2024-2025 Regular Season Game 6: Orlando Magic (3-2) at Cleveland Cavaliers (5-0) - 7pm ET

[Knightro]

no disagreement on the likelihood of KCP going to the bench, especially this season. I'm just throwing out ideas that could potentially work without giving up a ton.

Here's another name that would be available for a somewhat cheap price: Brandon Ingram. There is talk that he wants a max deal though. I don't think he'll get it on the open market though.

I just don't think the Magic need to do anything right now, especially in response to Paolo being hurt.

Paolo healthy and Franz not sick and they certainly beat the Bulls and are 4-1 coming into tonight and everyone is thinking 50 wins with the greatest of ease, ya know?

Stinks that Paolo got hurt, but there's no reason to go nuts.

Franz is a player. Suggs is a player. Black is going to be a player.

Jett I'm a little less confident in because of how bad he is defensively, but he's an absolute gunner and will make threes at the very least.

Things are ultimately fine long-term.

[thelead]

no disagreement on the likelihood of KCP going to the bench, especially this season. I'm just throwing out ideas that could potentially work without giving up a ton.

Here's another name that would be available for a somewhat cheap price: Brandon Ingram. There is talk that he wants a max deal though. I don't think he'll get it on the open market though.

I just don't think the Magic need to do anything right now, especially in response to Paolo being hurt.

Paolo healthy and Franz not sick and they certainly beat the Bulls and are 4-1 coming into tonight and everyone is thinking 50 wins with the greatest of ease, ya know?

Stinks that Paolo got hurt, but there's no reason to go nuts.

Franz is a player. Suggs is a player. Black is going to be a player.

Jett I'm a little less confident in because of how bad he is defensively, but he's an absolute gunner and will make threes at the very least.

Things are ultimately fine long-term.

to be fair, I was talking about adding a piece before Paolo went down. I'm not really interested in a short-term trade. Any move that we make should to be about building towards a contending roster.

I'd want Ingram as a super-sub... long shot, I know...

[Knightro]

to be fair, I was talking about adding a piece before Paolo went down. I'm not really interested in a short-term trade. Any move that we make should to be about building towards a contending roster.

Well... given what they decided to do with the roster resigning everybody...

They're not really in a position to add significant salary anymore.

[thelead]

to be fair, I was talking about adding a piece before Paolo went down. I'm not really interested in a short-term trade. Any move that we make should to be about building towards a contending roster.

Well... given what they decided to do with the roster resigning everybody...

They're not really in a position to add significant salary anymore.

Trading doesn't really add significant salary though unless you're going to give the incoming player a massive raise soon.

I would argue that a lot of the resigned players are on optimal contracts for trades since they're essentially expiring contracts due to the team options for Mo, Gary, CoJo, and Cole (expires next year due to team option).

And while I'm not advocating for trading KCP, he is a piece that many teams would probably like to trade for.

[KillMonger]

who's minutes is tristan taking?

[thelead]

who's minutes is tristan taking?

Whoever is slated to be the 3rd worst guard in the dreaded 3-guard bench lineup. Either Jett or Harris when AB goes back to the bench.

[KillMonger]

who's minutes is tristan taking?

Whoever is slated to be the 3rd worst guard in the dreaded 3-guard bench lineup. Either Jett or Harris when AB goes back to the bench.

should be harris.....Jett defense was not good but he hit 3 3's one of the few guys on the team that was hitting....love what i saw from TDS, i'm going to assume he's not a good practice player but gets it done when the game is real otherwise i can't see why mose was sitting this kid.....i like his confidence as well

Read on Twitter

[eyriq]

who's minutes is tristan taking?

Whoever is slated to be the 3rd worst guard in the dreaded 3-guard bench lineup. Either Jett or Harris when AB goes back to the bench.

I'm hopeful AB never goes back to the bench.

[Knightro]

who's minutes is tristan taking?

Whoever is slated to be the 3rd worst guard in the dreaded 3-guard bench lineup. Either Jett or Harris when AB goes back to the bench.

I'm hopeful AB never goes back to the bench.

The issue with Black continuing to start is entirely related to Cole's complete collapse.

If Cole is so bad that he's simply no longer playable, then you basically need to split Suggs and Black up to ensure at least one ball handler is on the floor at all times.

