2024-2025 Regular Season Game 6: Orlando Magic (3-2) at Cleveland Cavaliers (5-0) - 7pm ET

[pepe1991]

You guys worry too much on which one of young players is going to play and for how long, in stage of rebuild where you should worry how to win games and who helps you achive that.

<snip>

I don't want to turn this into "Schroder " debate. But Cole is unplayable, KCP and Gary Harris from skill POV are like Morris twins and neither can put ball on the floor . So you are left with Black and Suggs. In reality , your point guard body count is : zero.

You can't just sit around and wait for Banchero while team slipps into 5-10 games below .500 and pretend this problem wasn't problem with Banchero. It was. He just somewhat masked it. Without him , it becomes jarring.

Nah, this is the perfect excuse and opportunity to throw Suggs and Black both heavy minutes and reps as lead point guards and playmakers. We're already facing short term struggles, may as well live with it whilst guys learn to take on bigger roles. And with our small-ball personnel we should take a page out of Chicago's playbook and do what they're doing. The guys who are supposed to know how to win games (KCP and Harris) really have to step up with some consistency on hitting their shots.

Franz, Suggs and Black are our 'big 3' until Paolo gets back, IMO. We should figure out a way to make them (and the others around them) a cohesive unit.

Why it sounds so familiar?
Payton "just " needs to gain confidence in 3 point shot.
Fultz "just" needs to take more 3s and draw more fouls.

You can't really "learn " some skill, one you never showed to have ,in middle of a regular season, where wins are still top priority.

It's not like Magic lost 5 players, we are at 64th game , eliminated from playoffs.
We are 6 games in season, with 1 injury ( albet most important player) . But that said player will return this season, and this is last cheap season Magic will have in very, very long time from salary perspective.


KCP and Harris don't know how to "win " games, they are byproducts of systems who had luxury to spend majority of their careers around best players in the world. They are limited 3 and D role players. Nothing more. With worst rosters around them, they get worst looks, and "3" aspect of their game is dependent on other teammates, not them.


What makes Black "big 3" ?

8 points a game ,4 assist, 5 threes made over 6 games, 44% FG, no pressure on defense ?

He is one that should elevate his game to catch rest of a team up in terms of development, not hold team hostage ( wink wink Fultz, Payton) in blind hope that he will becomse something he today, simply isn't.

As Gelbe said, Black is tall and heavy player, by default he lacks foot speed and ability to shift gears to blow by set defenders, he is no treat in pick& roll, he has virtually zero mid range game ( has 0 points scored from distance between 10 feet and 3 point line ), has no floaters. He hardly scores in any way or fashion but transition and catch and shoot.
Nothing makes him playmaker other than internet fans desire to be one, and fundamentally broken roster construction that expects him to fill shoes of one.

I would argue, that even if he is much better version of himself ( a- la Lonzo Ball during his good years) , he would still be problematic for same exect reasons mentioned above.

Overall i like Black as player, i expected him and still expect him to be some bit less creative version of Lonzo Ball.

But that arhytpye of player, right now, due roster construction, without Banchero neither can be your "big 3 " nor will be help you win many games.

Tbh, if you look at schedule, staying around .500 until Christmas would be miracle. Way realistic is to expect to be 5 games or so below

[Bensational]

What makes Black "big 3" ?

8 points a game ,4 assist, 5 threes made over 6 games, 44% FG, no pressure on defense ?

He is one that should elevate his game to catch rest of a team up in terms of development, not hold team hostage ( wink wink Fultz, Payton) in blind hope that he will becomse something he today, simply isn't.

As Gelbe said, Black is tall and heavy player, by default he lacks foot speed and ability to shift gears to blow by set defenders, he is no treat in pick& roll, he has virtually zero mid range game ( has 0 points scored from distance between 10 feet and 3 point line ), has no floaters. He hardly scores in any way or fashion but transition and catch and shoot.
Nothing makes him playmaker other than internet fans desire to be one, and fundamentally broken roster construction that expects him to fill shoes of one.

I would argue, that even if he is much better version of himself ( a- la Lonzo Ball during his good years) , he would still be problematic for same exect reasons mentioned above.

Overall i like Black as player, i expected him and still expect him to be some bit less creative version of Lonzo Ball.

But that arhytpye of player, right now, due roster construction, without Banchero neither can be your "big 3 " nor will be help you win many games.

Tbh, if you look at schedule, staying around .500 until Christmas would be miracle. Way realistic is to expect to be 5 games or so below

I'm thinking a more half court version of Lonzo, because I think Black will eventually learn to get into the paint and operate from there a lot more. I don't think high-end scorer is on the cards for him, but I think he has the tools and physical versatility to learn some nifty moves.

As far as filling the gaping hole in our playmaking which Paolo's absence has left the team with, what other options beyond Suggs and Black are we presented with? There's no bandaid move out there which is going to be worth the cost in acquisition and integration.

So without a trade it comes down to Franz and Suggs to pick up the bulk of the slack, but they'll need help and after that the next obvious name up is Black. He's already shown he's deserving of more touches and an increased role, and he's been given one.

