PG Memphis - 1-4

[yannisk]

The first move I would make is trading Portis for an athletic PF/C

actually that is the second move the first one would be firing Horst

then i start with the coaching staff, we pay them all anyway don't we? start with Rivers, fire him and promote one of his assistants, we have plenty of them, continue firing them and promoting the next one till we have a semblance of a team. Then evaluate the roster again

Assistant Coach
Vin Baker
Rex Kalamian
Joe Prunty
David Joerger
Pete Dominguez
Spencer Rivers
Greg Buckner
Darvin Ham
Jack Herum
Jason Love

[old skool]

About 13 months ago, most of the NBA Fandom and almost everyone on this board had the Bucks a shoo in to win the East.

Obviously that did not happen and those same fans ignore their previous miscalculations smuggly blaming everyone in sight for the mess that we all see.

I appreciate the collective frustration but it is hard to take seriously the chest pounding from fans who deemed the Antetokounmpo-Lillard pairing as unstoppable.

Go back and read those posts.

Your tirade against NBA fandom is funny considering NBA “EXPERTS” said and are saying the same things.

My point was that there was a broad consensus that the Antetokounmpo-Lillard combo was going to be great. Now that it is not great, those same people are blaming everyone in sight and calling for the team to be blown up. Acting like they know it all, when they were, so far, way off base about the teaming of Giannis & Dame.

We can't have it both ways. We can't laud Horst in September 2023 for finding a way to get Lillard, and then complain that Horst is a horrible GM today.

I get the frustration and disappointment. The Bucks went all in and it has not worked out. Fans and pundits who criticized the firing of Budenholzer and the trade for Lillard after the Bucks had lost 6 of their last 7 playoff games can feel justified. I just don't recall many people who took those positions.

[Baddy Chuck]

We can't have it both ways. We can't laud Horst in September 2023 for finding a way to get Lillard, and then complain that Horst is a horrible GM today.

Sure you can because a team is much more than two players and if you can't find the personnel on and off the court to make two top 75 players work together you've done a pretty terrible job.

[Ron Swanson]

About 13 months ago, most of the NBA Fandom and almost everyone on this board had the Bucks a shoo in to win the East.

Obviously that did not happen and those same fans ignore their previous miscalculations smuggly blaming everyone in sight for the mess that we all see.

I appreciate the collective frustration but it is hard to take seriously the chest pounding from fans who deemed the Antetokounmpo-Lillard pairing as unstoppable.

Go back and read those posts.

Your tirade against NBA fandom is funny considering NBA “EXPERTS” said and are saying the same things.

My point was that there was a broad consensus that the Antetokounmpo-Lillard combo was going to be great. Now that it is not great, those same people are blaming everyone in sight and calling for the team to be blown up. Acting like they know it all, when they were, so far, way off base about the teaming of Giannis & Dame.

We can't have it both ways. We can't laud Horst in September 2023 for finding a way to get Lillard, and then complain that Horst is a horrible GM today.

I get the frustration and disappointment. The Bucks went all in and it has not worked out. Fans and pundits who criticized the firing of Budenholzer and the trade for Lillard after the Bucks had lost 6 of their last 7 playoff games can feel justified. I just don't recall many people who took those positions.

I mean, sure we can. It's called nuance. Horst still largely built a championship roster during his tenure here and deserves credit for that. He deserves credit for the Dame trade that was pretty universally lauded by everyone, including the big bad national media at the time. And now he's getting rightly shredded for not really putting this team in a position to succeed based on a long, consistent stretch of wasted assets and poor transactions (or lack there of) around those two guys.

[randy84]

Read on Twitter

Like, just......why? And I'd imagine the numbers are even worse after his 5-14 performance last night. We're getting absolutely crushed in the math game because we're running a stone-age NBA offense in the year 2024, and guys are just allowed to freelance out there with no accountability. Please just get a real coach and supporting cast that makes sense around Dame/Giannis before we decide to burn it all to the ground.

