile.
I believe that Xavier can be a Starting 4, but Not a Starting 5. He can replace the PF part of Horford's presence.

However, by the time Al finally retires, we do need someone else in the pipeline, so to speak, at the 5.
I think that the Biggest Question is: Who can fill-in for Porzingis, long-term?

We have Horford doing it now. But, what happens when both are not available?
Again, we need to be developing another Center.

Also, it could be possible to Start Kornet in the short-term, and perhaps Queta, in the longer-term.
Queta has a bit to go, in development, though.:

1. He has to reduce those Fouls.
2. Get the ball in the basket the first time. As opposed to having 3-4 Offensive Rebounds, on the same Play.
3. Maybe even get that occasional 3-Ball.

Keep on taking swings when you have the chance. Stevens hasn't shown an interest in taking a chance for a center just yet in the draft. Neems was a bargain basement estate sale type of pick up who may turn into something for the short term.

[playa-hater]

Time to bump this back up. Each of our centers not named KP brings different things to the table. And after tonight it would be easy to get overly excited about what Queta can do. But no matter what order you want Queta in. Or how many minutes he should get, it should be quite obvious he deserves to get far more playing time. He should never get 3 -4 games of DNP. He is literally the only "presence" down low. Sorry but Kornet is not at that level.

My opinion is let Queta play more than X and Kornet for the time being. Let him get comfortable. If after a few weeks he digresses, then make a change if necessary.

But give him a REAL CHANCE with some steady PT.

[Fierce1]

Time to bump this back up. Each of our centers not named KP brings different things to the table. And after tonight it would be easy to get overly excited about what Queta can do. But no matter what order you want Queta in. Or how many minutes he should get, it should be quite obvious he deserves to get far more playing time. He should never get 3 -4 games of DNP. He is literally the only "presence" down low. Sorry but Kornet is not at that level.

My opinion is let Queta play more than X and Kornet for the time being. Let him get comfortable. If after a few weeks he digresses, then make a change if necessary.

But give him a REAL CHANCE with some steady PT.

Yeah, I'm on board with that.

It's time Queta becomes part of the rotation.

Queta is just tougher and stronger than Kornet and way taller than Tillman.

[Hal14]

Time to bump this back up. Each of our centers not named KP brings different things to the table. And after tonight it would be easy to get overly excited about what Queta can do. But no matter what order you want Queta in. Or how many minutes he should get, it should be quite obvious he deserves to get far more playing time. He should never get 3 -4 games of DNP. He is literally the only "presence" down low. Sorry but Kornet is not at that level.

My opinion is let Queta play more than X and Kornet for the time being. Let him get comfortable. If after a few weeks he digresses, then make a change if necessary.

But give him a REAL CHANCE with some steady PT.

Yeah, I'm on board with that.

It's time Queta becomes part of the rotation.

Queta is just tougher and stronger than Kornet and way taller than Tillman.

I respectfully disagree.

1) Tillman has a 7'2" wingspan, is about 250 lbs and has an 8'10" standing reach so plays much bigger than his listed height (height-wise he only measured like a half inch shorter than Horford at the combine too).

2) I'm all for giving Queta some mins here and there, when it makes sense. He's proven to be solid (for the most part) when he's been in there last season and this season. *but* let's not get all wild and crazy about him over 1 game. Let's see the big picture. I seem to remember last season he was really good for a game or 2 and a few folks on here were getting Queta fever, demanding that he get more mins and claiming he's better than Kornet. But then Kornet outplayed him for a longer stretch of games, then we got Tillman who also played well and we pretty much never heard from Queta for the rest of the season..he was glued to the bench during the playoffs while we steamrolled our way to the championship - with both Kornet and Tillman contributing during the playoffs.

Between last season and so far this season, Kornet was good in way more games (reg season and playoffs) than Queta was. And Tillman was locking up Luka defensively in the finals and hitting a huge 3..and this season is shooting the 3 even better.