His game needs work, sure, and this is the time to give it all the work it can handle. Franz and Suggs still need someone to set them up now that Paolo isn't doing it.

[jezzerinho]

To me, there's only one course of action.

Start Cory Joseph.

Banchero won't be out long enough for Weltman to splurge his draft capital on a mediocre PG in a seller's market. So I think we can forget that option.

Franz might be sick, but we've seen enough of him as table setter to know it's not his forte. We'd all love for Franz to blossom into a monster in PBs absence, but he's probably not that guy. He can be very dominant within a game, but I don't thing he's ready to do a Harden and "be the system" as Paolo is asked to be.

So we need someone to help work him into his spots and facilitate general offense.

Suggs is really stepping up as a guy to make stuff happen, but not as a field general. Suggs is a SG on any playoff team worth its salt.

Black isn't ready to be that guy and have us compete for the playoffs. But there are flashes and it looks likely he can hold down the bench initiator role, with help from others.

CoJo is no worldbeater. I'm not under any illusions. But he's a competent PG who had a big down year last season. This Orl team needs someone who can get our offense set up and pick options. CoJo is the best we have on the roster to do that. When Paolo comes back, I have no issue in pushing him back to bench-end if he hasn't been amazing.

But right now Our offense is, frankly, OFFENSIVE.

[pepe1991]

This is why i would just roll Cole + some minor asset ( second round picks, or heavily protected first round pick) For Schroder.
It's not like Nets are blowing and he just stat padds his 20 ppg, 8 apg. ( efficient one)
They were 2-3 possessions away from being 5-1 right now, instead they are 3-3 . We are only team that gave them comfortable L.

Cole right now is unplayable, no matter how you cut rotations, you will always end up with deficiency in ballhandling either in SL or bench.

In same time Schroder is such a minor investment that you can escape , as he is expiring.

Cole, if he continues to play like he did so far, is negative asset anyway and carrying his salary further does nothing for you anyway.


You would be adding guy who is good friend with Moe and Franz, who is probably familiar with Black and Da Silva.

Cole 6 games into a season:
4-20 FG
1-10 for 3
1-3 FTs
13 assists on 9 turnovers
10 rebounds on 9 fouls

Playing 4 on 5 would probably hurt less than playing this version of Cole.

[ORLMagicGirl15]

On the bright side, this team put up 109 points without Paolo. That has to account for something when he gets back.

[Message Boar]

Honestly the thing Im worried the most is Isaac.....he was a big reason to us winning 47 games last year, he was a vital part of the bench just wrecking havoc. And he does not look the same.

I think FO wanted him to play more C so he can play more with Paolo and Franz but that's taking away his strengths. I rather him just be a one man wrecking crew on the perimiter than use him as a big.

Good observation. Hopefully he can turn it back around.

[Skybox]

You guys worry too much on which one of young players is going to play and for how long, in stage of rebuild where you should worry how to win games and who helps you achive that.

<snip>

I don't want to turn this into "Schroder " debate. But Cole is unplayable, KCP and Gary Harris from skill POV are like Morris twins and neither can put ball on the floor . So you are left with Black and Suggs. In reality , your point guard body count is : zero.

You can't just sit around and wait for Banchero while team slipps into 5-10 games below .500 and pretend this problem wasn't problem with Banchero. It was. He just somewhat masked it. Without him , it becomes jarring.

Nah, this is the perfect excuse and opportunity to throw Suggs and Black both heavy minutes and reps as lead point guards and playmakers. We're already facing short term struggles, may as well live with it whilst guys learn to take on bigger roles. And with our small-ball personnel we should take a page out of Chicago's playbook and do what they're doing. The guys who are supposed to know how to win games (KCP and Harris) really have to step up with some consistency on hitting their shots.

Franz, Suggs and Black are our 'big 3' until Paolo gets back, IMO. We should figure out a way to make them (and the others around them) a cohesive unit.

The way to do THAT is to give them the opportunity to play with a viable vet PG

[Skybox]

Just a reminder…our offense sucks WITH a guy that can put up 50 with dominant iso play.

Let’s fix it while he’s out (and we’re basically desperate) and it will be that much better when he’s back.

[The-Stallion70]

On the bright side, this team put up 109 points without Paolo. That has to account for something when he gets back.

Lotta garbage time points in this game

[ORLMagicGirl15]

On the bright side, this team put up 109 points without Paolo. That has to account for something when he gets back.

Lotta garbage time points in this game

Did you see the LA game vs. Cavs? It could have gone that way but Orlando kept trying, and they couldn’t put us away comfortably until the 4th quarter. So, I am taking this one. Especially since our team didn’t show up in the other Cavs games.

[VFX]

Just a reminder…our offense sucks WITH a guy that can put up 50 with dominant iso play.

Let’s fix it while he’s out (and we’re basically desperate) and it will be that much better when he’s back.

Basically this.

It’s the only real takeaway that will be overlooked because people will make excuses for illnesses or his injury.

This is what some of us were screaming all off-season about the KCP signing and re-signings of players that “fix” absolutely nothing.