It's not like the Magic could realistically run a Jett/Harris backcourt with both Suggs and Black on the bench, ya know?

Now that doesn't necessarily mean Black *has* to go to the bench, but it seems like it would make things easier rather than starting Suggs/Black and staggering them to the point where one of them is always on the floor.

[penny_nz]

Welp overmatched without Paolo tonight, going to be a long stretch

[eyriq]

Whoever is slated to be the 3rd worst guard in the dreaded 3-guard bench lineup. Either Jett or Harris when AB goes back to the bench.

I'm hopeful AB never goes back to the bench.

The issue with Black continuing to start is entirely related to Cole's complete collapse.

If Cole is so bad that he's simply no longer playable, then you basically need to split Suggs and Black up to ensure at least one ball handler is on the floor at all times.

It's not like the Magic could realistically run a Jett/Harris backcourt with both Suggs and Black on the bench, ya know?

Now that doesn't necessarily mean Black *has* to go to the bench, but it seems like it would make things easier rather than starting Suggs/Black and staggering them to the point where one of them is always on the floor.

Yeah, that makes sense. The situation with Cole is crazy.

[KillMonger]

Read on Twitter

If mose can have a "conversation" with cole this early, he can definitely have that conversation with gary...TDS can get his minutes

[penny_nz]

Read on Twitter

If mose can have a "conversation" with cole this early, he can definitely have that conversation with gary...TDS can get his minutes

That first game of the season seems like a loooong time ago

[Ducklett]

Just give the young dudes some burn. TDS and Suggs looked to be pretty good for the most part. Jett wasn't bad either. Learning experience for these dudes. If Paolo isn't 100% 0 pain healthy by January, just call it and hope we get Flagg.

[pepe1991]

You guys worry too much on which one of young players is going to play and for how long, in stage of rebuild where you should worry how to win games and who helps you achive that.

This game was competitive for about 240 seconds. After that , Magic never reached below double figure in deficit and only had 1 good sporadic run in 3rd quarter to come closer. For rest of a game it was poor offense and somewhat uncompetitive game.
Donovan Mitchell on his 9-15 FG night, ended up playing -22 min.

After first quarter Magic shot 8-23 FG and 0-9 for 3, on top of that they had 1 FTA.


Whole "don't get ballhandler, it would hinder development of Black" is crazy talk. 6 games into a season and Magic already trending into top 10 worst offense, right now at 19#.
Black is yet to show he is nba point guard, let alone starting guard, Suggs already proved he isn't point guard.


Just about any nba player , who plays from PG- PF ( even some Cs) can start at "point guard" in fashion current Magic players are playing "point guard". No dribble penetration, no mid range, no floaters, not putting pressure on defense, no pick&roll at all, just most superficial ballswings around defense that create next to nothing in terms of quality on offense.


Suggs 19 pick&rolls as handler, 16th percentile. 0,68 PPP.
Black 10 pick&rolls as handler, 21th percentile. 0,70 PPP

Anthony Davis, a damn center, 11 pick&rolls as handler, 32%' percentile, 0,82 PPP
Those pick&roll scorings from guards on set play make Kyle Kuzma look like love child of Stockton and Jordan.


Magic roster construction was alraedy problematic entering season with no guard creation nor guards who can put pressure on offense. Without Banchero this is highschool offense.
On set defense this team struggled to attack paint

Do you know how many shots Magic players made from 3-10 feet in first quarter? Non.
How many shots Magic made within 10 feet during second quarter? 4.

Play it simple, without Banchero, mostly because how limited Magic guards are, Magic offense turns into contested 3 point shooting with roster makeup that can't make enough shots. Team that does not create off pick&roll, puts no pressure on interior defense and roster where pretty much nobody can make some mid range shots or floaters to prevent predictability.


I don't want to turn this into "Schroder " debate. But Cole is unplayable, KCP and Gary Harris from skill POV are like Morris twins and neither can put ball on the floor . So you are left with Black and Suggs. In reality , your point guard body count is : zero.

You can't just sit around and wait for Banchero while team slipps into 5-10 games below .500 and pretend this problem wasn't problem with Banchero. It was. He just somewhat masked it. Without him , it becomes jarring.

[RookieStar]

no disagreement on the likelihood of KCP going to the bench, especially this season. I'm just throwing out ideas that could potentially work without giving up a ton.