And in the preseason this year (and in summer league), there were moments where Queta looked *very* raw. Dropping passes, showing sloppy footwork, poor touch around the basket, committing too many fouls on both ends of the floor, etc. Meanwhile (in preseason, reg season, postseason) Kornet and Tillman (for the most part) don't do any of those things..they're more polished, less raw, they play mistake free basketball.

Queta is good. We have 5 good bigs. That's a good thing. With KP's injuries and Al's age, we obviously need all 5 of them.

Queta was solid tonight..he is usually pretty good..but I'm not ready to just give him all the mins over Kornet and Tillman..

[Fierce1]

1. Tillman is 6'7.50 w/o shoes and 6'8.50 with shoes.

Al is 6'8 w/o shoes and 6'9.75 with shoes.

I'm a fan of Tillman and I think he's very good defensively.

But he's just not a rim protector.

Queta is better in that aspect.

Right now Tillman is still the better player, but I think with more experience, Queta has the potential to be a starter in the NBA.

[Fierce1]

Let's see what happens in the back to back in Charlotte.

But I prefer Joe use Queta more than Kornet.

[ThePigeon]

I think that Queta bring to the table something that we lack since Williams III left - a rim protector, good rebounder and a dunker (Porzigis is a great rim protector but prefers to play away from the basket)
Kornet should be that guy but unfortunately he is too soft. He has his moments but he doesn't play to his size.
Tilman is totally different - something like an old school 4 with less offense down low and more defensive versatile

I hope Queta plays more consistent minutes to see what actually we have there. The guys know how to play with a guy like him.
And in certain matchups he can even be a game changer (IND, maybe also against DET)
He has a way to go but he needs to get the burn to get there

[jmr07019]

Advanced in wisdom is an excellent phrase

[Hal14]

1. Tillman is 6'7.50 w/o shoes and 6'8.50 with shoes.

Al is 6'8 w/o shoes and 6'9.75 with shoes.

I'm a fan of Tillman and I think he's very good defensively.

But he's just not a rim protector.

Queta is better in that aspect.

Right now Tillman is still the better player, but I think with more experience, Queta has the potential to be a starter in the NBA.

So Tillman is only a half inch shorter than Al without shoes..

Tillman is also about 5 lbs heavier than Al and has a longer wingspan too.

Tillman's career high blocks % is 4.2. Al's career high blocks % is 4.2.

Tillman and Al are decent rim protectors. Not great, but decent - serviceable.

Queta is a better rim protector, but there's a lot more to basketball than just that.

Lastly, I don't really follow the logic that Tillman is the better player right now but Queta has the potential to be a starter in the NBA..but you don't think Tillman has the potential to be a starter in the NBA? I'm not following that. I could maybe buy that if Queta was like some blue young 20 year old kid and was like 5 years younger than Tillman.

But that's not the case. Queta is 6 months younger than Tillman. They're basically the same age. Yet Tillman has already started 70 games (including 12 in the playoffs) in his career. Queta has 0 starts.

Tillman also fits our team better, since he can shoot and is much more switchable defensively. Plus he doesn't get called for fouls too much, and is much more sure-handed with the ball in his hands, makes quick decisions with the ball, quick passes to keep the offense flowing smoothly, makes instantaneous, seamless switches on D, etc.

Again, it's good that we have all 5 bigs. We need all 5 of them..

[Fierce1]

1. Tillman is 6'7.50 w/o shoes and 6'8.50 with shoes.

Al is 6'8 w/o shoes and 6'9.75 with shoes.

I'm a fan of Tillman and I think he's very good defensively.

But he's just not a rim protector.

Queta is better in that aspect.

Right now Tillman is still the better player, but I think with more experience, Queta has the potential to be a starter in the NBA.

So Tillman is only a half inch shorter than Al without shoes. Thanks for proving my point

Tillman is also about 5 lbs heavier than Al and has a longer wingspan too.

Tillman's career high blocks % is 4.2. Al's career high blocks % is 4.2.