Watching this team on defense is a treat.
Watching this team on offense is a chore.

There are probably 4-5 guys on this roster that could be moved and nobody would notice they left. This Front Office just doesn’t like making decisions and ultimately that is the reason the offense still sucks with or without Paolo.

[pepe1991]

On the bright side, this team put up 109 points without Paolo. That has to account for something when he gets back.

Lotta garbage time points in this game

Did you see the LA game vs. Cavs? It could have gone that way but Orlando kept trying, and they couldn’t put us away comfortably until the 4th quarter. So, I am taking this one. Especially since our team didn’t show up in the other Cavs games.

71-81 ,with 3 min to play in 3rd was last active result, still Cavs made some shots and closed 3rd on +18.

Up by 20 with 10 min to go.
Up by 19 with 5 min

Last 14 min was honorable garbage time, game wasn't close at all.

[basketballRob]

Whoever is slated to be the 3rd worst guard in the dreaded 3-guard bench lineup. Either Jett or Harris when AB goes back to the bench.

I'm hopeful AB never goes back to the bench.

The issue with Black continuing to start is entirely related to Cole's complete collapse.

If Cole is so bad that he's simply no longer playable, then you basically need to split Suggs and Black up to ensure at least one ball handler is on the floor at all times.

It's not like the Magic could realistically run a Jett/Harris backcourt with both Suggs and Black on the bench, ya know?

Now that doesn't necessarily mean Black *has* to go to the bench, but it seems like it would make things easier rather than starting Suggs/Black and staggering them to the point where one of them is always on the floor.

TDS in the starting lineup and AB on the bench makes the most sense. AB looks better running the point rather than playing SF.

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM mobile app

[ORLMagicGirl15]

Lotta garbage time points in this game

Did you see the LA game vs. Cavs? It could have gone that way but Orlando kept trying, and they couldn’t put us away comfortably until the 4th quarter. So, I am taking this one. Especially since our team didn’t show up in the other Cavs games.

71-81 ,with 3 min to play in 3rd was last active result, still Cavs made some shots and closed 3rd on +18.

Up by 20 with 10 min to go.
Up by 19 with 5 min

Last 14 min was honorable garbage time, game wasn't close at all.

So, not until the 4th? I didn’t say it was close, I said it was not enough for them to comfortably put us away. And I will take the “garbage time” offense because we did absolutely nothing in that Miami game with the garbage time offense. The subs came in at the 4 minute mark and we were down 18. We only scored 15 off that. I’m taking this offense. Especially since our offense couldn’t do anything last year.

Cavs were up 15 points with 7 minutes left to once Jalen hit the 3 at the 7 minute mark making it 87-102 and then they subbed out most of their starters. But Garland and Allen was still out there until the 5 minute mark. So whatever, I’m looking at the bright side and taking this offense.

[tiderulz]

To me, there's only one course of action.

Start Cory Joseph.

Banchero won't be out long enough for Weltman to splurge his draft capital on a mediocre PG in a seller's market. So I think we can forget that option.

Franz might be sick, but we've seen enough of him as table setter to know it's not his forte. We'd all love for Franz to blossom into a monster in PBs absence, but he's probably not that guy. He can be very dominant within a game, but I don't thing he's ready to do a Harden and "be the system" as Paolo is asked to be.

So we need someone to help work him into his spots and facilitate general offense.

Suggs is really stepping up as a guy to make stuff happen, but not as a field general. Suggs is a SG on any playoff team worth its salt.

Black isn't ready to be that guy and have us compete for the playoffs. But there are flashes and it looks likely he can hold down the bench initiator role, with help from others.

CoJo is no worldbeater. I'm not under any illusions. But he's a competent PG who had a big down year last season. This Orl team needs someone who can get our offense set up and pick options. CoJo is the best we have on the roster to do that. When Paolo comes back, I have no issue in pushing him back to bench-end if he hasn't been amazing.

But right now Our offense is, frankly, OFFENSIVE.

Cory is the definition of end of bench PG. i would rather start Black and let him work through growing pains. We arent expected to win a lot with Paolo out, so roll with it. We either see promise with Black getting more experience or learn what we have with him. It will only help later in the season when we may need more from him. But relying on the 13th person from the bench, not a good strategy in my opinion.

[eyriq]

Cavs beat us across the board. They shot better, rebounded more, turned it over less, and got to the line more frequently.

Some positives though. Suggs led the team in minutes, assisted 33% of made field goals, was the #1 option at 32% usage, and just overall had a terrific game.

AB continues to show elite defense. He's also proving that he's a playmaker and a reliable three point shooter. His dribble is tighter and with his hesi he's able to blow by his man and get to the rim.

TDS balled out. He has to get consistent rotation minutes.

[eyriq]

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[eyriq]

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[zaymon]

I expect changes in the starting lineup. For some reason Mosley is often slow to adjust. Sloting Black as starter makes both our first unit and second unit worse.
I will not be lamenting about this iteration of the team. We are clearly positioned for a big trade in next 1-3 years. KCP doent make much sense as a finishing touch. He makes sense as a replcacemnt or salary filler.

[eyriq]

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