We have a "stone-age" offense because our superstar can't hit a 3 or make a free throw so you need specific players around him. You need an athletic center that can play defense and hit 3s to give Giannis room to work on the offensive end and cover up his fading defensive prowess (Brook is way past his prime). You need a PG that can defend and won't initiate offense, because Giannis needs the ball in his hand. You need a bench scorer that can create when Giannis goes out. And you need three other guys that are happy to stand on the perimeter while Giannis spins into 3 defenders. And then maybe you have a contender.

[emunney]

1) I disagree with the premise that Giannis+Dame is the problem, or even a problem. It's not yet optimized, which is frustrating but not grounds for wholesale reevaluation.

2) If it was bad, not sure why liking it then would mean anybody should be prevented from acknowledging it now as a mistake. Even Horst himself can do this. Changing your opinion in the face of new information is not a flaw or unfair. It's sentience in action.

3) If you have big problems with transition D and you can't make shots to save your life, you are going to look terrible. I'm ambivalent about Doc taking responsibility for the transition defense -- it's unusual for him to jump in front of something like this, and commendable, but I also think a big part of it is personnel, which is at least nominally not his department. And, of course, none of it looks as bad with more made shots and fewer transition chances, also not under his control. So I don't know if he's just being generous with his players or if he's misdiagnosing.

[Ron Swanson]

Read on Twitter

Like, just......why? And I'd imagine the numbers are even worse after his 5-14 performance last night. We're getting absolutely crushed in the math game because we're running a stone-age NBA offense in the year 2024, and guys are just allowed to freelance out there with no accountability. Please just get a real coach and supporting cast that makes sense around Dame/Giannis before we decide to burn it all to the ground.

We have a "stone-age" offense because our superstar can't hit a 3 or make a free throw so you need specific players around him. You need an athletic center that can play defense and hit 3s to give Giannis room to work on the offensive end and cover up his fading defensive prowess (Brook is way past his prime). You need a PG that can defend and won't initiate offense, because Giannis needs the ball in his hand. You need a bench scorer that can create when Giannis goes out. And you need three other guys that are happy to stand on the perimeter while Giannis spins into 3 defenders. And then maybe you have a contender.

The idea that you can't build a modern NBA offense around a guy who's one of the greatest ever at manufacturing the most efficient shot in the sport (at the rim dunks and layups) is quite the take. "3 guys standing at the perimeter" is literally what made the offense so lethal for 4-5 seasons under Bud because dude understood that maximizing Giannis isn't exactly rocket science. Having Bobby stand at the perimeter waiting to let it fly is x1000 more useful to the team than having him dribble into a contested jump hook. Maybe we need a coach who can actual tell him where he's most effective?

[emunney]

By the way, the responsibility for the Bucks' problems do not extend outside the borders of the Bucks' organization. What other people say or think or said or thought is totally immaterial.

If I **** up at my job, I don't get to share responsibility with some rando who happened to share my opinion at the time, regardless of how informed that person may or may not have been. They may have been wrong but I'm the one who actually biffed it. It's my job, and I'm supposed to be better at it than a hobbyist.

[randy84]

The idea that you can't build a modern NBA offense around a guy who's one of the greatest ever at manufacturing the most efficient shot in the sport (at the rim dunks and layups) is quite the take. "3 guys standing at the perimeter" is literally what made the offense so lethal for 4-5 seasons under Bud because dude understood that maximizing Giannis isn't exactly rocket science. Having Bobby stand at the perimeter waiting to let it fly is x1000 more useful to the team than having him dribble into a contested jump hook. Maybe we need a coach who can actual tell him where he's most effective?

I'm not sure who said you can't. I just laid out the blueprint. Unfortunately, the Bucks nostalgia for their championship team, had them keeping players longer than they should. Or maybe it was Giannis who was unwilling to part with players that he is comfortable playing with. Either way, they currently don't have the players or the financial flexibility to get the players needed to play Giannis' style of basketball.

Its not a coincidence that the team came out with an article talking about financial flexibility next year. Dame and Giannis figuring it out is the only hope for this year. Otherwise, we all just need to wait until next year and hope Giannis doesn't break down first.