Tillman and Al are decent rim protectors. Not great, but decent - serviceable.

Queta is a better rim protector, but there's a lot more to basketball than just that.

Lastly, I don't really follow the logic that Tillman is the better player right now but Queta has the potential to be a starter in the NBA..but you don't think Tillman has the potential to be a starter in the NBA? I'm not following that. I could maybe buy that if Queta was like some blue young 20 year old kid and was like 5 years younger than Tillman.

But that's not the case. Queta is 6 months younger than Tillman. They're basically the same age. Yet Tillman has already started 70 games (including 12 in the playoffs) in his career. Queta has 0 starts.

Tillman also fits our team better, since he can shoot and is much more switchable defensively. Plus he doesn't get called for fouls too much, and is much more sure-handed with the ball in his hands, makes quick decisions with the ball, quick passes to keep the offense flowing smoothly, makes instantaneous, seamless switches on D, etc.

Again, it's good that we have all 5 bigs. We need all 5 of them..

You're manipulating the stats.

Al has a career average of 1.2 blocks per game in 17 seasons.

Tillman has a career average of 0.5 block per game.

It was only the other game where we saw Tillman was no match for Giannis and how Al did a good job defending Giannis.

Main reason why Tillman will never be a starting Center in the NBA is he's just not tall enough.

But that doesn't mean he's not a good player.

[darrendaye]

Because I'm a tree hugger and believe in recycling...

So, roughly figuring out how minutes may go, here's where I am. 3 minutes floating around, lol. I lean to Tatum taking them at SF and playing either Tillman or Kornet a tick more. The 3 minutes at SF is a bit silly, but, the main idea is where the big men shake out pre-Porzingis.

PG: White (26/32)/Pritchard (22)
SG: Holiday (32)/White (6/32)/Hauser (10/22)
SF: Brown (33)/ Hauser (12/22) (3?)
PF: Tatum (35)/Tillman (13)
C: Horford (26)/Queta (14)/Kornet (8)

I am probably in the minority here But I don't want to play Al anymore than 20 Minutes per Tops. Probably less. I also would be really disappointed If Scheierman doesn't see regular every game minutes. Of course, Finding those minutes will be the Hard part.

I see Al getting high 20's while KP out, then high teens/very low 20's/rest days when KP is back, and ramped back up to high 20's as playoffs approach. His 23-24 MPG settled in at 26.8 from 30.5 the season before. I also think he gets paired with Tillman a good deal with Tillman taking on the more taxing defensive assignments.

Scheierman is going to be the interesting case, where do they play him defensively off the bat? I staunchly believe Tillman gets in the regular rotation. And the double big philosophy is still something this organization likes to employ. IMO we're at least at 50 big man minutes per and that's allowing for the idea that they will go big man less almost as much as they go double big. But I see them wanting to pair Al and Tillman for 12 or so minutes a game.

And Queta? CG commented on something I always consider, the ability to beat teams in different ways. You can say they didn't need him to win a chip, but a different year different playoff matchups, you might miss Rob Williams getting a few more scoring opportunities with elite level offensive rebounding and hustle plays. Queta is the only close proximity on the team. I'd be incentivized to do all I can to work him in, particularly with 4 starters for stretches. Not going to tank games to force it, but, think this team is strong enough to compete well in those stretches.

Kornet has such a veteran knowledge of the system and core players, he doesn't need much time to get chemistry. He's better suited to inconsistent playing time than Queta would. That's the spot I think becomes a rotating slot where wings get their 3pt shooting and defense auditions.

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[Gant]

There's only one double big combo that hasn't worked, and it very much has not worked.

Read on Twitter

[Homerclease]

There's only one double big combo that hasn't worked, and it very much has not worked.

Read on Twitter

It’s the new double big lineup with Theis that Brad refused to stop using. I think Queta has earned a larger share of minutes going forward at the expense of Luke and X. He’s not perfect but he’s so raw that he stands to benefit the most from consistent playing time