Here's another name that would be available for a somewhat cheap price: Brandon Ingram. There is talk that he wants a max deal though. I don't think he'll get it on the open market though.

I just don't think the Magic need to do anything right now, especially in response to Paolo being hurt.

Paolo healthy and Franz not sick and they certainly beat the Bulls and are 4-1 coming into tonight and everyone is thinking 50 wins with the greatest of ease, ya know?

Stinks that Paolo got hurt, but there's no reason to go nuts.

Franz is a player. Suggs is a player. Black is going to be a player.

Jett I'm a little less confident in because of how bad he is defensively, but he's an absolute gunner and will make threes at the very least.

Things are ultimately fine long-term.

Im having a dark vision wherein Jett becomes a more shooting-less slashin Human Torch with us.

[RookieStar]

who's minutes is tristan taking?

Whoever is slated to be the 3rd worst guard in the dreaded 3-guard bench lineup. Either Jett or Harris when AB goes back to the bench.

should be harris.....Jett defense was not good but he hit 3 3's one of the few guys on the team that was hitting....love what i saw from TDS, i'm going to assume he's not a good practice player but gets it done when the game is real otherwise i can't see why mose was sitting this kid.....i like his confidence as well

Read on Twitter

Whats the context with TDS response?

[GelbeWand09]

Adding another guard who wants to dribble and initiate offense just takes the ball out of Black’s hands. Is that what y'all really want?

Even without almost any other ball handlers on the team (just let that think in for a second. We talk about a NBA Team) he still plays mainly like a 3&D player.
Even in a best case scenario for him, he still just lacks burst, speed, bounce & elite ball handling. Whe need a rim pressure guard, who can get anywhere on the court anyway in the future, if we wanna have success.
I like Black, he is a great defender, very good potential connector piece. I wanted him in the draft. I just have a hard time seeing him ever becoming a rim pressure player, a player that can break down defenses. But this is what we need. He at least needs to add a floater to his game to counter a bit of his speed disadvantage.

I can see AB becoming a great/elite roleplayer but I think he always gonna have trouble going to the rim without a pick or open lane. But with Suggs having trouble putting rim pressure too because of his lack of ball handling & feel/wiggle, we need a different kind of guard than KCP, no matter how good Black becomes within his physical limits.

The KCP signing just was a waste. It was clear from the beginning that he is gonna used exactly like Gary which means low usage, low-mid usage 3 point attampts and good defense & 5th option on offense. Waste of money having Gary Harris Sr & Gary Harris Jr now instead of anyone being able to dribble a freaking basketball.

[Bensational]

You guys worry too much on which one of young players is going to play and for how long, in stage of rebuild where you should worry how to win games and who helps you achive that.

<snip>

I don't want to turn this into "Schroder " debate. But Cole is unplayable, KCP and Gary Harris from skill POV are like Morris twins and neither can put ball on the floor . So you are left with Black and Suggs. In reality , your point guard body count is : zero.

You can't just sit around and wait for Banchero while team slipps into 5-10 games below .500 and pretend this problem wasn't problem with Banchero. It was. He just somewhat masked it. Without him , it becomes jarring.

Nah, this is the perfect excuse and opportunity to throw Suggs and Black both heavy minutes and reps as lead point guards and playmakers. We're already facing short term struggles, may as well live with it whilst guys learn to take on bigger roles. And with our small-ball personnel we should take a page out of Chicago's playbook and do what they're doing. The guys who are supposed to know how to win games (KCP and Harris) really have to step up with some consistency on hitting their shots.

Franz, Suggs and Black are our 'big 3' until Paolo gets back, IMO. We should figure out a way to make them (and the others around them) a cohesive unit.

[KillMonger]

Whoever is slated to be the 3rd worst guard in the dreaded 3-guard bench lineup. Either Jett or Harris when AB goes back to the bench.

should be harris.....Jett defense was not good but he hit 3 3's one of the few guys on the team that was hitting....love what i saw from TDS, i'm going to assume he's not a good practice player but gets it done when the game is real otherwise i can't see why mose was sitting this kid.....i like his confidence as well

Read on Twitter

Whats the context with TDS response?

i mean the question was asked if he felt comfortable out there.....and TDS chose to respond that way